Ross cant do much more than this???

[White Winmar]

Jack Anthony is alleged to have been the first person the victim contacted after the incident. That means he would be giving "evidence of first complaint", a very important element in any case involving rape. Whether he called the police or not, he would've been "dragged" into the investigation by the police eventually, as his evidence will be crucial one way or another. Just to add to the elements of rape, the lack of consent to the act of penetration may come about through "force, fear or fraud". Force is obvious, fear can include the threat of force or other demands, or fraud , e.g. pretending to be a doctor and conducting a medical examination, or sneaking into someone's bed pretending to be someone the victim might ordinarily consent to.

In any event, AL appears to be in more trouble than the early explorers. Tragic for all concerned. All will be revealed in the fullness of time and any court proceedings that eventuate. It will be interesting to see how much of the speculation and media "leaks" turn out to be accurate. In the courts of public opinion and media speculation, I can't help feeling he has already been found guilty, no matter how many times the word allegedly is used.

[bigred]

I think I gave this forum more credit than it is worth!

It must be her fault! Mr Hypothetical just fell on her with his old fella hanging out!

Simple mistake....Could happen to anyone.

Or should we just say that perhaps Miss Hypothetical went out dressed as a whore, so she deserved it. If she had not have looked so hot, Mr Hypothetical could have controlled himself.

What a lot of horse shyt.

You may not be saying what I just wrote above word for word, but I reckon a few of you are thinking that it is the woman who is at fault. Or that it is somehow her fault since she was asleep at the time.

The way it is sounding, Mr Hypothetical is going to be charged with a pretty serious crime.

Not getting any support from the club, kinda indicates that there is no issue of a "footy groupie" making some false accusation. He is in the shyt plain and simple. His team mates have deserted him.

Rape is a fkn nasty crime. Imagine if it was your sister, mother, wife or daughter.

Mr Hyperthetical is lucky he can run fast, since he may be on the receiving end in prison. Hyperthetically.

[chook23]

bigred don't blame the forum or all posters

but the individual (s)

Let it wash out through the court system if charged......

I must admit you have him hanged without the court case

I am not sure.....

without knowing the facts.

[Milton66]

I think I gave this forum more credit than it is worth!

It must be her fault! Mr Hypothetical just fell on her with his old fella hanging out!

Simple mistake....Could happen to anyone.

Or should we just say that perhaps Miss Hypothetical went out dressed as a whore, so she deserved it. If she had not have looked so hot, Mr Hypothetical could have controlled himself.

What a lot of horse shyt.

You may not be saying what I just wrote above word for word, but I reckon a few of you are thinking that it is the woman who is at fault. Or that it is somehow her fault since she was asleep at the time.

The way it is sounding, Mr Hypothetical is going to be charged with a pretty serious crime.

Not getting any support from the club, kinda indicates that there is no issue of a "footy groupie" making some false accusation. He is in the shyt plain and simple. His team mates have deserted him.

Rape is a fkn nasty crime. Imagine if it was your sister, mother, wife or daughter.

Mr Hyperthetical is lucky he can run fast, since he may be on the receiving end in prison. Hyperthetically.

Fact or opinion?

[stinger]

Jack Anthony is alleged to have been the first person the victim contacted after the incident. That means he would be giving "evidence of first complaint", a very important element in any case involving rape. Whether he called the police or not, he would've been "dragged" into the investigation by the police eventually, as his evidence will be crucial one way or another. Just to add to the elements of rape, the lack of consent to the act of penetration may come about through "force, fear or fraud". Force is obvious, fear can include the threat of force or other demands, or fraud , e.g. pretending to be a doctor and conducting a medical examination, or sneaking into someone's bed pretending to be someone the victim might ordinarily consent to.

In any event, AL appears to be in more trouble than the early explorers. Tragic for all concerned. All will be revealed in the fullness of time and any court proceedings that eventuate. It will be interesting to see how much of the speculation and media "leaks" turn out to be accurate. In the courts of public opinion and media speculation, I can't help feeling he has already been found guilty, no matter how many times the word allegedly is used.

good accurate informative post....

the speclation on here...whilst understandable is hardly helpful....

[bigred]

I think I gave this forum more credit than it is worth!

It must be her fault! Mr Hypothetical just fell on her with his old fella hanging out!

Simple mistake....Could happen to anyone.

Or should we just say that perhaps Miss Hypothetical went out dressed as a whore, so she deserved it. If she had not have looked so hot, Mr Hypothetical could have controlled himself.

What a lot of horse shyt.

