Good run with injury in '09 no accident

[barks4eva]

i'm the flog

Agree 100%

that has to bring it up

would your energies be far better served actually doing something creative, instead of wasting time here on this nonsense?

u are a diamond young fella ... but , young (whish is hard to blane you for ) .... and yr missing a few 'machinations' around the place , that the older guys see clearly

Oh please, give it a rest, as if your the wise old head,

FAIR DINKUM

You once posted that it was YOUR understanding that Thomas would step aside if there was someone else that he thought could do the job better and you actually thought he was good for his word!

Are you really serious?

A guy with 8 kids who was paying himself $500,000 a year would nobly stand aside and..........oh why bother

The height of gullibility, drinker of the poisoned cordial!

the thing is anything Thomas said you took as gospel and you have the hide to accuse HD of being "young" as if that does not make him quick on the uptake.

POT KETTLE BLACK

As for highlighting the spelling errors, yes you assumed incorrectly again, I saw mercedes DIVER, and knowing your spelling is not always what it should be weighed up the pun v. spelling error and thought whatever, whichever, don't care

and chose to reply with the running out of petrol comment,

NO I did not miss it, if the TRUTH be known,

another one of your wrong assumptions and MISunderstandings

but 66 , imo , has compromised himself over a long period of time ....unwittingly, with no malice .... but has become a party to a very poorly thought out decision ...when very cool heads were needed

No he sees a troll, THAT IS ALL and rightly calls him on it!

RF is a goofball idiot who has NFI, knows SFA!

I don't come here as much as I used to because it is so mundane and boring reading this pissant and you as his self appointed moral crusader or however you see yourself....

Just get a life mate!

Seriously!

You're old enough to know better surely!

Personally for the first time ever in the St Kilda Football Clubs history we have a professional football department plus a coach who sets trends, not follows them, IMHO we have the best coach in the AFL,

be nice if we were all united for a change, you know WE ARE ONE and all that, but no thanks to numbnuts and you blindly following his dumbed down drivel, this site is worth steering clear of.

[Milton66]

[stinger]

The decisions to let Ball go and recruit Lovett illustrate the difference between the old GT/Butterss philosophy and the newer one. Under the previous regime, players like Ball (and Riewoldt and Kosi and Dal and Lenny and etc.) were integral to "brand St Kilda": young guns who were meant to go on to become 200 or 300 game one club men.

Now, it would appear, we have moved into a situation in which players are more like tradeable assets. It doesn't matter where they come from or where they go to. We just take the best the market can deliver us on the day.

good post mb ...and very valid comments......ball was simply not valued as he should have been...hence he is no longer with us......would not have happened with the previous regime......i have said before that i like lyon as a coach.....but he has made mistakes...ball and lovett are just two of them.....

[SainterK]

The decisions to let Ball go and recruit Lovett illustrate the difference between the old GT/Butterss philosophy and the newer one. Under the previous regime, players like Ball (and Riewoldt and Kosi and Dal and Lenny and etc.) were integral to "brand St Kilda": young guns who were meant to go on to become 200 or 300 game one club men.

Now, it would appear, we have moved into a situation in which players are more like tradeable assets. It doesn't matter where they come from or where they go to. We just take the best the market can deliver us on the day.

good post mb ...and very valid comments......ball was simply not valued as he should have been...hence he is no longer with us......would not have happened with the previous regime......i have said before that i like lyon as a coach.....but he has made mistakes...ball and lovett are just two of them.....

I am curious stinger, and not being sarcastic at all, but could you define "valued" as I am not sure what you mean.

[asiu]

thanx andy

of course u got the mecedes line ... yep , course ya did


better timing this time though..
so now yr on your toes a bit , and u accentuate bread crumbs left for dilton


go back to being royally purple , depressed and uninterested ,

although , u two look good together , maybe u should pm him , make a friend

i'm not sure if he's got to many others


anyway , back to business

how lucky i was , stumbling along on my quest (sometimes it helps to have rounded shoulders from looking at the ground )

when , low and behold

look what i found




the magic moral compass




see ...too easy , u should get outside more mate

[stinger]

I am curious stinger, and not being sarcastic at all, but could you define "valued" as I am not sure what you mean.

you sure about that???.......im not.....he's a definition of valued from the online free dictionary....

