Another GT "Gem"... I agree 100%!

[meher baba]

I have come back to this thread and still find it pretty weird.

I have re-read my previous post and can't see how it was in any way "hysterical" or even particularly a defence of GT, despite Milton the Monster's accusations.

The 2005 PF was an extremely disappointing night for Saints fans. We had had a fantastic and unexpected win against the Crows two weeks before and, with our battered list, the week off seemed to be exactly what we needed.

But we had many key players out or playing injured. Riewoldt and Dal, despite their injuries, went pretty well as I recall. The big losses were Sam Fisher, Kosi and Hamill. My recollection was that none of these guys had soft tissue injuries, but I could be wrong.

About two minutes into the fourth quarter, it became obvious that the much fitter and fresher Swans were going to run over the top of us. And so they did.

As I said before, I think the coaching strategies were all right on the night, although I probably would have played just about anyone other than Guerra, who was entirely over his career at the Saints by then.

It was the injuries that killed us. Most of these, as I recall, were picked up during the "whispers in the sky" game at Subi.

I am also firmly of the view that we would have beaten the Cats and the Eagles. So we were a little bit unlucky as well: if the chips had fallen only slightly differently, we might very well have gotten a flag that year: GT's inadequate coaching, injury management, greed, lack of respect for ruckmen, tendency to ask Riewoldt to help him when he ran out of petrol, and whatever else was wrong with the man notwithstanding.

I think an interesting question to ask is whether or not we would have gone better in 2005 if Lyon had been our coach rather than GT. I still think that, given the injuries we had, we would have gone down to the Swans under any coach.

[Mr Magic]

I have come back to this thread and still find it pretty weird.

I have re-read my previous post and can't see how it was in any way "hysterical" or even particularly a defence of GT, despite Milton the Monster's accusations.

The 2005 PF was an extremely disappointing night for Saints fans. We had had a fantastic and unexpected win against the Crows two weeks before and, with our battered list, the week off seemed to be exactly what we needed.

But we had many key players out or playing injured. Riewoldt and Dal, despite their injuries, went pretty well as I recall. The big losses were Sam Fisher, Kosi and Hamill. My recollection was that none of these guys had soft tissue injuries, but I could be wrong.

About two minutes into the fourth quarter, it became obvious that the much fitter and fresher Swans were going to run over the top of us. And so they did.

As I said before, I think the coaching strategies were all right on the night, although I probably would have played just about anyone other than Guerra, who was entirely over his career at the Saints by then.

It was the injuries that killed us. Most of these, as I recall, were picked up during the "whispers in the sky" game at Subi.

I am also firmly of the view that we would have beaten the Cats and the Eagles. So we were a little bit unlucky as well: if the chips had fallen only slightly differently, we might very well have gotten a flag that year: GT's inadequate coaching, injury management, greed, lack of respect for ruckmen, tendency to ask Riewoldt to help him when he ran out of petrol, and whatever else was wrong with the man notwithstanding.

I think an interesting question to ask is whether or not we would have gone better in 2005 if Lyon had been our coach rather than GT. I still think that, given the injuries we had, we would have gone down to the Swans under any coach.

It's a matter of Coaching philosophies.
Back in 2005, Lyon was still an assistant coach and learning his craft under Roos, so it is an impossible question to answer, unless you are asking if the 2009 Lyon was coaching us in 2005?

In that scenario I would confidently suggest that Lyon and Thomas had widely diverging ideas about fitness and the defensive side of the game.
Having witnessed our team this year I would find it inconceivable that Lyon would have done nothing to stop the flow of goals in the last quarter, if he had found himself in the position that Thomas did.

As to the weirdness of this thread, I think you'll find that much of the weirdness comes as a response to a particular poster's attempts to deny any skerrick of congratulations to our current coach for our current position. Apparently we're on top having won 20 out of 22 H&A games plus a qualifying final despite him rather than because of anything he's instituted or done.
We've just been very lucky, that's all.

