List Lodgement No 1

[ace]

Yellow are my edits

ST KILDA
1. Armitage, David
2. Baker, Steven (veteran - inside list)
3. Ball, Luke
4. Blake, Jason
5. Cahill, Paul
6. Clarke, Raphael
7. Dal Santo, Nick
8. Dawson, Zac
9. Dempster, Sean
10. Eddy, Robert
11. Fisher, Leigh
12. Fisher, Sam
13. Gardiner, Michael
14. Geary, Jarryn
15. Gilbert, Sam
16. Goddard, Brendon
17. Gram, Jason
18. Gwilt, James
19. Hayes, Lenny (veteran - outside list)
20. Heyne, Nick
21. Jones, Clinton
22. King, Steven
23. Koschitzke, Justin
24. Lovett, Andrew
25. Lynch, Tom
26. McEvoy, Ben
27. McQualter, Andrew
28. Miles, Luke
29. Milne, Stephen
30. Montagna, Leigh
31. Peake, Brett
32. Ray, Farren
33. Riewoldt, Nick
34. Schneider, Adam
35. Smith, Alistair
36. Stanley, Rhys
37. Steven, Jack
38. Pick 32
39. Pick 60
40. Pick 64 disallowed due to Baker being inside the list

Rookie list (1 nominated rookie allowed due to Baker being inside the list)
1. Gaertner, Steven (2nd year rookie)
2. Howard, Brad (2nd year rookie)
3. McGrath, Blake (2nd year former NSW scholarship)
4. Simpkin, Tom (2nd year rookie)
5. Walsh, Tommy (pre-selected international rookie)
6. Rookie pick 20
7. Rookie pick 36
8. Rookie pick 52
9. (Only pre-selected former NSW scholarship)
10. (Only pre-selected former NSW scholarship)

ADDITIONS
Exchange period: Andrew Lovett (Essendon), Brett Peake (Fremantle)
Rookie elevation: Zac Dawson, Luke Miles
International rookie selection: Tommy Walsh (County Kerry, Ireland)

DELETIONS
Retired: Jarryd Allen, Max Hudghton (veteran - outside list)
Exchange period: Xavier Clarke (Brisbane Lions)
Delisted: Colm Begley, Eljay Connors, Matt Maguire, Sam McGarry (rookie), Khan Haretuku (rookie), Ross Tungatulum (rookie)

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

[ace]

As expected Richmond have delisted Graham Polak.

They could well pick him up in the rookie draft as a mature age rookie.

[Gilbo1on1]

As expected Richmond have delisted Graham Polak.

They could well pick him up in the rookie draft as a mature age rookie.

yeah? they donald trumped him?

[ausfatcat]

As expected Richmond have delisted Graham Polak.

They could well pick him up in the rookie draft as a mature age rookie.

can they? Did they change the rules with regards to mature age rookies?

[Gilbo1on1]

what are they saying in the media?

[Milan Faletic]

Including retirements and trades, Richmond have let 13 players go. That is a major change for any club and shows that Damien Hardwick is making a clear statement about what he wants....or what he doesn't want.

[ace]

Seems clubs are allowed 6 rookies plus 3 former NSW scholarship holder rookies, plus up to 2 nominated rookies instead of veterans outside the list.

2 of the non NSW scholarship holder places can be taken by players of any age and having played any number of games.

The player must go into the rookie draft, and I suspect both or either of the national draft or pre-season draft first.

The rule changed only this month.

[Gilbo1on1]

Including retirements and trades, Richmond have let 13 players go. That is a major change for any club and shows that Damien Hardwick is making a clear statement about what he wants....or what he doesn't want.

haha funny. terry brought nothing but sh1t into the club and now others are expected to flush it away. they are a go-nowhere institution.

[ace]

Including retirements and trades, Richmond have let 13 players go. That is a major change for any club and shows that Damien Hardwick is making a clear statement about what he wants....or what he doesn't want.

haha funny. terry brought nothing but sh1t into the club and now others are expected to flush it away. they are a go-nowhere institution.

More importantly 12 of those gone are senior or veteran listed players.
They have also announced 2 rookie promotions and gain one player through trade.
They will only have 1 veteran outside the list so will have one less player and one nominated rookie instead.

That leaves 8 vacancies to be filled via the national and pre-season drafts.
They have national draft picks 3, 19, 35, 44, 51, 67, 72, plus pre-season pick 2.
However some of those late picks may be advanced as other teams pass.

They will also have 4 rookie picks.
I think Gold Coast have the first 5 rookie picks so Richmond's rookie picks would be 7, 23, 39, 45.

