No deal with Magpies over Ball, says Lyon

[Milton66]

Can someone please clarify exactly how many games in the VFL did Goose actually "star" in?

[joffaboy]

the bullies and brown nosers on here don't frighten me....i call a spade a bloody shovel if it is warrented.....

Oh you big brave hero.

we won 20-22 in the H&A and was five minutes from the flag

And X wasn't starring in the VFL - he was getting back into form and would have been back in the seniors if he didn't do his knee.

He had hamstring problems early in the year.

Christ you are a silly OLD fool.

Go and abuse a woman or two you sickening old bully hypocrite all you are good for.

Cabbage

[Spinner]

[I struggle to see how Ball can be a fringe player for the second half of the year, but still be offered a three year contract?

.

The timing of the contract (June) may give you a clue.

If you believe this is about "game time" and not money - you are being had.

Ball wouldn't sign the contract because he hadn't performed like a $600k player - he wouldn't sign - and obviously his attitude was not up to standard and he was dropped.

How can you blame the coach for X??? He did his knee in and couldn't play. he also signed a contract with the Saints for next year.

Maybe he is like Ball and the new Saints is just a bit too hard for him.

So your saying that Ball was offered a revised contract of for example say 350k and he refused to sign it because he disagreed with it.....Obviously coming off 600k.

This and his attitude were responsible for his dropping?

There is a case that X deserved to be playing seniors after consecutive outstanding performances in the reserves.

[Badlands]

Traitor my arse. He's a professional footballer, not an indentured slave.

No-one can have any complaints with the service Bally has given to us since being drafted; he's given heart, soul and body to our cause. But none of us know of the conversations between coach and player; it's quite possible he's been told him playing time will remain less than 50%, and that's not what he wants. In a highly regulated industry the options to change clubs are limited, so IMO he's taking what actions he can to further his own career, as he's perfectly entitled to do.

The good old days of playing for the jumper are over people; it's unreasonable to expect them to still be in vogue. Professional players are entitled to maximise their earning and playing potential, and that's what Bally is attempting to do.

Are we as hostile to being the recipient of a player wishing to change clubs with Lovett's recruitment? (And BTW I'm delighted with that trade). If not, then where is the difference?

100% my sentiments exactly (at least in the absence of further information which i'm sure will emerge in good time).

[joffaboy]

Can someone please clarify exactly how many games in the VFL did Goose actually "star" in?

Ask stinger - that know all will tell you 99 and it is RL's fault he pulled a hammy when he was about to be selected in the seniors

Goose was a GOP thats all.

[stinger]

.

Hope that offended you because the fact that you even exist offends me.

i have similar feeling towards you book-keeper ...but if you take my advise and go play in the traffic ..one of us might get lucky


as i said before ..i don't give a rats for your worthless views on anything...football related or not.....you offend me.?...you wish....

[desertsaint]

?

Ball has a right to go - like any player - but to justify his leaving on supposition and your imagination.

Ball left for more money pure and simple. More game time pfft

Believe that and you believe anything.

are you 100% on that JB - or using supposition and your imagination?
At least stinger's call is based on what we know about luke over a long time frame - a quality person who always gave his best for the club.
personally i think he felt undervalued and no longer seen as leadership material by the coach - and the guy is a natural leader - so naturally wants to go somewhere where he can give more of himself.

i'm more than a little shocked by both the vitriol on here (not including you there) and the willingness to assume the worst of someone we all held in the highest regard (you, and many others).

[Spinner]

Can someone please clarify exactly how many games in the VFL did Goose actually "star" in?

Maybe clarify how frequently defenders 'star' full stop.

Or a more accurate clarification - Just how often a defenders game gets the credit it deserves......

[stinger]

Can someone please clarify exactly how many games in the VFL did Goose actually "star" in?

Ask stinger - that know all will tell you 99 and it is RL's fault he pulled a hammy when he was about to be selected in the seniors
.

gawd you talk crap....there is only one know all know nothing gosling around here...and it's also a would be if it could be internet hero as well ffs.....

[Iceman234]

Damn I gotta go out for a few hours.

By the time I get back this thread will either be in page 17 or locked.

Can someone keep me up to date on the summary of how it goes via my mobile...

PS Luke Ball and Xavier Clarke are both great blokes.

[stinger]

?

Ball has a right to go - like any player - but to justify his leaving on supposition and your imagination.

