Raph

Devilhead · Post: # 774008Post **Devilhead** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 8:36pm

22 disposals at 82%
9 contested possessions
3 tackles
1 clanger

according to heraldsun stats

White Winmar · Sun 12 Jul 2009 8:42pm

The elephant in the room is that he is consistently by far the worst player we have. Poor decision maker, no rebound off half back, mistake prone, consistently puts his team mates under pressure with his poor disposal..... need I go on? No, I haven't played AFL senior standard like Raph, so all the abusive muppets on here can get that out of the way early.

The fact is if you make an objective assessment about him, he has no place in that side. I don't know the guy personally and I'm sure he's a cracking bloke, it's just he's not up to elite AFL standard and will cost us games in the pressure cooker that is September.

BigMart · Post: # 774025Post **BigMart** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 8:43pm

No problem with his game........what is all the fuss about....he's played worse

Schillaci · Post: # 774026Post **Schillaci** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 8:43pm

Devilhead wrote:22 disposals at 82%
9 contested possessions
3 tackles
1 clanger

according to heraldsun stats

Reads well to me.
Monty 3 votes
Milney kicked 4 so 2 votes
Clarke 1 vote

joffaboy · Post: # 774028Post **joffaboy** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 8:46pm

White Winmar wrote:The elephant in the room is that he is consistently by far the worst player we have.

How could it be an elephant in the room when we have about a dozen threads on Raph every time he plays? Dont hink Raph is being ignored.

White Winmar wrote: Poor decision maker, no rebound off half back, mistake prone, consistently puts his team mates under pressure with his poor disposal..... need I go on?

Didn't you watch the second half? Agreed he was ordinary in the first half but was good in the second.

White Winmar wrote:The fact is if you make an objective assessment about him, he has no place in that side.

Not one thing you have stated is objective though. it is all subjective opinion.

White Winmar wrote: I don't know the guy personally and I'm sure he's a cracking bloke, it's just he's not up to elite AFL standard and will cost us games in the pressure cooker that is September.

More subjective opinion.

Not one thing you say has been objective.

FAIL.

plugger66 · Post: # 774037Post **plugger66** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 8:50pm

Devilhead wrote:22 disposals at 82%
9 contested possessions
3 tackles
1 clanger

according to heraldsun stats

Dont know if you watched the game and this isnt having a go at Raph but please stats are crap. Shocking first half better second half. All up average.

joffaboy · Post: # 774040Post **joffaboy** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 8:51pm

plugger66 wrote:
Devilhead wrote:22 disposals at 82%
9 contested possessions
3 tackles
1 clanger

according to heraldsun stats
Dont know if you watched the game and this isnt having a go at Raph but please stats are crap. Shocking first half better second half. All up average.

Not that is an objective post White Winmar - not silly absolutes and victim mentality.

P66 has said it how it was.

Cairnsman · Post: # 774041Post **Cairnsman** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 8:52pm

plugger66 wrote:
Devilhead wrote:22 disposals at 82%
9 contested possessions
3 tackles
1 clanger

according to heraldsun stats
Dont know if you watched the game and this isnt having a go at Raph but please stats are crap. Shocking first half better second half. All up average.

9 contested posession would be 'pleasing' to Ross

reincarnated · Sun 12 Jul 2009 8:53pm

Devilhead wrote:22 disposals at 82%
9 contested possessions
3 tackles
1 clanger

according to heraldsun stats

Stats mask issues raph has

Dawsons disposal efficiency would be high today but he had a 2/10 game

jonesy · Post: # 774065Post **jonesy** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 9:00pm

Was putrid in the first half,absolutely putrid..

Was ok in the second,did some good things,but also still had goals kicked on him,and was lucky not to give away some frees.

Surely he go's this week

Beej · Post: # 774091Post **Beej** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 9:12pm

White Winmar wrote:The elephant in the room is that he is consistently by far the worst player we have. Poor decision maker, no rebound off half back, mistake prone, consistently puts his team mates under pressure with his poor disposal..... need I go on? No, I haven't played AFL senior standard like Raph, so all the abusive muppets on here can get that out of the way early.

The fact is if you make an objective assessment about him, he has no place in that side. I don't know the guy personally and I'm sure he's a cracking bloke, it's just he's not up to elite AFL standard and will cost us games in the pressure cooker that is September.

Agreed.

Terrible first half but ok in the last 10 or so minutes when the game was put to bed. Helped by the fact the Eagles ran out of gas and he didn't have much work to do.

Looked nervous and panicky when the game was up for grabs and that is the best time to judge a player.

Eddy may have had a good last quarter and kicked a couple of big goals but that may have papered over the cracks. Terrible user of a footy.

Zac wasn't very good either. That little attempt to tap the footy around the man which didn't come off was just arrogance which cost us a goal. Needs to get that sh1t out of his game and just play the percentages in the back half. He's not in the team for his finesse.

Hayes, Ball, Gilbert, Kosi all well down. Gilbert was particularly poor whenever he got hold of the ball.

Dempster average.

Montagna and Dal Santo exceptional. Goddard, Roo and Gardiner good.

Winmar7Fan · Post: # 774154Post **Winmar7Fan** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 9:44pm

With as ordinary as I've always thought this guy is ie Clumsy, Unco, Very Slow, poor skill errors etc, so many on here defend him and see things different and think he's very talented.

So I thought obviously I might be missing something here so just persist and see what happens.

OK I give up. What is it that people can see that makes them think this frog is going to turn into a Prince?

All players can make mistakes and have off days but he's not a good player off his game he's just totally out of his depth and it stands out so clearly.

He may have a good game every now and then but IMO this is generally how he is going to be.