"Worth in usefulness or importance to the possessor; utility or merit."


...i think that fits the bill in this case.....

[saint66au]

Under the previous regime, players like Ball (and Riewoldt and Kosi and Dal and Lenny and etc.) were integral to "brand St Kilda": young guns who were meant to go on to become 200 or 300 game one club men.

Now, it would appear, we have moved into a situation in which players are more like tradeable assets. It doesn't matter where they come from or where they go to. We just take the best the market can deliver us on the day.

...all int he name of winning a flag MB..a pretty laudable idea I think

Maybe RL recognises that in the "brand StK" plyers we have the finest leadership group in the AFL...and backs them to iron out any personality issues with the players he drafts? One of the reasons that I was very happy with the drafting of Andrew Lovett was my faith in our leadership group to turn him around. That they seem to have not been able to is to much more an indictment of AL then a criticism of our leadership group IMO.

I think both regimes "took the best the market had to offer on the day". Perhaps the definition of "best" varied a little..but noone here would know that for certain

Dont forget too. The "previous regime" if thats what you are calling GT..didnt draft Lenny, Roo or Kosi

[Milton66]

How was lunch today? Did you bring your own, or someone else's?

Me's got a few friends... coz me's a winner.

[SainterK]

I am curious stinger, and not being sarcastic at all, but could you define "valued" as I am not sure what you mean.

you sure about that???.......im not.....he's a definition of valued from the online free dictionary....

"Worth in usefulness or importance to the possessor; utility or merit."


...i think that fits the bill in this case.....

Thanks

Valued, well I think he was....his opinion of his own value simply differed from the coach.

MB is incorrect when he said that the RL regime let him go, he left.

[stinger]

[quote="saint66au"]MB..a pretty laudable idea I think

Maybe RL recognises that in the "brand StK" plyers we have the finest leadership group in the AFL...and backs them to iron out any personality issues with the players he drafts? One of the reasons that I was very happy with the drafting of Andrew Lovett was my faith in our leadership group to turn him around. That they seem to have not been able to is to much more an indictment of AL then a criticism of our leadership group IMO.

/quote]


our ancestors had more time to talk to one another and educate their children..and their grandchildren...no tellies. pc's video games in their day.. and they weren't stupid .... created a lot of sayings that have stood the test of time....one...about rotten apples... still rings true today...imhfo......and al is a rotten apple....has form....the saints should never have drafted him.....on the other hand...i believe that the same saying doesn't apply to cousins....he didn't have a record....and i believe he will star for the tigers this year.....ball is a classy footballer, an intelligent man and an excellent role model.....the club has stuffed up..big time.......sure we can move on...but to try and plaster over the cracks is just not facing up to reality...... i hope to flower that they haven't cost us that chance to celebrate on that last saturday in september.....


if pple don't like hearing the truth i really don't give a rats....

[stinger]

I am curious stinger, and not being sarcastic at all, but could you define "valued" as I am not sure what you mean.

you sure about that???.......im not.....he's a definition of valued from the online free dictionary....

"Worth in usefulness or importance to the possessor; utility or merit."


...i think that fits the bill in this case.....

Thanks

Valued, well I think he was....his opinion of his own value simply differed from the coach.

MB is incorrect when he said that the RL regime let him go, he left.

only after they tried to flog him off to other clubs, dropped him..withdrew their offer to him and didn't play him as they should have in the grandfinal......not necessarily in that order i might add....

[saintsRrising]

The decisions to let Ball go and recruit Lovett illustrate the difference between the old GT/Butterss philosophy and the newer one. Under the previous regime, players like Ball (and Riewoldt and Kosi and Dal and Lenny and etc.) were integral to "brand St Kilda": young guns who were meant to go on to become 200 or 300 game one club men.

