Ross Lyon: One on One

[bergholt]

Interesting article on the AFL site:

http://www.saints.com.au/season2009/new ... fault.aspx

Some excerpts:


(Andrew Lovett) "I think it’s a combination - midfield, forward, maybe a little bit back."

"We think we’ve got a healthy list and take no pleasure in delisting players. It will be minimal if we can."


This bit's really interesting:

"To become a good AFL player you’ve got to do a strong apprenticeship, unless you’re absolutely special. The ones we’re looking to improve are David Armitage and Jack Steven as well as (Jarryn) Geary, (Robert) Eddy and Raph Clarke. They are the ones we want to have an impact similar to what (Leigh) Montagna, Clint Jones and (Andrew) McQualter had this year. They’re positioned going into their fourth year to be able to do that. I think (Nick) Heyne, (Tom) Lynch, (Paul) Cahill and (Rhys) Stanley if they can pinch a few games, it would be good. The door’s open for them."

No mention of Miles, Smith, Simpkin?


"How important is it to have that midfield depth?
I don’t know what the precise number is but you need about 10 of quality to go through there."

"How hard is it going to be for Brett Peake to get a game?
You wouldn’t think it would be easy but we’ve identified his attributes we like."

"He has elite speed and endurance, a 50m kick, and is a goalkicker."


And another important one:

"Does Matt Maguire have a future at AFL level?
I think everyone’s got a future if they want a future. He’s overseas and we’re still working through our list. He has certainly been a respected player at St Kilda."

[saintbrat]

interview broken into pieces obviously to spread the news in this quiet period.
second article just surfaced on who will/ should/ could step up.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

To become a good AFL player you’ve got to do a strong apprenticeship, unless you’re absolutely special. The ones we’re looking to improve are David Armitage and Jack Steven as well as (Jarryn) Geary, (Robert) Eddy and Raph Clarke," Lyon told afl.com.au.

"They are the ones we want to have an impact similar to what (Leigh) Montagna, Clint Jones and (Andrew) McQualter had this year. They’re positioned going into their fourth year to be able to do that

."

[mightysainters]

Wow to me sounds like goose gone anyone else get that vibe?

[Moccha]

When you talk in past tense, well.......who knows

[meher baba]

Ah, here's an opportunity for all the Raph-haters: it is obvious that Lyon doesn't appreciate that Raph is now going into his 7th AFL season. If one of you would like to point this fact out to Ross, he might then decide to delist him and you can all be ecstatically happy.

Seriously, I think Ross appreciates that the first few years of Raph's AFL career were blighted by his undiagnosed epilepsy and chronic upper hamstring problems, and he is therefore still assessing him as a relatively raw player at AFL level.

BTW, the most interesting quote in the first article is surely this one

I can’t speak highly enough of Lenny but nor can I of (Steven) King, (Michael) Gardiner, (Nick) Dal Santo, Montagna, Clint Jones, (Brendon) Goddard and Luke Ball as well. It’s a very good group in there for leadership. I think Lenny would be the first to say that as well.

Unlike Goose, Luke is still being spoken of in the present tense. Perhaps those talks in New York are going better than any of us expected.

[borderbarry]

Unlike Goose, Luke is still being spoken of in the present tense. Perhaps those talks in New York are going better than any of us expected.
I hope Meher is right on this one.

[SainterK]

He said "if they want a future" perhaps Goose is considering nominating for the draft rather than Ross letting him go?

[Milton66]

To become a good AFL player you’ve got to do a strong apprenticeship, unless you’re absolutely special.

For all the supporters who carry on about giving kids a run for the sake of it.

Reality bites.

[vacuous space]

For all the supporters who carry on about giving kids a run for the sake of it.

Reality bites.

I hate the 'play the kids' mentality. Some kids come straight in and have an impact, then fade (Ball). Some take a long time (Joey). Giving a kid a game before he's earned it does nothing for the club or the player.

