Good run with injury in '09 no accident

[matrix]

friggin barks......

[Dr Spaceman]

All I can say is that RL gave us a better shot at winning a flag than GT on the basis that we made the GF under RL.

Glad you brought that up again, because I'm yet to get an answer on a question I posed in relation to that very point....

Why did Lyon give us a better shot at it?


We've confirmed that GT controlled everything which made him a monster.

And that Lyon is a hero because he can just focus on coaching.

We've confirmed that he doesn't do the recruiting - just briefs his recruiters as to the type of player he wants.

He doesn't have anything to do with their fitness cause a coach isn't qualified to get involved in this area (although it seems Joffaboy thinks GT should have been keeping records on players' fitness).

So basically he is a match day coach. He has no input into the fitness of players (because this is clearly an area where the coach should butt out of) and he has no influence over the availability of the list.

He just coaches them.


So based on that, why are we saying 'Lyon got us to the GF'?

Why was it so important to hire a boss for him (Drain) if Lyon is responsible for 'getting us to a GF'?


So back to the core of the discussion, please can someone answer these questions for me?

Start with you Joffaboy, you were quite vocal but then managed to sidetrack the discussion just as you were going to answer the above questions that I'd previously asked of you......

Did we make the GF? Yes. Was RL coach? Yes.

On that basis RL got us to the GF, just as Mark Thompson got Geelong to the GF.

It's really quite simply and shouldn't take 13 pages

[markp]

It seems that dodgy has decided to go from playing semantic-pedantic-ping-pong to hypothetical tennis halfway through a game... change your racquets everyone, and stand back.

[Milton66]

All I can say is that RL gave us a better shot at winning a flag than GT on the basis that we made the GF under RL.

Glad you brought that up again, because I'm yet to get an answer on a question I posed in relation to that very point....

Why did Lyon give us a better shot at it?


We've confirmed that GT controlled everything which made him a monster.

And that Lyon is a hero because he can just focus on coaching.

We've confirmed that he doesn't do the recruiting - just briefs his recruiters as to the type of player he wants.

He doesn't have anything to do with their fitness cause a coach isn't qualified to get involved in this area (although it seems Joffaboy thinks GT should have been keeping records on players' fitness).

So basically he is a match day coach. He has no input into the fitness of players (because this is clearly an area where the coach should butt out of) and he has no influence over the availability of the list.

He just coaches them.


So based on that, why are we saying 'Lyon got us to the GF'?

Why was it so important to hire a boss for him (Drain) if Lyon is responsible for 'getting us to a GF'?


So back to the core of the discussion, please can someone answer these questions for me?

Start with you Joffaboy, you were quite vocal but then managed to sidetrack the discussion just as you were going to answer the above questions that I'd previously asked of you......

Did we make the GF? Yes. Was RL coach? Yes.

On that basis RL got us to the GF, just as Mark Thompson got Geelong to the GF.

It's really quite simply and shouldn't take 13 pages

I guess we can't blame RL for losing the GF then, can we?

After all, he was only a "bit" player.

He told them to kick it to Roo, but it was Roo's fault for not taking a mark.

Correct RF?

[markp]

I guess we can't blame RL for losing the GF then, can we?

After all, he was only a "bit" player.

He told them to kick it to Roo, but it was Roo's fault for not taking a mark.

Correct RF?

Roo getting injured cost us a flag.

[matrix]

luke ball getting half a game on the pine cost us a flag.

[markp]

GT cost us a flag.

[rodgerfox]

All I can say is that RL gave us a better shot at winning a flag than GT on the basis that we made the GF under RL.

Glad you brought that up again, because I'm yet to get an answer on a question I posed in relation to that very point....

Why did Lyon give us a better shot at it?


We've confirmed that GT controlled everything which made him a monster.

And that Lyon is a hero because he can just focus on coaching.

We've confirmed that he doesn't do the recruiting - just briefs his recruiters as to the type of player he wants.

He doesn't have anything to do with their fitness cause a coach isn't qualified to get involved in this area (although it seems Joffaboy thinks GT should have been keeping records on players' fitness).

So basically he is a match day coach. He has no input into the fitness of players (because this is clearly an area where the coach should butt out of) and he has no influence over the availability of the list.

He just coaches them.


So based on that, why are we saying 'Lyon got us to the GF'?

Why was it so important to hire a boss for him (Drain) if Lyon is responsible for 'getting us to a GF'?


So back to the core of the discussion, please can someone answer these questions for me?

Start with you Joffaboy, you were quite vocal but then managed to sidetrack the discussion just as you were going to answer the above questions that I'd previously asked of you......

Did we make the GF? Yes. Was RL coach? Yes.

On that basis RL got us to the GF, just as Mark Thompson got Geelong to the GF.

It's really quite simply and shouldn't take 13 pages

I guess we can't blame RL for losing the GF then, can we?

