How Good Was Lockett

[bigcarl]

He would never survive having to apply 'frontal pressure'

He may have demonstrated a more primal interpretation of that concept.

yeah, i saw him appy plenty of frontal pressure.

[bigcarl]

I doubt he'd survive in the modern game due to the emphasis on athleticism.

i reckon if kosi can survive today plugger would.

[bozza1980]

Plugger was simply magic.

A one man force of nature, and could he kick.

Ridiculously good.

[ace]

Who knows Lockett may have struggled with today's flooding tactics and also dropping men in the space he would like to lead into.

Franklin's effort last year was a stand out effort.

We may think of Lockett as St kilda's son .. but does he reciprocate and value St kilda or the Swans as his progenitor ?
Actions speak louder than words in that regard.

Then again maybe he was a good son in luring Barry Hall away and giving us NDS.

Every oppositon player knew stop Lockett, stop St Kilda.
They would double and triple team him.
Putting a man in the hole was invented to stop Lockett.
If you were that man you knew you were out of favour with your coach.
It was a kamikaze job, just get between Lockett and the ball, dive across his legs if you can.

[ace]

They're the worst words you'd ever want to hear: "I need you to fill the hole in front of Lockett". Eek.

To think that the angry ant from Hawthorn was complaining that buddy doesn't get his share of free kicks. Pluggger played in the days when chopping the arm was a legitimate tactic.

Not to mention chopping the legs by diving across in front of him.

[ace]

He kicked 34 in 3 games in 1991 !!! He kicked 117 in about 17 games that year including 9 in a final.

In front of this team would break the season record.

Simply the best I have ever seen. And damn scary too. Never mind BBBH, he was a schoolyard bully beside Plugger.

If Plugger was kept to only 4 goals in a game the fullback would get a brownlow vote.

He was the reason teams started playing extra men in the backline (Sheedy played an 8 man backline against us in that 91 season and kept Plugger to only a couple of goals, Essendon won the game). Your damn good when people chnage the way the game is played because of you.

Same as Banger. The original "rotations" started when teams started rotating taggers on him in order to keep up. Before that a tagger would go to a gun mid and run with him all day. Banger started running them int the ground beore half time and they started rotating them on him - and he ran a few pairs of taggers in to the ground in his prime as well!

Kicking 34 goals in 3 consecutive games - He did it twice.
The umpires regarded him as a bad boy but they respected his play enough to give him the mid fielders brownlow medal.

[ace]

On footy flasbacks the other week, they showed the 91 elimination final b/w saints and cats.

My 7 year daughter was watching in amazement. She called out to her sister. 'Come and watch this guy Lockett, he's incredible!.' They were both amazed that Robert Harvey was still running around in the 'olden days.'

Quite funny as I was explaining that Gary Ablett's dad was playing in this game - my 9 year old remarked,'He wasn't very good was he.'

Gary Ablett jnr's dad beaten by Danny Frawley so he just went the bash.
They spell backwards in Geelong, he was a DOG.

[Moods]

My favourite plugger memory was a game at the Western Oval. I used to watch the saints back then with my best mate, even though I still followed the roys. I recall at the start of the game plugger was jogging down to the goal square to meet his opponent Zino Tetsaris (or similar) PLugger was rubbing dirt into his hands, but from a distance it looked like he was rubbing his hands together in delight at the prospect of playing on Zino as he ran twds him.

Sure enough he kicked 10 that day and their was a crowd following him from end to end. Only the true champions, and I mean champions, of our game get ppl through the gate to watch them play. Plugger was that. I loved his raw aggression, his incredible skill - the way he would have the crowd in the palm of his hand. At his best, he was second to none (poss Gary Ablett snr had his natural ability)

Winmar to Lockett was like Lillee to Marsh.

