Ranking Exercise

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Again, without doing a full list (as I suspect any list any of us do will vary widely from the internal view of the club), a couple of observations:

- If we've got players like McQualter and Clarke down near 20 (IMO, they'd be higher, but irrespective of that, we're going to have proven players near 20), our week-to-week team can be expected to perform very well.

- The current gap/challenge is a side-effect of our "4 year apprenticeship" approach. We've got quite a few players who have been kicking around the club for 2+ years without building up a significant number of games (Steven, Armo, Miles... even Geary and McEvoy could be included in thsi group). These guys would be expected to graduate now under a traditional development regime.

- The above challenge should be addressed as these guys graduate and new players move into the pipeline. However, if it's going to take 4 years to develop a player, any of these more advanced "prospects" not making the grade will exacerbate the gap.

All in all, our challenge is what you'd expect seeing as our list management is primarily geared at winning a premiership with our current core. Plenty of guys who will challenge for spots come round 1, with a shortage of players who look like they'll spend the next 10 years playing for the Saints.

[SainterK]

OP is pretty much spot on...

Here's my effort (Best, not most important):

1. Riewoldt
2. Hayes
3. Dal Santo
4. Goddard
5. Fisher
6. Montagna
7. Gilbert
8. Jones
9. Koschitzke
10. Lovett
11. Gram
12. Milne
13. Gardiner
14. Blake
15. Schneider
16. Baker
17. Ray
18. Dawson
19. McQualter
20. King
21. McEvoy
22. Clarke
23. Geary
24. Armitage
25. Dempster
26. Smith
27. Peake
28. Eddy
29. Gwilt
30. Pattison
31. Steven
32. Lynch
33. Stanley
34. Miles
35. Heyne
36. Johnson
37. Winmar
38. Smith
39. Cahill

I reakon our top 7 is defiente though, and after that there is a little gap. Also hard to rate where Armitage, Geary, Steven and McEvoy are as you know they have great potential, but have yet to really do much. Also I probably rated Smith a little low, but if you can't get on the park you're not much use.
Also think people are underating Kosi & Milne. Milne made the AA squad and Kosi got around 12 brownlow votes which is very good for a forward and was only behind Roo, Brown and Fev in the Brownlow voting. Plus again apart from them 3, had pretty much scored as many goals as the other forwards in the competition.

if its best, jonesy cant be in the top 10 - shocking skills.
in most important he is easily in the top 10 though.

Jones didn't just attempt to, he effectively eliminated the oppositions most damaging player week in week out....I think he also improved immensely in other aspects of his game, I am happy with him so high.

I think McQualter seems a little low for mine, but it's hard to shuffle anymore than has already been done.

[borderbarry]

Well taking GF performances into account, Lenny should be 1st (3rd in the Brownlow this year) and Grammy should sneak into our top 10. He was best afield when we won the pre season comp too. Performs for the big ones.

[borderbarry]

If based on 2009, why is Lovett so high? He has never had a kick for us yet. May as well have Tommy Walsh in the 1st 18.

[spert]

I think that those players who can perform at the highest competitive level in a Grand Final are right up in the top 10. Gram and Jones played great games and are easily in my top 10. NDS is nearer 10 as he still needs a bigger motor. Gilbert is not yet in my 10, but could be in the next two seasons, same for Raph.

[SaintSimmo]

1. Riewoldt
2. Hayes
3. Goddard
4. Dal Santo
5. Fisher
6. Gilbert
7. Montagna
8. Jones
9. Koschitzke
10. Baker
11. Gram
12. Lovett
13. Blake
14. Gardiner
15. Dawson
16. McQualter
17. Schneider
18. Milne
19. Ray
20. Armitage
21 Geary
22 Mcevoy

23. Dempster
24. Clarke
25. Gwilt
26. Eddy
27. King
28. Steven
29. Miles
30. Lynch

the rest after that...

spot on in the first 22 but i would rate steven, miles and eddy better then gwilt and dempster.

[Spinner]

If based on 2009, why is Lovett so high? He has never had a kick for us yet. May as well have Tommy Walsh in the 1st 18.

Because Lovett is a good player, and thats where I rate him compared to others on our list.

If Gary Ablett came to St Kilda, wouldn't you still put him near the top even though he hadnt played a game as yet?

[Moods]

If based on 2009, why is Lovett so high? He has never had a kick for us yet. May as well have Tommy Walsh in the 1st 18.

Because Lovett is a good player, and thats where I rate him compared to others on our list.

If Gary Ablett came to St Kilda, wouldn't you still put him near the top even though he hadnt played a game as yet?

Lovett's never finished in a top 10 of a bomber B&F either spinner. And we're a far better team than the bombers. Gary Ablett however is acknowledged as if not the best, then in the top 3 best players in the comp. I'd slot in him in just behind Riewoldt

IN fairness, I agree mostly with your rankings - and probably with where you have Lovett. I certainly hope Lovett will be in our best 13 players next year anyway. Hate to give up a first rounder if he wasn't.

[Winmarvellous]

Agree with most bar Kosi. Wouldn't rate him in the top 10. Closer to 15. Most overrated and incosistent player on our list.

