Brian Waldron and Clubs relocating

[howlinwolf]

I was listening to SEN this morning and heard KB talking about the North Melbourne/ Gold coast proposition.

Brian Waldron was asked his thoughts on whether a club should stay under their traditional club or move and lose their identity.

He said he had a good mate that was a Fitzroy supporter and changed to the Brisbane Lions when Fitzroy folded. From there they won 3 premierships so the answer was obvious.....

I always thought he was good for us as he is like a terrier and speaks his
mind however I never knew these were his beliefs.

Personally as hard as it is to say it I would prefer we kept our identity
and had less success than lose it and have more success.

I'd guess most of our supporters would think the same ?

It may have been a good thing he's moved on in this current climate
with constant pressure on clubs to relocate.

[Spinner]

I don't think the comparison with Fitzroy was a less sucess/more success equation.

It was a matter of existence.



And I like many others are so one eyed that you would hold off until the final hour and never admit to following the relocated/merged team.

But in the end - I know I would follow what ever was left of the Saints, even if it was less than 1%.

[Juggernaut]

Many years ago I happened to get an invite to a presidents lunch I was on a table with some prominent Fitzroy benefactors and a couple of St Kilda officials one of whom was a extremely good 800m athlete. they had no cause to suspect I was a saints supporter but in conversation they openly mentioned that if the saints were offered the money Fitzroy was they would of happily taken it and merged.
I was shocked at the time however we were struggling in $ terms at the time and weren't the only one, the point is it you cannot be independent without money behind the club and that means having healthy membership numbers year after year despite on field success or not.

[howlinwolf]

I am certain Wally intimated it was a far better option for a club to relocate and find success than stay and struggle.

Given that I'm glad he has gone. I'd hate to have him steering the ship with
an attitude like that.

Anyway who's to say success won't come to a particular club ? Hawthorn
could have merged with Melbourne and they'd never have seen the 2008
flag.

[Moods]

As a previous barracker for the roys, and now a 11 year member of the saints I feel qualified to give an opinion. A more passionate Fitzroy family you couldn't meet. We went EVERY week and had the same spot on the fence at the Junction Oval, then Victoria Park, then Princes Park. My mum even worked as a volunteer at the roys. Once the roys dissolved there was no way any of us was ever going to follow an interstate team called Brisbane, which contained maybe one or two of our current players. Myself and my younger brother both wanted to follow a Victorian team, but were raised to despise the big Melbourne Clubs. We chose the saints. My eldest bro chose the doggies and my 2nd eldest brother doesn't follow anyone. My mum and dad follow the roos.

I never felt that I would ever follow any other team other than Fitzroy, let alone feel the passion that I felt for the roys.

I recall going to the 97 GF thinking, 'this is weird, I hope they win but I'll be okay if they lose.' By 2004 I was well and truly into the saints. I was at the prelim with my younger brother and mates who barrack for the saints. I was shattered after the game. Since 2004 (when I stopped playing footy) I have barely missed a saints game in Melbourne and will travel interstate to watch the saints once a year.

My point being out of all this (to my relief) is that you can find that same passion for another team/club. My brother who doesn't follow a club anymore is sceptical, but it can happen. I recall feeling sadness in the 98 prelim when the lions played the roos at the G and seeing the old Fitzroy flags waving and hearing the club song. I have NEVER felt anything since though, other than bitterness towards the AFL. I am happy for other Fitzroy fans who identify with the lions, however my opinion is that once that club is gone it is GONE. Calling it the Sydney Saints or whatever is a different club to me. THe kangaroos, for better or worse, made the right choice to keep their identity in Melbourne. The saints should fight tooth and nail to stay in Melbourne forever. Saints supporters should NEVER get complacent about that.

[evertonfc]

Interesting thoughts, Moods. Thanks for sharing them.

I reckon footy's changed more than we realise, though. For example, think about how hard it will be for the AFL to kill off North Melbourne.

They made $1m last year, have 30,000 members...freakin' impossible. They only way they'll die is if nobody signs up and they don't make a profit.

Sort out their stadium deal and they start making a profit, and then you have to wonder - how can you destroy a popular, profitable entity?

[asiu]

north sydney (arl) supporters are still asking that question

[Bernard Shakey]

Interesting thoughts, Moods. Thanks for sharing them.

I reckon footy's changed more than we realise, though. For example, think about how hard it will be for the AFL to kill off North Melbourne.

They made $1m last year, have 30,000 members...freakin' impossible. They only way they'll die is if nobody signs up and they don't make a profit.

Sort out their stadium deal and they start making a profit, and then you have to wonder - how can you destroy a popular, profitable entity?

If North have 30,000 members, why are they getting 20,000 to home games?
If they made $1m last year, was it profit, or did they just make $1m?

North will be gone within 5 years and probably much less than that.

