Good run with injury in '09 no accident

[Milton66]

So was our injury run in 09 an accident or a result of good management?

[rodgerfox]

So was our injury run in 09 an accident or a result of good management?

I'd say both.

[Milton66]

So was our injury run in 09 an accident or a result of good management?

I'd say both.

I tend to agree that Sydney's "stability" in 05 was a major factor and that we were robbed that stability.

I also agree that Roos was the master at underselling his team. The more he talked them down, the more dengerous they were.

It's a myth that maybe to many Saints followers swallowed, and thought that we'd be a cert to beat them in the prelim.

Still if we were good enough to beat them for 3 quarters, why not the last.

Fitness? Out coached? Complacency on our part?

A different question I know, but one that still haunts me somewhat, because I also bought into the no-name myth that was the Swans of 05.

BTw, I also reckon that Sydney did tweak it's game plan in the 2nd half of the season and introduced some subtle "attacking" changes.

[rodgerfox]

Still if we were good enough to beat them for 3 quarters, why not the last.

Fitness? Out coached? Complacency on our part?

A different question I know, but one that still haunts me somewhat, because I also bought into the no-name myth that was the Swans of 05.

I didn't.

Walking across the bridge to the G that night for me was like walking to the gallows.

I just could not see how a team so decimated would win a prelim final. It just doesn't happen - never has in the history of the sport.

BTw, I also reckon that Sydney did tweak it's game plan in the 2nd half of the season and introduced some subtle "attacking" changes.

I believe the changes were a result of them being able to play the way Roos wanted them to, because they had a fit and available list.

Probably quite similar to Lyon not being able to get out of his own daylight for the first year and a bit when he didn't have a decent list to pick from.
He's no different to any other coach in this regards. In all seriousness, Thomas was probably the best coach I've seen (along with Mark Williams to a point) at maintaining a competitive team when decimated by injury.

His record proves.

Good, experienced players can stick to game plans under pressure. Young kids can't - well not always.


I think we played on confidence, and passion in the first 3 quarters against Sydney that night. In the end, the team with the better, fitter and more capable list on the park won.

I was, and still am quite amazed and proud that we were in the game for as long as we were.

[Milton66]

FAir enough.

[joffaboy]

Did we make the Grand Final in 2005?

No.

Therefore we had no chance of winning the flag because we did not play off in the Grand Final.

Did we make the Grand Final in 2009?

Yes.

Therefore we had a chance of winning the flag because we played in the only game where you have the opportunity and possibility of winning the flag.

All this talk about 04 and 05 is so much garbage.

But I have to congratulate RF flogging this dead horse and still fighting after he has been so completely out manevoured and cornered in this argument.

[asiu]

amazed and proud that we were in the game for as long as we were

.SAME

[rodgerfox]

Did we make the Grand Final in 2005?

No.

Therefore we had no chance of winning the flag because we did not play off in the Grand Final.

Did we make the Grand Final in 2009?

Yes.

Therefore we had a chance of winning the flag because we played in the only game where you have the opportunity and possibility of winning the flag.

All this talk about 04 and 05 is so much garbage.

But I have to congratulate RF flogging this dead horse and still fighting after he has been so completely out manevoured and cornered in this argument.

Argument?

It's a hypothetical question.

I know you're pretty keen on the 'fights' and aggressive posting and the concept of 'winning' when discussing a topic or issue, but sadly on this one Joffaboy you can't win.

It's a hypothetical question that has been posed. There is no right or wrong.


However there are some other unanswered questions in this thread which you seem to miss.

I'd be interested in your answers because what you're brought to the table so far in the thread is a confusing me.

[SydneySainter]

So was our injury run in 09 an accident or a result of good management?

I'd say both.

I tend to agree that Sydney's "stability" in 05 was a major factor and that we were robbed that stability.

I also agree that Roos was the master at underselling his team. The more he talked them down, the more dengerous they were.

It's a myth that maybe to many Saints followers swallowed, and thought that we'd be a cert to beat them in the prelim.

Still if we were good enough to beat them for 3 quarters, why not the last.

Fitness? Out coached? Complacency on our part?

A different question I know, but one that still haunts me somewhat, because I also bought into the no-name myth that was the Swans of 05.

BTw, I also reckon that Sydney did tweak it's game plan in the 2nd half of the season and introduced some subtle "attacking" changes.

