Gwilt , Raph , Geary ,Mcqualter , dawson all nervous

[gottaluvit]

no point yelling at me - who's stressed about it? Just some talk.

[saintspremiers]

Lost me why Mini and Zac would be nervous. Did someone break into their house last night.

lol.

Nah, don't worry plugger, unfortunately there are a few on here that are just a tad clueless!

[InkerSaint]

You could have guessed this was a selection thread - but the title's wrong. The nervous ones will be Gilbert and Milne.

[bergholt]

players get dropped through injury, or bad form.
you have to earn your spot.

milne, gilbert and gardiner have all earned their spots multiple times in the first half of the year. if all of them are fit, all of them should come back in. can you dispute that?

atm, everyone EVEN JIMMY GWILT are doing there job, so there is no reason to change that, obviously.
the only exception, was raph clarke
but give him time to and he will shine.

not sure what your argument is here. you seem to suggest that no-one should be dropped. but there are three players who have to come in because they've earned their spots. so who goes out? don't be a wimp, name names.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

WE HAVE JUST MADE CLUB HISTORY AND ARE SITTING SNUGGLY AT THE TOP OF THE LADDER AT 11-0
lighten up saints fans.
ross lyon has done a wonderful job in the box this year.
players get dropped through injury, or bad form.
you have to earn your spot.
atm, everyone EVEN JIMMY GWILT are doing there job, so there is no reason to change that, obviously.
the only exception, was raph clarke
but give him time to and he will shine.

Nice barackers post.

However, Gilbert's been nothing short of terrific in 2009, and IMO it's been pretty clear a goalkicking crumber such as Milne will provide clear improvement. Our conversion of inside 50s just hasn't been as regular with him out of the side.

However, while Gilber for Raph is pretty straightforward (and really no insult to Raph, love him or hate him he hasn't been in the same league as Gilbert), who to drop for Milne is harder.

IMO Mini's even less chance to be dropped than Dawson. The combination of grounball, tackling, quality setups for teammates has been something we've often moaned about lacking. Gwilt would be pretty unlucky to go out after a pretty good game, but you've got to drop someone to bring someone in.

And the best side available is what it's all about. Milne has the runs on the board.

[saintsRrising]

From the listed players in the OP.

Mini will not be nervous.

He is the safest of that list group.

[St Fidelius]

From the listed players in the OP.

Mini will not be nervous.

He is the safest of that list group.

Agreed...

He is averaging 1 goal a match this year..

averages 4 tackles a match this year (7 last game)

averages 16 disposals @ 79% efficiency

Geary is averaging 19 disposals and 3 tackles a match this year

Just who does the OP think they will be replaced by

[meher baba]

My twopenny's worth, in the unlikely event that anyone is interested.

It is now pretty clear that Gardi will come in for King. McEvoy will keep his spot.

If 100% fit (why risk them otherwise), Milne and Gilbert should come back in. Down the track, Dempster will challenge as well.

It seems to me that those at risk are (in no particular order) Gwilt, Raph, Geary, Dawson, McQualter, Baker, Schneider, Blake.

Let's look at each one in turn.

Gwilt He is currently playing a role that Lyon clearly deems to be essential but which few others at the club can play. I agree with BigMart and others that he has been at best only moderately successful. But who can we replace him with? In the long term, there's Allen, and Lynch and perhaps even Miles. But none of these seem to be as ready as Gwilt ATM.

In the short term, I think only BJ is capable of playing the role Lyon is looking for someone to play, and even he doesn't have Gwilt's potential physical presence. But I think we all prefer BJ to play a more mobile role. Gilbert is surely better as back, and Goose would be a major gamble, and (unless things have changed) was always pretty useless at kicking for goal in pressure situations. As I suggest below, if we have to move someone forward out of the backline because we have too many good players down there, I'd prefer Fisher to Gilbert.

I therefore reckon that Gwilt will keep his spot for the time being, but he will need to at least maintain his standard of play against the Roos to retain it until the finals.

Raph If I were Lyon, I would persevere with him for at least the next 2 games. I know it's exciting to be 11-0, but we have only played one team so far that is at all likely to feature in the last two weeks of the season (the Bulldogs). The other major threats are Geelong, Hawthorn (anyone who writes them off at this stage is nuts) and IMO, Carlton (a team that could do anything on its day: I'll be relieved if we beat them on Friday). OK, so Raph has so far been pretty useless against the Roos and the Demons, reasonable against the Lions and (before he was injured) pretty good against the Swans.

But we all know that Raph is the sort of player who can make a big impact against top teams like Geelong and the Hawks. I'm far less certain about Geary, McQualter, Gwilt, Dawson and even Gilbert and Schneider (think back to his performance in the 2008 final series. What, you can't remember it? I rest my case m'lud). Raph is also a confidence player. Send him back to the VFL, and he's likely to lose it entirely. Leave him in the seniors for a bit longer, and he might blossom once again. We are 4 wins and a massive % clear of 3rd place, we can live with the risk ATM.