OLB might have seemed like he was on his own but I see things the same as him.

degruch · Post: # 774160Post **degruch** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 9:48pm

Winmar7Fan wrote:OK I give up. What is it that people can see that makes them think this frog is going to turn into a Prince?

Most recently? The 2008 finals...played very well. Hasn't had many games this year.

To be honest, whether he's average, terrible or otherwise, I think people rush to his defense because so many 'supporters' kick him in the guts over very minor issues, such as not gathering 36 possessions and kicking 5 goals each game. He has more expectation placed on him than any player I've ever seen.

Winmar7Fan · Sun 12 Jul 2009 10:05pm

degruch wrote:
Winmar7Fan wrote:OK I give up. What is it that people can see that makes them think this frog is going to turn into a Prince?
Most recently? The 2008 finals...played very well. Hasn't had many games this year.

To be honest, whether he's average, terrible or otherwise, I think people rush to his defense because so many 'supporters' kick him in the guts over very minor issues, such as not gathering 36 possessions and kicking 5 goals each game. He has more expectation placed on him than any player I've ever seen.

Minor Issues? I don't expect him to get 36 possessions but the little amount he does get he stuffs most of those up and as for last season It was only a few at the end he did alright but as I said If your out there enough your going to have a good one here and there.

The reason he cops criticism so much is because he's IMO he's just so poor.

Blake and Dawson aren't superstars either but they're a definite level above RC.

I feel sorry for Gwilt. I think he's done more to deserve being in there. The poor guy's running around in the twos while Raphs out there tripping over he's own feet.

markp · Post: # 774181Post **markp** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 10:10pm

How did Baker play?... Dawson? Fisher, Dempster, McEvoy, Ball?

degruch · Post: # 774188Post **degruch** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 10:14pm

Winmar7Fan wrote:I feel sorry for Gwilt.

Me too, he's another guy that cops it unnecessarily. When Raph's out and Gwilt's in, watch the same forumites kick him in the guts too.

3rd generation saint · Sun 12 Jul 2009 10:14pm

One stat that does defend Raph is the 82% efficiency, that means of his 22 possessions, 18 went to a St.Kilda player and too our advantage.

If all our players were getting 82% efficiency, they might as well hand us the cup now.

If Raph plays a bad game, then I will criticise him, but he has been good the last two weeks and has done his job.

Yes players kicked goals on him because the team was caught out, not just Raph, he also stopped attacks, got some hard balls and hit targets 82% of the time.

Not bad for a hack player.

markp · Post: # 774195Post **markp** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 10:17pm

3rd generation saint wrote:One stat that does defend Raph is the 82% efficiency, that means of his 22 possessions, 18 went to a St.Kilda player and too our advantage.

If all our players were getting 82% efficiency, they might as well hand us the cup now.

If Raph plays a bad game, then I will criticise him, but he has been good the last two weeks and has done his job.

Yes players kicked goals on him because the team was caught out, not just Raph, he also stopped attacks, got some hard balls and hit targets 82% of the time.

Not bad for a hack player.

Nice try, but logic and reason have no place here.

3rd generation saint · Sun 12 Jul 2009 10:21pm

Yes I know, 5 years ago it was Schwarzer, then Fiora, then last year it was Raph and Kosi, now it's Raph because they haven't an arguement for Blake for the last few weeks.

Just hope when Raph recieves his medal at 5.30pm on the last Saturaday in September he's not booed.

SaintWal · Post: # 774200Post **SaintWal** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 10:23pm

Truth be known is that every time Raph or for that fact Grammy has the ball I have my heart in my mouth.

Grammy's disposal is bordering on not being up to league level.

In defence of Raph I think he will get better with more game time. He still looks as if he is unsure whether to play on or not and by the time he decides he is either under pressure or the recipient of his disposal is. The game plan has evolved dramatically since mid last year and although he played a bit at the end of last year it is like his thought processes are still in the St.kilda game plan of early 2008 and 2007.

saint75 · Post: # 774206Post **saint75** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 10:28pm

joffaboy wrote:
Shrappy wrote:we would be better off with 17... what game are you watching.

SPUD
Only SPUD is the gutless coward who started this thread.

Agree totally.

Get of the kids case!! Why not show him a bit of support? He was not flying solo out there today in regards to mistakes and his first half was average, but he was far from the worst on the ground.

felixleo · Post: # 774207Post **felixleo** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 10:30pm

We all know his best can be very good unfortunately every time in the past when he has got to that stage he has gotten injured. I think he is still worth persisting with for a few more games to see if he can get back to his best and (touch wood) play out the year. If not there are others pushing for his spot.

markp · Post: # 774210Post **markp** » Sun 12 Jul 2009 10:32pm

3rd generation saint wrote:Yes I know, 5 years ago it was Schwarzer, then Fiora, then last year it was Raph and Kosi, now it's Raph because they haven't an arguement for Blake for the last few weeks.

Just hope when Raph recieves his medal at 5.30pm on the last Saturaday in September he's not booed.

For a while it was BJ too...

And Raph being booed would sicken, but not totally surprise me.

Bernard Shakey · Sun 12 Jul 2009 10:39pm

Keep up the good work Raph.

Please don't log onto Saintsational.

He will be there next week. I was at Sandy today and there aint nobody to take Raph's spot there.

3rd generation saint · Sun 12 Jul 2009 10:42pm

Let's also give some credit to the selectors, RL, SOS, Tudor and the match committee, does anyone think they would pick a substandard player with our list right now?
Obviously they feel Raph has something to offer the team, after all they bought him in for the biggest game of the year last week.
Feel quite confident he will be there next week because the brains trust that has got this team to the position it is in today believe he is good enough to his job.