team R11

[PJ]

both will walk back in when fully fit imo. bona fide starting 18 players.

Who goes then? and where does that fit with the winning form policy Ross has at present?

[Thinline]

There seems to be an opinion that Zac and Max are the same kind of player - ever thought that Zac is doing Max's role and that perhaps this might free him up a bit. I don't think they are anything alike, i think it's more like Zac can cover that role and do perhaps more.

Yes. You could be right. I may be underestimating Zac's run and carry because for the most part he's been playing deep in defence. I shouldn't assume that means he CAN'T play an alternative role. Let's have a look at him then.

[InkerSaint]

But Milne and Gilbert might bide their time to return pending other injuries or suspension.

both will walk back in when fully fit imo. they are bona fide starting 18 players and a couple of lesser lights will make way for them.

If either of them did it as a result of one of the original R1 starting 22 being dropped - as opposed to out injured or suspended - it would be a precedent. It hasn't happened this year.

The only player who has played seniors and not been re-selected at the next available opportunity is Robert Eddy. This has been the only exception to the selection logic.

[bigcarl]

both will walk back in when fully fit imo. bona fide starting 18 players.

Who goes then? and where does that fit with the winning form policy Ross has at present?

guys like gwilt, macqualter and raph need to be earning their keep.

milne is a very important goalkicker and gilbert has been one of the form defenders in the competition (who can also possibly play forward).

i'd be surprised if the club doesn't field its best 22 and, imo, those two are in it if fit.

[InkerSaint]

Gwilt, McQualter, and Raph are earning their keep. And Blake. The idea that these guys are passengers is rubbish.

This "lesser lights" stuff is nonsense. Ross' golden rule, win or lose, is effort.

[bigcarl]

Gwilt, McQualter, and Raph are earning their keep. And Blake. The idea that these guys are passengers is rubbish.

This "lesser lights" stuff is nonsense. Ross' golden rule, win or lose, is effort.

i'll bet you both will walk back in when fit.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

There seems to be an opinion that Zac and Max are the same kind of player - ever thought that Zac is doing Max's role and that perhaps this might free him up a bit. I don't think they are anything alike, i think it's more like Zac can cover that role and do perhaps more.

For mine, as much as I disagree with Perfectionist on Max, one of the things I've liked about Dawson this year is his willingness and ability to contest the mark. Combined with his willingness to run up the ground and be a part of the play, I suspect this would stand Dawson in good stead to play farther up the ground - which I'm not sure Max would be as well suited to. The skillset Max brings is perfect for a fullback shutting down an opponent, but that's really the only role I'm interested in getting from Max Hudghton.

Dawson I'd like to see further up the ground. While I suspect compared to Gilbo he'll be found wanting at ground level, I can see him pressing someone like Blake as a defensive option on the HB line, to eventually win himself a spot in a best 22 that includes Max.

[Richter]

guys like gwilt, macqualter and raph need to be earning their keep.

Agreed re Gwilt, who IMO is not kicking enough goals to justify his place as a CHF for much longer. Might be saved by the lack of an alternative (Lynch too young, Allen LTI)

McQualts I am happy is doing a decnt role as an ancillary tackling mid who is snagging an av. of a goal a game this year.

Raph - returning from injury. Will come good over the next month IMO.

[bigcarl]

Agreed re Gwilt, who IMO is not kicking enough goals to justify his place as a CHF for much longer. Might be saved by the lack of an alternative (Lynch too young, Allen LTI).

gilbert?

no-one wants to drop good players like the three i mentioned who have been playing their part and doing their job.

however it is a fact of life that others will be ahead of them. that's afl football.

[InkerSaint]

Gwilt, McQualter, and Raph are earning their keep. And Blake. The idea that these guys are passengers is rubbish.

This "lesser lights" stuff is nonsense. Ross' golden rule, win or lose, is effort.

i'll bet you both will walk back in when fit.

"When fit" will conveniently turn out to be when spots are available through injury or suspension.

How about this: I'll bet you that no-one will be "dropped" for lack of form.

[bigcarl]

Gwilt, McQualter, and Raph are earning their keep. And Blake. The idea that these guys are passengers is rubbish.

This "lesser lights" stuff is nonsense. Ross' golden rule, win or lose, is effort.

i'll bet you both will walk back in when fit.

"When fit" will conveniently turn out to be when spots are available through injury or suspension.

How about this: I'll bet you that no-one will be "dropped" for lack of form.

they will walk back in when fit simply because we cannot afford to have two starting 18 players on the sidelines. it's simple.

[vacuous space]

The only player who has played seniors and not been re-selected at the next available opportunity is Robert Eddy.

You've forgotten McEvoy, who was dropped for King following his first game. He's also likely to be dropped for Gardiner following his second game. I would think that Milne and Gilbert will come back in straight away as well. There isn't a shortage of players I would select behind those two.

[jonesy]

Up until 2-3 weeks ago the backline has been the best it's ever been,and possibly best performing defence in the history of game....then Raph came back,it lost it's mojo,and some of it's certainty.

