Far from happy about this

[BaysideSaint]

i still like the fullbackline: blake, hudghton, dawson. there's just something indominatable about it i dont know.

[Milton66]

jesus f****** christ i far from worship ANYONE
i just think come finals u go with experience and ability
max still has the ability, and i think he can fit into the style of play/team role.

its done, he wont get a gig if the OP is true...shite happens now.

what we have is still very very good

go sainters

That's a fair and reasonable call. I agree 100% about ability under fire, experience and leadership.

But in the end, it does come down to team balance and respective roles of each player.

That's the nature of footy I'm afraid. Just ask Derek Kickett.

[matrix]

DK was the first thing i thought of

s*** happens

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

For me this is not about sentiment, or winning Grand Finals. Its about how you treat your champions. Max has given his all to the club. For gods sake, don't name the guy in the side when you have no intention of playing him.

Really feel for you Max, you have been a champion and deserve to be treated better than this.

Agree Bev, if the article is true. Winning isn't everything in life. It sounds like some on here are so pathetic and desperate for a win that they'd sell their own mothers for a premiership. Some things aren't worth a premiership.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

if this is even the slightest bit true i would be absolutely f****** p1ssed off.

even reading that now my mood has changed from not too bad for a friday morning too i wouldnt even speak to me unless u want your freaking head bitten off

not good enough
bollocks
what utter crap
UTTER CRAP!!!

f*** me
im fuming,
like he wouldnt be able to take john anthony this week and give him F*** all

<f****** upset and disgusted

Agree. I was really pumped for the game, but after reading the article I felt a bit sick in the guts and have lost most interest in it. So he had a couple of ordinary games? He's only played a handful for the year so he was building up to peak form (which he showed against Franklin and Brad Johnson a few weeks ago and Fev earlier in the year- about 3-4 goals between them) He could take Anthony on his ear (or Medhurst). He'd be the most ideal match up for Anthony in probably the whole league.
When I think of some of the guys who will be in the side ahead of him (if not picked) it feels even more wrong.

[InkerSaint]

As soon as I read this line in the article

former teammates say he is hurt and confused about his fate

I thought, "bait".

Another of Noddy's sensationalised pieces of crap.

Your sources are unimpeachable, are they Noddy? How come you couldn't quote them stating that they spoke to him?

Because it would be a lie, right?

I didn't give the article another thought.

[TimPekin'sDirtyGuernsey]

Even he doesn't play in the big one I reckon they should give a medal or have him out on the ground at least when we win, same goes with harvs I reckon.

With all due respect, no.

Banger finished last year and went to Carlton to begin a career in coaching and player development. No contribution to the Club this year.

Didn't see Geelong or Sydney giving premiership medals to recently retired heroes after breaking their droughts.

I will always support the team before individuals.

Sure we have had Brownlow Medallists, Coleman Medallists and the like winning individual awards throughout the last 43 years... but we haven't had any St Kilda Premiership medallions.

And that is the ultimate goal in football.

[Milton66]

For me this is not about sentiment, or winning Grand Finals. Its about how you treat your champions. Max has given his all to the club. For gods sake, don't name the guy in the side when you have no intention of playing him.

Really feel for you Max, you have been a champion and deserve to be treated better than this.

Agree Bev, if the article is true. Winning isn't everything in life. It sounds like some on here are so pathetic and desperate for a win that they'd sell their own mothers for a premiership. Some things aren't worth a premiership.

Read your own sig.

It's not about selling your mother for a win.

[devil saint]

For me this is not about sentiment, or winning Grand Finals. Its about how you treat your champions. If it was Harves, everyone would have been up in arms. Max has given his all to the club, just the same. For gods sake, don't name the guy in the side when you have no intention of playing him.

Really feel for you Max, you have been a champion and deserve to be treated better than this.

He had a shocker against the bombers, but was captain the week before in Tassie. He wasn't on his own against the bombers, however Zac's game against the Roos, I have never seen Max play worse than that, ever! So I am worried about Zac in the finals. Sentiment or not Max should be in I reckon!

Agree! He is solid, Max, and he hates getting beaten. For the finals, esp. against the filfth this week, he is a perfect selection.
It could really come back to bite us if we leave him out imo. This has nothing to do with sentiment and everything to do with winning!

[Ghost Like]

We don't even know if this is true...could be a heap of concocted garbage by Sheahan.

Agree Fireman but if true I feel for Howard, he's been at the club longer than King, Ray, Dempster, Jones and Schneider. What are they doing getting a finals game before him?

They are all better players than Brad Howard. Simple as that.

BANG BANG

Thanks Hurricane, was a bit baffled but I guess that's how Ross sees ALL his selections, I'm happy to go with what Ross & the selectors think.

For the record, I feel for Max but if we win the flag and Max is not a part of that 22, my soul would not have been sold but fulfilled. No supporter can honestly say they would prefer to see Max get a game than win a flag, if they do then they are not a supporter of St Kilda, only a supporter of Max.

[Milton66]

What amuses me is that no one seems to have considered Zac's side of the story...

