Another GT "Gem"... I agree 100%!

[SENsei]

Tosh had a bit of a liking for the drink.

Wasn't Tosh in the Spice Girls?

[cowboy18]

It's kind of ironic that Tosh is probably best known for imploring that we "Don't look back".


Good message for this week. As the great one used to say, E.E.S.

[Milton66]

I only agree with one thing Tim Lane ever said, because it suits my anti-GT agenda... read my sig.

The point was, Gaz, that journo's offer opinions. It's there job to generate interest.

They can't just say "too bad, it's the Saints. No point turning up". They gotta keep interest fuelled.

It's like when they call a game. People get all pantsy, but hey, it's their job to hype up the call to keep listeners... um... listening.

I agree with some, I disagree with others. In this case it was with GT.

So can someone please explain once and for all why it is such a mortal sin to question the comments of another journo simply because he is an ex-coach?

OMG... I'm starting to sound as sanctimoniuos as Plugger66.

[meher baba]

I mean seriously....boys grew into men and it is somehow amazing that SOME of the players improved physically????

It's also amazing that men may be better performing footballers than boys isn't it.

Only to you and MB.

And you forget that back in 2004 and 2005 there were plenty of men about as GTrain, Hamill, Banger, Powell, Thommo, Frankie and the like were not boys.

And that your line that Lyon is only benefiting from the players growing older is flawed because Gardi, King, Schneider, Eddy, Zac, Ray and CJ were not at the club when he took over. So the age profile in the team is mainly about Lyon's manipulation of the list rather than any natural aging..

The younger Eddy is currently keeping Dempster out...and the younger Zac is keeping Max out.


Though you may try and deny it...Lyon ha built the current team.


Sure he had handy head-start...but he has given the team a major rebuild both with fresh materials and by renovating the existing cattle.

sRr, have you ever thought of starting your own religious cult or extremist political movement. You have the right sort of approach: an unswerving commitment to portray the world only black and white with no allowance for the idea of grey, and the tendency to want to rewrite history all the time.

I can't resist refuting all of this codswallop.

1) Harvey, Peckett and Thommo were at the club and at their best (not to mention the Wakelins, Burke, Loewe, Hall, Everitt, Hayes and others) in the 1999-2000 period when we finished 10th and 16th. They were joined by Hamill and G-Train in 2001-02 when we finished 15th and 15th. The big improvement came from 2003 onwards when Riewoldt, Kosi, Dal, X, Goose and later Ball, BJ, Joey, Chips, etc. really started to hit their straps. Not to mention some of those hopeless trades of the GT era like Powell and (for a while) Penny and Guerra.

2) In other words, as the young guns we recruited developed and got better, so did our performance. It's either that explanation, or GT's coaching genius: take your pick.

3) According to you, Gardi, King, Schneider, Eddy, Zac, Ray and CJ were a critical element of a "major rebuild" under Lion. Utter garbage. What happened between 2000-04 was a major rebuild. There were only 7 players who were regularly in our senior side at the end of 2000 who were still there in 2004: Baker, Hayes, Harvey, Max, Aussie, Peckett and AT. All of the rest were gone and largely replaced by young guys or recycled players from other clubs. On the other hand, 14 of the guys who ran out against the Pies in the QF two weeks ago were already at the club in 2004: and most were already in the senior side.

4) And I might add that the 5 guys who made the AA team the other night were all at the club in 2004. Rebuild schmebuild.

I can see some logic in the argument that Lyon has helped some existing players come on: McQualter, Gilbert and Raph are all good examples (I think the latest reinvention of history on here in which Joey came good under Lyon is a bit of a stretch: after a period of seeming a bit lazy and overweight, he had a pretty good 2006 as I recall).

I also support the idea that Gardiner was a terrific pickup (albeit also a gamble that seemed more likely than not to fail), King and Schneider have been reasonable pickups, and Jones is a wonderful Cinderella story.

I don't accept that Ray, Dawson, Dempster, Eddy, etc. have played critical roles in getting us to where we are today.

So, on the whole, I would give your version of history a 2/10.

[Milton66]

I can see some logic in the argument that Lyon has helped some existing players come on: McQualter, Gilbert and Raph are all good examples (I think the latest reinvention of history on here in which Joey came good under Lyon is a bit of a stretch: after a period of seeming a bit lazy and overweight, he had a pretty good 2006 as I recall).