[joffaboy]

I think an interesting question to ask is whether or not we would have gone better in 2005 if Lyon had been our coach rather than GT. I still think that, given the injuries we had, we would have gone down to the Swans under any coach.

If Lyon was coach, we would have had Misson and better list management.

If lyon was somehow transplanted from the Sydney box to the Saints box on the night in question and had not been in charge for three years like GT had, the result would have been EXACTLY the same.

No coach could expect to win with that poor level of fitness and list management exemplified by the GT/Butters years.

This is why it took a full year for Lyon to get this team into AFL fitness.

I know he was appalled at the state of the list and players when he arrived, and Misson was equally appalled that there was no history or stats on player management or fitness.

The professionals at the club had to start from scratch and it took a year to get things right.

We saw a turnaround in 2008 with injuries, and three pre seasons in under the professional Lyon, and his equally professional counterparts Drain and Misson, we have hardly had a soft tissue injury.

This has given us the best opportunity to make a GF and have a crack.

The previous coach and admin did not. It is plainly obvious.

Oh and Lyon has achieved exactly what Thomas did in three years (not five like Thomas) a Preseason cup and two PF's.

And he still has the opportunity to get the club to a GF.

Lyon has shown the amateur fitness management of the previous admin and Gt was negligent.

[stinger]

I have come back to this thread and still find it pretty weird.

I have re-read my previous post and can't see how it was in any way "hysterical" or even particularly a defence of GT, despite Milton the Monster's accusations.

The 2005 PF was an extremely disappointing night for Saints fans. We had had a fantastic and unexpected win against the Crows two weeks before and, with our battered list, the week off seemed to be exactly what we needed.

But we had many key players out or playing injured. Riewoldt and Dal, despite their injuries, went pretty well as I recall. The big losses were Sam Fisher, Kosi and Hamill. My recollection was that none of these guys had soft tissue injuries, but I could be wrong.

About two minutes into the fourth quarter, it became obvious that the much fitter and fresher Swans were going to run over the top of us. And so they did.

As I said before, I think the coaching strategies were all right on the night, although I probably would have played just about anyone other than Guerra, who was entirely over his career at the Saints by then.

It was the injuries that killed us. Most of these, as I recall, were picked up during the "whispers in the sky" game at Subi.

I am also firmly of the view that we would have beaten the Cats and the Eagles. So we were a little bit unlucky as well: if the chips had fallen only slightly differently, we might very well have gotten a flag that year: GT's inadequate coaching, injury management, greed, lack of respect for ruckmen, tendency to ask Riewoldt to help him when he ran out of petrol, and whatever else was wrong with the man notwithstanding.

I think an interesting question to ask is whether or not we would have gone better in 2005 if Lyon had been our coach rather than GT. I still think that, given the injuries we had, we would have gone down to the Swans under any coach.

spot on mate....

[SENsei]

"Phil? Phil Connors? It's me. Ned! Ryerson! Needlenose Ned! Bing!"

[Milton66]

I think an interesting question to ask is whether or not we would have gone better in 2005 if Lyon had been our coach rather than GT. I still think that, given the injuries we had, we would have gone down to the Swans under any coach.

If Lyon was coach, we would have had Misson and better list management.

If lyon was somehow transplanted from the Sydney box to the Saints box on the night in question and had not been in charge for three years like GT had, the result would have been EXACTLY the same.

No coach could expect to win with that poor level of fitness and list management exemplified by the GT/Butters years.

This is why it took a full year for Lyon to get this team into AFL fitness.

I know he was appalled at the state of the list and players when he arrived, and Misson was equally appalled that there was no history or stats on player management or fitness.

The professionals at the club had to start from scratch and it took a year to get things right.

We saw a turnaround in 2008 with injuries, and three pre seasons in under the professional Lyon, and his equally professional counterparts Drain and Misson, we have hardly had a soft tissue injury.

This has given us the best opportunity to make a GF and have a crack.

The previous coach and admin did not. It is plainly obvious.

Oh and Lyon has achieved exactly what Thomas did in three years (not five like Thomas) a Preseason cup and two PF's.