[remboy]

I've never seen a player control the outcome of a game the way Plugger did. In our last game of 1992 we needed to beat Melbourne to make the finals. In a low scoring game (we were 5 goals to 4 down at 3/4 time) there were four goals kicked in the last quarter and Plugger kicked them all.
A lot is said about his size and strength but his skills were amazing. He was the best kick for goal I've ever seen. At training he was sensational by hand or foot on both sides of the body. If he had been able to keep himself a bit fitter he'd be considered one of the best players of all times.
And as for this rubbish about him struggling in this era. With the hands in the back and chopping the arms rules he would kick 10 goals a week every week.

[Milton66]

I doubt he'd survive in the modern game due to the emphasis on athleticism.

i reckon if kosi can survive today plugger would.

I think his fitness (and I respect that he had asthma) and his attutude towards it, severly limited his potential.

I dare say that Kosi is much fitter than Plugger ever was. Without knowing him, he gave the impression that he got by on sheer ability.

That said, he was THE man you paid to go and watch, and could turn the game in 10 minutes.

I guess my memory is tainted by the wasted potential of those years. Not to mention having your heart in your mouth every week in case of suspension or injury: No Lockett, no St Kilda. Thank god we're not relient on any individual as we were back then.

From today's context, I'd take Dunstall over Lockett to play in 2009. He always came across as being far more professional than Plugger.

Although Lockett was the best, no question.

[mbogo]

Since Plugger was absolutely the best Full Forward of all time - it is impossible to suggest he did not reach his potential!
He invented Frontal Pressure - he would be eating full-back for lunch whenever the ball came down.
We were just shocked that he did not get 150 every year - he was THAT good.
In todays era there are not too many who could outmark or spoil him, none who can kick better - accurate up to 65m or so - and no one could man up on him one on one.
Maybe he could have got 2000 goals and played CHF - but that will never happen for anyone.
But as others have said - 4 players out - or even Plugger out and we were stuffed - except when Nicky filled in that time.
He used to crack packs open like they were walnuts - and he would usually still be the one standing - then he would walk in and kick the goal - leaving the wreck in his wake. Imagine how Milne etc would go with him sitting there.
Occasionally Kossie breaks the pack - and Gardner .... but more consistency there would be nice.
But so much better to rely not on one but the whole team!

[jonesy]

There should be a Lockett thread each week. He should of been knighted.
Some past players 'legends' seem to get bigger as the years go by,Carey,Brereton,etc. Lockett doesn't,a price paid playing for Stkilda of the 80's 90's, the forgotten superhero of football.

He was the Don Bradman of Aussie rules. He had more talent in his little finger than what most players had. At the end of the day he probably achieved the absolute minimum of his potential,and he still ended up the greatest full forward of all time.

Imagine if he had of played for those Geelong or Hawthorn sides! Any other side for that matter,unfortunatly for the Lockett legend,but fortunatly for us he played for Stkilda.
Those attacking Geelong sides of the late 80's,he would of kicked 200 a year minimum,without a hesitation of doubt.

It was an honour to have him play for us, it gives me shivers watching back over old highlights or reading Lockett talk. We might have a terrible history and 26 spoons,but I feel privelidged to have been able to grow up watching plugger,he was the greatest

[bigcarl]

I dare say that Kosi is much fitter than Plugger ever was. Without knowing him, he gave the impression that he got by on sheer ability.

all due respect to kosi (who is a very good player at his best) he's not an out and out champion of the game like lockett.

as for dunstall, pfft. played in premiership teams surrounded by class whereas lockett was carrying about 8 or 10 of our guys.

[dcstkfc]

Never get tired of this footage from the day we overpowered Sydney in the last quarter at the SCG.

[Milton66]

I dare say that Kosi is much fitter than Plugger ever was. Without knowing him, he gave the impression that he got by on sheer ability.

all due respect to kosi (who is a very good player at his best) he's not an out and out champion of the game like lockett.

as for dunstall, pfft. played in premiership teams surrounded by class whereas lockett was carrying about 8 or 10 of our guys.

Never stated that Kosi was better than Plugger.

I rate Dunstall.