.

What nonsense and rewriting of history with a complete lack of memory of the black sheep. GT, despite the myth that MB is trying to paint, was not just about 'cleanskins'.

Guerra was taken with known "issues".

Sweeney had some very colourful "issues".

Black had "issues".

GTrain was shall we say a "colorful" character off the field..and was tolerated because he was an exceptional player who unlike Everitt did not "head-butt" the coach on issues.

GT could not handle players with "management" issues and moved them on (and to be fair if the coach is not seeing eye to eye with a player then that is the coaches call). That should not be confused with "bad boys".


Lyon likes players that can fill a role that the team needs.

Ball lost value because he could not deliver the PLAYING role that Lyon demanded. End of story.


And as for players like Ball (and Riewoldt and Kosi and Dal and Lenny and etc.) ...geeze all were what picks with the first dozen in each year??? I think ANY coach would hope tat picks with the first dozen go onto long careers.

Now to be fair to GT he certainly helped to change the "Stkilda Culture" for the better. But it is rubbish to imply that he newver recruited/drafted any black sheep.

[SainterK]

I am curious stinger, and not being sarcastic at all, but could you define "valued" as I am not sure what you mean.

you sure about that???.......im not.....he's a definition of valued from the online free dictionary....

"Worth in usefulness or importance to the possessor; utility or merit."


...i think that fits the bill in this case.....

Thanks

Valued, well I think he was....his opinion of his own value simply differed from the coach.

MB is incorrect when he said that the RL regime let him go, he left.

only after they tried to flog him off to other clubs, dropped him..withdrew their offer to him and didn't play him as they should have in the grandfinal......not necessarily in that order i might add....

He asked to be traded.
Because being dropped is exclusive practice at STKFC?
Withdrew the offer after he asked to be traded.
Your last point is purely speculative, you could not guarantee that more TOG = more impact.

Interesting discussion though....

[stinger]

i actually believe that ball made lyon fell uncomfortable....i could hazard a guess why but i'm not going to on here for obvious reasons......


..if he was such a dead loss...or no loss at all. as some claim...why were players like lenny and roo furious with him.......i don't think that they would feel the same way about x or maguire leaving..or deciding their future lay elsewhere...as x in deed did....

[stinger]

He asked to be traded.
Because being dropped is exclusive practice at STKFC?
Withdrew the offer after he asked to be traded.
Your last point is purely speculative, you could not guarantee that more TOG = more impact.

Interesting discussion though....

no..i'm talking six weeks prior to the finals....

why was he dropped...when others were less effective by far and still retained their place...

who says.??,,,the st kilda football club?...and we believe everything they tell us don't we....?

why not...he was bog in the first half when we were winning .....not played in the second half when we were soundly being beaten in the hard in and under stuff....



am i still pissed off about the grand final??...you better believe it.....

[saint66au]

He asked to be traded.
Because being dropped is exclusive practice at STKFC?
Withdrew the offer after he asked to be traded.
Your last point is purely speculative, you could not guarantee that more TOG = more impact.

Interesting discussion though....

no..i'm talking six weeks prior to the finals....

why was he dropped...when others were less effective by far and still retained their place...IN YOUR HUMBLE OPINION

who says.??,,,the st kilda football club?...and we believe everything they tell us don't we....? WELL THEY KNOW A HELL OF A LOT MORE ABOUT AFL FOOTBALLERS, IN PARTICULAR OUR LIST, THAN YOU OR I

why not...he was bog in the first half when we were winning YA RECKON?? ID PUT GRAM AND HAYES AHEAD OF HIM JUST FROM ST KILDA....not played in the second half when we were soundly being beaten in the hard in and under stuff....



am i still pissed off about the grand final??...you better believe it.....

