He is gone...rumour

[Richter]

He has not finished in his club's B&F Top 10.

That's damning considering they are a shiit team who were ravaged by injury.


It means one of the following...

He does not do what the coach/team want him to do, therefore doesn't get votes.

He is inconsistent and drifts in and out of games.

He may get 20 touches, but doesn't do anything that resembles team play.

He wastes the nut.

All of the above.


To say he is a proven gun is crazy. Proven to whom? Obviously not Essendon.
Obviosly not the umps as in his 'best ever season' he only polled 5 votes.
Obviously not the 'experts', as he was nowhere to be seen in the Herald-Sun Player of the Year awards.

The last two don't matter much, but the first one does. If the club he plays for doesn't rate him, he's not proving he's a gun to anyone - except you it seems and few over-exhuberant Saints fans on here.

No Rodger, craziness doesn't come into it. I have provided some objective stats to back up my claim. What you have is opinions. The opinion of the Bombers coaches was that he was not top 10 last year. Doesn't take away the fact that he gets the pill and scores with it.

Fact - Lovett was top 5 in average number of disposals per game at the Bombers last year

Fact - Lovett was top 5 in average number of goals per game at the Bombers last year

Given that the Saints biggest recruiting need is for another quality mid WHO CAN SCORE GOALS, it is perfectly obvious why Lyon picked him up.

[Animal Enclosure]

I would have preferred
Pick #16, Pick 30, Pick 32, X.Clarke, Pick 63, Pick 77
in the last uncomprimised draft.....considering the next few years we will get zilch

All fair enough comments except that the 09 draft was compromised as GC17 already had taken the best 17 year olds out of it. The draft was weak for two reasons;

1. GC concessions had started
2. A weak year in general talent wise.

That is why a number of clubs traded away picks, us included.

[rodgerfox]

Given that the Saints biggest recruiting need is for another quality mid WHO CAN SCORE GOALS, it is perfectly obvious why Lyon picked him up.

I don't see that as a given at all.

I also don't see Lovett as being the fix for it.

And therefore I don't see it as perfectly obvious why Lyon picked him up.


If Lyon let Lovett walk in and be his usual outside, soft, selfish, outside, inconsistent self - then I reckon Dal and Milne would rightfully be pretty dirty.

[DWOODROW]

Lovett has been at Saint Kilda since breakfast time and has two marks against his name. Saints are trying to win the most important game in the AFL season( GRANDFINAL) and all this is doing at the moment with having such an allegation over a certain player is take away the focus on the prize.
The fact that he is not at the club or training in my opinion is called for. At what point has anyone asked why Lovett hasn't accounted for his own actions. To stuff up once before even playing should have been the nail in the head for him to Put his lifestyle to the side and try and repay the faith by the coaching staff and the Saint Kilda club for recruiting him and giving him a chance to be in a great team.
To stuff up a second time in such a pathetic and serious incident( By Pathetic I mean disgraceful) then why should he be kept or given another chance by the club. The club has it's sights set on the prize and obviously Andrew hasn't quite grasped it.
I really hope it sorts itself out quickly but I also hope that the Team can refocus on what the goal is and suceed.
I don't think I have stated anything that anyone else hasn't thought of or even said but again nothing has been said formally apart from their being allegations but it isn't something that is going to go away overnight. Bad publicity for the club and I can imagine Rooey having a meeting with all the boys before training and letting them know what is expected and required and if you don't towe the line then their is the door. If not( WHICH I iamagine he has already done ) then he should.
It's too close for the saints to lose their focus. Come on Saints, It's nearly there.

[plugger66]

It could be a case of .... can't see the forest for the trees....

Some people seem to think we either will

win the flag next year or need to make sure we do...not a guarantee..... what I am saying is that being short-sighted can come at a cost and there is a risk involved when you do not continue to bring the best young talent in..... a long term negative effect....even if lovett worked (which was very speculative) it still would have hurt long term....and it will take more than 1 more year at the top to win the GF

example
Sydney picked up Hall for Dal....Hall has left (with a cup) we have a dual AA who has another possible 120 games left.....short term it worked for sydney.....long term it has benefited us...Dal may play in 2 flags yet.....IF HALL was delisted before he played a game.....who would have been the winner?????

there is also the effect of breaking up a tight knit group for results....and how that effects group loyalty down the track....we expect players to remain loyal and stick by the jumper even when their income is at stake, yet it seems we think the club has NO responsibility to do the same?????

