The way contract offer withdrawn - Ball

[Richter]

"Give me one reason to play you in the GF", etc.

Where did that come from, the only place I have seen this quote is here, cam some one point me in the direction of where this came from.

I can't provide you with a link, but former StKilda player Dean Greig said on SEN last night that it was said to Luke by Ross on the Thursday before the GF.

Apparently this information came to Dean Greig from Ray Ball. Allegedly.

Big deal even if it was asked. Nowadays Luke is a fringe player at St Kilda.

[saintbrat]

could it not have been a question put to every player who was in contention for the Grand final..?

[SENsei]

"Give me one reason to play you in the GF", etc.

Where did that come from, the only place I have seen this quote is here, cam some one point me in the direction of where this came from.

I can't provide you with a link, but former StKilda player Dean Greig said on SEN last night that it was said to Luke by Ross on the Thursday before the GF.

Apparently this information came to Dean Greig from Ray Ball. Allegedly.

Big deal even if it was asked. Nowadays Luke is a fringe player at St Kilda.

Not saying it is a big deal. I am saying that was the source and the family were none to happy with the question...or rather the way the question and that particularly meeting was held.

Just reporting the facts, chief.

[Teflon]

"Give me one reason to play you in the GF", etc.

So what?

Lyons trying to get this club its second flag in a hundred years - he has fringe player he knows perhaps HAS another gear - he wants him hungry/motivated. He puts the acid on him directly ...its been happening at footy clubs since Adam was a boy.......and Ray Ball doesnt like it/

See this is what annoys me...........you cant help but wonder whether all Luke Balls decisions are made by mum/dad.

Hrdn the frk up Luke. ACTIONS demonstrate your response and in this case your form in the GF showed ALL (even ,Lyon who admitted he couldve played you more) that you ARE in the best 22.....so come back to the club and respond.

Forget the media/manager/family comments stunts.

[Mr Magic]

could it not have been a question put to every player who was in contention for the Grand final..?

And in what context was it asked (if it was).

Lennon seems to have taken that statement made by Dean Greig and apparently told to him by Ray Ball (that makes it at least 3rd hand) and accepted the connotation that it was something bad for Luke Ball?

Why couldn't it just be the Coach checking out the player who is about to play in the biggest game of his life to see if he is focussed? Afterall, Ball was entrusted by this same Coach (who apparently doesn't rate him) with teh single most important role on the ground at the first bounce.

It cannot have been too bad because Ball was not only selected BUT STARTED THE GAME IN THE CENTRE SQUARE.

If there was a problem between Coach and player one would suspect that Ball wouldn't have been picked and certainnly not started the game in the middle.

I can see people starting to believe the spin/pr/bs because 'Luke Ball is a great guy and it surely couldn't be his fault'.

Why is it so difficult to accept that this is most likely a farked-up contract negotiation by Paul Connors and what we are now seeing is the spin being concocted to lay the blame anywhere but where it belongs?

[vacuous space]

It's become pretty clear that Lyon does not rate him all that highly.

I'm not sure about that. It's clear Lyon thinks Ball isn't playing to the best of his ability - like Dal Santo, Montagna or Milne last year. If Lyon didn't rate Bally at all, why would he have brought him back in at the most important time of the year? It doesn't make sense.

[SENsei]

"Give me one reason to play you in the GF", etc.

So what?

Lyons trying to get this club its second flag in a hundred years - he has fringe player he knows perhaps HAS another gear - he wants him hungry/motivated. He puts the acid on him directly ...its been happening at footy clubs since Adam was a boy.......and Ray Ball doesnt like it/

See this is what annoys me...........you cant help but wonder whether all Luke Balls decisions are made by mum/dad.

Hrdn the frk up Luke. ACTIONS demonstrate your response and in this case your form in the GF showed ALL (even ,Lyon who admitted he couldve played you more) that you ARE in the best 22.....so come back to the club and respond.

Forget the media/manager/family comments stunts.

.EXACTLY

[SENsei]

could it not have been a question put to every player who was in contention for the Grand final..?

And in what context was it asked (if it was).

Lennon seems to have taken that statement made by Dean Greig and apparently told to him by Ray Ball (that makes it at least 3rd hand) and accepted the connotation that it was something bad for Luke Ball?

Why couldn't it just be the Coach checking out the player who is about to play in the biggest game of his life to see if he is focussed? Afterall, Ball was entrusted by this same Coach (who apparently doesn't rate him) with teh single most important role on the ground at the first bounce.

It cannot have been too bad because Ball was not only selected BUT STARTED THE GAME IN THE CENTRE SQUARE.

If there was a problem between Coach and player one would suspect that Ball wouldn't have been picked and certainnly not started the game in the middle.

I can see people starting to believe the spin/pr/bs because 'Luke Ball is a great guy and it surely couldn't be his fault'.

Why is it so difficult to accept that this is most likely a farked-up contract negotiation by Paul Connors and what we are now seeing is the spin being concocted to lay the blame anywhere but where it belongs?