SURE, BE PISSED OFF AS WE ALL ARE, BUT I HAVENT HEARD ANYONE EVER SAY THAT LUKE BALL WAS GOING TO BE THE DIFFERENCE

[stinger]

SURE, BE PISSED OFF AS WE ALL ARE, BUT I HAVENT HEARD ANYONE EVER SAY THAT LUKE BALL WAS GOING TO BE THE DIFFERENCE

i could say that that's only because you don't listen......, or don't get out much...but good manners dictate that i keep that to myself.....


he was the difference in the geelong game ffs....

....and don't shout ffs...it's bad manners ...on your part...

[joffaboy]

So now some posters are calling Ross lyon a blatant liar regarding the Luke Ball issue.

Lyion categorically stated that Luke Ball WALKED OUT ON ST.KILDA, after being offered a three year deal.

HE WALKED OUT. Thats what Lyon stated in the Mark Robinson interview.

However this is being disregarded and apparently he was MOVED ON by Lyon.

Therefore the posters writing this are calling Lyon a blatant liar.

Think I would believe the coach before these know nothing nuffies

[Thinline]

SURE, BE PISSED OFF AS WE ALL ARE, BUT I HAVENT HEARD ANYONE EVER SAY THAT LUKE BALL WAS GOING TO BE THE DIFFERENCE

i could say that that's only because you don't listen......, or don't get out much...but good manners dictate that i keep that to myself.....


he was the difference in the geelong game ffs....

....and don't shout ffs...it's bad manners ...on your part...

Ball, for once in far to long, was extremely effective when he was on the ground on GF day.

But THE difference?

Reckon Schneider, Milne, Mini et al missing when they should not have was probably THE telling factor all said and done.

[meher baba]

The decisions to let Ball go and recruit Lovett illustrate the difference between the old GT/Butterss philosophy and the newer one. Under the previous regime, players like Ball (and Riewoldt and Kosi and Dal and Lenny and etc.) were integral to "brand St Kilda": young guns who were meant to go on to become 200 or 300 game one club men.

.

What nonsense and rewriting of history with a complete lack of memory of the black sheep. GT, despite the myth that MB is trying to paint, was not just about 'cleanskins'.

Guerra was taken with known "issues".

Sweeney had some very colourful "issues".

Black had "issues".

GTrain was shall we say a "colorful" character off the field..and was tolerated because he was an exceptional player who unlike Everitt did not "head-butt" the coach on issues.

GT could not handle players with "management" issues and moved them on (and to be fair if the coach is not seeing eye to eye with a player then that is the coaches call). That should not be confused with "bad boys".

Lyon likes players that can fill a role that the team needs.

Ball lost value because he could not deliver the PLAYING role that Lyon demanded. End of story.

And as for players like Ball (and Riewoldt and Kosi and Dal and Lenny and etc.) ...geeze all were what picks with the first dozen in each year??? I think ANY coach would hope tat picks with the first dozen go onto long careers.

Now to be fair to GT he certainly helped to change the "Stkilda Culture" for the better. But it is rubbish to imply that he newver recruited/drafted any black sheep.

Of course he recruited black sheep and he also invested a lot of time in trying to reform them. If he had been coach when Lovett came to the club, he would have had him around for endless family barbies and probably taken him to the priest for confession FFS. Don't think I'm trying to praise GT for this stuff: I find it a bit nauseating. But it's what he did and, in some cases, it worked. And whatever strategies the club had in place for managing Lovett (if any), they clearly didn't work and he ended up out on the prowl with a bunch of other AFL players (including at least one from our club) with the appalling results that followed.

But I don't even blame the club for that. I think, once they decided to trade our first round pick, Lovett was an OK gamble: he's an extremely talented footballer. My problem is more with the whole incident as symptomatic of a growing obsession with trading players like commodities: epitomized by Drain's curious comment that (and I paraphrase slightly) they could take a punt on Lovett because they were "hedged" on Walsh!!