What's that mean jonesy? It was Raph's first game back last week and he now gets blamed for the 1 or 2 weeks preceeding his return.

Happy to see McEvoy get some more game time. I would like to see him string a couple together and measure himself against Kreuzer the following week, whether that means Gards sits out until after the bye or Kingy misses.

Actually it was his second game back. Coincidence that they have been in our worst two games of the year? Maybe,maybe not. Hope he plays a blinder tommorrow,he's on borrowed time

[saintsRrising]

Gwilt, McQualter, and Raph are earning their keep. And Blake. The idea that these guys are passengers is rubbish.

This "lesser lights" stuff is nonsense. Ross' golden rule, win or lose, is effort.

Not nonsense at all.

RL looks at effort and team contribution yes...but he also looks at quality....


Milne and Gilbert...as well as Gardiner will all be slotted back in a soon as they are available as all have been great contributors this year..all in out top 10. So I expect three changes for the Blues game. Only thing that would stop that would be if Ben absolutely played a blinder...otherwise Gardi will replace him. Unless there are injuries or suspensions I would expect 3 omissions next week. We will want our absoluely best possibleteam for the Blues match.


However RL is also mindful that ALL players need to earn their slots and to be 100% ready for senior foofball. They do not get gicen selections based on past reputation alone. Hence Max had to get match fit and practiced before coming back.

[Solar]

Plugger66 Wrote:

Talking about how they play. Even though Max can play on smalls he gets the ball like a big man and that means his disposal is ordinary at best. Lost a running backman for a stay at home backman. Dont like Blake, Dawson and Max back there. Lose so much run.

This wont be an issue, having Max there releases Fisher to do what he does best, play loose man in defense and rebound all day, also two of Goddard, Gram, Raph and even Dal can play that rebounding defender role with ease, there are plenty of options available to us

Dont get too carried away about how the team is listed
Its never going to be the way we line up or play over the 4 Q's
And for those that are worried about run out of the back half , go back and look at the replay of last week ....and have a look at the guy they hand-balled it off to heaps of times and off he went
...... No 22 ....one F Ray!! ripper of a game doing just that , weaving his way out of a congested back half and delivering beautifully upfield
And he will be set to do it again
Don't worry we have heaps of options and run out of the back half aint a prob
have faith , sit back and enjoy the ride!!
And oh I forgot to mention
Great 22! and I hope there's a big element of precaution in the Milne & Gilbo omissions!

Of course the team will not line up as it is in print but it will probably still have Max, Blake and Dawson in the back 6. This will mean less run even if other runners come into the back 6 as Max, a non runner is replacing a dashing medium/bigman and I think that is a bit of an issue especially since North have gone much smaller this week.

Your point is valid P66 but this is where I struggle with Blake.
He should be a rebounder, he is a good size, not slow of foot and has reasonable agility, but I fear you are right, having 3 of Blake, Dawson & Max in the back six is too negative.
I think Blake either needs to be able to take a key forward or doesn't have a role in the team. Its out of him and Zac for mine, and I think Zac is a better bet for the key forwards than Blake.

A back 6 of

Baker Dawson Hudghton
Gram S Fisher Gilbert

gives enough run, is very versatile and can defend one on one adequately, seems better balanced than it would be swapping Blake for Dawson IMO.

A good problem to have.

hence my question about blake during the week, he is a the nothing man right now and this team shows that up. I would bring gilbo in for blake when gilbert is fit

[InkerSaint]

The only player who has played seniors and not been re-selected at the next available opportunity is Robert Eddy.

You've forgotten McEvoy, who was dropped for King following his first game. He's also likely to be dropped for Gardiner following his second game. I would think that Milne and Gilbert will come back in straight away as well. There isn't a shortage of players I would select behind those two.

No I haven't forgotten McEvoy - I qualified him as a "backup" ruckman. And in the same line of thinking I would call Eddy a "backup" player. He got selected courtesy of Koschitzke - and then King, which shows they were experimenting with structure. The conclusion seems to have been they preferred two dedicated rucks because he then lost his spot to McEvoy who then made way for King again.

Gardi will come straight back in for Ben I have no doubt.

Some of you are suggesting the Raphs, Gwilts etc. are due to be dropped. Which suggests that either they are getting an easy ride, or there isn't the depth to push them out. Rubbish on both counts.

There are now 24 bona fide starting players. That's a fact.

I'm sure they will hunt for the slightest opportunity to "rest" players. But they won't go out on ability, I doubt that any will go out on form - it's 10 rounds in, and everyone knows they have to "tick the boxes" on field and off.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Up until 2-3 weeks ago the backline has been the best it's ever been,and possibly best performing defence in the history of game....then Raph came back,it lost it's mojo,and some of it's certainty.

What's that mean jonesy? It was Raph's first game back last week and he now gets blamed for the 1 or 2 weeks preceeding his return.

