best 22 for 2010 if fully fit

[groupie1]

Jesse!!!!

Ill give it a quick go.



FB: Ray Dawson Baker
HB: Smith Fisher Gilbert
C: Gram Hayes Montagna
HF: Goddard Riewoldt Lovett
FF: McQualter Koschitzke Schnieder
R: Gardiner Dal Santo Armitage
INT: Geary McEvoy Clarke Jones

No guernsey for Blake?


Looking good!

[borderbarry]

I notice not too many of our resident selectors are giving any credit to Tommy Walsh. Read Animal Enclosure's thread, "My chat with the President."

[SaintBot]

I notice not too many of our resident selectors are giving any credit to Tommy Walsh. Read Animal Enclosure's thread, "My chat with the President."

You're over your head if you seriously think Tommy is even close to top 22 material just yet.

It's all good and well to be impressing at training but gaining a sense of the game and things like where to run, when to attack, when to man up, etc arn't learnt over summer - he will need at the very least half a year in the VFL to pick these up, more likely perhaps one or even two seasons.

Give the guy some time.

[skeptic]

B Baker, Dawson, Blake
HB Gilbert, S.Fisher, Clarke
C Montagna, Hayes, Dal Santo
HF Lovett, Riewoldt, Goddard
F Schnieder, Kosi, McQualter
R Gardiner, Jones, Armitage
Int McEvoy, Gram, Ray, Steven

Emg Geary, Eddy, Dempster

[borderbarry]

Gram on the bench? Probably our best in the Grand Final, or close to it. Otherwise not bad.

[borderbarry]

And I am sorry, I did not realize these teams were selected for Round 1. I feel sure Tommy Walsh will be in the team before years end. I am sure Jimmy Stynes did'nt play one or two seasons in the seconds. Dont forget, this kid is no green horn, having played in a winning All Ireland competition team. He is used to playing with men. He just needs to adjust his game and learn the rules.

[saintbob]

B: Baker Dawson Gilbert

HB: Gram Blake Fisher

C: Lovett Hayes Montagna

HF: Peake Riewoldt Schnieder

F: Steven Koschitzke Goddard

R: Gardiner Dal Santo Jones

Int : McEvoy, Ray, Smith, Dempster

Emerg: King, Clarke, Geary[/i]

[Milan Faletic]

OP leaves Steven, Geary, Eddy, Peake, Clarke, Pattison, Dempster, Miles, Heyne and Walsh out of side.

Not necessarily disagreeing but IMHO one, two or even four of those players could force their way in.

At the end of 2008, most of us would have had X.Clarke, Ball, Max and Goose in our best 22 but 12 months later they are gone and players like McQualter, Dawson and Raph Clarke stepped up. I think that some more will step up, some will get injured and our best 22 at the end of 2010 will be different.

[Ghost Like]

All those sides look impressive, I must admit though I still have a wry smile to when I think back to the team named in round 1 in 2009 & reading all the naysayer's doom & gloom comments...now 9 months on & only a couple of those names have changed plus the addition of some new blood & we're literally bubbling with anticipation...it's great!

Here's my take:

Fisher Dawson Baker

Smith Blake Gilbert

Gram Hayes Ray

Lovett Riewoldt Goddard

Schneider Kosi Steven

Gardiner Dal Santo Montagna

I/C: McEvoy McQualter Jones Armitage

EM: Clarke Milne Lynch

[JABBER]

Tommy Walsh is a international rookie who could be a great pick up.
Can he play as a int. rookie or do we have to upgrade him.
After the grand final i dropped Milne out for Steven Milney deserves to be there as many players have bad games in grand finals.
I Remember back in 1993 Greg Williams had a bad grand final against Essendon but 2 years later kicked alot of goals and won the Norm smith medal in 1995.

I Beleive todays paper when they wrote our last recruits will be much better of next year .
And Brett Peake is a very good player but i don't know who will they drop for him. Raph Clarke and Sean Dempster are unlucky but i just rate J Smith in front of them.
I think we got the best list now but we should keep an eye on Brisbane and Hawthorn

[To the top]

We need some generational change because that is the way of the world.

Hence I look for a couple of our highly touted Draft Picks of recent years to progress to regular AFL football - and particularly Lynch and Steven.

Lynch because our forward zone of Koschitzke and Riewioldt with support from Schnieder, Milne, McQualter and either of Dempster, Gwilt and the others tried puts too much reliance on Koschitzke and Riewoldt as the target forwards - Lynch was a First Round pick and has the size and the attributes to sit between Koschitzke and Riewoldt and then Schnieder, Lovett and Steven as the 3 buzzing, dangerous, leg speed, ultra high intensity opportunists and harassers.

It is time to find out.

Steven played well against Hawthorn and shows plenty.

You can not leave these kids in the VFL forever - and after an appenticeship of a couple of years we really have to give them the chance.

Walsh would be a credit to all involved if he progressed to Senior footy in a Grand Finalist team in Year 1.

From there, I would expect both players traded for to be ear-marked for Senior selection.

They cover a deficiency - and that deficiency is described in the Club's remarks on Miles.

The comment on Miles says he is ready - and it gives a telling analysis of the type of player we are seeking to develop and the type of player we can expect to see wearing a St Kilda jumper in 2010 and onwards.

And Smith carries huge wraps IF he can get onto the park and then resume AFL footy.

Pattinson is back up to Gardiner and King given the ruck apprentices, McEvoy, Stanley and McGrath are still in the very early stages of their careers and have a lot to learn as ruckmen.

He gives cover for King and Gardiner being rested thru the season including for inter-state games.

These 2 are so vital they have to be given every reasonable protection to make sure they are firing come September.

In terms of interchange bench, being named there counts for nothing because 3 of our mid-fielders are going to start on the bench.

The media, being the media, are about Ball cutting St Kilda up versus St Kilda.

From our point of view, I would like to see Miles deliver what he has been described as possessing - and, at Docklands, I would back him in.

In the side I would like to see on the park, I ask where would Ball slot in and in place of who?


I do not see a position and that is the problem Ball had.

Bit like Aussie Jones being isolated and cut up in the last quarter of a Preliminary Final, consequently seeing the writing on the wall and retiring whilst, to the naked eye, he still had a couple of years in him.

In assessing Baker and Blake, the memory of Jones is still with me.

[plugger66]

Have you seen Miles play because I did at least 6 times this year and he is far from ready IMO. His kicking is ordinary and he hardly gets it. Plenty of better options down back than him. I would expect the new guy on the scene this year to be Steven.

[To the top]

Plugger, go to the Club's Official Web Site and look for the profiles on the players who were Drafted, including Dawson and Miles.

Then read what is said about Miles.

You will also note that an ankle injury precluded Miles from being included in the side over the later stages of 2009 - and the very strong inference is he would otherwise have been chosen.


We do have our differences with the Club's appraisal of certain footballers, as measured by certain players getting a game and others not.

My beef over years has been Milne, and whilst it is now acknowledged that his defensive efforts have improved (from ziltch), they have not improved to the level where we did not need to cover his lack of expertise by including a specialist defensive small forward in McQualter.

We are just not strong enough to afford Milne such cover.

Hence Lovett - and maybe Peake, but I suspect Peake will be utilised in defence on the types such as Lovett because we do not have such a defender on our books except for Gram and he is too valuable elsewhere.


I also think that 2 of our veterans, Baker and Blake, are a little too static and my reading of the Club commentary on Miles indicates the Club may identify this as well.

You may think Miles ordinary because of what you have seen at VFL level, but VFL footy is different to AFL footy across a range of criteria.

The Club obviously think differently to you and, in this instance, I am happy to read the Club appraisal and not only because of what it says about Miles but because of what it says about the appraisal of players.

It is the era of players who can run lines - whether you be 194cm or 175cm.

[Saintersss]

Plugger, go to the Club's Official Web Site and look for the profiles on the players who were Drafted, including Dawson and Miles.

Then read what is said about Miles.

You will also note that an ankle injury precluded Miles from being included in the side over the later stages of 2009 - and the very strong inference is he would otherwise have been chosen.


We do have our differences with the Club's appraisal of certain footballers, as measured by certain players getting a game and others not.

My beef over years has been Milne, and whilst it is now acknowledged that his defensive efforts have improved (from ziltch), they have not improved to the level where we did not need to cover his lack of expertise by including a specialist defensive small forward in McQualter.

We are just not strong enough to afford Milne such cover.

Hence Lovett - and maybe Peake, but I suspect Peake will be utilised in defence on the types such as Lovett because we do not have such a defender on our books except for Gram and he is too valuable elsewhere.


I also think that 2 of our veterans, Baker and Blake, are a little too static and my reading of the Club commentary on Miles indicates the Club may identify this as well.

You may think Miles ordinary because of what you have seen at VFL level, but VFL footy is different to AFL footy across a range of criteria.

The Club obviously think differently to you and, in this instance, I am happy to read the Club appraisal and not only because of what it says about Miles but because of what it says about the appraisal of players.

It is the era of players who can run lines - whether you be 194cm or 175cm.

My god do you even know what you are talking about? You talk more crap than anyone here on this site. Just cause you write 10 paragraphs each post doesn't mean you know what you are talking about.

Of course AFL is different to VFL, it is a lot harder and if you are struggling in the VFL, there is very little chance you will do well in AFL, in fact I don't think there is any chance.
Why should Blake and Baker be replaced? Blake was top 10 in our B&F again, I don't think that means the club thinks he is too 'static'. And they will especially not be replaced by Peake who is an unaccountable player who struggled to maintain a spot at Fremantle.
Plus we do not need to just play kids because they have been at the VFL too long, they will get a game when their forms permits and if good enough will cement a spot. We are not on the bottom of the ladder so we can not just give games to them, we are here to win a premiership.

[plugger66]

Plugger, go to the Club's Official Web Site and look for the profiles on the players who were Drafted, including Dawson and Miles.

Then read what is said about Miles.

You will also note that an ankle injury precluded Miles from being included in the side over the later stages of 2009 - and the very strong inference is he would otherwise have been chosen.


We do have our differences with the Club's appraisal of certain footballers, as measured by certain players getting a game and others not.

My beef over years has been Milne, and whilst it is now acknowledged that his defensive efforts have improved (from ziltch), they have not improved to the level where we did not need to cover his lack of expertise by including a specialist defensive small forward in McQualter.

We are just not strong enough to afford Milne such cover.

Hence Lovett - and maybe Peake, but I suspect Peake will be utilised in defence on the types such as Lovett because we do not have such a defender on our books except for Gram and he is too valuable elsewhere.


I also think that 2 of our veterans, Baker and Blake, are a little too static and my reading of the Club commentary on Miles indicates the Club may identify this as well.

You may think Miles ordinary because of what you have seen at VFL level, but VFL footy is different to AFL footy across a range of criteria.

The Club obviously think differently to you and, in this instance, I am happy to read the Club appraisal and not only because of what it says about Miles but because of what it says about the appraisal of players.

It is the era of players who can run lines - whether you be 194cm or 175cm.

My god do you even know what you are talking about? You talk more crap than anyone here on this site. Just cause you write 10 paragraphs each post doesn't mean you know what you are talking about.

Of course AFL is different to VFL, it is a lot harder and if you are struggling in the VFL, there is very little chance you will do well in AFL, in fact I don't think there is any chance.
Why should Blake and Baker be replaced? Blake was top 10 in our B&F again, I don't think that means the club thinks he is too 'static'. And they will especially not be replaced by Peake who is an unaccountable player who struggled to maintain a spot at Fremantle.
Plus we do not need to just play kids because they have been at the VFL too long, they will get a game when their forms permits and if good enough will cement a spot. We are not on the bottom of the ladder so we can not just give games to them, we are here to win a premiership.

I have used that exact same first paragraph to this poster before. He says go to the Saints website and see what they have written about Miles. I am yet to see our website write on any player that they are no good. I am pretty sure this season they would have given Fisher, LJ and Howard a wrap and none of them are at the club anymore. I hope Miles can play but IMO he will struggle from what I have seen not read. Over the top have you seen Miles play?

[PJ]

Just cause you write 10 paragraphs each post doesn't mean you know what you are talking about.

I suggest you take a bit of a look at your own posts. I'm pretty sure that none of us here are on the St.Kilda selection commitee or perhaps you can enlighten me as to your football pedigree.

[Saintersss]

Just cause you write 10 paragraphs each post doesn't mean you know what you are talking about.

I suggest you take a bit of a look at your own posts. I'm pretty sure that none of us here are on the St.Kilda selection commitee or perhaps you can enlighten me as to your football pedigree.

Just took a look at my own posts, I talk crap like all of us here but no where near as much as to the top. But its nice to know you take a interest in me even though you don't get the facts right.

[skeptic]

well some people like to post opinions... other people just criticise w/o actually contributing to the topic.
Some forumites are serial offenders in that category.

(Yes I get the hypocrisy in that I'm doing that now too but I feel the need to go into bat for some1 actually discussing the topic)

[Quixote]

OK bugger it here's my team:

B: Baker Dawson Ray
HB: Blake Fisher Gilbert
C: Lovett Hayes Montagna
HF: Goddard Roo McQ
F: Steven Kosi Schnieder
Foll: Gardy Dal Santo Jones
Bench: Armitage McEvoy Gram Smith

Emg: Geary Milne Clarke

[To the top]

"He probably would have played senior footy late in the year but got injured with an ankle".

It may have been THE match versus Hawthorn (either Miles or Maguire may have got the run instead of the now departed Begley in that game) when we rested a few or it may have been on a more permanent basis.

We can only speculate on the specifics of Drain's comment regarding how close he was to senior selection and under what circumstances.

He has now been up-graded to the Senior List.

The positive is the remainder of Drain's comment.

Drain's comment support my initial view of Miles following a pre-season game versus Essendon where he rebounded with flair, poise and certainty to be easily among our best.

I understand that any query relating to the likes of Milne, Baker and Blake, all approaching or over 30 years of age and with well over 150 AFL games in their CV, brings out cries of anguish in defence of those 3 who have each had careers to be proud of given limited attributes.

In moving on, and in improving, it is unfortunately these club stalwarts who are 'in the gun' from those who have yet to represent St Kilda because they have been in appentice mode following Drafting or have been recruited from elsewhere.

In 2009 it was Max, and by extension Ball and Maguire.

Where was Max on the B&F voting list in 2008 - a stellar year for him finishing with his performances in the finals series?

This year it will be others.

That is a fact of life.

In 2009, Ray was traded for and played every game.

So he took someone's place.

Again, similar will most likely happen in 2010 in regards Lovett and Peake.

And this progression, and our planning for it - which attracts me, will prove exactly how strong we are as a footy club.

We can see the progression chart with our rucks, being re-built by Lyon, from ziltch with Gardiner and King - then a gap to the teen age appentices, now filled by Pattinson who will get games as the ruck resourse is managed and progressed in 2010.

My interest is the debate on the future and how Club is positioning itself - including the impact during the up-coming 2010 season, because there will be impact.

A post of 'Milne can not be dropped because who is going to kick the 2 goals a game he averages over his career and no one else can so he is the greatest forward pocket ever' is dismissed by me and I have my views of those who post such comment, as they have opinion of me!

Bit of fun, isn't it - because we all have St Kilda being an ultra competative football Club as a common theme in our lists of 'Interests'.

And we all have other interests we devote our time and energies toward.

But this is a footy forum.

[Solar]

A couple of areas will be of interest and TTT is close to the mark IMO

One is the forward line and the other the backline.

The finals howed that our forward line is unbalanced. everyone and their dog can see that we need a medium forward (lead up would be lovely).

Currently we have the big pack key forward in kosi, one pure lead up forward in roo, the small that can find space in schneider and 2 pure small forwards.

I'd back schneider to improve his finals output and he is alot more flexible then milne and mini.

mini is extremely important to our prssure game in the forward line but can we afford both he and dempster in the same forward line, finals say no. One option is to use someone like dempster as the defensive forward and move mini into the forward line. Or be happy with mini's tackling and goal scoring abilit. I go with the later.

So IMO we keep roo, kosi, schneider and mini as our core forward line. We fill the other two spots with one meium forward and a clever midfielder who kicks goals.

The medium forward coule be lynch, gwilt, BJ
the running half forward could be lovett, joey, steven, armo

Need to use the pr-season and first half of the year to bed this down.

the other part that worries me is our small backs. We have a nice selection of backs who can play tall. Zac, blake, gilbert, clarke. Unfortunately we lack that small back thats fast. baker payed the game of his life in the grand final but we weren't able to cover the other small cats forwards. Ross spent the whole day shifting backs to get good match ups with raph ending up on hawkins at one stage. Can peake do the job for us ?

The rucks are also a little of a worry but not as much.

[ace]

And I am sorry, I did not realize these teams were selected for Round 1. I feel sure Tommy Walsh will be in the team before years end. I am sure Jimmy Stynes did'nt play one or two seasons in the seconds. Dont forget, this kid is no green horn, having played in a winning All Ireland competition team. He is used to playing with men. He just needs to adjust his game and learn the rules.

No St Kilda's best 22 is NOT the team that plays in round 1.
That is an every week 22.

The BEST 22 is the team that wins the premiership on the last Saturday in September.
That gives Tommy Walsh and others the length of the season to make that team.

It is also the team that matches well against likely premiership contenders, not the team that will boost the percentage by smashing a tanking Melbourne, Richmond or Fremantle by 150 points.

The forwards must be able to kick goals against Geelong's defence and stop Geelong repelling our attacks effectively.
37 inside 50's in the first half does not say you had a reasonable go at it.
It says you didn't score enough and the ball rebounded too easily.

The backs must be able to quell Geelong's scoring, pressure them into behinds instead of goals and rebound the ball into attack.

The midfielders must be able to overcome Geelong's supermen and deliver the ball with precision to our forwards.
37 inside 50s should be much closer to 37 set shots on goal.

Now all you selectors go away and pick teams that will overcome the best opponent on that last Saturday in September.

[PJ]

Just took a look at my own posts, I talk crap like all of us here but no where near as much as to the top. But its nice to know you take a interest in me even though you don't get the facts right.

Which facts are those?

[gurubob101]

The rest of the competition will be working on ways to pick our structures apart so we may benefit from becoming a little less predictable; particularly in attack.

How about trying something a like this...
B: Armitage Dawson Baker
HB: Gram Blake Gilbert
C: Montagna Hayes Lovett
HF: Fisher Riewoldt Clarke
F: Schneider Kosi Steven

R: Gardiner Goddard Dal Santo

Int: McEvoy Milne Jones Ray


Makes Armo accountable as atm he seems to just drift in and out of games.
Throwing Sam Fisher up forward may give us that quality third tall we've been searching for.

Raph plays high on the forward line giving you extra run and allowing him to use his creative flair.

Gram and Gilbert provide run off the backline and
Lovett and Montagna give us pace across the centre.

Imo we should also to start rotating a few players to give Lynch, Steven, Heyne, McEvoy and Miles some experience and freshen up a few of the older guys throughout the course of the season.
I thought some of our blokes looked a bit flat in the finals against the Maggots and the Doggies and Geelong seemed to time their run into the finals a just a little better.

[Saintersss]

Just took a look at my own posts, I talk crap like all of us here but no where near as much as to the top. But its nice to know you take a interest in me even though you don't get the facts right.

Which facts are those?

That i post 10 paragraphs per post or whatever you were on about.