Why I left not wanting to come again....

[MCG-Unit]

Yep got plenty to do with footy. Keep your stupid political opinions to the other forum. As for people abusing Raph being because he is Aboriginal I totally disagree. I think some think he just isnt a good player just like some want Blake dropped weekly or Jimmy or CJ when he started. I hate abusing players but isnt it reverse racism to claim we are abusing Raph because we are racist. Does that mean we can only abuse white players?

What he said

[SainterK]

Not to mention Kosi and Dal last year.....

[spert]

Apparently Roo is gay and over-rated and a fairy according to some ugly fat old North Melbourne female supporters I sat in front of one day. I still go to the footy.

[philip]

I'm sorry.. but to throw in the racist call beacause of Raph is wrong. I think that has more to do with you than anyone else. Not good form by the other supporters either.

you referring that comment to me.......i hope not...as i'm f****** certain that most of the abuse directed at raph is race related.......i have heard it too many times for that to be denied...to me it is fact.......

stinger

i love xavier and think he is definetely in our top 22.

i don't love raph because everytime he gets the ball i get nervous and i don't think he is in our top 22.

both are brothers, both are indigenous players and like/dislike clearly has nothing to do with race.

that said, i give praise when it is due and his game yesterday was his best this year and he contributed well.

philip

[joffaboy]

I'm sorry.. but to throw in the racist call beacause of Raph is wrong. I think that has more to do with you than anyone else. Not good form by the other supporters either.

you referring that comment to me.......i hope not...as i'm f****** certain that most of the abuse directed at raph is race related.......i have heard it too many times for that to be denied...to me it is fact.......

stinger

i love xavier and think he is definetely in our top 22.

i don't love raph because everytime he gets the ball i get nervous and i don't think he is in our top 22.

both are brothers, both are indigenous players and like/dislike clearly has nothing to do with race.

that said, i give praise when it is due and his game yesterday was his best this year and he contributed well.

philip

yeah great work philip.

Critisism is one thing and I have been critical of Raph for his play on occasions.

the irrational hatred of some like the old moron in the OP is not based on objective analysis of Raphs play.

Even his staunchest (but objective and fair) critic couldn't be critical of Raph yesterday.

Take yourself and Fireman. Both of you have been critical of Raph and I know Fireman has said he didn't think he was up to AFL football. Thats fair enough and thats an opinion.

However both you and he have come on here and objectively praised his game. AFAIAC this shows that your opinion can be put forward in a rational and objective manner.

From what I have heard from the Raph haters, is that their hatred is fuelled by more than football ability. They spew bile and hatred toward Raph in hatefilled generalised diatribes and idiotic sweeping statements, but are nowhere to be seen when he has a good game.

I firmly believe that there is a not so hidden agenda when it comes to Raph.

[matrix]

i would have taken a photo of them and posted it on the net....

and the week starts off with more discussions on raph clarke.....

unfarkingreal.

[Fulham_Sainter]

As a Fellow Level 2 member I feel as though I need to apologise.

I do like my beer and tend to get loud and cheer for the Saints in what is a somewhat quiet area of the supporting section. I love the view of the game from level 2 but do get annoyed at the latte drinking fans that prefer to read the paper than watch the game at times. But we have all paid a premium for the seats so respect how everyone wants to watch the game.

But what I do need to apologise for is giving Raph some stick at times. I certainly don't yell it out, but I may have made a couple of louder jokes that could have gotten on the nerve of a couple of supporters around me. I do get nervous when he has the ball but I reckon he played a good game yesterday. Problem is now we expect all our players to have cracker games as us supporters seem to have a benchmark for every player. Not everyone can be Nick, Dal etc and we need to realise that. In saying that Raph certainly exceeded my benchmark of him yesterday (after quarter time). I hope Raph can keep it up as we need all 22 on the park to challenge themselve and lift. In saying that I reckon pretty much all players have!

Also to fellow Level 2 people lets get louder! Big Saturday night stage this week, lets lift the roof off the dome!

[SainterK]

I guess maybe people don't think you're jokes are that funny....

[saint75]

As a Fellow Level 2 member I feel as though I need to apologise.