Happy to see McEvoy get some more game time. I would like to see him string a couple together and measure himself against Kreuzer the following week, whether that means Gards sits out until after the bye or Kingy misses.

Actually it was his second game back. Coincidence that they have been in our worst two games of the year? Maybe,maybe not. Hope he plays a blinder tommorrow,he's on borrowed time

I'd disagree those 2 games are our 2 worst. Honour for those (tough call!) would go to Sydney and Essendon IMO, and that's not really a criticism of those games... my biggest issue with the last two weeks is the number of opportunities not taken.

But Raph played vs Sydney, so it must all be Raph's fault....

[starsign]

I would call Eddy a "backup" player. He got selected courtesy of Koschitzke - and then King, which shows they were experimenting with structure. The conclusion seems to have been they preferred two dedicated rucks because he then lost his spot to McEvoy who then made way for King again.

I think you will find Eddy came in specifically for team structure that night ( in which horrible very wet conditions were predicted in adelaide) rather than a mere experiment and the selectors were spot on
As they were the following week for a game under the roof at Docklands when they reverted back to the balance of big men, and a smaller player went out

[InkerSaint]

I would call Eddy a "backup" player. He got selected courtesy of Koschitzke - and then King, which shows they were experimenting with structure. The conclusion seems to have been they preferred two dedicated rucks because he then lost his spot to McEvoy who then made way for King again.

I think you will find Eddy came in specifically for team structure that night ( in which horrible very wet conditions were predicted in adelaide) rather than a mere experiment and the selectors were spot on
As they were the following week for a game under the roof at Docklands when they reverted back to the balance of big men, and a smaller player went out

You've missed Eddy's R6 inclusion against the Bulldogs.

[Finna]

It can only be of massive advantage for Max to have a game under his belt before he faces Fevola whom he has dominated for years. I also believe that Gilbert and Milne must be included as soon as fit as both are crucial to our structure. I believe this was more than obvious with Milne last weekend.

[Legendary]

Of course Milne will come straight back in.

The guy kicks 15-20% of our score each week.


Some footballers are just better than others. That's all there is to it.

[plugger66]

If there's one thing I've learned about the Saints' team selection this year it is that they are hellbent on keeping the rotation and total players used to a minimum.

A conservative injury management strategy has allowed Max to break back into the team. McEvoy being a late-season entry will go back to the twos when Gardiner comes back. But Milne and Gilbert might bide their time to return pending other injuries or suspension.

I don't think any of our players are foolish enough not to keep the discipline up. Gram's penalty the other week will have been a reminder to the group.

We have 24 good senior players, and a backup ruckman in Benny. I strongly suspect our depth won't be tested enough to see Goose make a return this year.

Shock! Horror!

There it is.

We havent made many changes that is true but Milne and Sam come straight back in when fit what ever the result is this week.

[Stephen Theodore]

Finna wrote:
I believe this was more than obvious with Milne last weekend.

Yep, I agree. Whilst we have praised Milney and Schniedes all season, Milney is the no.1 crumber, and we really missed his presence last week. There seemed to be a lot of missed opportunities at ground level last week

[saintly_safes]

guys like gwilt, macqualter and raph need to be earning their keep.

Agreed re Gwilt, who IMO is not kicking enough goals to justify his place as a CHF for much longer. Might be saved by the lack of an alternative (Lynch too young, Allen LTI)

McQualts I am happy is doing a decnt role as an ancillary tackling mid who is snagging an av. of a goal a game this year.

Raph - returning from injury. Will come good over the next month IMO.

I dont agree.I have never been a Mcqualter fan but this year he has been more than seviceable in the role he has been given. I dont think Raph is up to it at afl level imo but lets hope they prove us both wrong

[bigcarl]

guys like gwilt, macqualter and raph need to be earning their keep.

Agreed re Gwilt, who IMO is not kicking enough goals to justify his place as a CHF for much longer. Might be saved by the lack of an alternative (Lynch too young, Allen LTI)

McQualts I am happy is doing a decnt role as an ancillary tackling mid who is snagging an av. of a goal a game this year.

Raph - returning from injury. Will come good over the next month IMO.

I dont agree.I have never been a Mcqualter fan but this year he has been more than seviceable in the role he has been given. I dont think Raph is up to it at afl level imo but lets hope they prove us both wrong

well i didn't really want to point the finger at anyone in particular.

the point i'm trying to make is that i'd pick milne and gilbert ahead of many others, including the three i mentioned.

i think those two will play next week if passed fit and - barring injury or suspension - it is a simple fact of life that someone will make way for them if we are to pick our best team.

unfortunately 24 doesn't go into 22 and some players are ahead of others. that's life and a reality of AFL football.

if milne and gilbert are out for more than a few weeks then they might have to come back via sandringham. but i hope not, since the zebras don't play for a while.

fwiw, raph imo is in our best side talent wise and only needs time and a role he can play to cement his spot. not sure he'll ever be a close-checking defender though.