Ross on 3AW tonight -

[joffaboy]

Or do some truly believe that the Coach (any coach) will overule the fitness staff and send a player back on the field whom they deem not ready to play?

You mean like ordering the fitness staff to get bj back on the field with a broken collarbone?

[Spinner]

Ross Lyon Interview:

-> Drafting
Mentioned at the start that they expected to take three kids in the rookie draft.

-> Patterson
Questioned initially why they drafted patterson. Reasoning was that King had some knee and shoulder issues, and Gardiner was up and going but still fragile. Stanley is exciting but raw and McGrath is a few years off. Basically is was insuring McEvoy had a decent partner if SK and MG went down during the year,

-> Jess Smith
Mentioned that our 2.5 physios and 2.5 docters had tremendous faith in getting him up. Spoke about increasing the range of movement for the lad, in which the team was confident in doing. Mentioned that he was keen for three kids, but they were confident they could get Will Johnson later, and the staff detailed that the only other options were more rookie worthy at 60.

-> Luke Ball
Asked plainly why had Luke Ball decided to leave. Didn't answer the question.
Detailed that he was a required player, offered 350,000+ a year (3 years - I believe it must have been performance based as well)....Responded to time on ground issue that he was averaging 80's for the first half of the season. Re-iterated that he was a required player, and he decided to leave.

-> Lovett
Asked if they had spoken to him as it was not the best start to a new football club - Ross answered by saying that LH, NR and himself had spoken to him (I think he was referring to pre-trading for him though) and that they obtained many references. Basically brushed over the issue expressing that there were not criminal abuse or substance abuse issue that they were aware of.

Interview cut short for ads.

Dont agree with someof that Spinner.

Re Ball - The question from BT was suggestive we didnt want Ball etc - Lyon had to IMHO quickly stop that rot (BT often has a crack at us - this guy also said Clint Jones was not up to it as an AFL player...). Shame the other clowns started talking cause I got the sense Taylor was saying in the background that there was more to this....either way Ross shut him up with facts with respect to the game time cr@p.

IMHO there is clearly an issue between Ball and Lyon (Balls comment about saying more when the dust settles was telling for me) - I care not. Its TEAM Im interested in....one in all in - good enough for Dal Santo/Milne to suck up a bit of tough love from the coach then it should also be for Ball. The days of prima donna players running our club and the senipor coaches agenda are over and thank frk for that.

As for Lovett - I dont think he brushed over the issue - the issues with Lovett is with him as a person (not just one night) and includes his previous ordinary record. I think Lyon had the right and infact needed to address our due diligence in taking him on and I thought he did that well (no doubt would have had more to say if the ad break hadnt cut in).

He goes allright Ross - doesnt get the media respect he should (Eade for example is pandered to by them) but I dont think Ross gives a shyte.

Just to clarify, RL answered/responded well....But didnt answer the question.

[Mr Magic]

The comment from Ross Lyon re Luke BALL having less game time was not his call, is not meant to validate Ross or excuse Luke for leaving. Simply I am asking why Ross is being blamed for Luke's GF lack of game time, and whose responsibility would it have been not to have played him longer? The midfield coach? If so why are we attacking Ross and not the midfield coach?

I believe RL gave the answer in the same speech you are quoting. The fitness staff are responsible for teh rotations.

The Coaches may ask them if a particular player is ready to go, but the final call is up to teh fitness staff.

[Mr Magic]

Or do some truly believe that the Coach (any coach) will overule the fitness staff and send a player back on the field whom they deem not ready to play?

You mean like ordering the fitness staff to get bj back on the field with a broken collarbone?

But Joffa, how do you know that the Coaches ordered the fitness staff to send BJ (or anybody else) back on, if they were not capable of playing?

I would think there would be very little chance that the medico/fitness guys would allow any player they deem unable to get back out there, despite the wishes of the coaches.

This is, IMO, the biggest single difference in the coaching regimes between GT and RL.

