He has a massive chance to become our 2nd ruck for the year. Gardiner is clearly our number 1 ruckman and King is a decent 2nd ruck, but nothing spectacular.
It was never going to happen this year, because he would not be able to string a good amount of games in the seniors to show some form, but he now has a chance with King being suspended for 4 weeks.
It's time for him to step up and put King into the 2's. He has 4 weeks to show everyone why he was taken pick 9.
I think its similar to the Hawthorn situation last year with Renouf, I'm hoping Ben can do the same thing and I'm pretty confident he will.
Good luck to him!
Ben McEvoy
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thirty-seven!?
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barks4eva
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Yep, I'm rapped, I would have been dropping King to give McEvoy an opportunity,
4 weeks, perfect as if by design,
King has been labouring and IMO I believe it's an opportune time to get some gametime and experience into Big Ben,
at the end of the day King might very well be the best option in September, but this at least provides us with an insurance at worst with McEvoy gaining valuable experience that might be required come finals time,
and quite possibly who knows,
the kid has a heap of talent, first round, number 9 draft selection,
he hopefully gets the next 4 weeks to develop, some belief and confidence and hopefully a position in the team,
Can we appeal and get King 6 weeks instead?
Could very well be a blessing in disguise!
4 weeks, perfect as if by design,
King has been labouring and IMO I believe it's an opportune time to get some gametime and experience into Big Ben,
at the end of the day King might very well be the best option in September, but this at least provides us with an insurance at worst with McEvoy gaining valuable experience that might be required come finals time,
and quite possibly who knows,
the kid has a heap of talent, first round, number 9 draft selection,
he hopefully gets the next 4 weeks to develop, some belief and confidence and hopefully a position in the team,
Can we appeal and get King 6 weeks instead?
Could very well be a blessing in disguise!
DO THE MATHS AND THE SQUARES ARE ALL ROOTED.
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barks4eva
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You make a very valid point, but in the event that McEvoy is required then he at least has an opportunity now to get some valuable experience!reincarnated wrote:Ruckmen who win the ball in the center and at bounces win finals
Not the mobile ruckman types, its all about dumbing down simple football,
Get the big guys leaping and winning and if they pick up a few touches well delightful
Last edited by barks4eva on Wed 10 Jun 2009 12:26am, edited 1 time in total.
DO THE MATHS AND THE SQUARES ARE ALL ROOTED.
For 2009 it will be King. Don't worry about the average games, watch Kingy when the heat is on in finals. Big Mac will get his turn soon enough.Yep, I'm rapped, I would have been dropping King to give McEvoy an opportunity,, with a heap of talent,
he hopefully gets the next 4 weeks to develop, some belief and confidence,
Can we appeal and get King 6 weeks instead?
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
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reincarnated
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To the top
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McEvoy has potential because of his size and his ability to mark difficult balls including low, so he has good hands.
BUT, in the ruck contests he is still a "P Plater" who has a long way to go particularly in regards holding position and palming the ball to advantage.
He struggles in the ruck contests so King will be sorely missed.
The last few weeks has shown us just how well Gardiner and King compliment each other and exactly how valuable both are to the side when in the side together.
With one missing, as has been the case over recent weeks because of injury and suspension, either Gardiner or King have been under more pressure in terms of contribution, including game time.
And it has shown, because McEvoy is not yet there and has to be carried.
So do not get too carried away by McEvoy playing.
When either of King or Gardiner are out of the side St Kilda suffer and suffer big time because McEvoy has a considerable way to go against the benchmark of Gardiner and King.
BUT, in the ruck contests he is still a "P Plater" who has a long way to go particularly in regards holding position and palming the ball to advantage.
He struggles in the ruck contests so King will be sorely missed.
The last few weeks has shown us just how well Gardiner and King compliment each other and exactly how valuable both are to the side when in the side together.
With one missing, as has been the case over recent weeks because of injury and suspension, either Gardiner or King have been under more pressure in terms of contribution, including game time.
And it has shown, because McEvoy is not yet there and has to be carried.
So do not get too carried away by McEvoy playing.
When either of King or Gardiner are out of the side St Kilda suffer and suffer big time because McEvoy has a considerable way to go against the benchmark of Gardiner and King.
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saintly
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well at least we have a 3rd ruck to go to since king is suspeneded. mcEvoy is not bad. he will now get more experiance then what he had thought. he is improving little by little. He has only played 3 games so far. if the saints were near the bottom of the ladder., he probably would have been played all year. now he gets 4 weeks of further experience. Its good to give the boy expeience. the biges will be this week against carlton and the geelong game where there is a report that Ottons will be back.To the top wrote:McEvoy has potential because of his size and his ability to mark difficult balls including low, so he has good hands.