Hardwick certainly is turning over the list.
Only Richardson, Cousins, Simmonds remain of their older brigade.
He is definitely out to rebuild their list from scratch.
Those who will not be around for when his window opens have been thrown out the door.

[ace]

Leaving Baker as a veteran ON THE LIST implies St Kilda intend to have only a total of 38 seniors plus 1 veteran outside the list plus 1 nominated rookie.

[ace]

Some teams have shown new "former NSW scholarship rookies".
St Kilda has not shown Josh Duncan or Ted Widner however it my understanding that former NSW scholarship rookies only have to be pre-selected by 1 December.

Pre-selecting Duncan and Widner does not effect the remaining number of rookies allowed or affect the salary cap.
All the club has to do is find the money for the salaries.

[Saintersss]

Hmmm... very interesting.

Baker is still inside the list despite being able to be outside it. And Maguire was still delisted even though if Baker was put outside the list and Maguire was retained we would still have the same of number of spots left to use in the draft than at the moment.

- Which means we will most likely promote a rookie during the season and are leaving a spot open for this. (Walsh? Simpkin?)
- It was a mutual decision for Maguire to leave so he could get a chance to get a regular game at a different club.
- We have salary cap pressure.

Or am i just over-thinking this?

[ausfatcat]

- Which means we will most likely promote a rookie during the season and are leaving a spot open for this. (Walsh? Simpkin?)


Or am i just over-thinking this?

We have historically done this, but one less vet outside of the list means anther spot for a rookie.

[ace]

It could well be the club told Maguire, try your luck in the draft, if you fail we move Baker inside the list and take you back in the pre-season draft.
If you are not taken then St Kilda will grab another rookie.

Alternately St Kilda could take him back as a mature age rookie and have a place to promote the best rookie.

The AFL is trying to promote flexibilty and clubs are getting flexible.

[elphie]

is it just me but i did expect a stronger delist list like last year?
are L. FISHER and B.HOWARD and J.GWILT lucky?
if they could not earn spots in last year then....?
and are all these rookies from last, deserving of another go? seems unusual?
is this a sign there is not much in this years draft to pick up?
comments?

[bobmurray]

is it just me but i did expect a stronger delist list like last year?
are L. FISHER and B.HOWARD and J.GWILT lucky?
if they could not earn spots in last year then....?
and are all these rookies from last, deserving of another go? seems unusual?
is this a sign there is not much in this years draft to pick up?
comments?

They were kept so that Ross would have at least 3 delistings at the end of season 2010......

[F_Q_F]

is it just me but i did expect a stronger delist list like last year?
are L. FISHER and B.HOWARD and J.GWILT lucky?
if they could not earn spots in last year then....?
and are all these rookies from last, deserving of another go? seems unusual?
is this a sign there is not much in this years draft to pick up?
comments?

Fisher and Howard maybe a little lucky, don't know the status of their contracts though. Your whole list can't be superstars and Gwilt and Fisher can compete at the top level if needed.

Can't say much about Howard, they obviously have a reason to keep him...

[ace]

is it just me but i did expect a stronger delist list like last year?
are L. FISHER and B.HOWARD and J.GWILT lucky?
if they could not earn spots in last year then....?
and are all these rookies from last, deserving of another go? seems unusual?
is this a sign there is not much in this years draft to pick up?
comments?

FINALLY GOT THIS RIGHT
It is easier to follow if you write out the months from 1990 to 1994 and then circle those for the national drafts by years and the gutting by year of Gold Coast and West Sydney.
It is hard to do on a computer, easy to do by hand.




In previous year drafts kids born between May and April of the following year have been eligible e.g. 2008 national draft - May 1990 to April 1991.

However this time, kids born May 1991 to December 1991 are eligible in this draft, but kids born January 1992 to April 1992 are NOT eligible.
Instead of 12 months of fresh kids being eligible only 8 months are eligible.
Because only two thirds the number of kids are available the quality in down to two thirds normal.
Pick 20 has roughly the same value as pick 30 in an uncompromised draft.

Gold Coast was allowed to sign 12 kids born January 1992 to April 1992.
Those not signed will be eligible for the 2010 draft along with kids born May 1992 to December 1992.
Even if they refused to sign with Gold Coast, the January 1992 to April 1992 kids can't escape, because Gold Coast has picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15 in the 2010 draft.
If you think this year is compromised next year is more compromised.
Although kids born January 1992 to December 1992 wiil be eligible, Gold Coast will have gutted January 1992 to April 1992 plus Gold Coast has all those priority picks, that push other clubs picks back.


To make it even worse next year 2010 West Sydney gets to sign 12 kids born January 1993 to April 1993 followed by picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15 in the 2011 draft.
Kids born January 1993 to December 1993 being eligible for the 2011 national draft but this time West Sydney will have gutted Janaury 1993 to April 1993.