Ball left for more money pure and simple. More game time pfft

Believe that and you believe anything.

are you 100% on that JB - or using supposition and your imagination?
At least stinger's call is based on what we know about luke over a long time frame - a quality person who always gave his best for the club.
personally i think he felt undervalued and no longer seen as leadership material by the coach - and the guy is a natural leader - so naturally wants to go somewhere where he can give more of himself.

i'm more than a little shocked by both the vitriol on here (not including you there) and the willingness to assume the worst of someone we all held in the highest regard (you, and many others).

spot on..re ball comments.....ball is a fine young man...with excellent character...traits sadly lacking in some of ross' signings i'm afraid....but

good post..



ps........that particluar poster saves his vitriol for saints supporters and the occasional ex coach.....

[stinger]

Damn I gotta go out for a few hours.

By the time I get back this thread will either be in page 17 or locked.

Can someone keep me up to date on the summary of how it goes via my mobile...

PS Luke Ball and Xavier Clarke are both great blokes.

yes they are...

[stinger]

...at least some posters around here have a clue........i wouldn't be taking a 50% pay cut if that's what my employer was trying to do to me...and neither would most of you.....

[Lennon]

?

Ball has a right to go - like any player - but to justify his leaving on supposition and your imagination.

Ball left for more money pure and simple. More game time pfft

Believe that and you believe anything.

are you 100% on that JB - or using supposition and your imagination?
At least stinger's call is based on what we know about luke over a long time frame - a quality person who always gave his best for the club.
personally i think he felt undervalued and no longer seen as leadership material by the coach - and the guy is a natural leader - so naturally wants to go somewhere where he can give more of himself.

i'm more than a little shocked by both the vitriol on here (not including you there) and the willingness to assume the worst of someone we all held in the highest regard (you, and many others).

This.

+ everything Stinger has said.

[ace]

i don't hold bally responsible for wanting out...he is a p

Not having a go, just interested in your reasoning for this post...

i think he was gutted by the grandfinal loss and the coaches reluctance to use him properly on a day crying out for his in and under skills.......me too really....but hardly to the same extent.....

So you are saying he is a sook? So the GF was all about him?

A sook who not only refused to sign a three year contract - but then issues ultimatums to the club - I only want to be traded to Collingwood?

Ball has a right to go - like any player - but to justify his leaving on supposition and your imagination.

Ball left for more money pure and simple. More game time pfft

Believe that and you believe anything.

you really are clueless as well as offensive...well you attempt to be ...rather unsuccessfully i might add....
the filth have actually offered less money that the saints have.....so have another guess...

And the filth have offered nothing as a trade.

[Sainterman]

JB and Stinger settle down I reckon. We all have an opinion but we don't need to jam it down everyone else's throats.

Yes, Ball appears to be of strong character and good leadership material, I think even RL, who is being espoused as the one Luke had a problem with, said so himself. Or am I dreaming?

We won 19 straight, and all we know is that Luke and RL both agreed they were working on what Luke needed to do, and that this would be kept private. Both referred to on field rather than other issues off field. Perhaps it wasnt easy to have X and Goose break into the side. And these guys who we are saying were doing nothing were playing a role in a game plan that was clearly successful. Stats are not everything. We were so close to a flag...wish we had got there so some of these personal issues that spillover into here didn't.

My opinion is that I am disappointed, I know we don't have all the facts, but the one's we do have show Bally walking out and saying he wants to go to Collingwood, and only Collingwood. This to me is strange. Why only Collingwood?

[SaintWodonga]

How's about...
Luke Ball to Collingwood
Leon Davis to Fremantle
Brett Peake & Pick #20 to St Kilda

[Armoooo]

How's about...
Luke Ball to Collingwood
Leon Davis to Fremantle
Brett Peake & Pick #20 to St Kilda

Would rather pick 36 than 20 and Peake

[SuperSaint]

...at least some posters around here have a clue........i wouldn't be taking a 50% pay cut if that's what my employer was trying to do to me...and neither would most of you.....