Supporters even Boo players who gave great service to the jumper in their time.....

anyway that is another argument.....

Fact is
Ball gone for Zero.......LOSS
Lovett gone for Pick #16.......LOSS
Clarke gone for pick #60.....Ridiculous and pointless.
Maguire for pick #90......was he a better gamble than the kid from Sandy....time will tell....maybe that was worth the risk
Peake.....fair enough, as a back up for X if he did not work

I would have preferred
Pick #16, Pick 30, Pick 32, X.Clarke, Pick 63, Pick 77
in the last uncomprimised draft.....considering the next few years we will get zilch

You lost your aguement as soon as you used Hall and Dal as an example. Sydney short term gain won them a flag. We have one won in 112 years. Big deal if in the short term we only win one flag because of a short term recruitment. And dal may win 2. He could also win none. Why use those 2 to prove short term recruitment isnt good for a club.

[milney044]

Well, it is true that the majority of coaching staff at Essendon didn't like Lovett. IMO this to me explains his lack of votes. As for brownlow votes, Essendon had an ordinary year and didn't win many games, it is not often that players from losing sides poll particularly well.
I am not saying that Lovett was or is a gun, but he is certainly a serviceable player and one of which with many assets that our current playing list lacks (a bit of flair, run, carry, and the ability to score goals).
As it stood come the draft and trading period, I was glad that we had taken the risk on Lovett. He fitted the missing link in our playing list and at the time I didn't see giving up pick 16 as a huge gamble in what was known as a weak draft.

As it stands it looks as though I was wrong, whether Lovett is guilty or not he doesn't appear to have taken his new opportunity at St Kilda very seriously.
The point is that at the time of the draft, Lovett looked to be a very exciting prospect (and a risk as well, but one I considered worth taking).

I for one do not blame Lyon for trying to improve our list. I am sure he is more disappointed than anyone by Lovett's actions. With any draft period, you are going to win some, and you're going to lose some. I'd prefer we took the risks while trying to improve our list, than to sit back cautiously and never look to fill the gaps.

[Teflon]

It could be a case of .... can't see the forest for the trees....

Some people seem to think we either will

win the flag next year or need to make sure we do...not a guarantee..... what I am saying is that being short-sighted can come at a cost and there is a risk involved when you do not continue to bring the best young talent in..... a long term negative effect....even if lovett worked (which was very speculative) it still would have hurt long term....and it will take more than 1 more year at the top to win the GF

example
Sydney picked up Hall for Dal....Hall has left (with a cup) we have a dual AA who has another possible 120 games left.....short term it worked for sydney.....long term it has benefited us...Dal may play in 2 flags yet.....IF HALL was delisted before he played a game.....who would have been the winner?????

there is also the effect of breaking up a tight knit group for results....and how that effects group loyalty down the track....we expect players to remain loyal and stick by the jumper even when their income is at stake, yet it seems we think the club has NO responsibility to do the same?????

Supporters even Boo players who gave great service to the jumper in their time.....

anyway that is another argument.....

Fact is
Ball gone for Zero.......LOSS
Lovett gone for Pick #16.......LOSS
Clarke gone for pick #60.....Ridiculous and pointless.
Maguire for pick #90......was he a better gamble than the kid from Sandy....time will tell....maybe that was worth the risk
Peake.....fair enough, as a back up for X if he did not work

I would have preferred
Pick #16, Pick 30, Pick 32, X.Clarke, Pick 63, Pick 77
in the last uncomprimised draft.....considering the next few years we will get zilch

It could just be a case that not all is black/white when dealing with lists, clubs, people....and some have a 1 size fits all approach.

Facts are: Sydney recruited Hall - troubled player who bought the club troubles for sure.....they also now have a flag ....IT WORKED.

In short - they gambled and it paid off. We gambled on this and it didnt.

Lets assume Lovett worked. We win the 2010 GF....we still didnt bring in the best "long term kid"......did it work?....Id argue it did........do we still suffer "long term pain"?.......we have a flag (and we only have 1 in 100 yrs)....I'll take the pain thanks from missing out on the pick 16 in the weakened 2009 draft anyday for that.