GT took on most if not all decisions on himself
RL seems to allow those designated to run various aspects of the Club to make their own decisions, under his name.

[joffaboy]

Or do some truly believe that the Coach (any coach) will overule the fitness staff and send a player back on the field whom they deem not ready to play?

You mean like ordering the fitness staff to get bj back on the field with a broken collarbone?

But Joffa, how do you know that the Coaches ordered the fitness staff to send BJ (or anybody else) back on, if they were not capable of playing?

I would think there would be very little chance that the medico/fitness guys would allow any player they deem unable to get back out there, despite the wishes of the coaches.

This is, IMO, the biggest single difference in the coaching regimes between GT and RL.

GT took on most if not all decisions on himself
RL seems to allow those designated to run various aspects of the Club to make their own decisions, under his name.

Because the quote from a very reliable source told me RL said "I dont care what you do, get him back out there" after he was told bj had a broken nose and collarbone.

[asiu]

on grand final day

the coach would say it , the player would think it , the fitness dudes would know it and the supporter would hope for it

"I dont care what you do, get him back out there"

i'd certainly effen say it



as we all know , sh!t for second

[matrix]

pain is short


memories are long

[asiu]

oh yea

GT took on most if not all decisions on himself

good on him

where were the rest of the chicken hearts ?

[Spinner]

Or do some truly believe that the Coach (any coach) will overule the fitness staff and send a player back on the field whom they deem not ready to play?

You mean like ordering the fitness staff to get bj back on the field with a broken collarbone?

But Joffa, how do you know that the Coaches ordered the fitness staff to send BJ (or anybody else) back on, if they were not capable of playing?

I would think there would be very little chance that the medico/fitness guys would allow any player they deem unable to get back out there, despite the wishes of the coaches.

This is, IMO, the biggest single difference in the coaching regimes between GT and RL.

GT took on most if not all decisions on himself
RL seems to allow those designated to run various aspects of the Club to make their own decisions, under his name.

Because the quote from a very reliable source told me RL said "I dont care what you do, get him back out there" after he was told bj had a broken nose and collarbone.

Well thats either coming from the fitness staff or the assistant coaches within that conversation - Or BJ himself.

Where does the source originate?

[mastersaint]

pain is short


memories are long

I whole heartedly agree matrix, nice one.............

[sunsaint]

Because the quote from a very reliable source told me RL said "I dont care what you do, get him back out there" after he was told bj had a broken nose and collarbone.

Thanks Joffaboy for putting this out there, I was attacked just for merely intimating there was more to the Lyon story than just 50% game time, etc etc etc etc
And I dont understand why you cant raise stuff like this without being labelled anti Lyon, anti club, anti StKilda.

[Mr Magic]

Because the quote from a very reliable source told me RL said "I dont care what you do, get him back out there" after he was told bj had a broken nose and collarbone.

Thanks Joffaboy for putting this out there, I was attacked just for merely intimating there was more to the Lyon story than just 50% game time, etc etc etc etc
And I dont understand why you cant raise stuff like this without being labelled anti Lyon, anti club, anti StKilda.

Who's labelling you that over this?

I'm still asking the same question that nobody seems to want to answer.

Do you believe Ball's gametime (including the GF) was limited to what it was for reasons other than 'fitness'.

[sunsaint]

nice sidestep and
yes

[Mr Magic]

nice sidestep and
yes

What sidestep
and are you stating that Ball was deliberately played for the game time he was becasue of a reason other than his physical fitness?


Are you seriously suggesting that a coach who wants to win the grand final will:-
select a player he doesn't think will perform
start him on the ground in the middle
and then deliberately play him, harming the team's chance of winning.

Seriously, is that what you are saying?
I'm repeating the question because I'm incredulous that any grown up person could/would actually believe such a scenario.

Please enlighten us to the facts you know about this to enable you to get to the point where you are prepared to state such a position.

[saintnick12]

Borderbarry - absolutely correct. He admitted that his game time was a mistake and actually palmed responsibility to others. I'm surprised no-one in the media ran with that.