He was elevated due to an injury to Max. He exceeded all expectations and apart from suspension, has contributed to almost every victory this season.

Now, for some blind Max lovefest, everyone focuses on one game against Nth.

So what exactly has he done to be dropped rom the finals????

He stood up and grabbed his 2nd chance. And who can blame him?

I doubt there was some kind of Kiribilli pact that he'd step aside for Max.

So how about people get a reality check and consider that Zac has earned his spot?

I bet if Gwilt or Raph were making way for Max, no one would give a shyte about their misfortune.

[Junior]

For far too long the ST Kilda Fooball club has been about individuals and not the team.

If we win the premiership this year I do not care who the 22 are.

Love Max as a player and if fully fit I would pick him ahead of both Blake and Dawson but there has got to be some doubt on his ability to get through a full game.

What annoys me is that if true someone has leaked this information to the media, and whoever this was should be banned from stepping foot into the ST Kilda Football club for ever.

Our club have a great opportunity to do something special over the next month, do not need distractions.

As loyal as Max and as great a player as he ahs been, all he is owed from the club is his salary and the truth to be told to him by the coach. If the reports are true Lyon has told him.

For the article to throw up the fact that Lyon met with Max at the end of last year and said he wanted him to continue is irrelevant as since then he has badly injured his calf and missed a heap of football.

As coach Lyon has a responsibility to pick the team he thinks is best to achieve the ultimate success for the club.

No one has a right to play.

[perfectionist]

Warning!!! : Here comes another 1966 story.

With the exception of two games in Rounds 12 and 13 when he was injured, Ian "Doggy" Rowland played in every game in 1966, including the 2nd Semi and Prelim Final (when he was a reserve). Every game that is, except the Grand Final. Having been dropped from the 18 for the PF in favour of a 17 year old Allan Davis, he was dropped as reserve in favour of Kevin Billing (who didn't take the field) for the GF.

He had played 109 games for the Saints since 1960, most of the time as first rover, including in the 1965 GF.

Did this decision alter the result of the game? Probably not, Allan Davis hardly got a kick ( although we subsequently learned he had a stay at home role imposed by Alan Jeans to negate a Collingwood runner) and, as stated, Kevin Billing did not take the field.

I remember my uncle being very disappointed with his exclusion, being a favourite player of his, but any disappointment vanished at around 5pm on the 24th of Sept and was replaced with sympathy for Doggy.

This sentiment still exists today and I had a brief chat with him about it at the St Kilda 1966 reunion in Launceston. Although he never played another game for the Saints, he is embraced as part of the group that got us the flag, like Big Carl and others. While nothing replaces actually being part of the team, as far as I am aware, no team has every won a flag, let alone made a GF, without such replacements and associated hard luck stories.

We must win another three games and noone knows just who we will play and therefore the appropriate make up of the team. In 1997, Crows player Aaron Keating was a member of their premiership side. It was just his third game. He only played another 3 games in the AFL.

[BringBackMadDog]

For me this is not about sentiment, or winning Grand Finals. Its about how you treat your champions. Max has given his all to the club. For gods sake, don't name the guy in the side when you have no intention of playing him.

Really feel for you Max, you have been a champion and deserve to be treated better than this.

Agree Bev, if the article is true. Winning isn't everything in life. It sounds like some on here are so pathetic and desperate for a win that they'd sell their own mothers for a premiership. Some things aren't worth a premiership.

You're sh1tting me right????? A premiership is the ONLY goal, if I thought my team played for anything other than that, then I would turn my back on the game for ever!!!!!

[rodgerfox]

Now, for some blind Max lovefest, everyone focuses on one game against Nth.

I think it's a bit unfair to call the love supporters have for Max as 'blind'.

They've watched him play for 10 years. Hardly blind support.

[Thinline]

For me this is not about sentiment, or winning Grand Finals. Its about how you treat your champions. If it was Harves, everyone would have been up in arms. Max has given his all to the club, just the same. For gods sake, don't name the guy in the side when you have no intention of playing him.

Really feel for you Max, you have been a champion and deserve to be treated better than this.

Bev - I take absolute delight in your passion but the facts are the facts...Max's injury riddled run and less than glorious form have paved the way for someone to take his spot and but for the odd blip, that man's contribution has been above average. One man's misfortune is another man's start. Sport, cruel master that it is, has always been like this.

As much of a trooper as Maxy's been, he's just a pro sportsman and he is being treated like a pro sportsman.

And remember his last game at Sandy - his big chance, you'd have to say - was something less than glorious.

[Milton66]

Now, for some blind Max lovefest, everyone focuses on one game against Nth.

I think it's a bit unfair to call the love supporters have for Max as 'blind'.

They've watched him play for 10 years. Hardly blind support.

Do you have something intelligent to add? Or just baiting?

IMO people are letting too much emotion and love (blind or otherwise) get in the way of the main game.

[rodgerfox]

Now, for some blind Max lovefest, everyone focuses on one game against Nth.

I think it's a bit unfair to call the love supporters have for Max as 'blind'.