I've been re-reading Emma Quayle's book on the draft recently and at one point one of the coaches talks about how damaging it can be to a kid's confidence if he plays before he's ready and doesn't play well. Thankfully, RL seems to get it. A lot of AFL coaches don't seem to. I don't think Jack Watts was done any favours this year by the Melbourne coaching panel. Jack's a special kid, but he's not the messiah - not like Tommy Walsh.

Then you look at someone like Luke Ball or Paul Hasleby who came in and tore the place up as youngsters. As mature as they were, they probably weren't physically ready for what they were doing. Both Ball and Hasleby haven't really improved from where they were at when they were 20. It's hard to see somebody like Chris Judd playing as long as Robert Harvey did. I think coaches are rushing kids in to save their hides at the expense of the kid's long-term best interests.

Statistically, most players start to peak around year five. The '4-year apprenticeship' is spot on. RL is a genius.

[Beej]

I've been re-reading Emma Quayle's book on the draft recently and at one point one of the coaches talks about how damaging it can be to a kid's confidence if he plays before he's ready and doesn't play well.

What's the book like?

[vacuous space]

What's the book like?

It's top notch. A must have for footy tragics everywhere. Emma Quayle is a fantsastic footy journalist.

It basically follows five very different kids (Cotchin, Ebert, McEvoy, Rioli and Veszpremi) through their last year of junior football, with occasional insights from the Hawthorn footy department. Some of the stuff is even more fascinating in hindsight. It really gives you a glimpse into how hard these kids work and how hard the clubs work to rate them. With another year since the stuff was written, there's more time to judge some of the comments made by the recruiters.

[Milton66]

My comments were also about supporters who are quick to write off and whip players who don't turn out like Judd in their first 2 years.

[Quixote]

Jack's a special kid, but he's not the messiah - not like Tommy Walsh.

I like it


And yes - THE DRAFT is a fantastic read. Highly recommended.

[rodgerfox]

To become a good AFL player you’ve got to do a strong apprenticeship, unless you’re absolutely special.

For all the supporters who carry on about giving kids a run for the sake of it.

Reality bites.

It's not reality.

It's Ross Lyon's view. And one that many disagree with.

[Milton66]

To become a good AFL player you’ve got to do a strong apprenticeship, unless you’re absolutely special.

For all the supporters who carry on about giving kids a run for the sake of it.

Reality bites.

It's not reality.

It's Ross Lyon's view. And one that many disagree with.

How about you stop stalking my posts Rodge?

[saint75]

To become a good AFL player you’ve got to do a strong apprenticeship, unless you’re absolutely special.

For all the supporters who carry on about giving kids a run for the sake of it.

Reality bites.

It's not reality.

It's Ross Lyon's view. And one that many disagree with.

If we put GT's name to the quote, would it make you less likely to question or comment on it?

Your constant criticism of any coach that is not GT gets very tiresome after a while. For someone who claims to have 'no passion' for footy, you sure spend a lot of time disagreeing with any post that gives credit to Ross Lyon.

[Mr Magic]

To become a good AFL player you’ve got to do a strong apprenticeship, unless you’re absolutely special.

For all the supporters who carry on about giving kids a run for the sake of it.

Reality bites.

It's not reality.

It's Ross Lyon's view. And one that many disagree with.

Who are the many?
rodgerfox
violent stool


What constitutes many?

And please post a link to where what you've posted is stated as a fact, rather than just your opinion again.

[older saint]

GT had a philosophy of play the best players regardless of age or body. I remember attending a briefing with GT and Matt Rendell (2004 i think) and a question was asked about resting young players during a season to help them adjust and get through the season.
GT's response was better team up with Matt on that discussion bu ti think not.
I have no doubt the workload contributed to Ball and Maguire OP and even Kosi 2nd year injuries also.

Patience taken by R Lyon will pay benefits and the league seems to be heading back towards the apprentiship approach through the reserves like the old days.