BTW, as good as he was, does not mean he maximised his potential IMO.

[AlpineStars]

There should be a Lockett thread each week. He should of been knighted.
Some past players 'legends' seem to get bigger as the years go by,Carey,Brereton,etc. Lockett doesn't,a price paid playing for Stkilda of the 80's 90's, the forgotten superhero of football.

He was the Don Bradman of Aussie rules. He had more talent in his little finger than what most players had. At the end of the day he probably achieved the absolute minimum of his potential,and he still ended up the greatest full forward of all time.

Imagine if he had of played for those Geelong or Hawthorn sides! Any other side for that matter,unfortunatly for the Lockett legend,but fortunatly for us he played for Stkilda.
Those attacking Geelong sides of the late 80's,he would of kicked 200 a year minimum,without a hesitation of doubt.

It was an honour to have him play for us, it gives me shivers watching back over old highlights or reading Lockett talk. We might have a terrible history and 26 spoons,but I feel privelidged to have been able to grow up watching plugger,he was the greatest

He is the best player I have ever seen, but the gloss is lost that he is not a one club player. I do not think of him the way I think of Barker and Harvey.

[bigcarl]

BTW, as good as he was, does not mean he maximised his potential IMO.

agree. he would have kicked 2000 if he had and probably kicked 200 in a season.

in his defence he played for some of the poorest st kilda teams in living memory and often the responsibility for winning rested on his shoulders.

he would have been relieved of that burden at a more successful club ... like the hawthorn sides of the era.

his aggression brought him unstuck at times, but he wouldn't have been the same player without it. lockett would be a megastar in today's game.

[SuperSaint]

There should be a Lockett thread each week. He should of been knighted.
Some past players 'legends' seem to get bigger as the years go by,Carey,Brereton,etc. Lockett doesn't,a price paid playing for Stkilda of the 80's 90's, the forgotten superhero of football.

He was the Don Bradman of Aussie rules. He had more talent in his little finger than what most players had. At the end of the day he probably achieved the absolute minimum of his potential,and he still ended up the greatest full forward of all time.

Imagine if he had of played for those Geelong or Hawthorn sides! Any other side for that matter,unfortunatly for the Lockett legend,but fortunatly for us he played for Stkilda.
Those attacking Geelong sides of the late 80's,he would of kicked 200 a year minimum,without a hesitation of doubt.

It was an honour to have him play for us, it gives me shivers watching back over old highlights or reading Lockett talk. We might have a terrible history and 26 spoons,but I feel privelidged to have been able to grow up watching plugger,he was the greatest

Well said. He was definitely the 'Don Bradman of Aussie Rules', as you put it. He played football the way you dream of playing. He was simply that good. He would kick goals in double figures from limited opportunities because he was mainly unstoppable. I remember one time at Moorabbin we played North and he made Mick Martin look so bad. He kicked 12 or 13 goals on him and shrugged him off like a rag doll. He even spent a fair time wrestling him and at one stage put him in a headlock. I thought Mick was going to pass out!
Opposition teams regularly played 2 to 3 defenders on him and still he would split the pack and mark the ball. Apart from Winmar and Harvey, the delivery to him from the rest of the team was average to say the least, however it didn't matter as he was that brilliant a player.

[Con Gorozidis]

in my time watching footy (i never really saw lethal) i wold say

1. gary ablett sr
2. t lockett
3. r glendenning


locket was just awesome. he was incredible. he could be 1 - but i think i might over rate g ablett for the speccies.

i can remember just rubbish kicks in mud and 5 guys kicking to spoil him and him just marking it anyway. and boy could he kick. he often took high marks as well and kicked a lot of goals from snaps around the body. was hard to tackle - almost impossible to stop at full speed. was very quick on the lead over 20 and built like a mack ruck.

would have adapted to todays footy easily and been just as good. much better than fev (and i rate fev). and remember how craps the teams he played in were. they probably only got 20 inside 50 in a game - and plugger would still kick 10. the guy was just amazing.

a lot of it comes down to personality. outgoing media savvy guys like voss, bucks, hird - get loved by their mates in the media.

and quiet guys (plugger, greg williams, ricciuto) who were way better players dont get the same hoopla cos they dont hang out with media types.

but for me plugger is 1 or 2 easy.

