He wanted to stay!

[Mr Magic]

Hes a very proud guy, a very loyal kid - dont forget he was one of the main guys taking offers less than his worth and keeping the group together after 2004/2005 - but he wants to play football.

$600K is taking less than he is worth.....??

It was a back-ended contract. He was paid $600K this year (reportedly).

You would need to know how much he was paid in the first year/s of the contract to judge whether he has been over/underpaid over the course of the contract period.

Well something's not quite right here?
We have been reliably informed by Connors' mouthpiece Greg Denham that Collingwood were going to pay him 500k and that the Saints had offered him more than Collingwood.
Now we're being told that our offer to him was on vastly less money thatn the reputed 600k he earned this year (last year in a back-ended contract).

Can someone please axplain all these 'facts' to me so that they make sense:-
He was on 600k
Collingwood offered him 500k
We offered him more than Collingwood
Our offer to him was well below what he was earning.

There are far too many stories coming out of Ball/Connors/Ball's camp to make me believe that the Saints have 'shafted' Luke Ball.
No on the balance of probabilities we have here another case of a player manager stuffing up a player through mishandling a contract renegotiation and then dreaming up scenarios to shift the blame anywhere but his own doorstep.
IMHO luke Ball bears some responsibility because he's chosen to listen to Connors'.
'Ball's camp' probably bears even more responsibility then Luke becasue they're adults and they should have more life experience than Luke.

[Moods]

While he was offered a new deal (on a greatly reduced salary, obviously) he was told that he probably wouldnt be getting a huge amount of game time and that they would be quietly seeking a trade IF they could get a good deal for him.


.

Really? Why would the club say that they had a 3 year contract on the table then? As Others have said, if he wasn't required why would they picking him in the first place? Why would Lyon come out and say publicly he was a required player?

Hes a very proud guy, a very loyal kid - dont forget he was one of the main guys taking offers less than his worth and keeping the group together after 2004/2005 - but he wants to play football.

Anyone calling him a Judas is a deadset flog.

Offers less than he's worth? He was on 600k this year. At the time of signing of his contract, that may have been what he was worth, but it certainly wasn't less than he was worth. Ball himself would have to agree that now that is far more than he's worth.

As for the contract: its pretty normal for players to wait until the season is over before negotiating on new contracts. In fact its highly irregular for a high profile player to do this during a season - especially when finals and premierships are on the line.

Rooey must be highly irregular then, b/c he signed his contract mid year and committed for the rest of his playing career.

I reckon what happened is that Ball refused to sign the contract hoping that his form picked up and could then ask the club for a better contract. THis didn't occur b/c his form didn't pick up, so he decided to look elsewhere.

Why has Ball allowed statements attributed to him or his family get to the press saying that his future at the saints is untenable? If not true why doesn't seek to quash those statements?

What's that saying about how you learn more about ppl during the bad times than you ever do during the good times?

[Thinline]

The whole thing is extraordinarily unsavoury.

Bad management, bad self-assessment, bad PR, bad club to be trying to deal with...

Badness all over.

[SainterK]

Don't like this Connors fellow

[Moods]

Don't like this Connors fellow

Sorry. But for me it's all too easy to blame the big bad managers. Ball is 25yrs old and a highly intelligent man. Managers are just the mouthpieces. Surely he is advising his manager of what he wants, not vica versa. Yes Connors would have given his =expert' opinion of the lie of the land, but the decision to do anything would have been Balls.

Ball is NOT some naive 18 yr old kid.

[SainterK]

Don't like this Connors fellow

Sorry. But for me it's all too easy to blame the big bad managers. Ball is 25yrs old and a highly intelligent man. Managers are just the mouthpieces. Surely he is advising his manager of what he wants, not vica versa. Yes Connors would have given his =expert' opinion of the lie of the land, but the decision to do anything would have been Balls.

Ball is NOT some naive 18 yr old kid.

Sure, that being said, I STILL don't like this Connors fellow

[Mr Magic]

Don't like this Connors fellow

Isn't he Judd's manager also?
And he was Fev's until this year?

It will be interesting to see how he rationalizes all this to his Saints clients - Ball and Maguire.

I'm sure he'll figure out a way of blaming the Saints (whether warranted or not) for this whole fiasco surrounding Ball.

He's obviously also done a really good job of finding Goose a new home.

[joffaboy]

Ball wanted to stay?

Well now he has the oportunity to match this rhetoric heasn't he????