[Moods]

I agree Everton - but how many members will North have next year and the year after? I know the old Fitzroy would have been lucky to have more than 5000 13 years ago. I know b/c my mum was the membership lady and she knew almost every single member by name

If the north people are fair dinkum (and I mean supporters) then they have to turn up to games and show the AFL they give a stuff. Otherwise the AFL will just let them die.[/quote]

[casey scorp]

I'm not so sure that NM will survive at Arden Street. Their membership will dwindle as the people who first bought memberships in 2008 to help keep the club going (including supporters of opposition clubs) drop off in future years.

While the GC might make sense as a location, it is reasonably pointless without an 18th club. The AFL seems absolutely committed to Western Sydney, so how to deal with the Tassie "problem" of strong local support for AFL footy and for getting an AFL club, coupled with the political support they are developing.

Simple......as NM financially haemorrhages again within a couple of years make the offer again to relocate. But this time to Tassie.

Benefits:

* Keeps the Tasmanians happy, and of the back of the AFL
* Keeps the politicians off the AFL's back (remember a Senate inquiry was sheld for Pete's sake)
* Reduces the number of teams in Melbourne (oh that's right - that's no longer an objective)
* satisfies the general footy supporter who can't understand why the AFL is ignoring Tassie and chasing Western Sydney
* is actually close to Melbourne, and NM supporters can make a few trips over the Strait.

[Ghost Like]

Cheers Moods, great insight...welcome aboard.

[Seaford_Saint]

North will be gone within 5 years and probably much less than that.

Why should that be the case???

The TV rights are going to generate over $1Bil when next re-negotiated..... sure less than 0.5% can subsidise the continuation of club that has a rich history of over-achieving.

The lesson learned from Fitzroy is that it should NEVER be allowed to happen again!!

Here's an idea.... perhaps if North relocated to the City of Casey, they could generate enough revenue to overpower the financial might of Collingwood, Hawthorn and Essendon combined!!

[Teflon]

As a previous barracker for the roys, and now a 11 year member of the saints I feel qualified to give an opinion. A more passionate Fitzroy family you couldn't meet. We went EVERY week and had the same spot on the fence at the Junction Oval, then Victoria Park, then Princes Park. My mum even worked as a volunteer at the roys. Once the roys dissolved there was no way any of us was ever going to follow an interstate team called Brisbane, which contained maybe one or two of our current players. Myself and my younger brother both wanted to follow a Victorian team, but were raised to despise the big Melbourne Clubs. We chose the saints. My eldest bro chose the doggies and my 2nd eldest brother doesn't follow anyone. My mum and dad follow the roos.

I never felt that I would ever follow any other team other than Fitzroy, let alone feel the passion that I felt for the roys.

I recall going to the 97 GF thinking, 'this is weird, I hope they win but I'll be okay if they lose.' By 2004 I was well and truly into the saints. I was at the prelim with my younger brother and mates who barrack for the saints. I was shattered after the game. Since 2004 (when I stopped playing footy) I have barely missed a saints game in Melbourne and will travel interstate to watch the saints once a year.

My point being out of all this (to my relief) is that you can find that same passion for another team/club. My brother who doesn't follow a club anymore is sceptical, but it can happen. I recall feeling sadness in the 98 prelim when the lions played the roos at the G and seeing the old Fitzroy flags waving and hearing the club song. I have NEVER felt anything since though, other than bitterness towards the AFL. I am happy for other Fitzroy fans who identify with the lions, however my opinion is that once that club is gone it is GONE. Calling it the Sydney Saints or whatever is a different club to me. THe kangaroos, for better or worse, made the right choice to keep their identity in Melbourne. The saints should fight tooth and nail to stay in Melbourne forever. Saints supporters should NEVER get complacent about that.

Great post Moods......careful saying it round here though as saints 43 will be along to tell you how you arent a 'real' saints fan...

[Moods]

No worries mate. If we win a flag I'll be celebrating like a 'real' supporter.

[Saint Bev]

No worries mate. If we win a flag I'll be celebrating like a 'real' supporter.

Interesting post Moods, but drop the "if" to "when" we win a flag

As a Sainter living in Qld, what I saw with the Bears/Lions is that they didn't embrace their history. They took the identity of a new team and in doing so lost the old Fitzroy supporters who no longer felt part of the club. Even in the club rooms, no photos of past players.

North Melbourne was different. Where as I totally understand why they stayed in Melbourne, long term I think it will be a bad decision. The GOld Coast would have embraced them more than possibly a new side. The Gold Coast is double the size to when the Bears started. Alot are from Melb & Tas, AFL thinking. They understand the history and would have embraced the opportunity to have a Victorian side as there local side. Even if it was their second team, they were behind them. And I don't think North had to give up their identity as much as Fitzroy did.

[Enrico_Misso]

Great post Moods.

But if for some reason the Saints folded or relocated interstate I would NEVER EVER follow another AFL team.

I might just support Sandy.