Stinger, anyone on a good salary has to justify their pay. Out in the 'real world', no employer continues to pay you the same salary if your performance has dropped off significantly and has continued to do so. The club gave him a contract on the basis of his 07-09 form and he has baulked at it. How could they continue to give him a similar $$ based contract......Clinton Jones is now worth more than him in our salary cap structure and deservedly so.
Paul Connors has managed to negotiate an attractive offer with the Pies and good luck to Luke. They are willing to pay him more $$ (it is absolute crap that he will be on less money there) but they have to make a decent sacrifice to get him first. He knows his true dollar value in the scheme of our list now and he's not prepared at 26 years old to cop it sweet. That's what can often happen when a player in his early 20's has been fortunate to command a higher end salary and then unable to maintain or even improve his output as time goes on.

[mad saint guy]

I wouldn't mind this for a deal...

I wonder if there is any way we could get injury prone Jesse Smith involved in the deal too?

Perhaps something like -

Saints Get - 2nd Rounder (Coll), Nathan Brown and Jesse Smith
Saints Lose - Luke Ball 3rd Rounder

Ha! No chance in hell we'll even get Brown for Ball in a straight swap. Pies would want Ball, our 2nd rounder and another pick/player before considering trading Brown. And they won't let Jesse Smith go for a third round pick. He is very, very highly rated at North

[Moccha]

N Brown aint that good. What has he done?

[Spinner]

...at least some posters around here have a clue........i wouldn't be taking a 50% pay cut if that's what my employer was trying to do to me...and neither would most of you.....

Stinger, anyone on a good salary has to justify their pay. Out in the 'real world', no employer continues to pay you the same salary if your performance has dropped off significantly and has continued to do so. The club gave him a contract on the basis of his 07-09 form and he has baulked at it. How could they continue to give him a similar $$ based contract......Clinton Jones is now worth more than him in our salary cap structure and deservedly so.
Paul Connors has managed to negotiate an attractive offer with the Pies and good luck to Luke. They are willing to pay him more $$ (it is absolute crap that he will be on less money there) but they have to make a decent sacrifice to get him first. He knows his true dollar value in the scheme of our list now and he's not prepared at 26 years old to cop it sweet. That's what can often happen when a player in his early 20's has been fortunate to command a higher end salary and then unable to maintain or even improve his output as time goes on.

I like this post....Agree to certain extents but just the way reasonable discussion and opinion has been delivered is a real credit to you SuperSaint.

I wish all of Saintsational was like this - Being able to provide somewhat honest thoughts without getting howled down by those unable to express their own opinion.

[mad saint guy]

N Brown aint that good. What has he done?

Played some very good footy on quality forwards in his first two years. One of the best key defence prospects in the AFL.

[SuperSaint]

...at least some posters around here have a clue........i wouldn't be taking a 50% pay cut if that's what my employer was trying to do to me...and neither would most of you.....

Stinger, anyone on a good salary has to justify their pay. Out in the 'real world', no employer continues to pay you the same salary if your performance has dropped off significantly and has continued to do so. The club gave him a contract on the basis of his 07-09 form and he has baulked at it. How could they continue to give him a similar $$ based contract......Clinton Jones is now worth more than him in our salary cap structure and deservedly so.
Paul Connors has managed to negotiate an attractive offer with the Pies and good luck to Luke. They are willing to pay him more $$ (it is absolute crap that he will be on less money there) but they have to make a decent sacrifice to get him first. He knows his true dollar value in the scheme of our list now and he's not prepared at 26 years old to cop it sweet. That's what can often happen when a player in his early 20's has been fortunate to command a higher end salary and then unable to maintain or even improve his output as time goes on.

I like this post....Agree to certain extents but just the way reasonable discussion and opinion has been delivered is a real credit to you SuperSaint.

I wish all of Saintsational was like this - Being able to provide somewhat honest thoughts without getting howled down by those unable to express their own opinion.

Thanks Spinner.....I appreciate your comments also and what I find enjoyable in this forum is to be able to read and learn from the various views of passionate and often well informed saintsational forum members.

Personal attacks and unconstructive criticism are disappointing and unwarranted as all of us here (except the trolls of course ) have the StKilda Football Club and its quest for success in our best interests and in our hearts. Some of the best moments I have as memories in my life are those father/son bonding sessions we had at Moorabbin when I was a kid. Those days will never come back and as nice as the "Etihad Stadium" is compared to Linton Street in its heyday, my 11 year old son will never quite experience those magical Saturday afternoons I did with my dad.....when the corporate dollar and greed didn't matter as much.

[loris]

Hey Super Saint........is it spinner or stinger your reply is meant for