.EXACTLY AGAIN


Gram, Dal, Milne all took their 'kick in the pants' and mentally toughened up. Unfortunately, Luke has not. Simple fact really.

I have no doubt Ross doesn't rate him now due to this exact reaction.

[Lennon]

I can see people starting to believe the spin/pr/bs because 'Luke Ball is a great guy and it surely couldn't be his fault'.

Why is it so difficult to accept that this is most likely a farked-up contract negotiation by Paul Connors and what we are now seeing is the spin being concocted to lay the blame anywhere but where it belongs?

There are also some of us who will bend over backwards trying to make it in no way Ross and/or the club's fault, in any way, shape or form.

If it was a standard question asked of the playing group by Ross, it would hardly have been, allegedly, mentioned to Greig by Ray Ball.

Clearly it was something else.

[Lennon]

In the same vein as my previous post, gotta love how Luke Ball is suddenly and universally accepted on here as being a "fringe player", GOP, in some instances a dud.

If you'd said that even two weeks ago, you'd probably have been lynched.

Suddenly Luke Ball is no good, has been no good for years, and Ross Lyon was trying to put acid on his "fringe player" ahead of the GF, by asking him to give him one reason to play him.

Hell, I can think of reasons, and I can think of a few reasons why he should have played more than two quarters too.

[Mr Magic]

I can see people starting to believe the spin/pr/bs because 'Luke Ball is a great guy and it surely couldn't be his fault'.

Why is it so difficult to accept that this is most likely a farked-up contract negotiation by Paul Connors and what we are now seeing is the spin being concocted to lay the blame anywhere but where it belongs?

There are also some of us who will bend over backwards trying to make it in no way Ross and/or the club's fault, in any way, shape or form.

If it was a standard question asked of the playing group by Ross, it would hardly have been, allegedly, mentioned to Greig by Ray Ball.

Clearly it was something else.

no Lennon, I'm confident I can smell BS when it's produced, and what I've been seeing, hearing and reading this week stinks to high heaven.
And guess what - it'a all coming from the same place - Paul Connors.

Ray Ball has an axe to grind - his son has been valued at half of what he was previously by the Club.

Ray Ball had probably just been told that his son didn't get to Collingwood where he could earn 500k becasue St Kilda wouldn't bend over and 'cop it'.

My suggsestion is that if you know any of the Saints players, go ask them what they think.
I reckon you might get a shock.

[desertsaint]

It's about protecting the ineterests of the club, and not Luke.

disagree - it's about protecting the interests of both - fortius quo fidelius runs two ways!
luke ball put his body on the line year after year for this club. he's not simply a commodity.
it's a poor situation, with the club and luke both currently losing out.
some proper respectful mediation is called for.

[joffaboy]

It's about protecting the ineterests of the club, and not Luke.

disagree - it's about protecting the interests of both - fortius quo fidelius runs two ways!
luke ball put his body on the line year after year for this club. he's not simply a commodity.
it's a poor situation, with the club and luke both currently losing out.
some proper respectful mediation is called for.

Both parties are being respected.

St.Kilda were respecting yours and my interests by standing their ground.

Luke Balls interests are being respected as well. He still has the choice that every other single out of contract AFL player has - the ND or the PSD.

Actually he has one more - where he sucks it up and has the intestinal fortitude to look the mates he WALKED OUT ON in the eyes and commit to the Saints flag in 2010 and do whatever it takes.

Is Ball a team player or is it all about the individual?

Up to you Luke.

[DJKCR]

I just want to say a couple of things

Whether he wanted to go or not:
I thought Luke said in the paper when he announced he wanted to go to Collingwood that he would be on less money than what was on the offer that was on the Table in July. But he wanted to feel that his contribution was more and that is what Collingwood was offering.

Paul Connors:
Should be given an uppercut for allowing/telling Luke to inform the club he only wanted to go to Collingwood. I don't think he was money chasing as apparently the deal was for less, but he tied our hands together in trying to get a deal for Luke. Paul is a grown up and knew that Darren Jolly was in the Pies sights and should have told Luke that and that a deal was going to be a lot harder.

Ross Lyon:
I am happy with Ross's call people (internet/talkback radio) keep on carrying on about what he said after the GF that anyone that doesn't want to be at the club will be moved on. Radio over here in WA keep on bringing it up and saying that he didn't when he had the chance. But in my opinion Ross is going to be true to his word and send him on his way to the PSD. And who could blame him after this whole frigging debacle. Lets face it Luke's heart isn't in it. I don't care we got bugger all for him at least we show the other clubs were aren't here to be screwed and any available opportunity

Collingwood Supporters, Media and every other clown:
Keep on carrying on that we should have taken pick 30 hey we would of if the bulldogs would have passed on Everitt for it, hell we would have take pick 99 if the Bulldogs were going to deal for it. It didn't happen we didn't get what we want stiff s@*t to everyone else

I thought my world was going to implode when we lost Plugger but hey I am still here and so is the Club. If we can get through that then I am sure I can get over losing Luke.