I would still follow AFL but become a chardonnay supporter and go along to blockbuster games just to watch a good contest without barracking for either team.

[plugger66]

Great post Moods.

But if for some reason the Saints folded or relocated interstate I would NEVER EVER follow another AFL team.

I might just support Sandy.

I would still follow AFL but become a chardonnay supporter and go along to blockbuster games just to watch a good contest without barracking for either team.

Not going to happen but why wouldnt you follow the saints if they went interstate. You would still see them live 6-8 times a year and then on TV the rest of the time. You would see them live a lot more than our interstate supportors see them now.

[Enrico_Misso]

Not going to happen but why wouldnt you follow the saints if they went interstate. You would still see them live 6-8 times a year and then on TV the rest of the time. You would see them live a lot more than our interstate supportors see them now.

What happened to Fitzroy was not a relocation.
It was a total takeover.
The new "merged" club president (Noel Gordon?) even joked about it at the time.
It was basically an obliteration.
They have subsequently, after doing the sums, tried to woo back the old Fitzroy supporters but basically Fitzroy died at the hand of the AFL.

If we were forced to become the Southport Saints my bitterness towards the AFL would make me view them as a "different" team.

It's bad enough moving our "base" to Seaford !

[Saints43]

As a previous barracker for the roys, and now a 11 year member of the saints I feel qualified to give an opinion. A more passionate Fitzroy family you couldn't meet. We went EVERY week and had the same spot on the fence at the Junction Oval, then Victoria Park, then Princes Park. My mum even worked as a volunteer at the roys. Once the roys dissolved there was no way any of us was ever going to follow an interstate team called Brisbane, which contained maybe one or two of our current players. Myself and my younger brother both wanted to follow a Victorian team, but were raised to despise the big Melbourne Clubs. We chose the saints. My eldest bro chose the doggies and my 2nd eldest brother doesn't follow anyone. My mum and dad follow the roos.

I never felt that I would ever follow any other team other than Fitzroy, let alone feel the passion that I felt for the roys.

I recall going to the 97 GF thinking, 'this is weird, I hope they win but I'll be okay if they lose.' By 2004 I was well and truly into the saints. I was at the prelim with my younger brother and mates who barrack for the saints. I was shattered after the game. Since 2004 (when I stopped playing footy) I have barely missed a saints game in Melbourne and will travel interstate to watch the saints once a year.

My point being out of all this (to my relief) is that you can find that same passion for another team/club. My brother who doesn't follow a club anymore is sceptical, but it can happen. I recall feeling sadness in the 98 prelim when the lions played the roos at the G and seeing the old Fitzroy flags waving and hearing the club song. I have NEVER felt anything since though, other than bitterness towards the AFL. I am happy for other Fitzroy fans who identify with the lions, however my opinion is that once that club is gone it is GONE. Calling it the Sydney Saints or whatever is a different club to me. THe kangaroos, for better or worse, made the right choice to keep their identity in Melbourne. The saints should fight tooth and nail to stay in Melbourne forever. Saints supporters should NEVER get complacent about that.

Great post Moods......careful saying it round here though as saints 43 will be along to tell you how you arent a 'real' saints fan...

Clearly a real supporter, has been a member for 11 years and goes to nearly every match.

Spot the difference.

[desertsaint]

I worked in sa for a project management company that had backers prepared to invest millions in relocating fitzroy to adelaide. This was in 1987. They already played in the state colours so the only change would be in name - adelaide lions. Initially looked at playing games at south adelaide's ground in noarlunga.
This was the company that prepared carrara for the bears, ran the sanctuary cove event in 88, and brought the grand prix to phillip island.
My personal belief at the time was that south aussies would never except a former vic club representing them. This was probably the biggest factor in the bid falling over before it became public. But it made me realise that fitzroy were living on borrowed time.
Likewise with the roos!

[Moods]

One thing I learnt over time, is that it's definitely a personal choice. Some like Plugger will shrug their shoulders and follow their club wherever they go. That's fine. Others will feel betrayed or bitter. Personally I reckon the stage of your life has a big bearing. I was 26years old when the roys merged. Still old enough to find a new club and embrace it. Now I'm 39, if it had happened now, I reckon I would have stuck with the merger or do what another poster said, and just attend games that interested me.

I've always loved footy and missed that euphoric feeling after a game when your team has won unexpectedly or played out of their skin. Always felt sorry for ppl who never got to experience the emotions of AFL. I recall coming home after a NAB cup game in 2004 when we smashed the bombers in the semi final. I was ecstatic - not b/c we had won, but for some reason that was the moment when I fell in love with the club. I recall roaring for the team like I used to for Fitzroy. Before I was just pleased when the saints won, now I was excited. It was like starting a new relationship after the breakup of an old one. You never think you'll find anything as good, but suddenly you do.

Anyhow hopefully it will never even be on the agenda of the AFL and the saints can set themselves up so that if a club is ever looked at, it will never be us.