BTW, I know you have this obsessive thing about GT, but keep it real: he was excellent at handling problem players. Everitt went way beyond being your standard sort of "problem player": he was a threat to team harmony and unity. It's not a fair example. Think instead of Black, G Train, Milne, Joey, Peckett, etc: GT got a lot out of these guys whereas others might have simply given up.

[meher baba]

So now some posters are calling Ross lyon a blatant liar regarding the Luke Ball issue.

Lyion categorically stated that Luke Ball WALKED OUT ON ST.KILDA, after being offered a three year deal.

HE WALKED OUT. Thats what Lyon stated in the Mark Robinson interview.

However this is being disregarded and apparently he was MOVED ON by Lyon.

Therefore the posters writing this are calling Lyon a blatant liar.

Think I would believe the coach before these know nothing nuffies

Too black and white JB. Haven't you ever "voluntarily" walked out on a job where you were made so uncomfortable that you felt you had no choice but to go. I have, and my employer told the media (i was a very minor sort of celebrity in a specialized field) that I chose to go. But I didn't really.

[Milton66]

Too many Luke Ball haters around here.

so a player left... a player didn't get along with the coach.

Hardly earth shattering.

[saint66au]

SURE, BE PISSED OFF AS WE ALL ARE, BUT I HAVENT HEARD ANYONE EVER SAY THAT LUKE BALL WAS GOING TO BE THE DIFFERENCE

i could say that that's only because you don't listen......, or don't get out much...but good manners dictate that i keep that to myself.....Yes probably would have been better to keep it to yourself....see good manners could dictate that I dont mention that you're not that great at seeing opposing viewpoints when you get a bee in your bonnet about something

he was the difference in the geelong game ffs....So say you, I disagree, we were both at the game, guess we analysed it differently..cest la vie, viva le difference

....and don't shout ffs...it's bad manners ...on your part...

SOR..sorry

[saintsRrising]

BTW, I know you have this obsessive thing about GT, but keep it real: he was excellent at handling problem players. Everitt went way beyond being your standard sort of "problem player": he was a threat to team harmony and unity. It's not a fair example. Think instead of Black, G Train, Milne, Joey, Peckett, etc: GT got a lot out of these guys whereas others might have simply given up.

Excellent??? Surely you jest????

Since when was Joey a "problem" player??? Better player now.

Milne. GT wanted to trade him. Better player now.
Everit traded
Hall traded
Jones retired early..but yes had some great years under GT.

Frankie??? What did GT do...Frankie was established well before GT with his first game in 92!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beetham...early draft pick that walked out...

Guerra. Blitzed briefly before falling out of favour and being exited out. Has thrived since at the Hawks.

Stephie Lawrence...well a head-case and nutter there. Any coach probably would have struggled.

However you stated:

" he was excellent at handling problem players" Excellent??? Such a term implies BETTER than most. I hardly see that at all as under GT most of the "problem" players left.

Who are all these problem players that GT turned around? From what I can see the vast majority left or rather were exited out. Handling????

[SainterK]

He asked to be traded.
Because being dropped is exclusive practice at STKFC?
Withdrew the offer after he asked to be traded.
Your last point is purely speculative, you could not guarantee that more TOG = more impact.

Interesting discussion though....

no..i'm talking six weeks prior to the finals....

why was he dropped...when others were less effective by far and still retained their place...

who says.??,,,the st kilda football club?...and we believe everything they tell us don't we....?

why not...he was bog in the first half when we were winning .....not played in the second half when we were soundly being beaten in the hard in and under stuff....



am i still pissed off about the grand final??...you better believe it.....

Not sure what your saying....was the contract offered earlier in the season taken off the table in August?

He had formed bad habits, and it was the kick up the bum he needed. His words and not mine, unless you want to tell me that this highly intelligent individual and role model, fed us empty words?

Ross Lyon, and the club collectively in a written statement.

He was very effective on the ground, he is a very good burst player, but I will not agree that he had the ability to keep it up for another half, purely because that is just completely a what if.

I am sad about it, who isn't....