You may not be saying what I just wrote above word for word, but I reckon a few of you are thinking that it is the woman who is at fault. Or that it is somehow her fault since she was asleep at the time.

The way it is sounding, Mr Hypothetical is going to be charged with a pretty serious crime.

Not getting any support from the club, kinda indicates that there is no issue of a "footy groupie" making some false accusation. He is in the shyt plain and simple. His team mates have deserted him.

Rape is a fkn nasty crime. Imagine if it was your sister, mother, wife or daughter.

Mr Hyperthetical is lucky he can run fast, since he may be on the receiving end in prison. Hyperthetically.

Fact or opinion?

Opinion. Obviously

Sure, it may sound like I am already considering Mr Hypothetical guilty as charged, which I dont want to do.

My point is, that I absolutely hate how people try to justify rape via placing guilt on the woman. It is flowering astounding.

Innocent until proven otherwise.

But I dont want him at my football club anymore. I have made my mind up on that one. THAT is my opinion.

[markp]

Yup... some of the comments in this thread remind me why I never get a reserved seat.



Quality.

[Milton66]

I think I gave this forum more credit than it is worth!

It must be her fault! Mr Hypothetical just fell on her with his old fella hanging out!

Simple mistake....Could happen to anyone.

Or should we just say that perhaps Miss Hypothetical went out dressed as a whore, so she deserved it. If she had not have looked so hot, Mr Hypothetical could have controlled himself.

What a lot of horse shyt.

You may not be saying what I just wrote above word for word, but I reckon a few of you are thinking that it is the woman who is at fault. Or that it is somehow her fault since she was asleep at the time.

The way it is sounding, Mr Hypothetical is going to be charged with a pretty serious crime.

Not getting any support from the club, kinda indicates that there is no issue of a "footy groupie" making some false accusation. He is in the shyt plain and simple. His team mates have deserted him.

Rape is a fkn nasty crime. Imagine if it was your sister, mother, wife or daughter.

Mr Hyperthetical is lucky he can run fast, since he may be on the receiving end in prison. Hyperthetically.

Fact or opinion?

Opinion. Obviously

Sure, it may sound like I am already considering Mr Hypothetical guilty as charged, which I dont want to do.

My point is, that I absolutely hate how people try to justify rape via placing guilt on the woman. It is flowering astounding.

Innocent until proven otherwise.

But I dont want him at my football club anymore. I have made my mind up on that one. THAT is my opinion.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I am not trying to justify anything. There are 2 sides to every story, and until the facts are out, no one knows which one is correct.

So please explain why you don't want him at the club.

[bigred]

lols.

If the players dont want him, then why would anyone else.

Hell, some didnt even want him before he was traded.

He is bad news, has history and so far, he is living up to past form.

[Milton66]

lols.

If the players dont want him, then why would anyone else.

Hell, some didnt even want him before he was traded.

He is bad news, has history and so far, he is living up to past form.

not being smart, but... fact or opinion?

You still haven't told why you don't want him there. IS it because of history or what he's allegedly done?

[bigred]

Both.

Had history when he came to the club.

Went on the piss when he came to the club.

Then this little issue.

The club has had very few behavior issues over the past few years and it has been good.

Feel free to quote me on this statement:

I dont want Andrew Lovett at the St.Kilda Football club because I am uncomfortable with his poor history of off field behavior and because of the current issues surrounding him

That is my opinion.

Sure, people deserve a second chance. We have players on our list that have had issues in the past and we have looked beyond them. That is fine.

However, I tend to believe that Domestic violence and Sexual assault are isses at another level entirely.

A few years back we had players in a somewhat similar position. The club elected to stand by the players and support them through it all. That has not happened this time. Maybe for good reason, or maybe just because of an even more politically correct AFL...We wont know.

However, and perhaps more telling than any of the other bulltish being touted around, is that the players dont want to play with him. As far as opinion goes, that is probably the strongest one out there.

[I Love Peter Kiel]

To go back to the original point on the thread..RL I'm sure has done all he can. He has my full support.

I certainly regret if I have offended anyone and do not wish to slander the said opposition player. He has achieved a lot so far with sheer determination, which must say something about his character.

I assume everyone here is a Saints supporter and wants what's best for the club.We have to support the team we're given. We don't interview potential coaches or decide who to pick in the drafts.

This recent matter is very serious indeed...potentially the worst at the club in my time as a supporter. No matter what happens, the media and opposition supporters could have a field day with it.

But at the end of it all, there'll still be a StKFC. 22 players will run out onto "White Elephant Stadium" (Homebush) on the 27th of March and they'll need our support more than ever.