And he still has the opportunity to get the club to a GF.

Lyon has shown the amateur fitness management of the previous admin and Gt was negligent.

Whilst this thread shouldn't be an RL v GT contest... you really can't hypothisize if RL was coach in 05.

It's like saying would we have won a flag if we kept Blight or recruited Connolly.

If RL had the same approach and was into his 3rd year at the club in 05, and made the same changes etc that he has done now (especially fitness regime) then yes we probably would have done better.

That said, you cannot hold GT accountable for collision injuries.

[Con Gorozidis]

hes such a toss bag. hes obsessed with pushing himself as this great man manager motivator and team psych.

his philosophy on footy is if try hard enough u will win. now clearly this makes no sense when u introduce the fact that the other team may also be trying just as hard. so u need to be a bit more scientific than old GT.

he also lives in the world of "character" and citizens. now these terms are again very subjective. what HE regards as good characters might be in line with his own principles. But this also aint very scientific. Once again it doesnt take into account there are a broad range of types of character. And not only one "good" kind. he tried to mould the list according to his own ego. case in point is he said he would not touch gardner with a ten foot pole and would ditch milne. blinkered thinking from a blinkered guy.

football clubs at all levels have always remained broad churches for all kinds of different people and lets hope they always do! thats what good about them. not about creating a GT robot mentality in his own self adoring image!

i think RL is far more open minded when it comes to the different types of characters out there. I mean look at gardy and milney now? thank christ we have them.

our last premiership coach once famously said "not many choirboys win premierships". he was right then and hes right now.

GT - get over yourself dude.

[markp]

"Phil? Phil Connors? It's me. Ned! Ryerson! Needlenose Ned! Bing!"

I'm almost starting to regret lacing some of your jellybeans with LSD... almost

[saintsRrising]

[quote="Gershwin"]The fact that we have such fine, loyal and committed players such as Roo, Kossie, Ball, Dal Santo, Montagna, Maguire, Goddard etc. is largely due to GT and his “man management and people skillsâ€

[saintsRrising]

As I said before, I think the coaching strategies were all right on the night, .

Wrong.
GT had Voss on O'keefe.

Roos instructed O'Keefe to keep well away from Hall and O'Laughin...whereas GT has Voss covering the tow key forwards.

O'Keefe cut us to ribbons.

[Milton66]

As I said before, I think the coaching strategies were all right on the night, .

Wrong.
GT had Voss on O'keefe.

Roos instructed O'Keefe to keep well away from Hall and O'Laughin...whereas GT has Voss covering the tow key forwards.

O'Keefe cut us to ribbons.

Was that the infamous game where Burke and GT fell out?

[stinger]

i am and always will be a grant thomas fan.......doesn't mean that i don't appreciate ross.....i think he is a fine coach with the potential...and i stress the word potential ......to be our greatest ever coach.....he has achieved more in a season than every other coach with the exception of jeans....this year's 21 2 record is remarkable.....he is through to a prelim the easy way and the first time since 1997 that we have gotten there without a loss on the way.......

...but....i am not blind to his perceived(by some) blind spots......i agree with thomas that max is a far better backman than zac...and that zac does not have the same presence on a footy field.......but...again there is a but....ross will live and die by his own decisions...and that is the way it should be.......by the way...i think it is time that the thomas haters get a life.....the club invited him back this week...that's good enough for me.....

[Milton66]

Once again there's a missing of the point.

Thomas made a comment and I question his authority. It's not about being a Thomas hater, especially when one acknowledges his achievements.

His comments on the Doggies was spot on, as was his assessment of the Malthouse / Buckley agreement.

[saintspremiers]

..he is through to a prelim the easy way and the first time since 1997 that we have gotten there without a loss on the way.......

Wrong.

In 2005 we beat the Crows in Adelaide in the Qually to get into the Prelims without a loss.

BUT, this is the first time since 1997 we've done it without a loss and without having to play an interstate final!