Geary Has played pretty well so far this season, but there are lots of small, hard running, hard tackling players ahead of him in the lineup (try Ball, Montagna, Lenny, CJ, McQualter and possibly Schneider for starters). So he is probably hovering on the borderline of 22nd-23rd picked each week. He's hardly a required player at this stage of his career.

Dawson He's just playing too damn well to be left out IMO. He's even started to show some attacking flair. The Hawks were insane to get rid of him: it just goes to show that you should always judge a player by what they can do and not just by the mistakes they make (remember that point, all of you who are down on Raph ATM).

If push comes to shove, I'd push Fisher to the forward line so that Dawson can stay in.

McQualter Like Dawson, he's just playing too well to be left out of the AFL team. If it were a choice between McQualter and Schneider, it would be a close run thing ATM.

Baker At something approaching his best, he's an important team player. But he certainly has been a bit below his best lately: possibly he's struggling with his fitness. Still, like Raph and more than Geary and co., he's potentially a big game player. However, I also agree that Dempster will eventually challenge him for his spot.

Schneider Has only come close to starring in one game that he's played for the Saints that I can recall. Was supposedly devastating for the Swans in some games, including against us in the 2005 PF, but I'm never quite sure about this because I have noticed that many footy fans and even some in the media seem to get him mixed up with Amon Buchanan, who is a far superior player.

Schneider is a very accurate kick for goal, and his foot skills also make him a good link man between the midfield and the forward line. But he doesn't seem to create as many opportunities as one might perhaps hope. He seems to rely on/need other players to make things happen. Which is why, unlike Milne, he often tends to become a bit invisible when the chips are really down.

He's ok, but I would rather have genuine fighters in my team like Geary, McQualter, Baker, Blake and (when he can find the "on" button) Raph.

Blake A player with a big heart and a terrific attitude. Put him down back, on the wing, in and under, in the ruck, even at full forward: the guy will always have a red hot go and he is capable of starring on his day. Put him at any one of the 16 clubs - even Geelong or Hawthorn - and I still reckon he'd get a game more often than not: often ahead of seemingly more talented rivals. It's incredibly easy for fans to underestimate the sort of player he is (which is why I, and so many others, were wrong about CJ). But coaches usually have a better perspective on these things, which is why I expect Blake and CJ to continue to be among the first selected each week.

And a final word on Dempster. The guy has a good kick, some physical strength and reasonable pace. He's no superstar, and I reckon that he will have to fight his way back in. (I know some people on here thinks that Ross tends to play favourites, but Eddy is now struggling to get back in, and I would expect to see Dempster go down the same route.) Our backline is currenlty close to world record pace for the fewest points.conceded in a season. So Dempster cannot be a required player.

[St Fidelius]

meher baba....

With respect to Geary...

He is already in the 22 and averaging 19 disposals and 3 tackles a match this year...

Just how come you state that ...

He's hardly a required player at this stage of his career.

Just who do you think can do better, that's out of the 22???

[Longwayfromhome]

What if the COACH wants no change. Hang on guys. This means that Milne and Gilbert might spend another week on the sidelines.
This is the New St Kilda. We don't automatically offer a spot to those seen as regulars.
Hold on. maybe Max will be dropped for Gilbert. Looks kind of strange doesn't it !

[borderbarry]

meher baba, a good post. I am glad I am not a selector this week, apart from Gards replacing Kingy. I agree that Milne and Gilbert have to come back in, but be damned if I can see who to drop. Making it more dificult is the fact the Zebras are not playing this weekend.

[White Winmar]

Sad as it is to say, Max is probably under as much pressure as anyone. He looked very rusty on Saturday, even allowing for the fact that he is still feeling his way. I'm a huge fan of Max, but the current environment provides us with a dilemma most clubs would love to have. Selection is a brutal game at the saints atm. It's Darwinism at its best. Perform or else.

That puts Raph in danger as well. For all the logic in persevering with him, the truth is he was amongst our worst on the weekend, making poor decisions and firing handballs at the feet of his team mates, or when they were surrounded by the opposition. I think the main problem with Raph is that his best and worst are just too far apart. I've never seen a player with this sort of dichotomy in ability and performance.

With King gone for at least a month, McEvoy may get a good run establishing his credentials, but Blake may be preferred. As for Milne, he must come straight back in. His absence over the past fortnight has highlighted that we struggle when the ball hits the ground and he's not around, at least exerting pressure. I think Milne is one of the most underrated and unfairly maligned players in the comp. His stats are superior to all the other so called "gun" small forwards we hear about, such as Davis, Medhurst, Betts etc.

MB, I think you're being harsh on Schneider. I know he attracted some vicarious glory from the efforts of Buchanan when he was at Sydney, but he showed last year that even when he wasn't playing well he could still rack up the goals. 28 in his first year was a pretty fair effort and he's backing up again this year. Apart from that, he is more reliable in front of the sticks than most in the side.