Which is why the Thomas legacy can be debated until the cows come home. At the end of the day, he will always get the benefit of the doubt.

[rodgerfox]

Which is why the Thomas legacy can be debated until the cows come home. At the end of the day, he will always get the benefit of the doubt.

?

Ya reckon??

[Moods]

[
Walking across the bridge to the G that night for me was like walking to the gallows.

I just could not see how a team so decimated would win a prelim final. It just doesn't happen - never has in the history of the sport.

You didn't bother to take into account Sydney's terrible performance the week before on it's home ground against a team poss as injury depleted, maybe even more injury depleted than our own?

We had a week off. We were missing Kosi (big loss considering his form that year) but apart from this none of our exclusions were all that massive. Hamill we had done without most of the year. Fisher had yet to make a name for himself. Goose and Maxy were underdone with recent injuries but both still played. The core of our team was basically still there.

Brisbane in 03 were the walking wounded going into an even bigger game than a prelim. I recall after the game that it was revealed that they basically started the game with 17 fit players. Yet they won convincingly. Never in the history of the game you say???

To say you felt you were walking to the gallows on prelm night is a touch over the top I reckon. We were a great chance against a team we did well against in Melbourne who had played poorly the week before and 'escaped' b/c of the cats massive injury list incurred during the game. For mine it felt like we played average for 4 quarters in that game, and it was only in the last that we were really punished.

Not too dis similar to the prelim this year, yet we had the defensive mechanisms in place/drilled into us to ensure that a team couldn't kick 6 unanswered goals against us in the last quarter in 20 minutes. That, to me is the big difference in the Thomas/Lyon eras.

[rodgerfox]

Brisbane in 03 were the walking wounded going into an even bigger game than a prelim. I recall after the game that it was revealed that they basically started the game with 17 fit players. Yet they won convincingly. Never in the history of the game you say???

Please read what I write before responding in future.

[joffaboy]

Argument?

It's a hypothetical question.

Wasn't yesterday

It's a hypothetical question that has been posed. There is no right or wrong.

Wasn't yesterday

However there are some other unanswered questions in this thread which you seem to miss.

lol - like your question that injuries "cost" the Saints a flag in '05

Proven beyond doubt that it was never a possibility.

Not a hypothetical - a fact.

I'd be interested in your answers because what you're brought to the table so far in the thread is a confusing me.

Yes - I can see all through this thread you are very confused.

You dont seem to understand that the only way a team can win a flag is by participating in a Grand Final.

It is black and white, but you unsuccessfully tried to grey the debate with semantics about chances and no team has a chance of winning the flag and other incomprehensible foolishness.

Facts are. We never were "cost" a flag through injury in '05, because, due to not participating in the only game you are ever capable of winning a flag in - The Grand Final - it was literally impossible to win a flag at that time.

You are very very confused, as you say. Please understand this simple concept before trying again.

[rodgerfox]

Not too dis similar to the prelim this year, yet we had the defensive mechanisms in place/drilled into us to ensure that a team couldn't kick 6 unanswered goals against us in the last quarter in 20 minutes. That, to me is the big difference in the Thomas/Lyon eras.

Although clearly there is a mindset difference between a coach who coached in the AFL 3 years ago in Thomas, and one who is coaching now in terms of defensive mindset, I still maintain the biggest difference between what happened then and what happened now, is the fact that then we had 6-8 of our starting 18 not on the ground, and now we had everyone out there.

Also, another difference is that Dal, Roo, Ball, BJ and co. were 3 years older, more mature and more experience in pressure situations.

[rodgerfox]

Argument?

It's a hypothetical question.

Wasn't yesterday

It's a hypothetical question that has been posed. There is no right or wrong.

Wasn't yesterday

However there are some other unanswered questions in this thread which you seem to miss.

lol - like your question that injuries "cost" the Saints a flag in '05

Proven beyond doubt that it was never a possibility.

Not a hypothetical - a fact.

I'd be interested in your answers because what you're brought to the table so far in the thread is a confusing me.

Yes - I can see all through this thread you are very confused.

You dont seem to understand that the only way a team can win a flag is by participating in a Grand Final.

It is black and white, but you unsuccessfully tried to grey the debate with semantics about chances and no team has a chance of winning the flag and other incomprehensible foolishness.

Facts are. We never were "cost" a flag through injury in '05, because, due to not participating in the only game you are ever capable of winning a flag in - The Grand Final - it was literally impossible to win a flag at that time.