Was Joey an elite mid in 06? Big difference between pretty good and elite.

I also support the idea that Gardiner was a terrific pickup (albeit also a gamble that seemed more likely than not to fail), King and Schneider have been reasonable pickups, and Jones is a wonderful Cinderella story.

Schneider only "reasonable"? You must be on drugs.

I don't accept that Ray, Dawson, Dempster, Eddy, etc. have played critical roles in getting us to where we are today.

Dempster and Eddy have missed half a season through injury. As for Zac and Ray... did you miss the final a few weeks ago? Ray = star. Now go tell that to the RL and try and keep a straight face when you do so.

MAte, to be honest... I see your logic and views. Each individual's view of events is clouded by their personal beliefs.

But I must say that your inflexible, obsessive defence of all things GT and failure to concede ground is both sad and disturbing.

Despite senior players often stating that the plan is to attack and that they were not adhering to instructions... despite Misson's statements (which you brush off as self serving comments), despite Lyon's clear indication the style of play he wanted... despite 35 stating that RL was the best coach he's had... you still dig in and refuse to see the forest for your blind defence of GT.

So in effect, you are calling all of the above liars, which IMO is a disgraceful insult to our senior players and coaching staff.

But hey, you know best. They don't.

Perhaps you should just ignore the moment and go home and watch re-runs of the 05 Prelim... and mutter what a genius GT was and how unlucky he was because of injuries.

[matrix]

unreal
not a star
lmao

[stinger]

first prize...best post on this thread yet....

[matrix]

pfft tis not
the heart is purple ffs

-10 points for poor colour scheme

[stinger]

pfft tis not
the heart is purple ffs

-10 points for poor colour scheme

no..i disagree...grant should be awarded a purple heart for all the hits he has taken for his beloved saints......

[Milton66]

unreal
not a star
lmao

Are you saying RAy didn't play well against the filth?

Apart from suspension...how many games did Zac and Ray miss this year?

To say that they have not played a critical role this year is a deadset joke.

No, they are not "top 10", but they are equally as important.

[SENsei]

unreal
not a star
lmao

Are you saying RAy didn't play well against the filth?

Apart from suspension...how many games did Zac and Ray miss this year?

To say that they have not played a critical role this year is a deadset joke.

No, they are not "top 10", but they are equally as important.

I'd say both have been 'solid' contributors but certainly not 'stars'. Critical roles yes.

Ray was great against the Filthies.

As for Schneider, he plays a tough role and it's hard to be consistent as a goal sneak/flanker. Look at Milney throughout his career.

I'm not a huge Schneiderman fan as a player, so I would probably rate him in the 'solid' category also.

[barks4eva]

It's also amazing that men may be better performing footballers than boys isn't it.

You mean like Gehrig, Hamill, Harvey, Burke, Powell, Peckett as compared to Dawson, Eddy, Geary, Ray, McEvoy?

[stinger]

It's also amazing that men may be better performing footballers than boys isn't it.

You mean like Gehrig, Hamill, Harvey, Burke, Powell, Peckett as compared to Dawson, Eddy, Geary, Ray, McEvoy?

gotta admit.....good point....over to you rodge...

[SENsei]

B4E - 1
Rodger - 0
Phil - 25

[Milton66]

unreal
not a star
lmao

Are you saying RAy didn't play well against the filth?

Apart from suspension...how many games did Zac and Ray miss this year?

To say that they have not played a critical role this year is a deadset joke.

No, they are not "top 10", but they are equally as important.

I'd say both have been 'solid' contributors but certainly not 'stars'. Critical roles yes.

Ray was great against the Filthies.

As for Schneider, he plays a tough role and it's hard to be consistent as a goal sneak/flanker. Look at Milney throughout his career.

I'm not a huge Schneiderman fan as a player, so I would probably rate him in the 'solid' category also.

we agree to disagree with mutual respect. I'm a huge Schneider fan and I reckon Ray has been a great recruit who will develop into a star. He set us up int he first 1/2 against the filth. If reputations are cut in finals, then he's well on the way to start status IMO. Let's see what happens next.

Schneider is a proven finals performer (remember 05?). He has been critical with what he does. More than reasonable IMO.

On the other hand, I agree with GT about Milne. Needs to really stamp himself in a final, before I'd call him a "star".