BUT, in the ruck contests he is still a "P Plater" who has a long way to go particularly in regards holding position and palming the ball to advantage.
He struggles in the ruck contests so King will be sorely missed.
The last few weeks has shown us just how well Gardiner and King compliment each other and exactly how valuable both are to the side when in the side together.
With one missing, as has been the case over recent weeks because of injury and suspension, either Gardiner or King have been under more pressure in terms of contribution, including game time.
And it has shown, because McEvoy is not yet there and has to be carried.
So do not get too carried away by McEvoy playing.
When either of King or Gardiner are out of the side St Kilda suffer and suffer big time because McEvoy has a considerable way to go against the benchmark of Gardiner and King.
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may struggle to hold his place this week. I'm rapt he is getting game time and have called for it for a while.
Last week the backline was too tall and with a few players back (Milne and Gilbert) they may decide they need to drop a tall and shift Blake into the ruck against Kruezer.
I personally hope Mac gets a few games on the trot though as I have liked what I have seen.
Last week the backline was too tall and with a few players back (Milne and Gilbert) they may decide they need to drop a tall and shift Blake into the ruck against Kruezer.
I personally hope Mac gets a few games on the trot though as I have liked what I have seen.
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yipper
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Spot on, Kingy is a must for the big games in September. Macca is still a kid, don't put to much pressure on him. But he will hold his own I have no doubt. He is a very promising player.PJ wrote:For 2009 it will be King. Don't worry about the average games, watch Kingy when the heat is on in finals. Big Mac will get his turn soon enough.Yep, I'm rapped, I would have been dropping King to give McEvoy an opportunity,, with a heap of talent,
he hopefully gets the next 4 weeks to develop, some belief and confidence,
Can we appeal and get King 6 weeks instead?
I want to stand for something. I'm a loyal person and I think at the end of my career it will be great to look back and know that I'm a St Kilda person for life.
- Nick Riewoldt. May 19th 2009.
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BAM! (shhhh)
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Fantastic opportunity for him.
From watching the 2 games he's played this year, he's still a fair way behind King (who I think the OP underrates in the extreme). It has appeared though that most of the general skills needed are there, but need to:
1) be put together so he can gain the confidence to run, to attack marking contests, and demand the ball.
and, importantly,
2) Have that "go" moment where the epiphany occurs and he thinks "I can play at this level".
For the moment, he's a work in progress, but for talls more than anyone, and rucks especially, development is not a straight line. The chance to play AFL games in a good team without too much pressure of expectation on him raises the long term likelihood of his eventual success.
From watching the 2 games he's played this year, he's still a fair way behind King (who I think the OP underrates in the extreme). It has appeared though that most of the general skills needed are there, but need to:
1) be put together so he can gain the confidence to run, to attack marking contests, and demand the ball.
and, importantly,
2) Have that "go" moment where the epiphany occurs and he thinks "I can play at this level".
For the moment, he's a work in progress, but for talls more than anyone, and rucks especially, development is not a straight line. The chance to play AFL games in a good team without too much pressure of expectation on him raises the long term likelihood of his eventual success.
"Everything comes to he who hustles while he waits"
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barks4eva wrote:Yep, I'm rapped, I would have been dropping King to give McEvoy an opportunity,
4 weeks, perfect as if by design,
King has been labouring and IMO I believe it's an opportune time to get some gametime and experience into Big Ben,
at the end of the day King might very well be the best option in September, but this at least provides us with an insurance at worst with McEvoy gaining valuable experience that might be required come finals time,
and quite possibly who knows,
the kid has a heap of talent, first round, number 9 draft selection,
he hopefully gets the next 4 weeks to develop, some belief and confidence and hopefully a position in the team,
Can we appeal and get King 6 weeks instead?
Could very well be a blessing in disguise!
Well there goes Ben's career. Your ability to spot a good ruckman isnt the best.
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perfectionist
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He has played three games, has yet to have more than 7 possessions in a game, yet to take a contested mark and is yet to kick a goal. "Yet", he being declared a "gun" who should take the place of former AA and premiership ruckman Steven King.
The one ability he has shown is to win the tap, but his lack of pace around the ground will limit his chances of matching it in any one on one contests with Kreuzer who, I might add, had his worst AFL game last year against us with, you guessed it, Steven King in the ruck.