Drafting isnt a "one size fits all" - you simply can't ignore current circumstances....theres plenty of examples of "gun kids" going nowhere....

Ofcourse in hindsight Id say "I'll keep Xavier Clarke/pick 16 thanks" cause Lovetts gonna end up a mess......its lovely hindsight.....unfortunately trade week was October.....coach/club didnt have that info then.....

[HarveysDeciple]

Not through the old conspiracy theory into the mix, but if Hall played for any other club, he would have been suspended from the grand final, and the swans most likely would not have won the flag.

One of the most clear cut suspendable offences of all time.

[Spinner]

Not through the old conspiracy theory into the mix, but if Hall played for any other club, he would have been suspended from the grand final, and the swans most likely would not have won the flag.

One of the most clear cut suspendable offences of all time.

Yep!

[Spinner]

It could be a case of .... can't see the forest for the trees....

Some people seem to think we either will

win the flag next year or need to make sure we do...not a guarantee..... what I am saying is that being short-sighted can come at a cost and there is a risk involved when you do not continue to bring the best young talent in..... a long term negative effect....even if lovett worked (which was very speculative) it still would have hurt long term....and it will take more than 1 more year at the top to win the GF

example
Sydney picked up Hall for Dal....Hall has left (with a cup) we have a dual AA who has another possible 120 games left.....short term it worked for sydney.....long term it has benefited us...Dal may play in 2 flags yet.....IF HALL was delisted before he played a game.....who would have been the winner?????

there is also the effect of breaking up a tight knit group for results....and how that effects group loyalty down the track....we expect players to remain loyal and stick by the jumper even when their income is at stake, yet it seems we think the club has NO responsibility to do the same?????

Supporters even Boo players who gave great service to the jumper in their time.....

anyway that is another argument.....

Fact is
Ball gone for Zero.......LOSS
Lovett gone for Pick #16.......LOSS
Clarke gone for pick #60.....Ridiculous and pointless.
Maguire for pick #90......was he a better gamble than the kid from Sandy....time will tell....maybe that was worth the risk
Peake.....fair enough, as a back up for X if he did not work

I would have preferred
Pick #16, Pick 30, Pick 32, X.Clarke, Pick 63, Pick 77
in the last uncomprimised draft.....considering the next few years we will get zilch

You lost your aguement as soon as you used Hall and Dal as an example. Sydney short term gain won them a flag. We have one won in 112 years. Big deal if in the short term we only win one flag because of a short term recruitment. And dal may win 2. He could also win none. Why use those 2 to prove short term recruitment isnt good for a club.

Spot on.

I consider us lucky that Dal is a decent player.

Imagine if Sydney had given us picks 2 and 5 that year.....Right now we wouldnt be on top with that deal......

[aussiejones]

2009 we had poor draft picks anyway.

The Ball saga was one of irreconcilable differences between Coaching style requirements and players inability to conform to coachs requirements for whatever reason . Unfortunately we ended up with nothing but space in our salary cap and opportunity for our younger guys.

The Lovett saga .. a calculated risk , some work some dont , but thats the same with ALL draft picks. Geez we have made mistakes in the past and also we have picked up some excellent players.

Time to move on.

[fingers]

2009 we had poor draft picks anyway.

The Ball saga was one of irreconcilable differences between Coaching style requirements and players inability to conform to coachs requirements for whatever reason . Unfortunately we ended up with nothing but space in our salary cap and opportunity for our younger guys.

The Lovett saga .. a calculated risk , some work some dont , but thats the same with ALL draft picks. Geez we have made mistakes in the past and also we have picked up some excellent players.

Time to move on.

Take your common sense, level headed nonsense to some other board.

[aussiejones]

Fingers .......It doesnt mean I am happy about it at all.

In fact I am VERY disapointed at both BALL and LOVETT!!!!!!!!!!

[SaintWodonga]

Until an official statement comes out we are all guessing. Whatever the club does, I will stand by their decision.

[I Love Peter Kiel]

Well said, both teflon and harveysdisciple.

I WOULD take the long term pain 'cause we want a FLAG! One in 100 yrs isn't good enogh.

I also agree Hall should have been suspended for the d%g act of punching Maguie about 100m off the ball.

Much as you can bag Hall (and I do!) he is a Premiership player , and good luck to him. So far, only 20 past players at St Kilda share that distinction.