[saint66au]

I just find it gobsmackingly stunning that, in a week where we score our most important finals win for a long time...that we should be looking forward with anticipation to a great Prelim and a possible GF berth..that a thread on Grant Thomas still grows twice as fast and is twice as long as any other active thread on the board

Some people I think need to seek help..or go a bridge building class

Seriously amazing for all the wrong reasons

[Milton66]

I just find it gobsmackingly stunning that, in a week where we score our most important finals win for a long time...that we should be looking forward with anticipation to a great Prelim and a possible GF berth..that a thread on Grant Thomas still grows twice as fast and is twice as long as any other active thread on the board

Some people I think need to seek help..or go a bridge building class

Seriously amazing for all the wrong reasons

Who says we're not celebrating?

It's topical, and it happened yesterday. So what, we ignore everything else for the next 2 weeks and have an SS lovefest where we talk about Max, Zac, Goose and Raph???

I put it out there, it's almost 5 pages. So there's obviously interest.

[stinger]

..he is through to a prelim the easy way and the first time since 1997 that we have gotten there without a loss on the way.......

Wrong.

In 2005 we beat the Crows in Adelaide in the Qually to get into the Prelims without a loss.

BUT, this is the first time since 1997 we've done it without a loss and without having to play an interstate final!

that will teach me to take the drivel dished up by journos as gospel......

[rodgerfox]

Apparently we're on top having won 20 out of 22 H&A games plus a qualifying final despite him rather than because of anything he's instituted or done.
We've just been very lucky, that's all.

That's just silly.

Can you point out who said that and where, cause I'll go into the thread and debate it with them because it's quite simply a silly thing to say.

Are you sure that's what they said?

[rodgerfox]

our last premiership coach once famously said "not many choirboys win premierships". he was right then and hes right now.

He was right then, but I'm not sure he's right now at all.

Disciplined teams win flags, and disciplined teams are made up of disciplined inidividuals.

[rodgerfox]

I just find it gobsmackingly stunning that, in a week where we score our most important finals win for a long time...that we should be looking forward with anticipation to a great Prelim and a possible GF berth..that a thread on Grant Thomas still grows twice as fast and is twice as long as any other active thread on the board

Why are you surprised?

It's the same people, every single time, that are obsessed with the man.

Completely and utterly infatuated.


It's simply magic to watch!

[Milton66]

I just find it gobsmackingly stunning that, in a week where we score our most important finals win for a long time...that we should be looking forward with anticipation to a great Prelim and a possible GF berth..that a thread on Grant Thomas still grows twice as fast and is twice as long as any other active thread on the board

Why are you surprised?

It's the same people, every single time, that are obsessed with the man.

Completely and utterly infatuated.


It's simply magic to watch!

Registered for your GF ticket have you?

I notice they invited Lethal to address the players and not your demi-god coach.

[Thinline]

GT vs Ross.

Sweet hay-zoos el saviour christ...

Come on peeps.

Surely there's more relevant, non-hypothetical and blatantly antagonistic things to discuss two weeks out from a prelim?

[markp]

It's the same people, every single time, that are obsessed with the man.

Completely and utterly infatuated.

My irony meter just exploded.

Only GT loves GT more than you.

[Milton66]

I'm still waiting to here of those "poor decisions" you mentioned. You are a funny man RF. Or is that Violent Stool??

I explained that very succinctly to you already.

Erm, no you didn't. You suggested that I copulate you and then restated what was obvious - what you posted.

BUT...

You still haven't answered us about what these alleged "poor" decisions will be. And don't give us the "if any" lies, because it wasn't in your original post.

At least if I state an opinion on GT, I have the balls to back it up, whereas you jump to your "liar" defence and deflect attention away from your grandiose accusations.

So it's ok for you to question the current coach, but when others start a thread it's nonsense? I would expect better from you ViolentFox.

Glass- house-stones RodgerStool.

[matrix]

how we going over in here?



its ok ill catch up...kinda like not watching neighbours for 3 weeks





*i dont watch neighbours btw*