Good run with injury in '09 no accident

[asiu]

I reckon we are the mice in his little treadmill

that must mean i'm the rat with the oil can then








is mmmice coming out to play ?

[HarveysDeciple]

But a couple of posters, rodgerfox being one, do go the other way and are criticial of Lyon almost solely in response to the GT bashing IMO.

c'mon hd



fox includes (consistently*) examples of irony involving the old words used about gt , and the new old words used about lyon

other comments about lyon are separatly inspired

* and good on him



theres no one else

who ?






and you mod people let the mob go hard at him as well ....thats whats embarrasing ....not what he writes

and more than one of your mob by the looks of it now

imo


which disapoints me a bit

x

You are of course entitled to your opinion gaz but the more I read Rodg's posts..the more I think he puts getting up peoples noses ahead of actually advancing any discussion meaningfully.

Forever answering questions with questions, only ever posting in threads concerning coaching...he's clever and subtle at times..but I think he posts to get a reaction rather than offering something that's genuinely his opinion.

I reckon we are the mice in his little treadmill

Just my opinion of course

well said.

[asiu]

well said.

yep , but not a good look







neithers looking compromised ....hard to have an ongoing 'set' against fox and gramps ...and then moderate

possibly fox is lucky he doesnt post in the general forum

but at least the forum has shed forever the myth of 'the lyon haters' ...in fact not even one lyon hater

unless of course theres someone wanting to step up to the plate ... and make forum fame

[markp]

the more I read Rodg's posts..the more I think he puts getting up peoples noses ahead of actually advancing any discussion meaningfully.

Forever answering questions with questions, only ever posting in threads concerning coaching...he's clever and subtle at times..but I think he posts to get a reaction rather than offering something that's genuinely his opinion.

Now, look up 'troll' in the dictionary....

[meher baba]

well said.

yep , but not a good look







neithers looking compromised ....hard to have an ongoing 'set' against fox and gramps ...and then moderate

possibly fox is lucky he doesnt post in the general forum

but at least the forum has shed forever the myth of 'the lyon haters' ...in fact not even one lyon hater

unless of course theres someone wanting to step up to the plate ... and make forum fame

I am a self-confessed former Lyon hater (well, at least I once thought - based on the style of footy we were playing - that he was incompetent: and I also thought, and still think, that his speaking style interviews is a bit of a cross between Barney the Dinosaur and the Sandman).

However, during the second half of the 2008 season he convinced me that he was a really good coach. And then the GF performance in 2009 was superb: I know I'm not allowed by others on here to think that the losing coach could "outcoach" his opponent, but I reckon Lyon gave old blubberlips a coaching lesson for 7/8 of the game until our team ran out of puff at the final hurdle (and then paid for the missed chances earlier on).

But you are right: apart from some of the nasty stuff I wrote almost 2 years ago, there has been a distinct lack of "Lyon hate" on this forum. rodgerfox is not a "Lyon-hater": he just has a bit of a twisted view of things. I don't recall him ever posting anything particularly nasty about Lyon: or, indeed, anything particularly positive about GT.

But there has been endless and continuing attacks on GT: the way he coached, his supposedly malign influence on the football and conditioning areas, the way he talks, his supposed obsession with money, his recruiting decisions (if they were actually his), etc, etc, etc. And it just goes on and on: particularly from our old mate saintsRrising and our newer mate Milton66, as well as your particular mate B4E (but he's in the nature of a "living treasure" on this forum, so we can't mind what he says). Oh, and JB: but I like JB.

I know that many on here (including, it would seem, the mods) can't see that it is only the small cabal of "GT-haters" who keep dragging the forum back into the murky waters of the past.

Even though I have said many times that I am happy to respond to criticisms of GT until the cows come home (or even until the 50 page point is passed). But even I'm starting to tire of it all a bit.

Could we perhaps have a thread about Stan Alves and whether or not he should have been sacked in 1998? Just to break the monotony.