They've watched him play for 10 years. Hardly blind support.

Do you have something intelligent to add? Or just baiting?

IMO people are letting too much emotion and love (blind or otherwise) get in the way of the main game.

I think referring to people's support of a club legend they've watched for the past 10 years on a weekly basis as 'blind' is both offensive, and easily considered as 'bait'.

It's a nasty way to get your view across, and belittle the views of those supporters who are emotional about the situation.

I have no issue with this view, but there's no need to demean them in the process.....

"IMO people are letting too much emotion and love (blind or otherwise) get in the way of the main game"


For what it's worth, I completely agree that if the coaching panel don't think Max is the best person to win us a flag in his possie, then bad luck.

[meher baba]

That Dawson should play ahead of Max is surely not a clearcut decision.

Even Sheahan's article points out that Dawson is more vulnerable one-on-one and that his possible superiority is based upon flexibility. Personally, I haven't observed an enormous amount of flexibility in relation to Zac: Blake is a different story.

Given that there is very little in it between Max and Zac, I don't think it is appropriate for a lot of posters to drone on and on about "it's about the team not the individual, those who think otherwise are wankers, etc, etc."

I would never favour selecting players purely on sentiment. But there is a case for Max to be selected purely on ability: all that experience surely counts for something.

Really, let's wait and see who plays in what game. If Max makes the final 22 this whole thread and many who have posted in it are going to look more than a little silly.

Geez...........!!

[bergholt]

i still like the fullbackline: blake, hudghton, dawson. there's just something indominatable about it i dont know.

that line would be pretty hard to get past.

but that's not just what it's about. the gameplan requires defenders to provide rebound and run from defence. the coaching staff seem to have the feeling that the line you've named there is overall too defensive and won't provide enough rebound. i reckon they're right, as we've seen from games where that line has played.

max's defensive efforts - which are always great - are not the only thing he'd be selected for. we can't have too many pure defenders or it will hurt us. zac and blake are seen to be ahead of him; you can debate that, sure. but i think it's hard to argue that zac, max and blake should be in the same side.

[Bernard Shakey]

No point bagging Sheehan, what he has written is fact.

Also no comparison with Derek Kickett, he played every game except the granny. Max has played 7 and didn't complete some of those.

When we win on 26 September, everyone on the list will have been part of that premiership. AFL is too Grand Final centric.
Footy is a team game and you don't win anything without a team effort.
Max is part of the team and is a winner.

[Thinline]

I would never favour selecting players purely on sentiment. But there is a case for Max to be selected purely on ability: all that experience surely counts for something.

Really, let's wait and see who plays in what game. If Max makes the final 22 this whole thread and many who have posted in it are going to look more than a little silly.

Geez...........!!

It's about form and fitness, not experience.

It simply CANNOT be any othe way.

Take the emotion out of it and it really ain't that tough to grapple with at all.

Max got himself fittish, had a shot in the magoos and - from all reports - didn't have a real crack.

Zac had a 'dog of a' against Roos - really his only true dud game - then came out against Melbourne and looked okay.

Whatever. May all be academic if he gets named later.

[SainterK]

I think if Max doesn't make the side, it will not be about who is the better FB out of the two. This will purely come down to Ross, and his ability to outcoach the opposition. It will be about the hypothetical scenario that we are being challenged in a high pressure final, and we have a team full of players who are adaptable to mix it up.

[Milton66]

Now, for some blind Max lovefest, everyone focuses on one game against Nth.

I think it's a bit unfair to call the love supporters have for Max as 'blind'.

They've watched him play for 10 years. Hardly blind support.

Do you have something intelligent to add? Or just baiting?

IMO people are letting too much emotion and love (blind or otherwise) get in the way of the main game.

I think referring to people's support of a club legend they've watched for the past 10 years on a weekly basis as 'blind' is both offensive, and easily considered as 'bait'.

It's a nasty way to get your view across, and belittle the views of those supporters who are emotional about the situation.

I have no issue with this view, but there's no need to demean them in the process.....

"IMO people are letting too much emotion and love (blind or otherwise) get in the way of the main game"


For what it's worth, I completely agree that if the coaching panel don't think Max is the best person to win us a flag in his possie, then bad luck.

hahahahahaha

Maybe I should call them cretins or morons or liars like you do???

Nice try. Didn't work.

Try again. No feathers ruffled here RF. You'll have to do better.

Remember: when you're trying to be smart, it helps if you're actually smart.

[Legendary]

Really some people are self righteous wankers.... Having a cry cos Max's papers have been stamped...

There is a far, far bigger picture here... If those disagreeing about Max being dropped were doing so purely on football/form reasons, fine, but this is clearly not the case... He is a favourite cos he shed public tears for the club, and many cannot let this go.... Watch his games again this year and then make a judgement...

He hasn't looked up to it all year, and his disposal and dicision making is below AFL level now... Ross sees this..

Lets win a flag with our best 22... not our favourite 22...

Spot on.



You want senitment? Go and play with your wooden spoons.