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1. S Fisher
2. B Goddard
3. M Hudghton
4. S Gilbert
5. Z Dawson
6. J Blake
Take out Goddard who is part of the midfield rotations - although I acknowledge that yes he does line up in the back 6 from time to time, and insert the name of Steven Baker. Gives us then either Dempster/Raph to line up on the i/c bench along with two resting mids and the second ruckman.
I personally am not entirely sold on having Max/Zac/Blake all together in the same back line, but I expect that if all fit and available then they will all be selected.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
The word was when Raph was recruited that he was far more talented than X.
Now I reckon Raph has shown patches to confirm these suggestions. Make no mistake about it. Raph is going to be our next feel good story. Once he realises he belongs he will be an absolute star. Remember this guy is still pretty young and when he peaks you will see some magic. Also remember he has had some distraction along the way in his life and also had to find a way to overcome a serious medical condition. I wish I was half the man he is.
Love to you and your family Raph...up north and at the club.
Cairnsman wrote:The word was when Raph was recruited that he was far more talented than X.
X went 5th in the best draft of all time.
Raph went 8th in what some may argue was one of the worst, and the producer of only one genuine star (Adam Cooney, pick 1).
In the Raph love-in that is Saintsational, I actually feel for X. The bloke is a seriously good footballer who has shown he's more than capable of playing excellent footy. Just has his injury worries, that's all.
Both brothers can definitely make it.
perfectionist wrote:Steven Baker ?
Still spends more time in the middle than in defence. That could be changing, though.
really good discussion and I think that if the dempster works as a forward then there is a spot for raph on the bench as a flexible defender. BJ slips into the middle or forward and raph goes down back.
Is one of the many that need to keep fighting to stay in the side
FQF
loyal in the good times and bad
In richo I trust
2013 trade/draft best ever?
Billings - future brownlow medallist Longer - future best ruck
Dunstan - future captain Eli - future cult hero
Acres - future norm smith
Smug Supporter wrote:Raph is average however premiership teams have average players - it depends on how they are used
Dawson is average however is being used well
both players have tons of football ability. One has intensity and confidence. If raph can find those two ingrediants he's first 18 ability wise. Also needs to go for first option more often and back himself.
FQF
loyal in the good times and bad
In richo I trust
2013 trade/draft best ever?
Billings - future brownlow medallist Longer - future best ruck
Dunstan - future captain Eli - future cult hero
Acres - future norm smith
i remember hearing pre draft how raph had more talent than x from the scouts. I would love to see x back at his best though, he was unreal, both can be super players for us, lets just hope they make it.
and one genuine star? We picked sam fisher in that draft, so thats two
Smug Supporter wrote:Raph is average however premiership teams have average players - it depends on how they are used
Dawson is average however is being used well
both players have tons of football ability. One has intensity and confidence. If raph can find those two ingrediants he's first 18 ability wise. Also needs to go for first option more often and back himself.
If Raph could:
- Improve his spoiling and positioning
- Lift his intensity and awareness when in possession and when corralling opponents
- Ensure his disposal found teammates to advantage instead of giving them hospital passes or at their feet
...he'd be a highly-valued member of our first 18, not just 22.
He has vastly improved in a number of areas but he can't afford to relent now. What's obvious is that he has natural talent and flair. You can see that we gets the ball and runs with it.
It's just a matter of fine-tuning the other aspects in his game. Let's hope he does because he's certainly add another dimension to our backline.
python wrote:and one genuine star? We picked sam fisher in that draft, so thats two
Smug Supporter wrote:Raph is average however premiership teams have average players - it depends on how they are used
Dawson is average however is being used well
both players have tons of football ability. One has intensity and confidence. If raph can find those two ingrediants he's first 18 ability wise. Also needs to go for first option more often and back himself.
If Raph could:
- Improve his spoiling and positioning
- Lift his intensity and awareness when in possession and when corralling opponents
- Ensure his disposal found teammates to advantage instead of giving them hospital passes or at their feet
...he'd be a highly-valued member of our first 18, not just 22.
He has vastly improved in a number of areas but he can't afford to relent now. What's obvious is that he has natural talent and flair. You can see that we gets the ball and runs with it.
It's just a matter of fine-tuning the other aspects in his game. Let's hope he does because he's certainly add another dimension to our backline.
python wrote:and one genuine star? We picked sam fisher in that draft, so thats two
I stand corrected. I didn't think past #50
totally agree on all accounts and lets be honest, if he doesn't improve his intensity and work off the ball he will be dropped, ball proved that. I believe that ross loves him in there for two reasons
1. the finals last year. Ross is big on showing the same behaviours over and over. Raph did this for three weeks during the toughest period of the year (finals). Ross is putting game time into raph to get him back to this level.
2. He gives him the flexibility and run from the backline that is a coaches dream. If the opossition looks to shut down chips or gilbo he can use raph to rebound or shut don a smaller player.
I think his positioning is actualy very good, very good fooball brain. But the speed of the game means he can't stop and think like a dal santo can. He is an instinct player (see buddy franklin or stephen milne) who takes the game on.