[joffaboy]

But there has been endless and continuing attacks on GT: the way he coached, his supposedly malign influence on the football and conditioning areas, the way he talks, his supposed obsession with money, his recruiting decisions (if they were actually his), etc, etc, etc. And it just goes on and on: particularly from our old mate saintsRrising and our newer mate Milton66, as well as your particular mate B4E (but he's in the nature of a "living treasure" on this forum, so we can't mind what he says). Oh, and JB: but I like JB.

.

Happy for you to label me a GT hater if that suits you - however you are new to the forum and perhaps my vigorous defences of Gt when he was coach may not have been viewed by you.

I call it as I see it. And if that is critisism of an ex coach or current coach, I will do so.

This blanket labelling of Lyon haters/GT haters is boring and incorrect. GT polarised supporters when he was coach, and still does. He does not require staunch defence but there are many on here who seem to think it is their duty to do so.

Likewise the same with the current coach.

However this thread was about list management and injuries. It i plain that the current regime is better at it than the GT dominated regime. If that make me a GT hater in your eyes, so be it.

Still it seems like labelling for labelling sake, and agenda driven.

[markp]

Could we perhaps have a thread about Stan Alves and whether or not he should have been sacked in 1998? Just to break the monotony.

It has potential... did he owe anyone money?

[Milton66]

particularly from our old mate saintsRrising and our newer mate Milton66, as well as your particular mate B4E (but he's in the nature of a "living treasure" on this forum, so we can't mind what he says). Oh, and JB: but I like JB.

Aw poor old Babbalot.

refering to RL as Barney the dinosaur is soooooooooooo mature. Isn't it?

[stinger]

mb quote...."Could we perhaps have a thread about Stan Alves and whether or not he should have been sacked in 1998? Just to break the monotony."



...stan seemed to go backwards all of a sudden......bit like maclaren did on the staircase, eh, mb.....good to see you still posting.....the bed bugs don't actually bite real hard...more annoying than actually hurtful......anyway...i too like ross lyon...think he is a good coach...f***ed up in the grandfinal...but hey...who's perfect......last person that was got nailed to a cross(could say a bit here, but on second thoughts, better not)..

...also think that one day pple can discuss thomas without all the crap...and recognise that he has played a significant part in getting us to where we are today.....


anyway...it's a beautiful day...got better things to do than waste my time around here.... ciao

[Milton66]

But there has been endless and continuing attacks on GT: the way he coached, his supposedly malign influence on the football and conditioning areas, the way he talks, his supposed obsession with money, his recruiting decisions (if they were actually his), etc, etc, etc. And it just goes on and on: particularly from our old mate saintsRrising and our newer mate Milton66, as well as your particular mate B4E (but he's in the nature of a "living treasure" on this forum, so we can't mind what he says). Oh, and JB: but I like JB.

.

Happy for you to label me a GT hater if that suits you - however you are new to the forum and perhaps my vigorous defences of Gt when he was coach may not have been viewed by you.

I call it as I see it. And if that is critisism of an ex coach or current coach, I will do so.

This blanket labelling of Lyon haters/GT haters is boring and incorrect. GT polarised supporters when he was coach, and still does. He does not require staunch defence but there are many on here who seem to think it is their duty to do so.

Likewise the same with the current coach.

However this thread was about list management and injuries. It i plain that the current regime is better at it than the GT dominated regime. If that make me a GT hater in your eyes, so be it.

Still it seems like labelling for labelling sake, and agenda driven.

And I might add that you were quite scathing of LYon regarding the Lovett stuff up.

FWIW.

[joffaboy]

But there has been endless and continuing attacks on GT: the way he coached, his supposedly malign influence on the football and conditioning areas, the way he talks, his supposed obsession with money, his recruiting decisions (if they were actually his), etc, etc, etc. And it just goes on and on: particularly from our old mate saintsRrising and our newer mate Milton66, as well as your particular mate B4E (but he's in the nature of a "living treasure" on this forum, so we can't mind what he says). Oh, and JB: but I like JB.

.