[SuperSaint]

I will always rate Lockett above Ablett Snr as Lockett played more match winning games in his career that he won off his own boot, compared to Ablett.

[MasonCJ2]

Great post. One of my close friendship groups has a Saint, a Cat, a Pie, a Don, and a Lion supporter. Ok, just kidding, not friends, but I know them.

But being lads and the want to create lists the top 5 of our lifetime always comes up, particularly given the support from the above for Buckley, Hird, and Voss. Ablett picks himself. We exclude Matthews for lack of real appreciation and anyone of that narrow era and before.

I still have Ablett at 1. His highlight reel is something to behold and an amazing ability to dominate games from the wing, hff, or later on FF. He simply did things most wouldn't be capable of and on a regular occasion. Many non-Saints wouldn't have Plugger at all, which I cannot believe. Still my favourite player of all time and he'd slot ahead of Carey for mine - Plugger's presence was still something to behold - whether in a very poor team or when he was fortunate enough to play in a finals team.

FWIW, Duck has to come in at three, then Hird 4, and Buckley sneaks 5 ahead of Voss. Plenty of room for arguments in that lot and shame on me for not including R Harvey. I like to think that I maintain some semblance of partiality. In the heat of discussion, I could certainly make a case for Banger to slip into 4 at the least! And on greater reflection, others such as Dunstall could easily slip past the likes of Buckley and Voss.

[MasonCJ2]

Just on re-reading my post, I meant re: Lethal and lack of appreciation that we weren't really old enough to fully categorise, not that we couldn't appreciate him!

[Con Gorozidis]

I doubt he'd survive in the modern game due to the emphasis on athleticism.

i reckon if kosi can survive today plugger would.

ur kidding milton. hed have dominated. maybe hed have to have eaten few less pies and beers. and done more sessions - running and gym - but the flip side to your argument is - with todays smarter training and more understanding of sports science - the guy would be even better.

back in those days - they just flogged u - everyone done did the same session, if u could tailor a program to plugger - he be just as effective. he was an.amzing athlete (just a bit unfit) but anyone can get fit - not many others have the raw ability he had.

[stinger]

lockett used to say to the full back you touch me and i will kill you....meant it too...... ...nearly strangled a couple of them....one or two turned blue....

[Con Gorozidis]

Great post. One of my close friendship groups has a Saint, a Cat, a Pie, a Don, and a Lion supporter. Ok, just kidding, not friends, but I know them.

But being lads and the want to create lists the top 5 of our lifetime always comes up, particularly given the support from the above for Buckley, Hird, and Voss. Ablett picks himself. We exclude Matthews for lack of real appreciation and anyone of that narrow era and before.

I still have Ablett at 1. His highlight reel is something to behold and an amazing ability to dominate games from the wing, hff, or later on FF. He simply did things most wouldn't be capable of and on a regular occasion. Many non-Saints wouldn't have Plugger at all, which I cannot believe. Still my favourite player of all time and he'd slot ahead of Carey for mine - Plugger's presence was still something to behold - whether in a very poor team or when he was fortunate enough to play in a finals team.

FWIW, Duck has to come in at three, then Hird 4, and Buckley sneaks 5 ahead of Voss. Plenty of room for arguments in that lot and shame on me for not including R Harvey. I like to think that I maintain some semblance of partiality. In the heat of discussion, I could certainly make a case for Banger to slip into 4 at the least! And on greater reflection, others such as Dunstall could easily slip past the likes of Buckley and Voss.

id have ricciuto up there . i really rated that guy. was skilful - tough. just friggin awesome player. at least as good as hird, bucks, voss (but less media slutty in his personality).