[degruch]

He is bad news, has history and so far, he is living up to past form.

That's what I'm worried about...I mean, it looks like you're pretty well bang on BR, but I'm concerned that he's going to be lynched on this matter because of his past record and an off-season birthday piss-up. I don't want any d***heads at our club any more than the next person, and he can bugger off if he's done the crime. However, none of us know the facts, how it occurred, who was involved, or even if there was ever a rape at all, until the thruth comes out. What's said on Big Footy and printed in the HUN can be very far from the thruth...how long has the article about his impending sacking been on the Fox Sport website?

Either way, I've been absent until last week to avoid all this crap, was it like this 5-6 years ago with the previous controversy? I hope something happens either way to end it soon. As I mentioned before, I would hate to think that he becomes the first Saint to be booed by the club's own own supporters on debut! That said, I can't blame people for forming an opinion based on his efforts to date.

[saint66au]

Jack Anthony is alleged to have been the first person the victim contacted after the incident. That means he would be giving "evidence of first complaint", a very important element in any case involving rape. Whether he called the police or not, he would've been "dragged" into the investigation by the police eventually, as his evidence will be crucial one way or another. Just to add to the elements of rape, the lack of consent to the act of penetration may come about through "force, fear or fraud". Force is obvious, fear can include the threat of force or other demands, or fraud , e.g. pretending to be a doctor and conducting a medical examination, or sneaking into someone's bed pretending to be someone the victim might ordinarily consent to.

In any event, AL appears to be in more trouble than the early explorers. Tragic for all concerned. All will be revealed in the fullness of time and any court proceedings that eventuate. It will be interesting to see how much of the speculation and media "leaks" turn out to be accurate. In the courts of public opinion and media speculation, I can't help feeling he has already been found guilty, no matter how many times the word allegedly is used.

So if he was allegedly involved only, why use his name..or is it ok to name him just cos BF did??

[White Winmar]

I was trying to make the point that Jack Anthony hasn't done anything wrong, as far as I can tell. Some think he may have. I can't see what he could've done differently if an alleged victim reported the crime to him first. He was involved by the alleged victim and did what any honest and decent human being would do when informed of an alleged rape. He informed the police. As for BF, that is not my source for this. I'd like to believe my source is reliable. In all the circumstances, it is only fair to use the term alleged, because nothing has been proven yet. Not even that Jack Anthony was somehow involved with the reporting and aftermath. So I do see your point S66. I guess this makes me as guilty of speculation as the next bloke.

[chook23]

Both.

Had history when he came to the club.

Went on the piss when he came to the club.

Then this little issue.

The club has had very few behavior issues over the past few years and it has been good.

Feel free to quote me on this statement:

I dont want Andrew Lovett at the St.Kilda Football club because I am uncomfortable with his poor history of off field behavior and because of the current issues surrounding him

That is my opinion.

Sure, people deserve a second chance. We have players on our list that have had issues in the past and we have looked beyond them. That is fine.

However, I tend to believe that Domestic violence and Sexual assault are isses at another level entirely.

A few years back we had players in a somewhat similar position. The club elected to stand by the players and support them through it all. That has not happened this time. Maybe for good reason, or maybe just because of an even more politically correct AFL...We wont know.

However, and perhaps more telling than any of the other bulltish being touted around, is that the players dont want to play with him. As far as opinion goes, that is probably the strongest one out there.

Agree with a lot you are saying BR

My thoughts have been stated in a number of threads....wait for the charge(s) if any and outcome of court....


but your last para....other than journo or 2 I have never seen an article were players quoted nor have I seen a tv interview ..............

It has been mentioned in a couple of previous articles ...it is believed .....until this latest HS article but still no quotes from the journo...

Nor has anything official come from club

Unless you have heard direct from elsewhere it appears your statement is an opinion based from these articles

It may be true but you appear to mention it as fact

I don't know if some players feel that way.

A reasonable assumption maybe...time will tell

[To the top]

Last effort on this "forum" for me.

This matter has not resulted in charges as yet - so there is not even a remand date for any appearance before a Court for the purpose of pleading.

Yet, to many on here, the man is guilty as alleged.

Victoria Police will present their brief of statements and any supporting evidence to the DPP who will make decision as to the strength of any possible prosecution case.

The Court does not deal with balance of possibility, it deals with guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

Matters such as this are always complicated.