Happy for you to label me a GT hater if that suits you - however you are new to the forum and perhaps my vigorous defences of Gt when he was coach may not have been viewed by you.

I call it as I see it. And if that is critisism of an ex coach or current coach, I will do so.

This blanket labelling of Lyon haters/GT haters is boring and incorrect. GT polarised supporters when he was coach, and still does. He does not require staunch defence but there are many on here who seem to think it is their duty to do so.

Likewise the same with the current coach.

However this thread was about list management and injuries. It i plain that the current regime is better at it than the GT dominated regime. If that make me a GT hater in your eyes, so be it.

Still it seems like labelling for labelling sake, and agenda driven.

And I might add that you were quite scathing of LYon regarding the Lovett stuff up.

FWIW.

Well thats confusing - I must be a Lyon hater as well

[meher baba]

But there has been endless and continuing attacks on GT: the way he coached, his supposedly malign influence on the football and conditioning areas, the way he talks, his supposed obsession with money, his recruiting decisions (if they were actually his), etc, etc, etc. And it just goes on and on: particularly from our old mate saintsRrising and our newer mate Milton66, as well as your particular mate B4E (but he's in the nature of a "living treasure" on this forum, so we can't mind what he says). Oh, and JB: but I like JB.

.

Happy for you to label me a GT hater if that suits you - however you are new to the forum and perhaps my vigorous defences of Gt when he was coach may not have been viewed by you.

I call it as I see it. And if that is critisism of an ex coach or current coach, I will do so.

This blanket labelling of Lyon haters/GT haters is boring and incorrect. GT polarised supporters when he was coach, and still does. He does not require staunch defence but there are many on here who seem to think it is their duty to do so.

Likewise the same with the current coach.

However this thread was about list management and injuries. It i plain that the current regime is better at it than the GT dominated regime. If that make me a GT hater in your eyes, so be it.

Still it seems like labelling for labelling sake, and agenda driven.

I did say I liked you. And that wasn't agenda driven (we wouldn't want to make SEN jealous, would we?)

[SENsei]

Haven't read the whole thread, and won't, but here is my two bob's worth.....

I have been close in some respects over the years to both GT and RL....more GT truth be told over a longer period of time.

GT = hard task master, demanding perfection, wanted accountability in both staff and player, wanted answers when things went wrong and wanted someone to pay the price when that did go wrong. Has a personality that is strong and arrogant, and that rubs people up the wrong way. ie. Waldron, Daniher, Chris Jones, Butterss, Kellett

But he did a job for the time. He got us on the right track at a time when we were floundering big time. The argument that we could've gone further is valid and there are some bit points that are true regarding injury management and recruiting.

RL - different kettle of fish but just as strong a personality. Able to wipe the slate clean after a dispute which GT was not. GT put people in the dog house. RL is more animated on match day, but probably more clinical and astute.

I also hated our style when RL first came aboard, but he won me over pretty quickly.

And that's my take.

[meher baba]

particularly from our old mate saintsRrising and our newer mate Milton66, as well as your particular mate B4E (but he's in the nature of a "living treasure" on this forum, so we can't mind what he says). Oh, and JB: but I like JB.

Aw poor old Babbalot.

refering to RL as Barney the dinosaur is soooooooooooo mature. Isn't it?

John 8:7 (speaking in the biblical sense).

[stinger]

Haven't read the whole thread, and won't, but here is my two bob's worth.....

I have been close in some respects over the years to both GT and RL....more GT truth be told over a longer period of time.


I also hated our style when RL first came aboard, but he won me over pretty quickly.

And that's my take.

good post sen...thanks for sharing with us....

[Milton66]

But there has been endless and continuing attacks on GT: the way he coached, his supposedly malign influence on the football and conditioning areas, the way he talks, his supposed obsession with money, his recruiting decisions (if they were actually his), etc, etc, etc. And it just goes on and on: particularly from our old mate saintsRrising and our newer mate Milton66, as well as your particular mate B4E (but he's in the nature of a "living treasure" on this forum, so we can't mind what he says). Oh, and JB: but I like JB.