He has to play, but let's give him a chance before declaring him "the best ever" making him bound to fail. It will take at least three more years for him to start to show his real stuff (if he has any), like any ruckman.
The one ability he has shown is to win the tap, but his lack of pace around the ground will limit his chances of matching it in any one on one contests with Kreuzer who, I might add, had his worst AFL game last year against us with, you guessed it, Steven King in the ruck.
He has to play, but let's give him a chance before declaring him "the best ever" making him bound to fail. It will take at least three more years for him to start to show his real stuff (if he has any), like any ruckman.
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St Fidelius
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McEvoy has played TWO and NOT three games this year and with limited game time...perfectionist wrote:He has played three games, has yet to have more than 7 possessions in a game, yet to take a contested mark and is yet to kick a goal. "Yet", he being declared a "gun" who should take the place of former AA and premiership ruckman Steven King.
The one ability he has shown is to win the tap, but his lack of pace around the ground will limit his chances of matching it in any one on one contests with Kreuzer who, I might add, had his worst AFL game last year against us with, you guessed it, Steven King in the ruck.
He has to play, but let's give him a chance before declaring him "the best ever" making him bound to fail. It will take at least three more years for him to start to show his real stuff (if he has any), like any ruckman.
Last week he had about 47% of game time for 11 hit outs
Don't wait for the light at the end of the tunnel to appear, run down there and light the bloody thing yourself!
Not having a go at Ben here more about stats. The most useless stat in the AFL is hitouts. 11 hitouts in 47% does that mean he gets 23 in 100%. Who really cares. Did any go to advantage , did he get any good possessions around the ground. Those are the important stats. Even the game time stat is useless as most ruckman, apart from the great ones or the sides who only basically have one ruckman, play about half a game.St Fidelius wrote:McEvoy has played TWO and NOT three games this year and with limited game time...perfectionist wrote:He has played three games, has yet to have more than 7 possessions in a game, yet to take a contested mark and is yet to kick a goal. "Yet", he being declared a "gun" who should take the place of former AA and premiership ruckman Steven King.
The one ability he has shown is to win the tap, but his lack of pace around the ground will limit his chances of matching it in any one on one contests with Kreuzer who, I might add, had his worst AFL game last year against us with, you guessed it, Steven King in the ruck.
He has to play, but let's give him a chance before declaring him "the best ever" making him bound to fail. It will take at least three more years for him to start to show his real stuff (if he has any), like any ruckman.
Last week he had about 47% of game time for 11 hit outs
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perfectionist
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St Fidelius
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I am not sure if you are referring to me, as my name is not Ben...plugger66 wrote:Not having a go at Ben here more about stats. The most useless stat in the AFL is hitouts. 11 hitouts in 47% does that mean he gets 23 in 100%. Who really cares. Did any go to advantage , did he get any good possessions around the ground. Those are the important stats. Even the game time stat is useless as most ruckman, apart from the great ones or the sides who only basically have one ruckman, play about half a game.St Fidelius wrote:McEvoy has played TWO and NOT three games this year and with limited game time...perfectionist wrote:He has played three games, has yet to have more than 7 possessions in a game, yet to take a contested mark and is yet to kick a goal. "Yet", he being declared a "gun" who should take the place of former AA and premiership ruckman Steven King.
The one ability he has shown is to win the tap, but his lack of pace around the ground will limit his chances of matching it in any one on one contests with Kreuzer who, I might add, had his worst AFL game last year against us with, you guessed it, Steven King in the ruck.
He has to play, but let's give him a chance before declaring him "the best ever" making him bound to fail. It will take at least three more years for him to start to show his real stuff (if he has any), like any ruckman.
Last week he had about 47% of game time for 11 hit outs
I am not sure about King's game time, but last week...
King had 7 possessions at 71% efficiency
McEvoy had 4 possessions at 100% efficiency
Don't wait for the light at the end of the tunnel to appear, run down there and light the bloody thing yourself!
I suppose I just hate certain stats. Those last stats you have said just shows that last week our ruckmen were poor as probably was North's. No ruckman had any bearing in the game.St Fidelius wrote:I am not sure if you are referring to me, as my name is not Ben...plugger66 wrote:Not having a go at Ben here more about stats. The most useless stat in the AFL is hitouts. 11 hitouts in 47% does that mean he gets 23 in 100%. Who really cares. Did any go to advantage , did he get any good possessions around the ground. Those are the important stats. Even the game time stat is useless as most ruckman, apart from the great ones or the sides who only basically have one ruckman, play about half a game.St Fidelius wrote:McEvoy has played TWO and NOT three games this year and with limited game time...perfectionist wrote:He has played three games, has yet to have more than 7 possessions in a game, yet to take a contested mark and is yet to kick a goal. "Yet", he being declared a "gun" who should take the place of former AA and premiership ruckman Steven King.
