You and I may have a similar source. 'Untenable' after a meeting prior to the Grand Final? Ball family not happy?joffaboy wrote:Yeah it is a shame but apparently his family dont believe the opportunity to play in a GF or to play with his mates for the next three years was any good.Saints43 wrote:That is sad. I was really hoping a trade couldn't be done and Luke would sit down with the club and thrash out their problems. That he could sign a new performance based contract with assurances of an improve deal once the coaches were satisfied that he deserved one.SENsaintsational wrote:Any hope of a reconciliation seems dashed going by reports in today's Herald Sun that the relationship between Ball and Ross Lyon is 'untenable'.
I'm sure a fringe player at any club would not have the best relationship with the coach, but sad to hear nonetheless.
It's Ross's way or the Highway....
And so it should be.
Apparently his relationship is now untenable with Ross Lyon because Lyon did his job and in his opinion Ball wasn't doing what was required.
Sad it had to end this way - but hey Conners will be happy - Ball will get more from Collingwood (Denham reported that Collingwood were offering $500k a year - we were nowhere near that) and he will get more of a cut than he would have at the Saints.
Always a silver lining for someone in trade week.
No deal with Magpies over Ball, says Lyon
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EXACTLY!!! Had Luke come out openly and honestly and said that he felt he would have struggled to get a game with us next year and decided to move on to a team that would offer him a greater opportunities, most St Kilda fans would have been extremely upset, but would have wished him well. He WAS one of our favourite sons and the reaction to him leaving would have been similar to that of Campbell Brown outcry from Hawthorn supporters yesterday.Mr Magic wrote: It's not the decision to leave that I object to.
My objection is to the deliberate attempts to belittle/damage St Kilda for no other apprent reason than to obfuscate the real motive for the move - money.
However, this is not the case with Luke. He and his management/family have deliberately tried to cause damage with the statements and leaks coming out of his camp and he has won no friends in doing so. Would be interesting to see what his team mates think the current situation.
I am really disappointed in Luke and so are many long time Saints fans. Good riddance to him. We won't miss a beat with him gone. The same cannot be said of Luke's career going forward. He has hung himself out to dry and has no one to blame but himself.
Fortius Quo Fidelius
Stinger....you make me uncomfortable when you imply that there was intent behind his game time being reduced more than his was capable on GF day....stinger wrote:and that ball was capable of playing more game than he was being given ffs.....
...his role was reduced below what he was capable of on the day....that's obvious...whether it was intentional or not who knows....
That is a very dangerous call to make, you would want to be sure that it wasn't a simple mistake, if you are willing to put it out there that it was vindictive?
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Milton66
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I wrote way back when Luke was dropped that a source close to his mother revealed that he was unhappy at the time about his lack of game time.
Whether or not he was dropped because of an attitude problem, I don't know.
Whether he had a 1 on 1 with the coach and was dropped so he could work on his fitness or whatever, I also don't know.
Fact is that there were problems brewing back then.
Either way, the club sent him back to Sandy to work on something.
At Sandy, he wasn't exactly BOG for all the games he played.
So why would they bring him back for the finals? And why was the contract left on the table for Luke, even though he didn't accept it?
I'd say that the club, on the face of it, has done everything to keep Luke.
If Luke didn't like the paycut, then he really needs to look at his form.
As Magic stated, this has been going on long before the finals... and an rotation stuff up on GF was not the catalyst.
That said, I fail to see what the club coul dhave done differently. PAy him more? Even though his form suggests otherwise? Guarantee him game time? Yep, that sends a great message to the team.
Fairdinkum, some people should take the sentimental glasses off and see this for what it is.
Whether or not he was dropped because of an attitude problem, I don't know.
Whether he had a 1 on 1 with the coach and was dropped so he could work on his fitness or whatever, I also don't know.
Fact is that there were problems brewing back then.
Either way, the club sent him back to Sandy to work on something.
At Sandy, he wasn't exactly BOG for all the games he played.
So why would they bring him back for the finals? And why was the contract left on the table for Luke, even though he didn't accept it?
I'd say that the club, on the face of it, has done everything to keep Luke.
If Luke didn't like the paycut, then he really needs to look at his form.
As Magic stated, this has been going on long before the finals... and an rotation stuff up on GF was not the catalyst.
That said, I fail to see what the club coul dhave done differently. PAy him more? Even though his form suggests otherwise? Guarantee him game time? Yep, that sends a great message to the team.
Fairdinkum, some people should take the sentimental glasses off and see this for what it is.
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This would seem a reasonable question.Mr Magic wrote:
And I renew the question.
Who was talking to Collingwood weeks ago, well before the GF, enough for Denham to write articles about Ball and Collingwood?
And if this was going on before the GF - did that mean we had a player not fully committed on that day?
Not saying that is the case - many players have played in GF's and have left soon after. Just wondering how many possibly knew before the biggest game of their lives that they would pull the plug on their mates?