[parky]

Luke (and perhaps his family as well) have to come to terms with the fact that his teenage/early twenty's are gone. He quite obviously is no longer viewed as a top 3 draft pick.....ie if Luke Hodge or Chris Judd were still available they would command the number 1 or 2 draft pick. Collingwood "wanted" him but didn't "demand" that he got there. For goodness sake a 27+ year old from Port Adelaide with major injury concerns was pursued with the vigour of an Aaron Davey chase down (hopefully an Andrew Lovett chase down for us next year). i believe it is a case of lowering expectations from what "might of been" rather than "what is". I'ts a hard thing to do but Luke I hope you you can take the "getting promoted to your level of incompetence" view" of the world. For goodness sake you are a more capable footballer than Steven Baker or Clinton Jones but you just need to view that is the level you are now are and adapt accordingly as they have done from a younger age. We want you at St Kilda as a premiership player so I hope you can stay and grow from this experience.....

[rodgerfox]

So why was he put up for trade?

Why wouldn't he be?

Spent a good chunk of the year in the 2s, then warmed the pine for half the GF.

To have an on-baller sit out that much of the game in such a high intensity match is clearly a sign he wasn't rated.

Whether it was Lyon, or someone else in charge of midfield rotations that doesn't rate him, is the only question I have.

But someone didn't. That's pretty obvious. Of you're not going to play him, get rid of him!

if he wasn't rated, why pick him in the first place?

Now that is a good question.

How do you rate him?

Highly.

His GF was excellent, and he was a key figure in the reason we were blowing them away in general play for the first half.

Our use of him is odd though.

We drop him, for no apparent reason. Then he starts in the centre in a GF!!

Plays very, very well - including run down tackles, hard ball gets and accurate kicking. Kicking beyond 30metres too.

Then he ends up warming the pine for over half the game!!

Then, after the match Lyon concedes he should have played more but intimates there was a reason for it that was beyond his control.


Then, Luke apparently wants to leave!


Something isn't right. We rate him, otherwise he wouldn't start in the guts in a GF.
But then we only play him for a half?

We say he's a required player, but he wants to leave?


It just doesn't make alot of sense.

[SainterK]

So why was he put up for trade?

Why wouldn't he be?

Spent a good chunk of the year in the 2s, then warmed the pine for half the GF.

To have an on-baller sit out that much of the game in such a high intensity match is clearly a sign he wasn't rated.

Whether it was Lyon, or someone else in charge of midfield rotations that doesn't rate him, is the only question I have.

But someone didn't. That's pretty obvious. Of you're not going to play him, get rid of him!

if he wasn't rated, why pick him in the first place?

Now that is a good question.

How do you rate him?

Highly.

His GF was excellent, and he was a key figure in the reason we were blowing them away in general play for the first half.

Our use of him is odd though.

We drop him, for no apparent reason. Then he starts in the centre in a GF!!

Plays very, very well - including run down tackles, hard ball gets and accurate kicking. Kicking beyond 30metres too.

Then he ends up warming the pine for over half the game!!

Then, after the match Lyon concedes he should have played more but intimates there was a reason for it that was beyond his control.


Then, Luke apparently wants to leave!


Something isn't right. We rate him, otherwise he wouldn't start in the guts in a GF.
But then we only play him for a half?

We say he's a required player, but he wants to leave?


It just doesn't make alot of sense.

I think your last line is about the most accurate opinion you have ever posted

[Leo.J]

...Highly.

His GF was excellent, and he was a key figure in the reason we were blowing them away in general play for the first half.

Our use of him is odd though.

We drop him, for no apparent reason. Then he starts in the centre in a GF!!

Plays very, very well - including run down tackles, hard ball gets and accurate kicking. Kicking beyond 30metres too.

Then he ends up warming the pine for over half the game!!

Then, after the match Lyon concedes he should have played more but intimates there was a reason for it that was beyond his control.


Then, Luke apparently wants to leave!


Something isn't right. We rate him, otherwise he wouldn't start in the guts in a GF.
But then we only play him for a half?

We say he's a required player, but he wants to leave?


It just doesn't make alot of sense.

Agreed

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Ah, so much unsubstantiated xxxxx.

The request and lack of trade mean very little other than other clubs being unwilling to offer a better outcome to St Kilda than seeing Luke Ball play for Melbourne - remember, getting a hack whose gone in 2-3 years from Collingwood would be no better (almost worse) than nothing, and Collingwood are a finals rival.

The non-signature on a 3 year deal at reduced pay means nothing. Luke Ball has just had the worst - personal - year since his rookie season. It's no surprise that he doesn't want to sign a long term deal for a wage based on his last 12 months.

The likelier outcomes (i.e. now I'm speculating too) are that he either goes into the PSD (if he really wants to get away, or go somewhere he's more easily in the best 22) or signs a 1-year deal if we wants to stay/the club really wants him.

[saintm]

I don't really understand why more interest wasn't shown in Luke by other Clubs.

I know that he nominated Collingwood as the Club he wished to be traded to but Fev nominated St Kilda and Collingwood and he is going to Brisbane.