I've heard other people tell me that 'quote' about Lyon, if true I'm a little disappointed in Ross as I believe him to be a person to take full responsibility for what happens in the coach's box and with the team. Even if it was an oversight, I would expect him to simply admit that that was one of many errors made by players and coach on GF day...some or all of may have been a factor in losing that day.

Still I trust those mistakes will be worked on and not repeated, the review done and on to the planning for our assault in 2010.

Even if you acceot the 'quote' at face value, how is it turned into a criticism of Lyon?
SUrely everyone can accept that the fitness staff determine if a player is fit enough to return to the field?
Or do some truly believe that the Coach (any coach) will overule the fitness staff and send a player back on the field whom they deem not ready to play?

I'm really struggling to understand how this 'quote' somehow validates Ball's decision to leave/quit/desert the Saints.

Are posters stating that it's ok for him to do that because the Coach didn't play him more in the GF and after the game said that it was a mistake not to play him 'for another 6 minute burst' on the ground?
That's sufficient reason for Ball to leave?

The one thing we have to remember about this quote from Ross Lyon, is that it was pretty much an off the cuff remark at the post game press conference which was what...less than an hour after the game - the biggest, most important, most stressful of his career. Remember the articles we have read about the scenes from the rooms. Then he has come up to do this required interview. I think he can be forgiven for some semantics or comments in that situation. Yes thats his job to be able to cope with that situation, but it must have been the hardest thing to do. And then to be asked about Luke Ball again by the media who were just obsessed with this issue. I think we have all perhaps read too much into the comment. I don't think it came across the way he meant it and I don't think he was intentionally deflecting blame. When you take it in the context of a 10 min interview so close to the end of the game. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be held accountable for things that I said in those minutes after the game . I think he did a great job of speaking well under the circumstances. I think at that point he was almost thinking out loud. Yeah...maybe they could have used Ball for one more burst. Yeah. Maybe there were other changes he wished he'd made...but no one asked about those.

[Teflon]

Ross Lyon Interview:

-> Drafting
Mentioned at the start that they expected to take three kids in the rookie draft.

-> Patterson
Questioned initially why they drafted patterson. Reasoning was that King had some knee and shoulder issues, and Gardiner was up and going but still fragile. Stanley is exciting but raw and McGrath is a few years off. Basically is was insuring McEvoy had a decent partner if SK and MG went down during the year,

-> Jess Smith
Mentioned that our 2.5 physios and 2.5 docters had tremendous faith in getting him up. Spoke about increasing the range of movement for the lad, in which the team was confident in doing. Mentioned that he was keen for three kids, but they were confident they could get Will Johnson later, and the staff detailed that the only other options were more rookie worthy at 60.

-> Luke Ball
Asked plainly why had Luke Ball decided to leave. Didn't answer the question.
Detailed that he was a required player, offered 350,000+ a year (3 years - I believe it must have been performance based as well)....Responded to time on ground issue that he was averaging 80's for the first half of the season. Re-iterated that he was a required player, and he decided to leave.

-> Lovett
Asked if they had spoken to him as it was not the best start to a new football club - Ross answered by saying that LH, NR and himself had spoken to him (I think he was referring to pre-trading for him though) and that they obtained many references. Basically brushed over the issue expressing that there were not criminal abuse or substance abuse issue that they were aware of.

Interview cut short for ads.

Dont agree with someof that Spinner.

Re Ball - The question from BT was suggestive we didnt want Ball etc - Lyon had to IMHO quickly stop that rot (BT often has a crack at us - this guy also said Clint Jones was not up to it as an AFL player...). Shame the other clowns started talking cause I got the sense Taylor was saying in the background that there was more to this....either way Ross shut him up with facts with respect to the game time cr@p.