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
no i'm not doing that...although now that you mention it....his value would have gone up if he had won the grand final for us....but everyone would have been ecstatic with that club and coaches included...no i take ross's word that it was a mistake...not sure about him saying that it wasn't his mistake though.....SainterK wrote:Stinger....you make me uncomfortable when you imply that there was intent behind his game time being reduced more than his was capable on GF day....stinger wrote:and that ball was capable of playing more game than he was being given ffs.....
...his role was reduced below what he was capable of on the day....that's obvious...whether it was intentional or not who knows....
That is a very dangerous call to make, you would want to be sure that it wasn't a simple mistake, if you are willing to put it out there that it was vindictive?
i meant intentional in the sense that he would have or would not have been better than those given the ground time...ross stated it was an oversight ...but who knows what the mid field coach was thinking.....
Last edited by stinger on Thu 08 Oct 2009 11:44am, edited 1 time in total.
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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Mr Magic
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But Joffa, another question intrigues me.joffaboy wrote:This would seem a reasonable question.Mr Magic wrote:
And I renew the question.
Who was talking to Collingwood weeks ago, well before the GF, enough for Denham to write articles about Ball and Collingwood?
And if this was going on before the GF - did that mean we had a player not fully committed on that day?
Not saying that is the case - many players have played in GF's and have left soon after. Just wondering how many possibly knew before the biggest game of their lives that they would pull the plug on their mates?
Would Collingwood make an offer of 500k for a midfielder that has a terrible history of OP without doing a medical/physical on him?
I cannot (will not) believe that they are so unprofessional as to offer the contract without finding out for themselves whether he is capable of fulfilling tha playing role they are paying him for?
SO when was that done?
After the GF - possible
After the B&F - Sunday or Monday are the only 2 days possible as by Tuesday he already requested the Trade.
BUT Denham has been writing about Collingwood and Ball fro weeks?
DOes that meant they did their due dilligence prior to the offer? When he was still uinder contract to teh Saints?
As I said earlier, there are aspects of this whole saga that stink.
I suppose the whole thing hinges on the leaks the manager was giving Denham.Mr Magic wrote: But Joffa, another question intrigues me.
Would Collingwood make an offer of 500k for a midfielder that has a terrible history of OP without doing a medical/physical on him?
I cannot (will not) believe that they are so unprofessional as to offer the contract without finding out for themselves whether he is capable of fulfilling tha playing role they are paying him for?
SO when was that done?
After the GF - possible
After the B&F - Sunday or Monday are the only 2 days possible as by Tuesday he already requested the Trade.
BUT Denham has been writing about Collingwood and Ball fro weeks?
DOes that meant they did their due dilligence prior to the offer? When he was still uinder contract to teh Saints?
As I said earlier, there are aspects of this whole saga that stink.
Denham " Now Paul is Luke being offered more at Collingwood than the Siants offer"
Conners "No comment"
Denham "OK.I'll ask a question and if you dont answer I'll take that as a yes - you understand?"
Conners " "
Denham "OK. Has Luke been offered more than $400k?"
Conners " "
Denham " $500k?"
Conners " "
Denham "More than half a million?
Conners "Well I cant comment"
Denham then has a figure.
Who knows if this is true of if it was to pressure the Saints into upping the contract.
One thing though is that if Collingwood has had Ball having physicals and negotiating contracts before trade week - this is outside of the rules.
But lest not be naiive. This would happen all the time.
Still it would be interesting to know if Ball was working with Collingwood prior to the Grand Final.
If so....well
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
Perhaps the coaching staff's entire thought process was not obsessed about appeasing Luke Ball with a little more TOG?stinger wrote:no i'm not doing that...although now that you mention it....his value would have gone up if he had won the grand final for us....but everyone would have been ecstatic with that club and coaches included...no i take ross's word that it was a mistake...not sure about him saying that it wasn't his mistake though.....SainterK wrote:Stinger....you make me uncomfortable when you imply that there was intent behind his game time being reduced more than his was capable on GF day....stinger wrote:and that ball was capable of playing more game than he was being given ffs.....
...his role was reduced below what he was capable of on the day....that's obvious...whether it was intentional or not who knows....
That is a very dangerous call to make, you would want to be sure that it wasn't a simple mistake, if you are willing to put it out there that it was vindictive?
i meant intentional in the sense that he would have or would not have been better than those given the ground time...ross stated it was an oversight ...but who knows what the mid field coach was thinking.....
s*** yes...they had more important things on their mind,,,but they are still not supposed to drop the ball so to speak....SainterK wrote:Perhaps the coaching staff's entire thought process was not obsessed about appeasing Luke Ball with a little more TOG?stinger wrote:no i'm not doing that...although now that you mention it....his value would have gone up if he had won the grand final for us....but everyone would have been ecstatic with that club and coaches included...no i take ross's word that it was a mistake...not sure about him saying that it wasn't his mistake though.....SainterK wrote:Stinger....you make me uncomfortable when you imply that there was intent behind his game time being reduced more than his was capable on GF day....stinger wrote:and that ball was capable of playing more game than he was being given ffs.....