[barks4eva]

It's also amazing that men may be better performing footballers than boys isn't it.

You mean like Gehrig, Hamill, Harvey, Burke, Powell, Peckett as compared to Dawson, Eddy, Geary, Ray, McEvoy?

gotta admit.....good point....over to you rodge...

add Clinton Jones


seriously dodgy, get back in your foxhole

[desertsaint]

oh what the hell...i'll bite

GT took over when we were a shambles - off and on the field.

Under his stewardship we became a highly competitive and exciting club, and a consistent top performer.
his record his second to one IMO - about to become two.

under Lyon we've taken that extra step -and well done to the powers that be for identifying his ability.

both should be applauded for their efforts.

critics of GT need to look at where we started and where we finished under him. It seems because he wasn't perfect and made some errors he is a muppet that cost us a premiership - in that case every single coach bar one can be placed in that category. For gawds sake look at his two predecessors - and thank god we didn't get a 'rated' coach like wallace or ayres!

and yes milton - of course we can criticise his comments in his new role.
and yes we can criticise his coaching mistakes - but let's keep it real.

He is a saint, and i'm happy we have such a parochial supporter in the media! welocme back GT!

[SENsei]

Proof will be in the pudding, Miltwayne, the proof will be in the pudding!

We shall compare notes after Friday night and see who stood up to the plate.

I like Fazz so I hope he continues his good form. I think Dawson may struggle as he won't have a natural match up except for Minson when he goes forward. Schneider & Milne will flit in and out as their opportunities present. As long as they are front & square, they will be doing their job.

[bob__71]

Proof will be in the pudding, Miltwayne, the proof will be in the pudding!

We shall compare notes after Friday night and see who stood up to the plate.

I like Fazz so I hope he continues his good form. I think Dawson may struggle as he won't have a natural match up except for Minson when he goes forward. Schneider & Milne will flit in and out as their opportunities present. As long as they are front & square, they will be doing their job.

I think people get hung up on match ups in footy. I think the game is different now. I think a fullback is more like a soccer, rugby, hockey fullback.

In those sports disposal and positioning is more important than guarding a man.

[The Fireman]

pfft tis not
the heart is purple ffs

-10 points for poor colour scheme

If it's good enough for Freo it's good enough for GT.

[Milton66]

oh what the hell...i'll bite

GT took over when we were a shambles - off and on the field.

Under his stewardship we became a highly competitive and exciting club, and a consistent top performer.
his record his second to one IMO - about to become two.

under Lyon we've taken that extra step -and well done to the powers that be for identifying his ability.

both should be applauded for their efforts.

critics of GT need to look at where we started and where we finished under him. It seems because he wasn't perfect and made some errors he is a muppet that cost us a premiership - in that case every single coach bar one can be placed in that category. For gawds sake look at his two predecessors - and thank god we didn't get a 'rated' coach like wallace or ayres!

and yes milton - of course we can criticise his comments in his new role.
and yes we can criticise his coaching mistakes - but let's keep it real.

He is a saint, and i'm happy we have such a parochial supporter in the media! welocme back GT!

I have no qualms with your post. Sadly, other seem to lack such objectivity.

[SENsei]

Proof will be in the pudding, Miltwayne, the proof will be in the pudding!

We shall compare notes after Friday night and see who stood up to the plate.

I like Fazz so I hope he continues his good form. I think Dawson may struggle as he won't have a natural match up except for Minson when he goes forward. Schneider & Milne will flit in and out as their opportunities present. As long as they are front & square, they will be doing their job.

I think people get hung up on match ups in footy. I think the game is different now. I think a fullback is more like a soccer, rugby, hockey fullback.

In those sports disposal and positioning is more important than guarding a man.

Good point.

[bigred]

I am the lizard queen.

[barks4eva]

It's also amazing that men may be better performing footballers than boys isn't it.

You mean like Gehrig, Hamill, Harvey, Burke, Powell, Peckett, Thompson as compared to Dawson, Eddy, Geary, Ray, McEvoy, McQualter, Jones?

[SENsei]

It's also amazing that men may be better performing footballers than boys isn't it.

You mean like Gehrig, Hamill, Harvey, Burke, Powell, Peckett, Thompson as compared to Dawson, Eddy, Geary, Ray, McEvoy, McQualter, Jones?

Now that is really a Groundhog Day moment!

Phil - 26