I do like my beer and tend to get loud and cheer for the Saints in what is a somewhat quiet area of the supporting section. I love the view of the game from level 2 but do get annoyed at the latte drinking fans that prefer to read the paper than watch the game at times. But we have all paid a premium for the seats so respect how everyone wants to watch the game.

But what I do need to apologise for is giving Raph some stick at times. I certainly don't yell it out, but I may have made a couple of louder jokes that could have gotten on the nerve of a couple of supporters around me. I do get nervous when he has the ball but I reckon he played a good game yesterday. Problem is now we expect all our players to have cracker games as us supporters seem to have a benchmark for every player. Not everyone can be Nick, Dal etc and we need to realise that. In saying that Raph certainly exceeded my benchmark of him yesterday (after quarter time). I hope Raph can keep it up as we need all 22 on the park to challenge themselve and lift. In saying that I reckon pretty much all players have!

Also to fellow Level 2 people lets get louder! Big Saturday night stage this week, lets lift the roof off the dome!

How much louder do you want me to get? I come home with no voice every week as it is!!!!! LOL

[joffaboy]

You have nothing to apologise for Fulham_Sainter (except for the 3-0 flogging your team gave Victory the other week ).

Everyone has cringed with some of the things Raph has done, but like you most can appreciate when he has played well.

It is not you or me or others who have objectively critisised Raph - it is the haters who wait to pounce every time he makes a minute error.

At one stage Raph slipped over and I sarcastically said to a friend that there would be three threads on it on here from the usual Raph haters. I was suprised there wasn't, however like the GT haters at the time, the usual suspects will slink away and wait to pounce if Raph ever has the temerity to ever make a mistake on the footy field.

[BringBackMadDog]

I am sick and tired of goign to the footy and having to tell St Kilda supporters to pull their heads in...again it happened this week, two old fogies bagging the crap out of Raph before the ball was even within 20 metres of him. It was the churlish, boring and obnoxious abuse I have had the displeasure to have to listen to. I eventually had enough and let forth a barrage at both of them, in the end I played the racism card which shut them up good and proper for the rest of the match.

Bottom line, we all have our favorite players and those that rub us up the wrong way BUT when we are at the game we are there to support our TEAM, this sort of garbage puts us in the class of those Richmond scum who spat on the players.

[saint66au]

I am sick and tired of goign to the footy and having to tell St Kilda supporters to pull their heads in...again it happened this week, two old fogies bagging the crap out of Raph before the ball was even within 20 metres of him. It was the churlish, boring and obnoxious abuse I have had the displeasure to have to listen to. I eventually had enough and let forth a barrage at both of them, in the end I played the racism card which shut them up good and proper for the rest of the match.

Bottom line, we all have our favorite players and those that rub us up the wrong way BUT when we are at the game we are there to support our TEAM, this sort of garbage puts us in the class of those Richmond scum who spat on the players.

Well said that man

Ive heard a rumour that a couple of Blues fans were on the recieving end of some of your best work the other week?

[degruch]

I'll repeat...'Gawd there's some fuckwits out there'. I'm not expecting any opposition to that statement this time.

[GrumpyOne]

Racism is one thing and player criticism is another.

Poor Raph gets both.

His game hasn't been up to the level that can negate criticism of a player quite yet.

His game against Adelaide was one of the best I've seen him play, and will go a long way to cancel that criticism out.

However racism is more deeply ingrained.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I feel for you Solar, it can totally ruin the enjoyment of a game when that s*** happens.
I haven't read all the replies to see if you've said whether you're in a yearly reserved seat or not (ie that they're behind you every week), but if they are, maybe you'd do well to take a small tape recorder next time and tape some of what they're saying, including what they say to you when you ask them to knock it off. If they're being abusive you could play it to one of the stadium staff and hopefully they'll come and escort them the hell out of there.