Finally there's Gilbo. Another automatic selection. He has some real "X" factor and I don't think any opposition side has yet worked out how to combat him effectively. Adds some much needed dash and pace as well. In the end we are in the best shape we've been in for a very long time, perhaps ever. Isn't it great that we are debating the relative merits of so many quality players?

I can't wait for this Friday night. Carlton are coming all right. It's only a wet dream though. I'm sure we'll give them a decent reality check and show them just how far off the pace they really are.

[maverick]

Let's see how Max goes this Friday night on Fev, then we can remember why we love him so much.

[claystreet]

Let's see how Max goes this Friday night on Fev, then we can remember why we love him so much.

I'd love watching Max do the Fev over but Max looks underdone, needs a couple more full games. Never question the guys guts or ability but he needs the run and i dont think he will hit his straps for a few weeks. Hope i am wrong. He sure looks like a chance to be dropped but he needs game time coming into the break. For mine hes in but who knowes.

[villasaint]

leave geary and mcqualer off that list. Gwilt shows glimpses of brilliance but still big ????? Raph still ?????

[saint66au]

If theres one opponent Max sets himself for each year, its Fev.

Watch him step up a notch or six on Friday night

[saintspremiers]

If theres one opponent Max sets himself for each year, its Fev.

Watch him step up a notch or six on Friday night

Agree.

And I'm sure the Channel 7 execs would be very keen to play up this match-up pre match!

[maverick]

Let's see how Max goes this Friday night on Fev, then we can remember why we love him so much.

I'd love watching Max do the Fev over but Max looks underdone, needs a couple more full games. Never question the guys guts or ability but he needs the run and i dont think he will hit his straps for a few weeks. Hope i am wrong. He sure looks like a chance to be dropped but he needs game time coming into the break. For mine hes in but who knowes.

Couldn't believe they would drop Max after one match, couldn't believe they would EVER drop him

[saintly_safes]

This will go against the grain here,but I think Dawson is clearly our number 1 fullback now,and Max might have to make way for him,as I don't think they both should be in the side. Max has been a great servant,however his time has come to be our emergency FB in my opinion

Raph go's for Gilbert,or Milne or anyone for that matter.

Max if fit is a walk up starter . IMO he is the best full back in the afl ahead of Scarlet,Glass ,Lake & who ever else is out there. He may well be in the twilight of his career but will get Fev this weekend & think he will hold him to less than 5 & if he does we will win.I think its a bit premature to be writting off a club legend just yet.

[bergholt]

What if the COACH wants no change. Hang on guys. This means that Milne and Gilbert might spend another week on the sidelines.

if that's what the coach wants then he's a moron, and you'd be stupid for supporting him in that.

they're clearly in our best side. as is gardiner. refusing to make a change to the side until we lose a game leads inevitably to - guess what - a loss. and then piles of recriminations. and then six players you have to drop because they've all been carried through increasingly tighter wins.

[saintsRrising]

What if the COACH wants no change. Hang on guys. This means that Milne and Gilbert might spend another week on the sidelines.
!

Pigs might fly too..

If both are fit to play they will be in the team to play the Blues.

Both exhibited the TEAM ethic and workrate that Lyon demads and both are in stirling form.

So both will be straight back in.

Players are not kept in the team for workrate and team play alone...ie Eddy.

Hpwever good players will not come in unless ready..ie Max...and Goose.

Milne and Gilbert are both ready...and desrving.
Will both play if fit.

[bigcarl]

What if the COACH wants no change. Hang on guys. This means that Milne and Gilbert might spend another week on the sidelines.

if that's what the coach wants then he's a moron, and you'd be stupid for supporting him in that.

they're clearly in our best side. as is gardiner. refusing to make a change to the side until we lose a game leads inevitably to - guess what - a loss. and then piles of recriminations. and then six players you have to drop because they've all been carried through increasingly tighter wins.

ross did say in his press conference on saturday that milne and gilbert are starting 22 players, so i'd be amazed if they don't play if fit.

[saintsRrising]

(I know some people on here thinks that Ross tends to play favourites, but Eddy is now struggling to get back in, and I would expect to see Dempster go down the same route.) .

I don't think RL plays favourites at all.....at least if the implication that he plays players just because he "likes" them.


RL chooses players that put team above individual and who deliver the task that he has set them.

This may mean that RL will select a less fancied player because that player has beeter committment to team play and the workrate that RL expects.

ie Mini has learnt this and is now a regular.

However most of our more "gifted" players are on board too....which means players like Eddy have been squeezed out.

Two more will be squeezed out this week.

PS..On Dempster he did a knee....and so it will take a while to recover good form.

[saintly]

What if the COACH wants no change. Hang on guys. This means that Milne and Gilbert might spend another week on the sidelines.
This is the New St Kilda. We don't automatically offer a spot to those seen as regulars.
Hold on. maybe Max will be dropped for Gilbert. Looks kind of strange doesn't it !

even not automaticsally offering spot to regulars should exclude milne if he is fit. Milne has been missed for his flair and goal kicking being under or near the big goal kickers of kosi and reiwoldt.