[TassieJones]

broken into ability groups

1. Hayes
2. Riewoldt
3. Goddard
4. Montagna
5. Dal Santo
6. Fisher
7. Gilbert

8. Lovett
9. Gram

10. Jones
11. Blake
12. Ray
13. Schneider

14. Milne
15. Koschitzke

16. Gardiner
17. Baker

18. McQualter
19. Dawson
20. Armitage
21. Smith

22. King
23. McEvoy

24. Dempster
25. Clarke
26. Gwilt
27. Geary
28. Peake
29. Steven
30. Eddy
31. Pattison

Then the guys yet to debut I haven't seen much of

[TassieJones]

Agree with most bar Kosi. Wouldn't rate him in the top 10. Closer to 15. Most overrated and incosistent player on our list.

read this after i did my post, agree completely. talent wise he is in the same league as dal santo and goddard etc. but performance wise he is nowhere near it. blake is just one example of a guy with nowhere near kosi's talent who out performs him on a regular basis

[Con Gorozidis]

If based on 2009, why is Lovett so high? He has never had a kick for us yet. May as well have Tommy Walsh in the 1st 18.

cos he playeed at afl level in 08/09. hence his performances count.
tommy walsh - 0 afl games. lovett 100+

[Milan Faletic]

This was very difficult but i thought I'd give it a try.

The bottom half of the list was harder because I reckon there will be players that will improve like Steven, Dempster, Peake, Smith, Walsh and Pattison.

I think while Gram had a great GF, his kicking was not good this season and will improve. Farren Ray will need to back up this season. Milne will need to rise for one last big finals series. Kosi has to deliver or he may find Walsh and McEvoy pass him.

Clinton Jones will get better and become an elite player, as could Lovett.

Zac must back up this season.

Armo could end up top 10 by the end of the year.

1. Riewoldt
2. Hayes
3. Goddard
4. Jones
5. Montagna
6. Dal Santo
7. Gilbert
8. Fisher
9. Blake
10. Dawson
11. Gardiner
12. Baker
13. Gram
14. Ray
15. Milne
16. Schneider
17. Koschitzke
18. Lovett
19. Clarke
20. McQualter
21. McEvoy
22. Armitage
23. Geary
24. King
25. Eddy
26. Gwilt
27. Dempster
28. Peake
29. Steven
30. Smith
31. Pattison
32. Walsh

[saintlee]

If based on 2009, why is Lovett so high? He has never had a kick for us yet. May as well have Tommy Walsh in the 1st 18.

cos he playeed at afl level in 08/09. hence his performances count.
tommy walsh - 0 afl games. lovett 100+

Lovett has only played 88 games actually.

[CaptainRiewoldt]

1 - Riewoldt
2 - Hayes
3 - Dal Santo
4 - Goddard
5 - Montagna
6 - Fisher
9 - Gilbert
11 - Gram
8 - Lovett
12 - Jones
13 - Gardiner
15 - Milne
16 - Schneider
26 - Smith, Jesse (fully Fit)
7 - Koschitzke
14 - Dawson
10 - Baker
17 - McQualter
18 - Blake
20 - Ray
24 - Dempster
27 - Armitage
25 - Geary
19 - Clarke
23 - McEvoy
21 - King
22 - Peake
31 - Steven
32 - Lynch
28 - Gwilt
29 - Eddy
33 - Miles
30 - Pattison
34 - Stanley
35 - Heyne
36 - Cahill
37 - Smith, Alistair
38 - Winmar
39 - Johnson

40-Walsh?? I reckon he could be top 18.

Geez seems you needed some help. Gram at 11?? Peake 22? Bakes top 10 what is it 2004? come on! Here's what I reckon from your list... given all fit. Their value now and what it should be come start of season

[PJ Sainter]

Without regurgitating the lists already given on this thread, I would argue that we have around 24 players of proven AFL quality or better, and a further 5 or so (McEvoy, Geary, Gwilt and Armitage) on the fringe. We also have Steven - who looks likely but hasn't had quite enough of a go yet to convince me, and Eddy - who I don't reckon is of AFL quality but better judges such as Lyon think differently.

That gives us around 30 players who seem clearly up to it at this stage. Other clubs have more than 30, and we did in recent times. So we are a bit light-on for depth, but probably ok for the next year or two.

Sure, our top 6 or so players (Riewoldt, Hayes, Montagna, Dal, Fisher and Goddard) are a long way above the rest. But the situation is the same at every other club: it's a function of the salary cap.

I'm more bothered that - if you add Steven and Geary to the list of those who are yet to play AFL football - we have a dozen players who were recruited with draft picks below the top 10 (or were elevated rookies) and from whom the club does not seem to be expecting all that much at this stage. Even Steven and Geary, who have shown a fair bit, are no certainties to play more than a handful of AFL games in 2010.

The club demonstrates that it is not that confident about these fringe players by bringing in more and more recycled players from other clubs.

I'm not a great fan of this approach to building a list (which is reminiscent of the approach taken by the Swans until recently). I'm sure it's going to pose some problems for us down the track, but - unless our injury situation reverts to that of 2005-07 - I don't expect it to pose any problems during 2010, when we will once again be a big chance of securing our second premiership.

Who are these other clubs that have more than 30 players on their lists who are clearly up to it? I can't think of any, including Geelong - who showed this year that with a few injuries they were as vulnerable as anyone.

You then question the clubs methodology of recruiting players, but state that the club is a huge chance to win the 2010 flag. I would argue that our recruiting is aimed at short term success - and why not? We proved this year that we are a fingernail away from winning the thing, why not go for it? If the saints win the flag next year, I'm pretty sure the supporters will tolerate a few down years. If they don't, well at least we had a crack.

With the drfat picks that we had in a weak draft - why try and load up with kids that no-one rates too highly.

Well said. The AFL Socialist System prevents any team from having 30 gun players on their lists.

So, 10 guns, 10 goods and 10 potentials is about as good as you could hope for[/quote]