IMHO there is clearly an issue between Ball and Lyon (Balls comment about saying more when the dust settles was telling for me) - I care not. Its TEAM Im interested in....one in all in - good enough for Dal Santo/Milne to suck up a bit of tough love from the coach then it should also be for Ball. The days of prima donna players running our club and the senipor coaches agenda are over and thank frk for that.

As for Lovett - I dont think he brushed over the issue - the issues with Lovett is with him as a person (not just one night) and includes his previous ordinary record. I think Lyon had the right and infact needed to address our due diligence in taking him on and I thought he did that well (no doubt would have had more to say if the ad break hadnt cut in).

He goes allright Ross - doesnt get the media respect he should (Eade for example is pandered to by them) but I dont think Ross gives a shyte.

Just to clarify, RL answered/responded well....But didnt answer the question.

If the coach says Luke was required but Luke wanted to leave....isnt that answering the question?

Im confused unless ofcourse he was meant detail in public all Luke's shortcomings.........I mean whose got that time....

[Spinner]

Ross Lyon Interview:

-> Drafting
Mentioned at the start that they expected to take three kids in the rookie draft.

-> Patterson
Questioned initially why they drafted patterson. Reasoning was that King had some knee and shoulder issues, and Gardiner was up and going but still fragile. Stanley is exciting but raw and McGrath is a few years off. Basically is was insuring McEvoy had a decent partner if SK and MG went down during the year,

-> Jess Smith
Mentioned that our 2.5 physios and 2.5 docters had tremendous faith in getting him up. Spoke about increasing the range of movement for the lad, in which the team was confident in doing. Mentioned that he was keen for three kids, but they were confident they could get Will Johnson later, and the staff detailed that the only other options were more rookie worthy at 60.

-> Luke Ball
Asked plainly why had Luke Ball decided to leave. Didn't answer the question.
Detailed that he was a required player, offered 350,000+ a year (3 years - I believe it must have been performance based as well)....Responded to time on ground issue that he was averaging 80's for the first half of the season. Re-iterated that he was a required player, and he decided to leave.

-> Lovett
Asked if they had spoken to him as it was not the best start to a new football club - Ross answered by saying that LH, NR and himself had spoken to him (I think he was referring to pre-trading for him though) and that they obtained many references. Basically brushed over the issue expressing that there were not criminal abuse or substance abuse issue that they were aware of.

Interview cut short for ads.

Dont agree with someof that Spinner.

Re Ball - The question from BT was suggestive we didnt want Ball etc - Lyon had to IMHO quickly stop that rot (BT often has a crack at us - this guy also said Clint Jones was not up to it as an AFL player...). Shame the other clowns started talking cause I got the sense Taylor was saying in the background that there was more to this....either way Ross shut him up with facts with respect to the game time cr@p.

IMHO there is clearly an issue between Ball and Lyon (Balls comment about saying more when the dust settles was telling for me) - I care not. Its TEAM Im interested in....one in all in - good enough for Dal Santo/Milne to suck up a bit of tough love from the coach then it should also be for Ball. The days of prima donna players running our club and the senipor coaches agenda are over and thank frk for that.

As for Lovett - I dont think he brushed over the issue - the issues with Lovett is with him as a person (not just one night) and includes his previous ordinary record. I think Lyon had the right and infact needed to address our due diligence in taking him on and I thought he did that well (no doubt would have had more to say if the ad break hadnt cut in).

He goes allright Ross - doesnt get the media respect he should (Eade for example is pandered to by them) but I dont think Ross gives a shyte.

Just to clarify, RL answered/responded well....But didnt answer the question.

If the coach says Luke was required but Luke wanted to leave....isnt that answering the question?

Im confused unless ofcourse he was meant detail in public all Luke's shortcomings.........I mean whose got that time....

Yeh had a re-listen.

Question was, "what was Luke Balls deficiency, the reason he wasn't in the plan."

Lyon partly answered, stating he was in the plan - My interpretation was that BT (was is BT) wanted to know why he was dropped, and probably would have reworded the last part if given another chance.

[Wigsy]

The quote was also live on 3aw mid-week after the GF.