[maverick]

It could be a case of .... can't see the forest for the trees....

Some people seem to think we either will

win the flag next year or need to make sure we do...not a guarantee..... what I am saying is that being short-sighted can come at a cost and there is a risk involved when you do not continue to bring the best young talent in..... a long term negative effect....even if lovett worked (which was very speculative) it still would have hurt long term....and it will take more than 1 more year at the top to win the GF

example
Sydney picked up Hall for Dal....Hall has left (with a cup) we have a dual AA who has another possible 120 games left.....short term it worked for sydney.....long term it has benefited us...Dal may play in 2 flags yet.....IF HALL was delisted before he played a game.....who would have been the winner?????

there is also the effect of breaking up a tight knit group for results....and how that effects group loyalty down the track....we expect players to remain loyal and stick by the jumper even when their income is at stake, yet it seems we think the club has NO responsibility to do the same?????

Supporters even Boo players who gave great service to the jumper in their time.....

anyway that is another argument.....

Fact is
Ball gone for Zero.......LOSS
Lovett gone for Pick #16.......LOSS
Clarke gone for pick #60.....Ridiculous and pointless.
Maguire for pick #90......was he a better gamble than the kid from Sandy....time will tell....maybe that was worth the risk
Peake.....fair enough, as a back up for X if he did not work

I would have preferred
Pick #16, Pick 30, Pick 32, X.Clarke, Pick 63, Pick 77
in the last uncomprimised draft.....considering the next few years we will get zilch

You lost your aguement as soon as you used Hall and Dal as an example. Sydney short term gain won them a flag. We have one won in 112 years. Big deal if in the short term we only win one flag because of a short term recruitment. And dal may win 2. He could also win none. Why use those 2 to prove short term recruitment isnt good for a club.

Agree on this, we have played finals 5 out of the last 6 years and whilst it has been a good ride, its time to deliver, a premiership or bust for mine.

[fingers]

Fingers .......It doesnt mean I am happy about it at all.

In fact I am VERY disapointed at both BALL and LOVETT!!!!!!!!!!

I get that. Me too. It's just so much goes on in a club and so much has to happen and go right to win a flag. There are so many moving parts that coach and his staff have to deal with. Sometimes things don't go the way we would like.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

i dont get how ppl are blaming Ross Lyon , Kevin Sheedy ,James Hird , Mathew LLoyd and that quinn bloke ... lets face it no one could of predicted that somthing like this would of happend im sure if you asked Lovett he wouldnt of predicted this would happen ... but it has happend the club are dealing with it and i trust they know what they are doing .... at the end of the day we were albe to make the g/f last year without Lovett sooo there is no stopping us doing it again ... we traded pick 16 cause we basically saw that the risk for Lovett was a better option then picking some kid and with the signing of Walsh we were happy with that ...

[stinger]

I would claim to be a pacifist, but if any small dick goofball says to me this year, they'd be happy just to make the Grand Final, irrespective of the result, I think I'll fair dinkum go ballistic on them.


Only ONE option, WIN!

what happens if the guy saying that has a big dick....?


.....but ..i agree with you.....winning is the only option......i am heartly sick of attending losing grand finals ffs.....

As it happens both guys actually have small dicks, but please do not ask me as to how I know!

nah...i won't..

[Milton66]

I don't believe there is anyone here who didn't want Lovett to succeed.

Unless there are some mitigating circumstances hat relate to the alleged victim, and the real motivation for her complaint...

I honestly feel that the club should cut it's losses and wish him well.

The last thing we need is this bloody ridiculous distraction heading in to what may very well be one of themost important years in our history.

Much like having Cousins, the last thing we need is a storm clud hanging over our head all year, and a potential time-bomb ticking away.

Let the players get on with doing what they do best.

And if the players are as committed to undoing the result of last year, then they will rise to challenge without Lovett.

I have no doubt there are ample players ready to step up and fill his shoes.

[iwantmeseats]

Blaming RL is pointless and stupid. He is NOT a fricken fortune teller FFS! What gives?

[To the top]

So many people with so much knowlege of things I must confess I have no knowledge about.

The media would have it that we were not the only Club interested in Lovett, and the other Clubs offered more money than did St Kilda.

In regards all other matters, pure speculation.