[SydneySainter]

To become a good AFL player you’ve got to do a strong apprenticeship, unless you’re absolutely special.

For all the supporters who carry on about giving kids a run for the sake of it.

Reality bites.

It's not reality.

It's Ross Lyon's view. And one that many disagree with.

And your point is?

[joffaboy]

To become a good AFL player you’ve got to do a strong apprenticeship, unless you’re absolutely special.

For all the supporters who carry on about giving kids a run for the sake of it.

Reality bites.

It's not reality.

It's Ross Lyon's view. And one that many disagree with.

And your point is?

To sit back and see how many responses he gets to his bait.

[joffaboy]

GT had a philosophy of play the best players regardless of age or body. I remember attending a briefing with GT and Matt Rendell (2004 i think) and a question was asked about resting young players during a season to help them adjust and get through the season.
GT's response was better team up with Matt on that discussion bu ti think not.
I have no doubt the workload contributed to Ball and Maguire OP and even Kosi 2nd year injuries also.

Patience taken by R Lyon will pay benefits and the league seems to be heading back towards the apprentiship approach through the reserves like the old days.

Great post.

No doubt this overload on young bodies contributed to their chronic injury problems.

So many injuries under that philosophy - so many injuries.

[saintsRrising]

To become a good AFL player you’ve got to do a strong apprenticeship, unless you’re absolutely special.

For all the supporters who carry on about giving kids a run for the sake of it.

Reality bites.

It's not reality.

It's Ross Lyon's view. And one that many disagree with.

Who are the many?
rodgerfox
violent stool


What constitutes many?

And please post a link to where what you've posted is stated as a fact, rather than just your opinion again.

I think the many are the same one/s that questioned getting Drain to handle List Management in place of GT.

I mean imagine where our List could be now if Drain was hired when the last Board first wanted to hire him.

We now have a professional FULL-TIME list manager vs an amatuer PART-TIMER dabbling because it suited his ego. And the fruit of the change is there obvious to all (or most anyway...but no doubt not the the "many").

[rodgerfox]

Who are the many?

Nick Riewoldt's teammates.
Joel Selwood' teammates.
Chris Judd's teammates.
Daniel Rich's teammates.
Jonothan Brown's teammates.
Any of the Rising Star winners and runners up of the past 10 year's teammates.

And so on, and so on.

It's nonsense.

Obviously you'll be a better, more prepared player after 4 years in the system.
But to suggest that there is a clear 4 year apprenticeship before you can play AFL is laughable.

[saintsRrising]

But to suggest that there is a clear 4 year apprenticeship before you can play AFL is laughable.

I don't think Lyon actually said that.

It is a 4 year apprenticeship to become an AFL player for most....nota 4 year apprenticepship before you play a game.

They need to build their bodies and learn their craft.

Lists are also generally much deeper than several decades back and so harder for kids to walk straight in.

[meher baba]

As far as I can work out, Lyon's comments had everything to do with learning the game and nothing whatsoever to do with physical maturity.

The comments on here suggesting that GT ruined the careers of Ball, Kosi, Goose, etc. by making them play AFL too early are utterly ridiculous.

There might be some issues about how those players were managed when they became injured (although I also believe these criticisms are way overstated on this forum).

But it is utter codswallop to suggest that, when they were fit to play, they should ever have been left out of our AFL team on some spurious grounds that they were "not physically mature enough".

What a load of bollocks!! GT was right in 2004: you always play your best available side unless (as happened this year) you have won enough games to be assured of the minor premiership or if you are way out of contention and there are some players with niggles who you want to rest.

Young draftees are going to be playing football somewhere, and I have seen no evidence that the VFL (which has poorer quality grounds and seems to feature a reasonably high level of ill-disciplined, needlessly violent acts) is any "safer" a place for a young player to learn the game.

If they are good enough to play AFL, then they play AFL.

Would Geelong have won the 2007 Premiership without Joel Selwood?