After all, he was only a "bit" player.

He told them to kick it to Roo, but it was Roo's fault for not taking a mark.

Correct RF?

Of course you can't solely blame the coach for losing the GF.

You can't solely blame a coach for much at all.


Why do you ask such a stupid question?

[rodgerfox]

It seems that dodgy has decided to go from playing semantic-pedantic-ping-pong to hypothetical tennis halfway through a game... change your racquets everyone, and stand back.

Actually, you'll find the discussion only digressed when Joffaboy eluded my questions.

I only got into the ridiculous 'semantic-pedantic-ping-pong' as you put it cause I was pressed on it.

All I've done, is get it back to what it was from the beginning - a hypothetical question.

[rodgerfox]

Did we make the GF? Yes. Was RL coach? Yes.

On that basis RL got us to the GF, just as Mark Thompson got Geelong to the GF.

It's really quite simply and shouldn't take 13 pages

Mark Thompson didn't get Geelong to a GF.

He played a role in them getting to GF, but in modern footy depts he played a fairly minor role in the scheme of things apparently.

[joffaboy]

[Actually, you'll find the discussion only digressed when Joffaboy eluded my questions.

LIAR

[markp]

Of course you can't solely blame the coach for losing the GF.

You can't solely blame a coach for much at all.

Can you blame anything solely?

[asiu]

yes

andrew

[Dr Spaceman]

Did we make the GF? Yes. Was RL coach? Yes.

On that basis RL got us to the GF, just as Mark Thompson got Geelong to the GF.

It's really quite simply and shouldn't take 13 pages

Mark Thompson didn't get Geelong to a GF.

He played a role in them getting to GF, but in modern footy depts he played a fairly minor role in the scheme of things apparently.

RL is coach and the Saints got to the GF therefore he got us there.

MT is coach and the Cats got to the GF therefore he got them there.

End of story.

If you take another view, and clearly you do, then it becomes a view that will simply continue to be debated with no hope of resolution.

However it's a waste of time so I'll concentrate on 2010 and allow you, and the posters that like to respond to you, to carry on about things that have happened in the past.

[rodgerfox]

Of course you can't solely blame the coach for losing the GF.

You can't solely blame a coach for much at all.

Can you blame anything solely?

Of course you can blame one thing - but not one person.


Throughout this thread, and many, many others we've come to the conclusion that GT as a coach should not have been involved in things other than coaching.
He needed a boss to oversee fitness, injuries, recruitment etc.

The head coach, apparently has no place sticking his nose into these areas.

This is also apparently why GT to go. He mismanaged pretty much all these areas and as a coach it's massively negligent to be responsible for such areas anyway.

Since Lyon took over, strangely he's been accredited with hiring (or at the very least luring) Misson to the club.
Clearly an area that he should not be involved in for reasons stated above.

He's been accredited for the brilliant recruiting of rejects from others clubs. Another area which based on this thread seems he shouldn't, and according to SrR, he infact has no input into - he only outlines the type of player he wants to the recruiters.

This area, 'List Management' is overseen by Matthew Drain apparently. This was the guy we needed to take over all these things from GT to move the club forward.

So you see, Ross Lyon doesn't actually do that much. He coaches.

That basically means he stays away from the training in relation to fitness and conditioning, but just dreams up cool drills for training.
He develops a game plan.

And that's it.

He's given a list of guys each year and each week in varying conditions of fitness and health (beyond his control and beyond his responsibility) and he coaches them.

Please don't ask what his many assistants do, cause frankly there doesn't seem to be much left!


This, is the new 'modern football department' we've needed so badly.


So this is why this comment confused me.....

"ROSS LYON GOT US TO A GRAND FINAL, THEREFORE GAVE US A SHOT AT A FLAG"


How is it that Ross Lyon got us to a GF and gave us a shot at a flag?

Is the above statement is true, then very little emphasis and recognition must go to list management, fitness and injury management.


For some reason though, I can't get an answer out of Joffaboy.

[rodgerfox]

RL is coach and the Saints got to the GF therefore he got us there.

MT is coach and the Cats got to the GF therefore he got them there.

End of story.

So you don't rate recruitment, list management, fitness, injury management etc. either?

You think in the end, the coach, ahead of the players and all the areas listed above is the one who is in control and overall responsible?

[SainterK]

Did we make the GF? Yes. Was RL coach? Yes.

On that basis RL got us to the GF, just as Mark Thompson got Geelong to the GF.

It's really quite simply and shouldn't take 13 pages

Mark Thompson didn't get Geelong to a GF.

He played a role in them getting to GF, but in modern footy depts he played a fairly minor role in the scheme of things apparently.

RL is coach and the Saints got to the GF therefore he got us there.

MT is coach and the Cats got to the GF therefore he got them there.

End of story.

If you take another view, and clearly you do, then it becomes a view that will simply continue to be debated with no hope of resolution.

However it's a waste of time so I'll concentrate on 2010 and allow you, and the posters that like to respond to you, to carry on about things that have happened in the past.

I agree with you, but I guarantee you it won't be the "end of story"

[rodgerfox]

I agree with you, but I guarantee you it won't be the "end of story"

Well I'll ask you the same question then....


So you don't rate recruitment, list management, fitness, injury management etc. either?

You think in the end, the coach, ahead of the players and all the areas listed above is the one who is in control and overall responsible?

[SainterK]

How is it that Ross Lyon got us to a GF and gave us a shot at a flag?

http://www.saints.com.au/TheClub/Coache ... fault.aspx

[rodgerfox]

How is it that Ross Lyon got us to a GF and gave us a shot at a flag?

http://www.saints.com.au/TheClub/Coache ... fault.aspx

?

Oh, so you think Lyon got us to the a GF cause it says so on the Internet?


End thread.

[SainterK]

How is it that Ross Lyon got us to a GF and gave us a shot at a flag?

http://www.saints.com.au/TheClub/Coache ... fault.aspx

?

Oh, so you think Lyon got us to the a GF cause it says so on the Internet?


End thread.

Worth a try

[SainterK]

I agree with you, but I guarantee you it won't be the "end of story"

Well I'll ask you the same question then....


So you don't rate recruitment, list management, fitness, injury management etc. either?

You think in the end, the coach, ahead of the players and all the areas listed above is the one who is in control and overall responsible?

It is now history that Ross Lyon was the senior coach for 2009 when the St Kilda football club played in a grand final.

If Dave Misson or SOS or Matthew Drain want the title, they should have aspirations to be a senior coach.

[rodgerfox]

It is now history that Ross Lyon was the senior coach for 2009 when the St Kilda football club played in a grand final.

If Dave Misson or SOS or Matthew Drain want the title, they should have aspirations to be a senior coach.

He coached the team to the GF.


How does that equate to ....

"ROSS LYON GOT US TO A GRAND FINAL, THEREFORE GAVE US A SHOT AT A FLAG"

[markp]

Of course you can't solely blame the coach for losing the GF.

You can't solely blame a coach for much at all.

Can you blame anything solely?

Of course you can blame one thing - but not one person.


Throughout this thread, and many, many others we've come to the conclusion that GT as a coach should not have been involved in things other than coaching.
He needed a boss to oversee fitness, injuries, recruitment etc.

The head coach, apparently has no place sticking his nose into these areas.

This is also apparently why GT to go. He mismanaged pretty much all these areas and as a coach it's massively negligent to be responsible for such areas anyway.

Since Lyon took over, strangely he's been accredited with hiring (or at the very least luring) Misson to the club.
Clearly an area that he should not be involved in for reasons stated above.

He's been accredited for the brilliant recruiting of rejects from others clubs. Another area which based on this thread seems he shouldn't, and according to SrR, he infact has no input into - he only outlines the type of player he wants to the recruiters.

This area, 'List Management' is overseen by Matthew Drain apparently. This was the guy we needed to take over all these things from GT to move the club forward.

So you see, Ross Lyon doesn't actually do that much. He coaches.

That basically means he stays away from the training in relation to fitness and conditioning, but just dreams up cool drills for training.
He develops a game plan.

And that's it.

He's given a list of guys each year and each week in varying conditions of fitness and health (beyond his control and beyond his responsibility) and he coaches them.

Please don't ask what his many assistants do, cause frankly there doesn't seem to be much left!


This, is the new 'modern football department' we've needed so badly.


So this is why this comment confused me.....

"ROSS LYON GOT US TO A GRAND FINAL, THEREFORE GAVE US A SHOT AT A FLAG"


How is it that Ross Lyon got us to a GF and gave us a shot at a flag?

Is the above statement is true, then very little emphasis and recognition must go to list management, fitness and injury management.


For some reason though, I can't get an answer out of Joffaboy.

On the afternoon when he met the '66 team at the reunion, Lyon made no promises. He told them that premierships were difficult to win - a self-evident fact for that gathering. But he gave them a hint of his coaching style by using a favourite phrase: ''Let the cobblers do the cobbling.'' In team Lyon, every person had a specific job.

Sometimes the best thing you can do is get out of the way.

Wu Wei... action through non action.

How'd GT fair in that dept?

If RL does not deliver a flag, regardless of excuses, he will be deemed a failure... just like GT.

[SainterK]

It is now history that Ross Lyon was the senior coach for 2009 when the St Kilda football club played in a grand final.

If Dave Misson or SOS or Matthew Drain want the title, they should have aspirations to be a senior coach.

He coached the team to the GF.


How does that equate to ....

"ROSS LYON GOT US TO A GRAND FINAL, THEREFORE GAVE US A SHOT AT A FLAG"

Will it help you find some peace if we replace GOT with COACHED?