Not sure that I heard that anyone else was interested or had approached the Saints to discuss Luke and surely you don't "put all your eggs in one basket" when the outcome is beyond your control.

Thoughts anyone??

[satchmo]

While he was offered a new deal (on a greatly reduced salary, obviously) he was told that he probably wouldnt be getting a huge amount of game time and that they would be quietly seeking a trade IF they could get a good deal for him.

Luke wants to play football for St.Kilda. He LOVES the club, he LOVES the boys but Luke wants to PLAY football first and foremost - its not about money or anything else.

Hes a very proud guy, a very loyal kid - dont forget he was one of the main guys taking offers less than his worth and keeping the group together after 2004/2005 - but he wants to play football.

Anyone calling him a Judas is a deadset flog.

As for the contract: its pretty normal for players to wait until the season is over before negotiating on new contracts. In fact its highly irregular for a high profile player to do this during a season - especially when finals and premierships are on the line.

I really want to believe this. But I am struggling with it at the mo.

[Mr Magic]

I don't really understand why more interest wasn't shown in Luke by other Clubs.

I know that he nominated Collingwood as the Club he wished to be traded to but Fev nominated St Kilda and Collingwood and he is going to Brisbane.

Not sure that I heard that anyone else was interested or had approached the Saints to discuss Luke and surely you don't "put all your eggs in one basket" when the outcome is beyond your control.

Thoughts anyone??

I heard Ratten say on SEN that they had no interest in him becasue they'd done a deal on McLean and that they were basically the same type of player.

It would seem he only has 'currency' at Clubs who don't have sufficient good 'in and under' mids.

Melbourne
Freo
Collingwood
Port Adelaide

There's also the problem of his reported Collingwood salary of 500k (not as much as the Saints offered him!!!!). That is a huge chunk of salary cap to find for him.

[SaintWodonga]

He may not see finals actions for years (if he goes to the Dees). Big price to pay for not being able to follow the coaches instructions.

[Mr Magic]

He may not see finals actions for years (if he goes to the Dees). Big price to pay for not being able to follow the coaches instructions.

Or wanting to follow the coaches instructions?

If he's physically not able to follow them then we must jettison him in favour of someone who can.

Or get rid of the coaches' gameplan.
ANd that would be a sorry case of the tail wagging the dog.

[SainterK]

I don't really understand why more interest wasn't shown in Luke by other Clubs.

I know that he nominated Collingwood as the Club he wished to be traded to but Fev nominated St Kilda and Collingwood and he is going to Brisbane.

Not sure that I heard that anyone else was interested or had approached the Saints to discuss Luke and surely you don't "put all your eggs in one basket" when the outcome is beyond your control.

Thoughts anyone??

I think personally, because the action Ross took with Luke this year was for the betterment of Luke and the St Kilda football club long term....no-one else.

[Winmarvellous]

Personally I think he needs to realise he's just not an A-grade talent anymore. He's become a GOP due to his injuries, and doesn't look to be getting any better. Sure, he may have a big game every once in a while, but his best days are behind him. Ross sees this, and uses him as a burst player. If he can't see out of his rose-coloured glasses and learn to live with his inadequacies, let him go. No great loss atm to be honest.

[bigred]

lols.


Ball is a gun. Make no mistake about that.

A lot of clubs have inside mids of decent standards.

Burgoyne can be a match winner. Horses for courses.

Honestly though, I reckon CJ would have demanded more attention than Bally got.

Your currency is only as good as your last season. Luke had a good GF, but his season as a whole was average....across the whole comp it was average.

[satchmo]

lols.


Ball is a gun. Make no mistake about that.

A lot of clubs have inside mids of decent standards.

Burgoyne can be a match winner. Horses for courses.

Honestly though, I reckon CJ would have demanded more attention than Bally got.

Your currency is only as good as your last season. Luke had a good GF, but his season as a whole was average....across the whole comp it was average.

Bingo

[SaintDebi]

If this is true (and it seems many of you know and trust the OP), then I hate to think how Luke must be feeling.
Even without this info if he remains a Saint I would support him, but it wouldn't have felt the "same" because I would have been thonking he was only there because no one else would have him.
Regardless of if this info is acurate or not though, it has opened my eyes to the reality that Luke may actually want to stay and if that is the case he must be in turmoil.
Whatever the outcome, I hope Luke is given the opportunity to play some great footy somewhere, and be happy.

[bigcarl]

Lyon himself came out and said publically he was disappointed that Ball wanted out.

he did, too. that's about as reliable a source as you can get.

[saint75]

Also, if it is true that Ball wanted to stay, Ross really hung himself out to dry today with his comments shortly after trade period finished. Surely he would not be so stupid....??

Anyhoo, I am tipping that Ball will be signed up within 2 weeks. There, I said it. I may bookmark this thread so that once the announcement comes through I can refer back to it......