You are very very confused, as you say. Please understand this simple concept before trying again.

In my opinion, we would have won the prelim in 05 then won the GF in 05 had we not had massive injuries in 05.


Sorry, but no matter how many smiley faces or derogatory remarks you make, that won't change.


Hypothetically, had we not had the injury list we had on 05, I believe we would have beaten Sydney and then beaten the West Coast in the GF.

Therefore, I believe injuries cost us a flag.


Seriously, I'm really unsure why this is so hard to follow for you??


I've been saying the same thing for 4 years, let alone since yesterday!!


Now, finally the discussion has come back to the footy and not nasty and personal bickering Joffaboy. I know you don't really enjoy footy discussions and prefer the 'winning' and 'cornering' of people as you put it, so if you don't want to partake in this one please stay out of it.

Thanks.

[matrix]

can anyone else kinda see both points and is just sitting back watching and wondering?

[Milton66]

Goose and Max were underdone?

If so, why were they selected?

That should be worth an extra page or so.

[Moods]

Brisbane in 03 were the walking wounded going into an even bigger game than a prelim. I recall after the game that it was revealed that they basically started the game with 17 fit players. Yet they won convincingly. Never in the history of the game you say???

Please read what I write before responding in future.

I did read what you wrote - and then I responded with an opinion. That's how it works isn't it?

You said a team decimated by injury has never won a prelim final before. I claim that the lions were decimated by injury (many of their players needled up and didn't perform, ie Lappin) yet still won. Sorry I had to spell it out.

[joffaboy]

Brisbane in 03 were the walking wounded going into an even bigger game than a prelim. I recall after the game that it was revealed that they basically started the game with 17 fit players. Yet they won convincingly. Never in the history of the game you say???

Please read what I write before responding in future.

I did read what you wrote - and then I responded with an opinion. That's how it works isn't it?

You said a team decimated by injury has never won a prelim final before. I claim that the lions were decimated by injury (many of their players needled up and didn't perform, ie Lappin) yet still won. Sorry I had to spell it out.

You will be asked not to respnd on this thread again by RF moods because you have countered his argument.

Please stay out if you are going to talk sense, it confuses RodgerFox, he has even stated so on this thread.

[matrix]

[SainterK]

Brisbane in 03 were the walking wounded going into an even bigger game than a prelim. I recall after the game that it was revealed that they basically started the game with 17 fit players. Yet they won convincingly. Never in the history of the game you say???

Please read what I write before responding in future.

I did read what you wrote - and then I responded with an opinion. That's how it works isn't it?

You said a team decimated by injury has never won a prelim final before. I claim that the lions were decimated by injury (many of their players needled up and didn't perform, ie Lappin) yet still won. Sorry I had to spell it out.

Meh, he brought up North and the Dogs yesterday as part of his post, express yourself however you want to.

[matrix]

and as the tumbleweeds blow, in the distance a faint hum of the theme from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly can be heard.

[SydneySainter]

Mate i have no idea who you are... male or female, but I really feel the urge tobuy you abeer when you'r in town.

You post all too infrequently, but gee I admire your work, truly.

I'll be in town for Round 3. Wouldn't mind meeting a few of the Saintsational crew and finally put some faces to some names.

[rodgerfox]

Brisbane in 03 were the walking wounded going into an even bigger game than a prelim. I recall after the game that it was revealed that they basically started the game with 17 fit players. Yet they won convincingly. Never in the history of the game you say???

Please read what I write before responding in future.

I did read what you wrote - and then I responded with an opinion. That's how it works isn't it?

You said a team decimated by injury has never won a prelim final before. I claim that the lions were decimated by injury (many of their players needled up and didn't perform, ie Lappin) yet still won. Sorry I had to spell it out.

Ok, misunderstanding. Fair enough.

When I say 'decimated', I mean 'injuries force them not to play'.

Basically, if you can play and have an impact on the game, I wouldn't consider that 'decimation'.

So when I said 'decimated' in reference to us, I was referring to us missing 6-8 of our starting 18.

[rodgerfox]

Mate i have no idea who you are... male or female, but I really feel the urge tobuy you abeer when you'r in town.

You post all too infrequently, but gee I admire your work, truly.

I'll be in town for Round 3. Wouldn't mind meeting a few of the Saintsational crew and finally put some faces to some names.

Careful, Wayne has a tendency to become a bit 'close' when he gets a crush.