[stinger]

I'm sorry.. but to throw in the racist call beacause of Raph is wrong. I think that has more to do with you than anyone else. Not good form by the other supporters either.

you referring that comment to me.......i hope not...as i'm f****** certain that most of the abuse directed at raph is race related.......i have heard it too many times for that to be denied...to me it is fact.......

stinger

i love xavier and think he is definetely in our top 22.

i don't love raph because everytime he gets the ball i get nervous and i don't think he is in our top 22.

both are brothers, both are indigenous players and like/dislike clearly has nothing to do with race.

that said, i give praise when it is due and his game yesterday was his best this year and he contributed well.

philip

good on you......i love both of them....and gwilt......a nicer young man as you ever want to meet......but i have heard all three abused at the footy by our own fans ...not always racially.......and on here......which has never been overtly racial.......but i have my suspicions.........

[joffaboy]

Racism is one thing and player criticism is another.

Poor Raph gets both.

His game hasn't been up to the level that can negate criticism of a player quite yet.

His game against Adelaide was one of the best I've seen him play, and will go a long way to cancel that criticism out.

However racism is more deeply ingrained.

+1 Well said GO.

[stinger]

Racism is one thing and player criticism is another.

Poor Raph gets both.

His game hasn't been up to the level that can negate criticism of a player quite yet.

His game against Adelaide was one of the best I've seen him play, and will go a long way to cancel that criticism out.

However racism is more deeply ingrained.

credit where credit is due.......good post g o ....no.........i take that back......it was a great post.....

[VietNam_Saint]

As a Fellow Level 2 member I feel as though I need to apologise.

I do like my beer and tend to get loud and cheer for the Saints in what is a somewhat quiet area of the supporting section. I love the view of the game from level 2 but do get annoyed at the latte drinking fans that prefer to read the paper than watch the game at times. But we have all paid a premium for the seats so respect how everyone wants to watch the game.

But what I do need to apologise for is giving Raph some stick at times. I certainly don't yell it out, but I may have made a couple of louder jokes that could have gotten on the nerve of a couple of supporters around me. I do get nervous when he has the ball but I reckon he played a good game yesterday. Problem is now we expect all our players to have cracker games as us supporters seem to have a benchmark for every player. Not everyone can be Nick, Dal etc and we need to realise that. In saying that Raph certainly exceeded my benchmark of him yesterday (after quarter time). I hope Raph can keep it up as we need all 22 on the park to challenge themselve and lift. In saying that I reckon pretty much all players have!

Also to fellow Level 2 people lets get louder! Big Saturday night stage this week, lets lift the roof off the dome!

I didn't realise Fulham had a weekend release program ?

Are you allowed to drink beer on weekend release ?

[kaos theory]

Whoa!

This post is still going....and getting WAY over the top....

To summaries what I think:

1. I have no issue with our supporters occassionally abusing/knocking one of our players during a match. It happens, its an emotional game.

2. If one of our supporters is continually abusing one of our players, for no apparent reason, and close to me, I will tell him/her to shut the f*** up and watch the game. Eventually after a bit of a slanging match, it all calms down, and the game goes on.

3. If someone is doing number 2 (above), to an aboringinal player (like Raph) I do NOT assume he/she is racist. That would be silly. This abuser would have probably loved Winmar, and hated and abused Tim Elliot. We wouldn't concluded he/she hates whites if we heard the abuse of Tim Elliot back in 2000.

4. Footy is a very emoitional game. You are not at an accountant's meeting, you got to expect some pretty over the top reactions from time to time. Generally I let it pass, you have to. On the rare occasions there is a bit of words with one of your own supporters, its generally over and done with, and you move on.

[BringBackMadDog]

Ive heard a rumour that a couple of Blues fans were on the recieving end of some of your best work the other week?

Not one of my finer moments there Michael!! But I am getting a tad cranky in my old age. My wife still hasn't forgiven me.

But again you expect abuse from opposition supporters, and we are 16-0 for Gods sake

[degruch]

1. I have no issue with our supporters occassionally abusing/knocking one of our players during a match. It happens, its an emotional game.

...and apparently there's a lot of emotional retards out there. Honestly, I reckon these people go to a kids footy carnival and boo. Tools.

[Ghost Like]

F@ck me...now there's a straw being grasped.

I never realised our supporters were divided on political lines.

You've got your $900, go ruin another dinner party.

If you haven't already given yours back..can I have it?