Finally in 2012 providing Demetriou does not admit Tasmania etc, kids born January 1994 to December 1994 will be eligible for the national draft.

Note how the AFL will have shifted the eligiblity age up by 4 months after the process is finished.
This will result in less kids being drafted before they finish school.

That may seem like an uncompromised draft but remember both Gold Coast and West Sydney will be in the competition and if they are being smart and waiting for a window based on youth they wiil be eligible for normal priority picks and also low picks in all rounds.
The first pick in round 2 will be 2 higher, round 3 first pick will be 4 higher etc.
Then when you thought it was safe the original 16 clubs will have compensatory picks for the out of contract players stolen by Gold Coast and West Sydney.
These picks to be decided by a complex formula devised by the AFL.


All very complicated, but it means that a young fringe player now, suddenly becomes worth a best 22 player once you eliminate players with only 3 years left in their careers.

Last year the clubs collectively took 80 new players in the National and Pre-Season drafts (plus recycled 5).
List Lodgements No1 indicate the number of new senior players taken this year will be less than 70.
69 new and recycled picks have enabled by List Lodgement No1 with a few more to come in List Lodgements 2 and 3.

[Mr Magic]

is it just me but i did expect a stronger delist list like last year?
are L. FISHER and B.HOWARD and J.GWILT lucky?
if they could not earn spots in last year then....?
and are all these rookies from last, deserving of another go? seems unusual?
is this a sign there is not much in this years draft to pick up?
comments?

Fisher and Howard maybe a little lucky, don't know the status of their contracts though. Your whole list can't be superstars and Gwilt and Fisher can compete at the top level if needed.

Can't say much about Howard, they obviously have a reason to keep him...

Fisher apparently has a year to run onnhis contract.
If the 'stories' are correct about us being 'tight in our salary cap', then it would seem to make sense to keep him on, rather than delist him and have to pay out his salary for next year anyway.

[ace]

To try to simplify.

Take 16 clubs with their best 25 players = 400 players.
Spread those players over 18 clubs and you roughly have 18 clubs best 22.

In 3 years time when the badly compromised drafts finish, best 25 players become best 22.
(Still being interferred with by compensatory picks).

A young fringe (25th best) player is now in your best 22.
Throwing away young OK players is not very smart.
If a player has only 3 years or less to play it doesn't matter because he wont be there in 2013.

[st1]

Some teams have shown new "former NSW scholarship rookies".
St Kilda has not shown Josh Duncan or Ted Widner however it my understanding that former NSW scholarship rookies only have to be pre-selected by 1 December.

Pre-selecting Duncan and Widner does not effect the remaining number of rookies allowed or affect the salary cap.
All the club has to do is find the money for the salaries.

Have been told by a reliable source that neither are being rookied a shame for duncan who showed huge potential playing for nsw in the last 2 years

[Mr Magic]

Some teams have shown new "former NSW scholarship rookies".
St Kilda has not shown Josh Duncan or Ted Widner however it my understanding that former NSW scholarship rookies only have to be pre-selected by 1 December.

Pre-selecting Duncan and Widner does not effect the remaining number of rookies allowed or affect the salary cap.
All the club has to do is find the money for the salaries.

Have been told by a reliable source that neither are being rookied a shame for duncan who showed huge potential playing for nsw in the last 2 years

Well the Club has them on their 'Sponsorship List asking people/organizations to sponsor them. They are listed along with Tommy Walsh as 'new' in tehir 'development group'.

[saintbrat]

the mature rookie change as H_S understands it
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/o ... 5795380475
THE new rookie rule looms as a demotion tool for AFL clubs.
Updated rules allowing two mature-age rookies on each list give clubs the option of down-grading experienced players.

Club sources said yesterday it could be a means of removing "list-cloggers" and making way for extra picks in the national or pre-season draft.
>>>>>>>>>>>>

[BigMart]

We still need to delist ONE more......and are obviously waiting on the L.Ball situation to unfold.....

if he choses to stay, expect another player to get axed......if he goes the list will stay intact....

We MUST take three in the ND.....so room must be made...

M.Maguire could possibly be selection #64 if he hasn't gone or there is nothing that has slipped through (like M.Ferguson 2006)

[saintbrat]

We still need to delist ONE more......and are obviously waiting on the L.Ball situation to unfold.....

if he choses to stay, expect another player to get axed......if he goes the list will stay intact....

We MUST take three in the ND.....so room must be made...

M.Maguire could possibly be selection #64 if he hasn't gone or there is nothing that has slipped through (like M.Ferguson 2006)

\

we have delisted three and retired 2 and traded 1- isn't that enough?