.

Happy for you to label me a GT hater if that suits you - however you are new to the forum and perhaps my vigorous defences of Gt when he was coach may not have been viewed by you.

I call it as I see it. And if that is critisism of an ex coach or current coach, I will do so.

This blanket labelling of Lyon haters/GT haters is boring and incorrect. GT polarised supporters when he was coach, and still does. He does not require staunch defence but there are many on here who seem to think it is their duty to do so.

Likewise the same with the current coach.

However this thread was about list management and injuries. It i plain that the current regime is better at it than the GT dominated regime. If that make me a GT hater in your eyes, so be it.

Still it seems like labelling for labelling sake, and agenda driven.

And I might add that you were quite scathing of LYon regarding the Lovett stuff up.

FWIW.

Well thats confusing - I must be a Lyon hater as well

Well, this HAS become an amusing thread...

People feigning indignation at how some people beat up on Rodgerfox, and yet they themselves have forma "horde".

Obviously 2 wrongs make a right in forumland.

Convenience of agendas make strange bedfellows.

Really amusing.

[Milton66]

particularly from our old mate saintsRrising and our newer mate Milton66, as well as your particular mate B4E (but he's in the nature of a "living treasure" on this forum, so we can't mind what he says). Oh, and JB: but I like JB.

Aw poor old Babbalot.

refering to RL as Barney the dinosaur is soooooooooooo mature. Isn't it?

John 8:7 (speaking in the biblical sense).

I'll see your and raise you another

[Milton66]

Haven't read the whole thread, and won't, but here is my two bob's worth.....

I have been close in some respects over the years to both GT and RL....more GT truth be told over a longer period of time.

GT = hard task master, demanding perfection, wanted accountability in both staff and player, wanted answers when things went wrong and wanted someone to pay the price when that did go wrong. Has a personality that is strong and arrogant, and that rubs people up the wrong way. ie. Waldron, Daniher, Chris Jones, Butterss, Kellett

But he did a job for the time. He got us on the right track at a time when we were floundering big time. The argument that we could've gone further is valid and there are some bit points that are true regarding injury management and recruiting.

RL - different kettle of fish but just as strong a personality. Able to wipe the slate clean after a dispute which GT was not. GT put people in the dog house. RL is more animated on match day, but probably more clinical and astute.

I also hated our style when RL first came aboard, but he won me over pretty quickly.

And that's my take.

That's a fair assesment I'd imagine.

[White Winmar]

Perhaps we could devote a single thread exclusively to GT/RL, GT vs. RL bashing and let everyone take their frustrations out on it. Let it run to hundreds of pages. Never lock it. At least when you post something on that proposed thread, you'll know exactly what your in for. It would leave all other threads for their intended purposes and prevent "hijacking". BTW, I still think our great run with injury in 2009 was no accident, just in case anyone still cares.

[stinger]

Perhaps we could devote a single thread exclusively to GT/RL, GT vs. RL bashing and let everyone take their frustrations out on it. Let it run to hundreds of pages. Never lock it. At least when you post something on that proposed thread, you'll know exactly what your in for. It would leave all other threads for their intended purposes and prevent "hijacking". BTW, I still think our great run with injury in 2009 was no accident, just in case anyone still cares.

am i right in saying that we have lost our strengh and conditioning guy....without as much as a small peep out of this forum.....think he went to the roos actually...

[HarveysDeciple]

well said.

yep , but not a good look







neithers looking compromised ....hard to have an ongoing 'set' against fox and gramps ...and then moderate

possibly fox is lucky he doesnt post in the general forum

but at least the forum has shed forever the myth of 'the lyon haters' ...in fact not even one lyon hater

unless of course theres someone wanting to step up to the plate ... and make forum fame

don't dance around it. Am I a biased moderator?

We are calling it as it is. If someone is a trouble maker, they are a trouble maker.

[borderbarry]

I always enjoy reading Meher Baba's stuff.