You already got part of it Fireman for that sensational Moorabbin piece. You can have the rest when you come up with another gem.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I'm sorry.. but to throw in the racist call beacause of Raph is wrong. I think that has more to do with you than anyone else. Not good form by the other supporters either.

you referring that comment to me.......i hope not...as i'm f****** certain that most of the abuse directed at raph is race related.......i have heard it too many times for that to be denied...to me it is fact.......

Stinger, I was just about to post asking if anybody on here has actually heard anything racial directed at Raph.
I can honestly say I've never heard anything of that nature with most of the criticism of Raph that I've heard being with regard to his poor decision making and turnovers.
I'll let anyone have their say and their rants if that's what it takes for them to enjoy the game, but if I hear anything of a racial nature I'll be responding with my two bob's worth.
Racial vilification is not acceptable on the field or off. It has no place in this day and age, either at the football or in society in general.
Let's all have our own opinions of Raph as a player, but let us all stand together in support of him if its becoming racial. That's just not on.
Anyone else on here able to say they have heard these sorts of comments first hand?

Personally, I think Raph cops far more than his mistakes warrant. Before throwing out the racism card though, I suggest people remember:

This is the club of Nicky Winmar, and anyone who followed the Saints through the 90s was a Winmar fan.

Personally, I think AFL football is still a racist workplace. I find indiginous round, with it's racial profiling (newsflash, Liam Jurrah is not a small forward!) and condescending admiration of "freakish" skills built up as a result of lack of schooling and jobs to be sickening... but, I reckon St Kilda is ahead of the curve. The Clarke's came through St Mary's, an example of fotty as a positive force, and especially in Raph's case, IMO they don't fit the profile.

Neither did Winmar, who was embraced.

For mine, any Saints supporter spraying any player based on race isn't really a Sainter... we do ride our whipping boys though, and this time round, the whipping boy is black.

[joffaboy]

Personally, I think Raph cops far more than his mistakes warrant. Before throwing out the racism card though, I suggest people remember:

This is the club of Nicky Winmar, and anyone who followed the Saints through the 90s was a Winmar fan.

Personally, I think AFL football is still a racist workplace. I find indiginous round, with it's racial profiling (newsflash, Liam Jurrah is not a small forward!) and condescending admiration of "freakish" skills built up as a result of lack of schooling and jobs to be sickening... but, I reckon St Kilda is ahead of the curve. The Clarke's came through St Mary's, an example of fotty as a positive force, and especially in Raph's case, IMO they don't fit the profile.

Neither did Winmar, who was embraced.

For mine, any Saints supporter spraying any player based on race isn't really a Sainter... we do ride our whipping boys though, and this time round, the whipping boy is black.

Fair post BAM!

Winmar was loved by Saints fans but we didn't have the internet in the 8-s and 90's and I would suspect there would have been some overtly racial threads about Nicky's misdemeaners at the Saints. I can imagine the haters out there drawing a correlation between Nicky's walk out of the club in 93 and his aborigality.

I heard Winmar racially abused on many occasions - i heard other indegineous players racially abused in that time as well. in 95 I was next to a Saints fan that kept up a chant of "get back to Wogland" toward Carlton - because - obviously being a "wog" meant they were inferior to the white Saints fans

Racists are much more cunning nowdays because of the terrific racial discrimination laws we have in this country.

I firmly believe there is an agenda toward Raph not based on his football ability. However I must stress that this is a small minority who ring radio stations and post on Facebook.

The vast majority of critisism toward Raph by supporters is objective. I have critisised his football, so have many others with some justification.

The issue is the cowards who come on here and Facebook and subjectively abuse Raph to an intolerable level. They deserve to be called out and asked to explain their agenda.

If that makes them uncomfortable - bad luck. Racism makes the victim more than just uncomfortable and it is to be attacked at every opportunity.

You are correct BAM. STKFC as an organisation, the AFL as an organisation, and the VAST majority of fans, are ahead of the game on racism.

The AFL has done a great job, so has the STKFC. But the fight is never ended. Race and hatred will always rear its head, and when it does it needs to be called and attacked in kind.