Perhaps all those assuming what is alleged to have occured should wait on the process in place - and then consider the defence IF there is any need to rely on a defence.


The indefinite suspension is sensible, not the least from the point of view of giving the player the courtesy of evading the media and media questioning during his appearances at training - which is a public event in the normal course.

There is absolutely no need for Lovett or his legal representatives to say anything publically at this stage because what are they going to say?

Obviously Lovett has not agreed the tenure of the complaint as published in the media otherwise charges would have been laid then and there.

So we CAN speculate that, if the complaint is as reported, Lovett has rejected the sequence and/or the event which may be leading to Victoria Police continuing their enquiries.

So let's just all think of our frozen over Mother Country and have a nice long glass of iced water pending Victoria Police actually laying a Charge - and then Lovett and his representatives having the opportunity to defend those Charges.

And think of how Essendon blitzed us at Docklands last season when they ran us absolutely ragged for 3 quarters.

Lyon will have memories of that performance.

[rodgerfox]

It could be a case of .... can't see the forest for the trees....

Some people seem to think we either will

win the flag next year or need to make sure we do...not a guarantee..... what I am saying is that being short-sighted can come at a cost and there is a risk involved when you do not continue to bring the best young talent in..... a long term negative effect....even if lovett worked (which was very speculative) it still would have hurt long term....and it will take more than 1 more year at the top to win the GF

example
Sydney picked up Hall for Dal....Hall has left (with a cup) we have a dual AA who has another possible 120 games left.....short term it worked for sydney.....long term it has benefited us...Dal may play in 2 flags yet.....IF HALL was delisted before he played a game.....who would have been the winner?????

there is also the effect of breaking up a tight knit group for results....and how that effects group loyalty down the track....we expect players to remain loyal and stick by the jumper even when their income is at stake, yet it seems we think the club has NO responsibility to do the same?????

Supporters even Boo players who gave great service to the jumper in their time.....

anyway that is another argument.....

Fact is
Ball gone for Zero.......LOSS
Lovett gone for Pick #16.......LOSS
Clarke gone for pick #60.....Ridiculous and pointless.
Maguire for pick #90......was he a better gamble than the kid from Sandy....time will tell....maybe that was worth the risk
Peake.....fair enough, as a back up for X if he did not work

I would have preferred
Pick #16, Pick 30, Pick 32, X.Clarke, Pick 63, Pick 77
in the last uncomprimised draft.....considering the next few years we will get zilch

You lost your aguement as soon as you used Hall and Dal as an example. Sydney short term gain won them a flag. We have one won in 112 years. Big deal if in the short term we only win one flag because of a short term recruitment. And dal may win 2. He could also win none. Why use those 2 to prove short term recruitment isnt good for a club.

Spot on.

I consider us lucky that Dal is a decent player.

Imagine if Sydney had given us picks 2 and 5 that year.....Right now we wouldnt be on top with that deal......

Sydney getting Hall wasn't a short term thing.

He was a gun, and we wanted him. He was young, and nowhere near his peak.

[rodgerfox]

Well said, both teflon and harveysdisciple.

I WOULD take the long term pain 'cause we want a FLAG! One in 100 yrs isn't good enogh.

I also agree Hall should have been suspended for the d%g act of punching Maguie about 100m off the ball.

Much as you can bag Hall (and I do!) he is a Premiership player , and good luck to him. So far, only 20 past players at St Kilda share that distinction.

But the catch is, you aren't guaranteed a flag.

Hence the risk.

No sane person in the universe wouldn't risk their long term future for a flag - if it was that simple everyone would do it.
The problem is that history tells us that teams who go for the flag depsite their medium to long term future don't actually get the flag and end up regretting their actions.

[asiu]

Actually I remember when I first heard you say it!

Rnd 21 when we were on top of the ladder and premiership favourites!

god your a flogger ... get back to your soggy sao's

(was being thrown out of bondi in round 21 by the monster from the deep for the first time ...everyone knows that)

but seriously , obviously , one doesnt want / need / or even desire losing another granny .....**** me .........i'm so sick of losing ..... so over **** losing .... how could i be happy about it ?

but making the granny , is the first step ... do you dreamers even understand that your sox go on first before your shoes ?

give me a break !!!! and a new reserved seat (the people i sit near are weirdos............jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus