2010 - My opinion

[Milton66]

Everyone was complaining how Gram always turnovers the ball after his run and carry, well be prepared to be even more annoyed with Peake.

Yeeeeeeha! New whipping boy. TAke a well earnt long service break Rahpy old son.

[bigred]

One serious question.

Leaving Milne out of the side.

Where are the 40 replacement goals gonna come from?

Simple as that.

[BigMart]

from a combination of 17 other players......yes he did kick 46 goals......he does have big games......but how many big games does he have in 'big games'

If you want to see the diff between Schnieder and Milne
Possesions, tackle count, assists.......and of course - brain explosions

Milney need to beat some good opponents, and do it on the big stages more often to win credibility...

[Saintersss]

Everyone was complaining how Gram always turnovers the ball after his run and carry, well be prepared to be even more annoyed with Peake.

Yeeeeeeha! New whipping boy. TAke a well earnt long service break Rahpy old son.

Maybe this is a long-term plan for Ross. Get Peake to become the new whipping boy so everyone forgets about Raph. Raph then gains confidence and becomes a superstar?

[Saintersss]

from a combination of 17 other players......yes he did kick 46 goals......he does have big games......but how many big games does he have in 'big games'

If you want to see the diff between Schnieder and Milne
Possesions, tackle count, assists.......and of course - brain explosions

Milney need to beat some good opponents, and do it on the big stages more often to win credibility...

Yes its all and well to say he is not doing well... but who the hell is going to replace him? And do a better job then him. Gwilt couldn't even kick goals in the non 'big games'.

[SainterK]

from a combination of 17 other players......yes he did kick 46 goals......he does have big games......but how many big games does he have in 'big games'

If you want to see the diff between Schnieder and Milne
Possesions, tackle count, assists.......and of course - brain explosions

Milney need to beat some good opponents, and do it on the big stages more often to win credibility...

Yes its all and well to say he is not doing well... but who the hell is going to replace him? And do a better job then him. Gwilt couldn't even kick goals in the non 'big games'.

I don't think it's a case of being done with Milne, I think it's more about exploring options so that there is some depth and competition for the small forward position at the club. I mean, Schneider and Milne have the luxury of being pretty much it as far as depth goes, need someone to breathe down their necks a little....

Gwilt has played a third medium size forward, not really a good comparison for Milne...

[plugger66]

from a combination of 17 other players......yes he did kick 46 goals......he does have big games......but how many big games does he have in 'big games'

If you want to see the diff between Schnieder and Milne
Possesions, tackle count, assists.......and of course - brain explosions

Milney need to beat some good opponents, and do it on the big stages more often to win credibility...

You could argue that Schneider needs to beat Milney in goals. I would think Milne has as many possesions as Scneider even if it is the most overated stat we write down. If we are worried about Milnes form in the finals then shouldnt we worry about Scneider and kosi. You just cant replace 46 goals with 17 other players otherwise we would kick 46 extra every year. Milney will continue to play until we can replace as what happens with every player on our list.

[Country Kid]

i dont have any time for dempster. i watched him cloasely and just does not seem athletic enough. not sure he overcome his natural deficiencies. sure he looks like an adonis and probably trains the house down in the gym. but on the field seemed to lack everything and got towled up andrew mackie - who is a very good player by the way....

who knows maybe im a bad judge. but from what ive seen hes a good trier, a fitness fanatic, but really lacks class and atheleticism.

In Dempster's defence...........

* back from a knee reco 2/3rds of the way thru the season
* used as a 'bit' player to try and cover positions and not given the chance to settle in any one position
* If my GF memory serves me correctly Mackie had 4 touches in 10 mins then went missing from the game for the next 2.5 qtrs, so much so that he had to be moved away from Dempster further up the ground.
* he is athletic although not quick off the mark but can run all day. From what I have heard is in the top 4 at the club for fitness.

I do agree he needs to 'find' the ball more - whether he can develop this side of his game only time will tell.

[joffaboy]

Really well put together OP.

Hard decisions need to be made and the dropping of Milne could well be one of them.

Also I think the thought that Lovett may make it harder for Raph is valid.

And all of this is avery good thing IMHO. More pressure to perform can only make the team stronger.

McEvoy for King is another change I like. McEvoy really started to show some very good signs in his 10 game stint this season. looked very composed by the last few games.

[To the top]

To update from the end of the dream with Maguire re-establishing in the key outer defence position, I would feel comfortable with the following in 2010 (subject to one romance not being replaced with another being the Irish talent introduced):-

Peake Dawson Gilbert
Gram S. Fisher Miles
Dal Santo Hayes Montagna
Lynch Koschitzke Lovett
Steven Riewoldt Schnieder
Gardiner Goddard Jones
King, Ray, Clarke, Armitage

Blake Baker McEvoy


We will have players unavailable, so the veterans Baker and Blake (and the junior, McEvoy) will play footy BUT we have them covered as their careers approach their final stages respectively.

Such a side has two capable and experienced ruckmen, a tight, quick and rebounding defence where isolation of a player because of overhead capacities is not evident, a varied attack which has a mix of 'talls', mids and quick opportunists all with defensive capabilities and work ethic, a mid field of class accross contested work, defensive capabilities, attack and work ethic and an interchange which gives support and flexibility with both Clarke and Ray also able to take 'back 6' duties to rotate the likes of Fisher and Gilbert further upfield.

Plus we progress with the likes of Lynch, Armitage, Miles and Steven who have their careers ahead of them.

If 3 of those 4 can show they really belong in our 'best 22', we are well on the way in my opinion.

[St DAC]

Hard decisions need to be made and the dropping of Milne could well be one of them.

Perhaps, but I'm struggling to see another small forward we have capable of averaging 2 goals a game who is not already in the best 22.

McEvoy for King is another change I like. McEvoy really started to show some very good signs in his 10 game stint this season. looked very composed by the last few games.

I agree he showed a bit, but in all honesty he was toweled in the actual ruck contests from what I saw. King may offer little around the ground (and Mac offers a bit more there I agree) but in the ruck contests he's streets ahead of Mac.

[BigMart]

small fwds do not have to average 2 goals a game...just create or be involved in the scoring of goals.....

Question.
How did we ever win when T.Lockett was out (and we did)....he averaged 5 goals a game.....he was not replaced by an equal....how did we manage to win???

[St DAC]

small fwds do not have to average 2 goals a game...just create or be involved in the scoring of goals.....

I'll rephrase it for you Marto.

Who do we have on our list capable of replicating Milne's contribution to our score? Not only kicking goals himself, but score assists? That is not currently in our best 22?

I can't think of anyone, and that's why leaving Milne out of the side is a mistake IMO.

[3rd generation saint]

Milne stays ahead of others because he can kick goals during the Home and Away season.
Just saying his 46 goals will be made up by others doesn't improcve us.
What we need is additional goals above his 46.
If Milne can deliver another 50 odd goal season, Schneider 30 odd goals, Kosi 50+ goals, McQualter 20+ goals and 20+ goals from Lovett, Dal Santo and Montagna.
If we get that, and keep our defence as good, that equals Premiership because no one will get near us.

[St DAC]

If Milne can deliver another 50 odd goal season, Schneider 30 odd goals, Kosi 50+ goals, McQualter 20+ goals and 20+ goals from Lovett, Dal Santo and Montagna.

Roo?

[To the top]

There are still those romantics seduced by '2 goals a game'.

That, with all due regard and respect, is crap.

To win matches you must score more than the opposition, whether than be 5 goals or 20 goals.

And to score more than the opposition the TEAM must generate the opportunities - and restrict opportunities.

Milne is expendable in my view on the sole basis of what he brings to the team - notwithstanding a conscience effort to have a presence when he does not have the ball during the season just gone.

You could say that Riewoldt should play as a forward pocket because he would average 3 goals a game in that position - but what a waste that would be.

And therein lies the flaw in the '2 goals a game' line.

Given the opportunity to line up as a specialist forward pocket - because he can not contribute elsewhere as has been consistently shown over years - many others on our list would average 2 goals a game - and more.

But we can not even rotate them thru a forward pocket position because Milne is a liability further afield where he does not have the pace and his tackles are ineffective - he is either in a forward pocket or off the ground.

Bring on Steven - who has the prospect of graduating to a genuine mid field performer with his pace and his commitment to the contest.

And these attributes will make him most dangerous in the forward line.

We have to improve accross the park and the weak link in regards TEAM is Milne.

He is just too consistently found out by bigger bodied defenders playing him from behind - and the better teams have these bigger bodied defenders who can sit on Milne's ginger and ensure he can not duck behind into space.

If Milne played against us we would match him with either Baker (because Milne would not expose him overhead if they put Milne into the goal square as a mis-match target) or Gilbert.

He would be lucky to get a sniff on either.

Our defence is just so accountable, as is our mid-field so we need the same description attaching to each of our forwards.

Even Ray would be attractive in spurts up forward because his package includes being a very solid overhead mark against similar sized players.

So you would look for the mis-match and him taking someone to the square - something you can not do with Milne who is a forward pocket specialist because he averages 2 goals a game.

[plugger66]

There are still those romantics seduced by '2 goals a game'.

That, with all due regard and respect, is crap.

To win matches you must score more than the opposition, whether than be 5 goals or 20 goals.

And to score more than the opposition the TEAM must generate the opportunities - and restrict opportunities.

Milne is expendable in my view on the sole basis of what he brings to the team - notwithstanding a conscience effort to have a presence when he does not have the ball during the season just gone.

You could say that Riewoldt should play as a forward pocket because he would average 3 goals a game in that position - but what a waste that would be.

And therein lies the flaw in the '2 goals a game' line.

Given the opportunity to line up as a specialist forward pocket - because he can not contribute elsewhere as has been consistently shown over years - many others on our list would average 2 goals a game - and more.

But we can not even rotate them thru a forward pocket position because Milne is a liability further afield where he does not have the pace and his tackles are ineffective - he is either in a forward pocket or off the ground.

Bring on Steven - who has the prospect of graduating to a genuine mid field performer with his pace and his commitment to the contest.

And these attributes will make him most dangerous in the forward line.

We have to improve accross the park and the weak link in regards TEAM is Milne.

He is just too consistently found out by bigger bodied defenders playing him from behind - and the better teams have these bigger bodied defenders who can sit on Milne's ginger and ensure he can not duck behind into space.

If Milne played against us we would match him with either Baker (because Milne would not expose him overhead if they put Milne into the goal square as a mis-match target) or Gilbert.

He would be lucky to get a sniff on either.

Our defence is just so accountable, as is our mid-field so we need the same description attaching to each of our forwards.

Even Ray would be attractive in spurts up forward because his package includes being a very solid overhead mark against similar sized players.

So you would look for the mis-match and him taking someone to the square - something you can not do with Milne who is a forward pocket specialist because he averages 2 goals a game.

You continue to write alot and you continue to make little sense. ray up forward. that is funny.

[To the top]

Has skills at ground level as he has demonstrated in a very promising Year 1 with St Kilda.

What I am saying that, matched by the correct opponent, he would be periodically most dangerous up forward because of the fact that he is a very good overhead mark against like sized players and even those a little taller.

So, if you could grab one or two inside 50 and have 1 or 2 set shots at goal from a mid sized player that would be an excellent outcome.

And Ray has the attributes to deliver such an outcome if we can engineer the contest and move Ray forward.

The same with Goddard but Goddard is just that too valuable in the mid field - including because of his disposal skills when the likes of Riewoldt and Koschitzke are in front of him - and hopefully Lynch.

You do not dismiss any player bringing anything to the park these days, Plugger, because the smallest, most un-expected contribution can deliver the result.

Hence we have a TEAM on the park who bring versatility and the un-expected - and in preference to having a player who is exclusively a small forward pocket player.

[plugger66]

Has skills at ground level as he has demonstrated in a very promising Year 1 with St Kilda.

What I am saying that, matched by the correct opponent, he would be periodically most dangerous up forward because of the fact that he is a very good overhead mark against like sized players and even those a little taller.

So, if you could grab one or two inside 50 and have 1 or 2 set shots at goal from a mid sized player that would be an excellent outcome.

And Ray has the attributes to deliver such an outcome if we can engineer the contest and move Ray forward.

The same with Goddard but Goddard is just that too valuable in the mid field - including because of his disposal skills when the likes of Riewoldt and Koschitzke are in front of him - and hopefully Lynch.

You do not dismiss any player bringing anything to the park these days, Plugger, because the smallest, most un-expected contribution can deliver the result.

Hence we have a TEAM on the park who bring versatility and the un-expected - and in preference to having a player who is exclusively a small forward pocket player.

Did geelong do anything out of the ordinary. We are good enough with luck to win a flag but putting players in positions that are uncommon to them will not help us at all. the best way to win is to get your better players to play better in their best positions.

[Milton66]

Has skills at ground level as he has demonstrated in a very promising Year 1 with St Kilda.

What I am saying that, matched by the correct opponent, he would be periodically most dangerous up forward because of the fact that he is a very good overhead mark against like sized players and even those a little taller.

So, if you could grab one or two inside 50 and have 1 or 2 set shots at goal from a mid sized player that would be an excellent outcome.

And Ray has the attributes to deliver such an outcome if we can engineer the contest and move Ray forward.

The same with Goddard but Goddard is just that too valuable in the mid field - including because of his disposal skills when the likes of Riewoldt and Koschitzke are in front of him - and hopefully Lynch.

You do not dismiss any player bringing anything to the park these days, Plugger, because the smallest, most un-expected contribution can deliver the result.

Hence we have a TEAM on the park who bring versatility and the un-expected - and in preference to having a player who is exclusively a small forward pocket player.

Did geelong do anything out of the ordinary. We are good enough with luck to win a flag but putting players in positions that are uncommon to them will not help us at all. the best way to win is to get your better players to play better in their best positions.

I think he used Ray as an example. Which is not to say that a player cannot be groomed for a specific position.

I tend to agree with the line on Milne. Everyone's like where will we get those goals from? Utter tosh.

I suspect we have players who can compensate on the scoreboard as well as around the ground better than Milne.

The game has evolved and uni-dimensional players are becoming exctinct unless they are absolute guns.

Just ask Luke Ball.

[Saintersss]

Has skills at ground level as he has demonstrated in a very promising Year 1 with St Kilda.

What I am saying that, matched by the correct opponent, he would be periodically most dangerous up forward because of the fact that he is a very good overhead mark against like sized players and even those a little taller.

So, if you could grab one or two inside 50 and have 1 or 2 set shots at goal from a mid sized player that would be an excellent outcome.

And Ray has the attributes to deliver such an outcome if we can engineer the contest and move Ray forward.

The same with Goddard but Goddard is just that too valuable in the mid field - including because of his disposal skills when the likes of Riewoldt and Koschitzke are in front of him - and hopefully Lynch.

You do not dismiss any player bringing anything to the park these days, Plugger, because the smallest, most un-expected contribution can deliver the result.

Hence we have a TEAM on the park who bring versatility and the un-expected - and in preference to having a player who is exclusively a small forward pocket player.

Did geelong do anything out of the ordinary. We are good enough with luck to win a flag but putting players in positions that are uncommon to them will not help us at all. the best way to win is to get your better players to play better in their best positions.

I think he used Ray as an example. Which is not to say that a player cannot be groomed for a specific position.

I tend to agree with the line on Milne. Everyone's like where will we get those goals from? Utter tosh.

I suspect we have players who can compensate on the scoreboard as well as around the ground better than Milne.

The game has evolved and uni-dimensional players are becoming exctinct unless they are absolute guns.

Just ask Luke Ball.

You suspect wrong... Milne is pretty much the only crumber in the game who gets as many goals as he does. (not inclu. medium forwards). Don't forget he was in the AA squad.

But can somebody tell me who we are replacing Milne and McQualter with... I keep hearing that they should go, but who is going to take their postion?

[SainterK]

Has skills at ground level as he has demonstrated in a very promising Year 1 with St Kilda.

What I am saying that, matched by the correct opponent, he would be periodically most dangerous up forward because of the fact that he is a very good overhead mark against like sized players and even those a little taller.

So, if you could grab one or two inside 50 and have 1 or 2 set shots at goal from a mid sized player that would be an excellent outcome.

And Ray has the attributes to deliver such an outcome if we can engineer the contest and move Ray forward.

The same with Goddard but Goddard is just that too valuable in the mid field - including because of his disposal skills when the likes of Riewoldt and Koschitzke are in front of him - and hopefully Lynch.

You do not dismiss any player bringing anything to the park these days, Plugger, because the smallest, most un-expected contribution can deliver the result.

Hence we have a TEAM on the park who bring versatility and the un-expected - and in preference to having a player who is exclusively a small forward pocket player.

Did geelong do anything out of the ordinary. We are good enough with luck to win a flag but putting players in positions that are uncommon to them will not help us at all. the best way to win is to get your better players to play better in their best positions.

I think he used Ray as an example. Which is not to say that a player cannot be groomed for a specific position.

I tend to agree with the line on Milne. Everyone's like where will we get those goals from? Utter tosh.

I suspect we have players who can compensate on the scoreboard as well as around the ground better than Milne.

The game has evolved and uni-dimensional players are becoming exctinct unless they are absolute guns.

Just ask Luke Ball.

You suspect wrong... Milne is pretty much the only crumber in the game who gets as many goals as he does. (not inclu. medium forwards). Don't forget he was in the AA squad.

But can somebody tell me who we are replacing Milne and McQualter with... I keep hearing that they should go, but who is going to take their postion?

McQualter?

[Moods]

Every year ppl suggest that Milney is expendable, and every year Milney continues to do enough.

From memory he really stood up when 8 of our most senior players were 'rested.'

[To the top]

Thanks Milton 66.

My comment was 'Even Ray ....' and then a reference to short spurts and the reason being he is very solid overhead against like sized players.

And away went that luminary, plugger 13.

The use of 'Plugger' probably gives him away - as long as we have someone kicking 2 goals a game we have someone to lay ourselves prostrate in front of, in awe. All hail someone who plays as a permanent Forward Pocket and averages 2 goals a game - and even kicked 11 in one game - against who? So that means he has had 5 weeks kicking no goals from a Forward Pocket.

Akermanis is a far, far superior player to Milne as a small forward - and it hurts me to 'wrap' someone of such limited, self serving characteristics.

The fact is you can rotate these players such as Ray by way of example thru the F50 looking for that one off advantage which may lead to a set shot or two on goal.


And, compared to having a player who can only play as a forward pocket and who has not taken his game to another dimension as many do from starting in such a position (eg Akermanis and Ablett as examples), I think there is marked benefit to having flexibility among your mids such that they can rotate thru defence, the mid-field and in attack, unsettling the opposition in the process.

I, for one, look forward to Clarke evolving into a mid-field player capable of playing back, mid and forward.

That is why I have him on the inter-change bench, to give the flexibility Milne detracts from.

[plugger66]

Thanks Milton 66.

My comment was 'Even Ray ....' and then a reference to short spurts and the reason being he is very solid overhead against like sized players.

And away went that luminary, plugger 13.

The use of 'Plugger' probably gives him away - as long as we have someone kicking 2 goals a game we have someone to lay ourselves prostrate in front of, in awe. All hail someone who plays as a permanent Forward Pocket and averages 2 goals a game - and even kicked 11 in one game - against who? So that means he has had 5 weeks kicking no goals from a Forward Pocket.

Akermanis is a far, far superior player to Milne as a small forward - and it hurts me to 'wrap' someone of such limited, self serving characteristics.

The fact is you can rotate these players such as Ray by way of example thru the F50 looking for that one off advantage which may lead to a set shot or two on goal.


And, compared to having a player who can only play as a forward pocket and who has not taken his game to another dimension as many do from starting in such a position (eg Akermanis and Ablett as examples), I think there is marked benefit to having flexibility among your mids such that they can rotate thru defence, the mid-field and in attack, unsettling the opposition in the process.

I, for one, look forward to Clarke evolving into a mid-field player capable of playing back, mid and forward.

That is why I have him on the inter-change bench, to give the flexibility Milne detracts from.

Aker better than Milne. Well thanks for that einstein. Even Milneys parents would agree with that. Milne is no good because he is a permanent foward pocket and kicks 2 goals a game. Kosi played as a key forward all year and guess what he got roughly the same goals as Milne. Also how did Kosi go in the finals? Then you wrap up Clarke because he can play many positions. Well i would rather a player play one position well than many position only average. As i previously said if Milney 46 goals can be replaced by many players why didnt we just kick an extra 46 this year if it was so easy.