Lovett has been (understandably in my view for a raft of reasons, none of which have to do with any guilt - otherwise Victoria Police would have immediately arrested and charged Lovett if the Club or anyone was in possesion of information pointing to his guilt) suspended indefinately by the Club, who have also told him to keep himself fit.

To the likes of the serial stalker, Plughole 16, who responds to every contribution I have put on this site endeavoring to discuss matters St Kilda and now in regards this most unfortunate matter (for the people involved, their families and friends, the Club and the wider community) I say, with all due respect, I trust I never get to sit at the footy in proximity to excuses for human beings such as you.

But I do apologise for contributing when I am in different time zones. I trust keeping up with me has not been too debilitating for you.

I must agree with one poster who has concluded that he is relieved not to sit in the St Kilda Membership area given some of the opinions expressed on here.

You will never find me, my daughters, my sons and my mates, with whom I go and enjoy a meal and the footy, in that area either.



Each to their own, so enjoy your lives!

To those who obviously do know something about footy (and, in more recent times, the law of the land!) it has been enjoyable to interact with you and your opinions as and when I have had the time and the inclination.

We hope St Kilda improves by the 20% it needs to improve by to give the competition a real shake again in 2010.

[stinger]

i have in the main enjoyed your informative and insightful posts on footy and saints related matters ..if you left over this issue it would be a real shame and the forum would be all the poorer

[SainterK]

Actually, I find people who choose to leave the forum because of a couple of annoying posters, very unfair.

It's like everyone in the class being punished for the naughtiness of a few.

TTT, you can choose to leave if you wish, but I am not happy about it much.

[bobmurray]

Last effort on this "forum" for me.

see ya

[santazzi]

Mere abuse will not stop me.

We've heard of high-profile footballers in the past bashing their ex's new partner.

For blokes an "ex' is never really an "ex". For women an "ex" may as well belong to a previous century.

I refer to your last sentence. It is a facinating idea which I have not come accross in my readings before. For this assertion, do you have a primary source? By primary source I mean a scholarly work by persons in the fields of psychology, sociology. neuropsychology, social anthropology etc......

[bigred]

lols.

I've seen worse on this forum than this little issue.

This place always implodes in the off season anyway.

[St Fidelius]

lols.

I've seen worse on this forum than this little issue.

This place always implodes in the off season anyway.

Too right it does, but hopefully this year it wont.....

AFTER WE WIN THE PREMIERSHIP

[plugger66]

Last effort on this "forum" for me.

This matter has not resulted in charges as yet - so there is not even a remand date for any appearance before a Court for the purpose of pleading.

Yet, to many on here, the man is guilty as alleged.

Victoria Police will present their brief of statements and any supporting evidence to the DPP who will make decision as to the strength of any possible prosecution case.

The Court does not deal with balance of possibility, it deals with guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

Matters such as this are always complicated.

Lovett has been (understandably in my view for a raft of reasons, none of which have to do with any guilt - otherwise Victoria Police would have immediately arrested and charged Lovett if the Club or anyone was in possesion of information pointing to his guilt) suspended indefinately by the Club, who have also told him to keep himself fit.

To the likes of the serial stalker, Plughole 16, who responds to every contribution I have put on this site endeavoring to discuss matters St Kilda and now in regards this most unfortunate matter (for the people involved, their families and friends, the Club and the wider community) I say, with all due respect, I trust I never get to sit at the footy in proximity to excuses for human beings such as you.

But I do apologise for contributing when I am in different time zones. I trust keeping up with me has not been too debilitating for you.

I must agree with one poster who has concluded that he is relieved not to sit in the St Kilda Membership area given some of the opinions expressed on here.

You will never find me, my daughters, my sons and my mates, with whom I go and enjoy a meal and the footy, in that area either.



Each to their own, so enjoy your lives!

To those who obviously do know something about footy (and, in more recent times, the law of the land!) it has been enjoyable to interact with you and your opinions as and when I have had the time and the inclination.

We hope St Kilda improves by the 20% it needs to improve by to give the competition a real shake again in 2010.

You obviously will not read this as you have had a sook and left the site but I feel I have the right to defend myself.

Not once did I personnally have a real go at you but in this case and a few others i have the right to disagree with what you are saying. In this case i disagree with your post and said so. Not in a spiteful way like this post is to me but you then also choose to spit the dummy and quit the site. Well good luck to you. Hope to catch up at the footy.

[Moods]

Obviously no-one disagrees with To The Top in his family. In his family he is king and his opinions are lauded No wonder he won't sit in the members area. He must sit in a box with his family as they hang off his every word.

Fair dinkum - if you want to leave, then leave, why make a formal exit?