I love Luke Ball as much as the next person around here and thought he was smarter than this, but if your heart isn't in it then beat it. And If I hear another person say that his heart bled red black and white I am going to deadset spew!! As someone thats heart does pump Red Black and White there is no way that I would have passed up a three year contract to go play for someone else. Whether I had a personality clash with the coach or not. Because I love the Stkilda FC!!!

[joffaboy]

Good post.

Your point one.

Yes that was the spin even though that it had been leaked by someone (now who would be involved with contract negotiations???) to Denham that Collingwood had offered Ball $500k.

this was obviously to try to up the three year deal money that was probably300-350k offered by the Saints.

Then when he has rejected the three year offer and wants to be traded it is again "leaked" that he is on less money at Collingwood.

Therefore we must have offered more than $500k a year if the "leaks" are to be believed

spin spin spin.

As the spin is now that Luke is the poor victim and the STKFC is the villian.

Well bad luck and well done STKFC.

As RL said "we stood our ground".

[St Fidelius]

Yes good post DJKCR...

But I still can't believe that no other Club approached Paul Connors or Luke Ball.

If any Club had an interest in Ball, they would have been approached.

IMO with the inclusion of Lovett and the increasing improvement of Armatage, Ball would not have been in our best 22. Ball knew that and chose to leave to a side where he will be in the best 22.

[Mr Magic]

Yes good post DJKCR...

But I still can't believe that no other Club approached Paul Connors or Luke Ball.

If any Club had an interest in Ball, they would have been approached.

IMO with the inclusion of Lovett and the increasing improvement of Armatage, Ball would not have been in our best 22. Ball knew that and chose to leave to a side where he will be in the best 22.

and where he reportedly was offered 500k, well above what the contract offer was at St Kilda.

[bobmurray]

Luke and his management now know he is not valued very highly amongst
the other AFL clubs,if he was,then a trade would have happened...

Suddenly Luke has little bargaining power at StKilda if he wanted to negotiaite a new deal...maybe he can sign for a year and try again during trade week next year but if he has another poor year then he wouldn't even be worth pick 60......

amazing how the game passed him by......

[asiu]

it's about protecting the interests of both - fortius quo fidelius runs two ways!
luke ball put his body on the line year after year for this club. he's not simply a commodity.

agreed , and as it should be

[Spinner]

Does anyone else think RL could have handled the interview immediately after walking out of discussion room just after2pm yesterday.

In relation to the 3 year contract being recinded etc

Might it have been better to say the list management dept now that trading has been completed will be reviewing player contracts etc

The MEDIA in many articles/news and talkback today have really highlighted the withdrawal and the impact that would be having on LB and surrounding support

just seems to come across reflecting the club poorly

On another note pisses me off how the media making us out as the villan in the non trade........

Coll made promises (I pressume) to get him........when jolly became available he became the focus (and used the draft 14 pick that would have clinched the ball trade)

Like picking the puppy in the window and just as you about to leave with it it is put back because the kid picks the one in the next window.

How stupid do we look as an organisation to leave a contract on the table that was clearly not good enough to begin with....

I thought it had to be a given.

[Mr Magic]

Does anyone else think RL could have handled the interview immediately after walking out of discussion room just after2pm yesterday.

In relation to the 3 year contract being recinded etc

Might it have been better to say the list management dept now that trading has been completed will be reviewing player contracts etc

The MEDIA in many articles/news and talkback today have really highlighted the withdrawal and the impact that would be having on LB and surrounding support

just seems to come across reflecting the club poorly

On another note pisses me off how the media making us out as the villan in the non trade........

Coll made promises (I pressume) to get him........when jolly became available he became the focus (and used the draft 14 pick that would have clinched the ball trade)

Like picking the puppy in the window and just as you about to leave with it it is put back because the kid picks the one in the next window.

How stupid do we look as an organisation to leave a contract on the table that was clearly not good enough to begin with....

I thought it had to be a given.

Who said it wasn't good enough?
Luke Ball's manager.
The same manager who now claims St Kilda's offer was more than Collingwood's.

You can't have it both ways.

[PaulieGa]

As I said in a post on a different thread fitness seemed to be his problem.

If suddenly in the grand final he had more fitness and could play more game time than in previous weeks then why couldn't he put this effort in during previous weeks?

[PJ]

bottom line

Who gives a rats whether we look like the bad guys - time we had this rep permanently - fear St.Kilda

St.Kilda got their man - A Lovett in trade

Ball - gets to think about himself, his manager and how he wants to end his career

Overall good outcome A+

[St Fidelius]

bottom line

Who gives a rats whether we look like the bad guys - time we had this rep permanently - fear St.Kilda

St.Kilda got their man - A Lovett in trade

Ball - gets to think about himself, his manager and how he wants to end his career

Overall good outcome A+

Too right!

Geelong offered Essendon their first pick last year and was knocked back, Lovett just played his best season to date, and we grabbed him with the same offer Geelong did last year.

A Great win!

[bob__71]

I dont know why people would be surprised by Lyon asking Ball why he should play in the GF.

Everyone would have known Luke was looking at leaving.

What was Balls answer? Because it somehow got him a game.