The one ability he has shown is to win the tap, but his lack of pace around the ground will limit his chances of matching it in any one on one contests with Kreuzer who, I might add, had his worst AFL game last year against us with, you guessed it, Steven King in the ruck.
He has to play, but let's give him a chance before declaring him "the best ever" making him bound to fail. It will take at least three more years for him to start to show his real stuff (if he has any), like any ruckman.
Last week he had about 47% of game time for 11 hit outs
I am not sure about King's game time, but last week...
King had 7 possessions at 71% efficiency
McEvoy had 4 possessions at 100% efficiency
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St Fidelius
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McIntosh had just the 8 disposals but 40 hitouts and 4 marks
I've just found the game time...
King 60%
McEvoy 46%
McIntosh 81%
Hale 84%
I've just found the game time...
King 60%
McEvoy 46%
McIntosh 81%
Hale 84%
Last edited by St Fidelius on Wed 10 Jun 2009 7:11pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don't wait for the light at the end of the tunnel to appear, run down there and light the bloody thing yourself!
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skeptic
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whilst I'm not undervaluing King's importance to the team and identify him as the clear cut #2 ruck in this team atm, i take a little comfort from the idea that McEvoy is going to get 5 games in a row.
a big problem for a large number of players in recent years has been RL's (and certainly GT b4 him contributed to this largely in his last 2 seasons and moreso as he was there longer) reluctance to drop under performing players and give the guys in the 2s a go.
guys like Blake, Ackland, Rix, Gwilt, Gehrig, Milne, Dal, Voss, Ball and Fiora to name a few have all had extended runs at times where they've played atrocious football, or played when they've been really injured, and don't get me wrong some got through it (and I would never suggest that Ball, Milne, Dal should be delisted or something) and others didn't.
My point is that game time could have gone into guys like Brooks, Murray, Ferguson, McGough and Birss all of who have looked promising at 1 time or another.
They may have made it, or they may not have but IMO a lack of senior games when their form really merited it really hurt them all.
Murray: started off like a house on fire then was practically banished to the ressies for like 2 years, only got a handful of games in that time. He was a very good player for the Scorps. Then in his last season, he was given a run of 5 games to prove himself, failed and was cut. Could have been a star.
McGough: played something like 8 games in 2 years. 2 were really good, 2 were really bad, 4 were ok... again had potential to develop into a really good player or a dud but we never really found out
Ferguson: every1 remembers his game VS Melb where he kicked 5 behinds and took a screamer. Had some serious potential but we didn't get games into him and after 5 seasons it was like, what's he done.
Birss: plenty of us were stunned when the boy was cut. The general impression last year was what does he have to do to get a game?
I'm glad the McEvoys getting some game time. We need to give him every chance to make it.
a big problem for a large number of players in recent years has been RL's (and certainly GT b4 him contributed to this largely in his last 2 seasons and moreso as he was there longer) reluctance to drop under performing players and give the guys in the 2s a go.
guys like Blake, Ackland, Rix, Gwilt, Gehrig, Milne, Dal, Voss, Ball and Fiora to name a few have all had extended runs at times where they've played atrocious football, or played when they've been really injured, and don't get me wrong some got through it (and I would never suggest that Ball, Milne, Dal should be delisted or something) and others didn't.
My point is that game time could have gone into guys like Brooks, Murray, Ferguson, McGough and Birss all of who have looked promising at 1 time or another.
They may have made it, or they may not have but IMO a lack of senior games when their form really merited it really hurt them all.
Murray: started off like a house on fire then was practically banished to the ressies for like 2 years, only got a handful of games in that time. He was a very good player for the Scorps. Then in his last season, he was given a run of 5 games to prove himself, failed and was cut. Could have been a star.
McGough: played something like 8 games in 2 years. 2 were really good, 2 were really bad, 4 were ok... again had potential to develop into a really good player or a dud but we never really found out
Ferguson: every1 remembers his game VS Melb where he kicked 5 behinds and took a screamer. Had some serious potential but we didn't get games into him and after 5 seasons it was like, what's he done.
Birss: plenty of us were stunned when the boy was cut. The general impression last year was what does he have to do to get a game?
I'm glad the McEvoys getting some game time. We need to give him every chance to make it.