...his role was reduced below what he was capable of on the day....that's obvious...whether it was intentional or not who knows....
That is a very dangerous call to make, you would want to be sure that it wasn't a simple mistake, if you are willing to put it out there that it was vindictive?
i meant intentional in the sense that he would have or would not have been better than those given the ground time...ross stated it was an oversight ...but who knows what the mid field coach was thinking.....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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Mr Magic
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That's what is intriguing me.joffaboy wrote:
Still it would be interesting to know if Ball was working with Collingwood prior to the Grand Final.
If so....well
All this 'gnashing of teeth' over 'poor Luke' having to find another home because 'bad old Ross Lyon' wasn't giving him what he deserved.
Maybe we should get all the facts before we pillory any party on here (and that includes Ball). At the moment though the gossip/inuendo/spin being portrayed as facts seems to be going one way.
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Eastern
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The timing is interesting here.Mr Magic wrote:That's what is intriguing me.joffaboy wrote:
Still it would be interesting to know if Ball was working with Collingwood prior to the Grand Final.
If so....well
All this 'gnashing of teeth' over 'poor Luke' having to find another home because 'bad old Ross Lyon' wasn't giving him what he deserved.
Maybe we should get all the facts before we pillory any party on here (and that includes Ball). At the moment though the gossip/inuendo/spin being portrayed as facts seems to be going one way.
The GF loss, followed by a week of grieving, followed by the B&F, then comes the 1st day of trade week and Luke wants to go to Collingwood. The manager would have been working with Collingwood for some time on this. It would take a fair bit to convince me that Luke didn't know about it prior to even the Prelim.
Come to think of it. Some of the things Luke said at the family day (in hindsight) suggested he already had plans in place !!
NEW scarf signature (hopefully with correct spelling) will be here as soon as it arrives !!
Dal Santo and Milne played very well for their new clubs this season apparently.SainterK wrote:Because being dropped from a side is something that is exclusive to Ross Lyon and St Kilda?
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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Milton66
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Is that you Velvet?SainterK wrote:Because being dropped from a side is something that is exclusive to Ross Lyon and St Kilda?stinger wrote:yep eastern..i would say he started making them around the time he got dropped the first time.....
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Milton66
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And Gram almost won a Norm Smith at his new club.joffaboy wrote:Dal Santo and Milne played very well for their new clubs this season apparently.SainterK wrote:Because being dropped from a side is something that is exclusive to Ross Lyon and St Kilda?
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Eastern
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Working out a deal to go to a rival club during the season would take time. Working out a deal to go to a rival club when BOTH clubs are in the finals would take even longer !!SainterK wrote:Because being dropped from a side is something that is exclusive to Ross Lyon and St Kilda?stinger wrote:yep eastern..i would say he started making them around the time he got dropped the first time.....
NEW scarf signature (hopefully with correct spelling) will be here as soon as it arrives !!
well I dont blame them for leaving after being dropped.Milton66 wrote:And Gram almost won a Norm Smith at his new club.joffaboy wrote:Dal Santo and Milne played very well for their new clubs this season apparently.SainterK wrote:Because being dropped from a side is something that is exclusive to Ross Lyon and St Kilda?
I have never heard of anyone ever being dropped before.
I am amazed Bradman didn't go and play for England when he was dropped after his first test
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
no...but it is now obvious that he didn't react the same.....SainterK wrote:Because being dropped from a side is something that is exclusive to Ross Lyon and St Kilda?stinger wrote:yep eastern..i would say he started making them around the time he got dropped the first time.....
geez there are some fools around here....not you sainterk...
Last edited by stinger on Thu 08 Oct 2009 12:34pm, edited 1 time in total.
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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I'm tipping his manager was in discussions just to suss out the options. I don't think Ball would have been personally shopping himself around. He would have been focussed on winning a flag.Eastern wrote:The timing is interesting here.Mr Magic wrote:That's what is intriguing me.joffaboy wrote:
Still it would be interesting to know if Ball was working with Collingwood prior to the Grand Final.
If so....well
All this 'gnashing of teeth' over 'poor Luke' having to find another home because 'bad old Ross Lyon' wasn't giving him what he deserved.
Maybe we should get all the facts before we pillory any party on here (and that includes Ball). At the moment though the gossip/inuendo/spin being portrayed as facts seems to be going one way.
The GF loss, followed by a week of grieving, followed by the B&F, then comes the 1st day of trade week and Luke wants to go to Collingwood. The manager would have been working with Collingwood for some time on this. It would take a fair bit to convince me that Luke didn't know about it prior to even the Prelim.
Come to think of it. Some of the things Luke said at the family day (in hindsight) suggested he already had plans in place !!
Connors was just doing what managers are paid to do.
25 minutes to make a name for yourself like you've never made before.