A coach that I thought had a lot of potential for us was Graham Gellie. He did not have a lot to work with at that time though.

[asiu]

i certainly wasnt ...dancing around it

i'm the flog that has to bring it up , and state the obvious



u guys are missing the point , (not the first one either , but thats another story)


as mods , u and 66 are supported by the troops ...

....theres countless incidences where 'the troops' have come to your aid in subtle ways

u are a diamond young fella ... but , young (whish is hard to blane you for ) .... and yr missing a few 'machinations' around the place , that the older guys see clearly

66 ... well **** me ....the work he puts in is 'way beyond the call of duty '
like bratski and like mm and devilsaint and all the others with their stuff ....the ones who take on responsibility for something , the true deadset legends of ss

but 66 , imo , has compromised himself over a long period of time ....unwittingly, with no malice .... but has become a party to a very poorly thought out decision ...when very cool heads were needed


u guys would have lost control of this place a long time ago except for the hard work and subtle support of a few


thats imo , of course





edit

awee sh!t ...i missed this ...Am I a biased moderator? i read it as ....i am a biased moderator

and my thought was ...... well, i dont think so

So NO , not imo


nor am i baggn 66 , just pointing something out , putting it on the table so to speak

[meher baba]

Haven't read the whole thread, and won't, but here is my two bob's worth.....

I have been close in some respects over the years to both GT and RL....more GT truth be told over a longer period of time.

GT = hard task master, demanding perfection, wanted accountability in both staff and player, wanted answers when things went wrong and wanted someone to pay the price when that did go wrong. Has a personality that is strong and arrogant, and that rubs people up the wrong way. ie. Waldron, Daniher, Chris Jones, Butterss, Kellett

But he did a job for the time. He got us on the right track at a time when we were floundering big time. The argument that we could've gone further is valid and there are some bit points that are true regarding injury management and recruiting.

RL - different kettle of fish but just as strong a personality. Able to wipe the slate clean after a dispute which GT was not. GT put people in the dog house. RL is more animated on match day, but probably more clinical and astute.

I also hated our style when RL first came aboard, but he won me over pretty quickly.

And that's my take.

Good post. From my observation, I would add that GT (and Butterss, while they were of a like mind) seem to have a very clear goal of lifting St Kilda up to the same level as Essendon, Carlton and Collingwood in terms of public profile, long term success, etc. I don't think GT ever deviated from that goal.

When you are trying to achieve such a major transformation in an organisation's culture/standards/aspirations/etc. you are going to have to be pretty tough, impatient, perfectionist, etc.

The great thing about the GT/Butterss/Waldron regime when they were really cooking in 2002-04 was that they totally got the need for the club to

(a) transform its image from amateurish party boys into a ruthless, professional unit and

(b) to build a really strong supporter base in the southern/bayside suburbs.

All the hard work done in these two areas will pay dividends in the long term.

I sometimes worry that the philosophy under Westaway, Nettlefold, Drain nd Lyon is a little less ambitious: eg, simply to win a flag or two for the supporters while our window is open.

I appreciate that many long suffering fans on here would be happy to win a flag in the next couple of years and bugger the longer term. But, in an evolving and expanding AFL, we might need to do a bit more than win a flag or two to survive beyond the 10-20 year forward horizon.

The decisions to let Ball go and recruit Lovett illustrate the difference between the old GT/Butterss philosophy and the newer one. Under the previous regime, players like Ball (and Riewoldt and Kosi and Dal and Lenny and etc.) were integral to "brand St Kilda": young guns who were meant to go on to become 200 or 300 game one club men.

Now, it would appear, we have moved into a situation in which players are more like tradeable assets. It doesn't matter where they come from or where they go to. We just take the best the market can deliver us on the day.

It's not intrinsically a bad approach, but perhaps the club would have benefited more in the long run from just a few more years of "building" a la GT and Butterss 2002-04. However, once the two fell out, it was never going to happen that way.

[borderbarry]

Who are the Mods for this Forum?