We watch him and get fustrated that he is not doing enough getting to the next contest or pressuring the next piece of play. Hopefully he can improve on this.
FQF
loyal in the good times and bad
In richo I trust
2013 trade/draft best ever?
Billings - future brownlow medallist Longer - future best ruck
Dunstan - future captain Eli - future cult hero
Acres - future norm smith
perfectionist wrote:If it turns out that we still have an abundance of fit talent, come finals time, perhaps the AFL will allow us to play 25 or 26 so that no-one is disappointed. This seems only fair after some of the "against us" AFL decisions over the years.
I thought his awareness was excellent - as an example his recognition of positioning around the centre square and the instructions he gave team mates on multiple occasions.
I thought his positioning around the contest was excellent - putting himself in the defensive positions between the contest and the goal.
I thought his spoiling was excellent - including spoiling Minson one out on one occasion.
And I thought his disposal was very good and incisive, setting the team up - as an example the pass down the flank opposite the inter-change bench. Give him the options and he delivers.
His hands are also quick with the give in tight situations.
He is a deceptively big man with long legs and a long body which gives him a physical presence (refer a couple who have clashed with him this season - finishing their games then and there) and deceptive pace.
And he has the courage to "go" accross the front of packs as he showed on occasions particularly against Adelaide.
These are the reasons he is proven as being a very good footballer - and particularly in finals on disclosed form.
And his brother is half decent also - so I, for one, look forward to having him back in the side in 2010.
We sit adjacent to the inter-change bench where you are practically on the ground - so perhaps a different perspective of what players are achieving both with and without the ball is gained.
Clarke did spend some time off the ground against WB but probably on rotation after spending the majority of time on the ground in the previous two matches.
But when he was on the ground I thought he went pretty well - and did what he had to do to contribute to team performance - as he has done since returning from injury.
Each to his own, I guess!
Incidentally, since Baker hit with that big tackle against Adelaide he appears to have regained confidence and not looked back.
I guess the fact that there are arguments, for so many players to be part of the best 22, is one of the reasons why we are a real shot at this year.
I have a real problem trying to limit my 22 to any less than 28 or 29, so I am glad I'm not on the selection committee.
I think the club has visions for Raph as a member of our best 22 but it is up to him to perform, he can tick all the boxes to fill the role set up for him.
Every premiership team has a handful of unlucky players left to wonder what if, we will be no different.
Here's how I reckon things stand at the moment for GF day, if everyone (bar X and Allen) is fit.
STARTING 18
Max
Blake
Chips
Bakes
Gilbert
Raph
Dempster
Gardi
Lenny
Joey
Dal
Ball
BJ
Roo
Kosi
Milne
Schneider
McQualter
BENCH
From (the earlier ones are the morecertain to play)
King, Gram, Ray, CJ, Geary, McEvoy, Gwilt,
DESPERATELY UNLUCKY (BUT HE OPENED THE DOOR BY GETTING HIMSELF SUSPENDED)
Dawson
PROBABLY NOT UP TO IT
Eddy and everyone else
IMO, barring injury to someone, the only way Zac can end up with a game is if the club is prepared to move Blake out of a KPP role and use him in the sort of role that Ray or Gram are currently playing. But that's a pretty stupid idea (omitting Blake, or Raph, would be even stupider IMO).
Of course, it is more likely than not that somebody will get injured before the finals and Zac will get a go.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
Not unless you want to start sabotaging our ability to play forward pressure...
I know you area gan of three big forwards Bigcarl....but as you know I am not for the reason if that unless they are all like Roo you will end up with a lumbering forward line that the opposition can exploit.
Bang will go our ability to apply forward pressure.
Having one lumberer in Kosi is our limit...and he gets the gig because his pack marking is so good.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
saintsRrising wrote:Having one lumberer in Kosi is our limit...and he gets the gig because his pack marking is so good.
dawson's one of the quicker players at the club, actually, and is pretty good defensively ... if he wasn't he wouldn't have been able to hold down full back with aplomb all season.
saintsRrising wrote:Having one lumberer in Kosi is our limit...and he gets the gig because his pack marking is so good.
dawson's one of the quicker players at the club, actually, and is pretty good defensively ... otherwise he wouldn't have been able to hold down full back with aplomb all season.
Yes, but he is untried as a forward in our team (and at AFL level?). Given that he won't be back until Rd 19, we would have only 4 games to test him forward of full back before we are playing finals footy.
If it is considered absolutely essential to select Dawson, then the answer is to put Blake into the midfield and put Dawson in Blake's role.
But I do not consider it to be absolutely essential to select Dawson, and mucking around too much with our record-breaking backline would surely be a classic instance of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
meher baba wrote:But I do not consider it to be absolutely essential to select Dawson, and mucking around too much with our record-breaking backline would surely be a classic instance of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
zac's been an essential part of that "record-breaking backline", so i hope we're not mucking around with it too much by leaving him out and putting max back in.
as for him being untried as a forward, so is dempster ... who looks adequete as a third tall.
i just think zac's in our best 22 and it is worth exploring ways to get him in to it.
Last edited by bigcarl on Wed 29 Jul 2009 7:02pm, edited 2 times in total.
