Raph this week/watershed game

[joffaboy]

Do you notice that it is always the same blokes who are yeilding the whip!

yes but for once I think the critisism is fair.

Mainly to do with his tackling pressure. This will have to improve or Lyon will drop him.

Lyon reckons he is into patterns. This means if Raph isn't strong on his defensive tackling side again this week - he will be under the microscope.

As for last weeks game Raph did some very nice things especially in the final quarter.

Seemed a bit rusty and will be better for the run last week.

However with Jason Gram and a host of others breathing down his neck raph will be acutely aware that he needs to stick those crucial defensive tackles.

[joffaboy]

Wrong!
Actually very wrong !
I was watching his kick out carefully from an excellent vantage point Level 2 , and noticed Lenny out on his own for what seemed like ages
I even yelled out come on Raph get it out to him (not that he would have heard but all and sundry about me did!!)
Then by the time he kicked a looping high trajectory kick out to him a Lion got to make spoil very easily

Mabye Raph didn't have the advantage of sitting on L2 and seeing the options as easily.

As Ghost Like says - it is incumbent of the player kicking in to look for better options before kicking to the pocket. The kick may not have been perfect but Lenny was certainly flat footed waiting for the ball.

Easy from the stands. I kick multiple goals and never make a mistake every week from there.

[noob]

haha why would a player thats just came back from the reserves take a kickout?

[evertonfc]

Do you notice that it is always the same blokes who are yeilding the whip!

yes but for once I think the critisism is fair.

Mainly to do with his tackling pressure. This will have to improve or Lyon will drop him.

Lyon reckons he is into patterns. This means if Raph isn't strong on his defensive tackling side again this week - he will be under the microscope.

As for last weeks game Raph did some very nice things especially in the final quarter.

Seemed a bit rusty and will be better for the run last week.

However with Jason Gram and a host of others breathing down his neck raph will be acutely aware that he needs to stick those crucial defensive tackles.

Everyone read this. Joffa wouldn't have a crack at Raph unless it was absolutely warranted.

It's a fair call. I think we all want Raph to succeed, but we all want him to do the things have made us 9-0.

We can't make exceptions for him no matter how much we want him to play well, especially when we have three elite defenders (Max, Maguire & Gram) hovering on the fringes.

Let's hope he can get himself right.

[saint vince]

I was pretty dissaopointed in Raph last night I really don't like him in the backline in one on one "contests".

I highlighted contests as he very rarely make a contest.

Melb only kicked 6 goals and I rekon Raph had a hand in 3 or 4. ( I haven't watched the replaythat is going from memory only).

I think he is the obvious out for Max for next week.

f he is going to find a spot in th side it is not in the backline.

[borderbarry]

I am not sure on your judgement saint vince. Anyway it looks like it will be Gilbert for Hudgton next week.

[plugger66]

I am not sure on your judgement saint vince. Anyway it looks like it will be Gilbert for Hudgton next week.

Why is that. I think Gilbert has had a good year.

[Nattens]

I am not sure on your judgement saint vince. Anyway it looks like it will be Gilbert for Hudgton next week.

Why is that. I think Gilbert has had a good year.

Injury

[plugger66]

I am not sure on your judgement saint vince. Anyway it looks like it will be Gilbert for Hudgton next week.

Why is that. I think Gilbert has had a good year.

Injury

Looked ok to me and said he would be ok.

[Solar]

Do you notice that it is always the same blokes who are yeilding the whip!

yes but for once I think the critisism is fair.

Mainly to do with his tackling pressure. This will have to improve or Lyon will drop him.

Lyon reckons he is into patterns. This means if Raph isn't strong on his defensive tackling side again this week - he will be under the microscope.

As for last weeks game Raph did some very nice things especially in the final quarter.

Seemed a bit rusty and will be better for the run last week.

However with Jason Gram and a host of others breathing down his neck raph will be acutely aware that he needs to stick those crucial defensive tackles.

Everyone read this. Joffa wouldn't have a crack at Raph unless it was absolutely warranted.

It's a fair call. I think we all want Raph to succeed, but we all want him to do the things have made us 9-0.

We can't make exceptions for him no matter how much we want him to play well, especially when we have three elite defenders (Max, Maguire & Gram) hovering on the fringes.

Let's hope he can get himself right.

very good points both of you

question is, can our backline afford to have two loose backman in raph and chips. Also where does blake sit in relation to this. Raph was forced to play a shut down CHB role last night which at the time suprised me as he plays better off his player and being the third player up.

His tackling and pressure is also down. As joffa suggests, lyon will note this and raph will be under the gun. If he could improve this side of his game I could see a role on the wing/half forward as his disposal into 50 is very impressive

[Baldock Rules]

On the basis of what we saw Saturday night I think the concerns are fully justified!!

Has definite talent but the turnovers in the backline means he needs another role or others are ahead of him at this point

No prizes for not recognising weakness when it comes to the crunch

[kaos theory]

I was pretty dissaopointed in Raph last night I really don't like him in the backline in one on one "contests".

I highlighted contests as he very rarely make a contest.

Melb only kicked 6 goals and I rekon Raph had a hand in 3 or 4. ( I haven't watched the replaythat is going from memory only).

I think he is the obvious out for Max for next week.

f he is going to find a spot in th side it is not in the backline.

This is a classic example of "Raph Derangement Syndrome".

Raph was responsible for 1 goal through a turn over. There were other players who were responsible for the other goals.

Problem here is that many posters have this deranged view of everything Raph does.

They amplify the negative about 5 times and forget the positives. Raph has not been playing great so far, he usually takes a few games to get into stride, but has a lot of upside when going....

but not many here are prepared to cut him some slack that other players seem to get.

[bigcarl]

I could see a role on the wing/half forward as his disposal into 50 is very impressive

yes. i've always thought he'd go okay as a tallish mid, too, as he has a bit of ball magnet ability when his confidence is up.

i don't think he'll ever be a close-checking defender, though.

[SainterK]

I'm actually willing to give him another week, realising that getting a couple of games in succession can bring form.

[Milton66]

Yep, me too. One thing about Ross is that he'll give players a few weeks instead of 1 week in - 1 week out syndrome.

We still have 12 games to go before finals to get the balance right.

It's almost like some supporters are willing certain players to play poorly in order to validate their views.

Encouragement is needed, not constant carping ffs. Let the kid get on with ti, and let the coaching staff decide if he plays.

[spert]

It's clear to me that Raph has talent, but is not much good under pressure. I expect Max will return in place of Raph.

[Ghost Like]

I was pretty dissaopointed in Raph last night I really don't like him in the backline in one on one "contests".

I highlighted contests as he very rarely make a contest.

Melb only kicked 6 goals and I rekon Raph had a hand in 3 or 4. ( I haven't watched the replaythat is going from memory only).

I think he is the obvious out for Max for next week.

f he is going to find a spot in th side it is not in the backline.

This is a classic example of "Raph Derangement Syndrome".

Raph was responsible for 1 goal through a turn over. There were other players who were responsible for the other goals.

Problem here is that many posters have this deranged view of everything Raph does.

They amplify the negative about 5 times and forget the positives. Raph has not been playing great so far, he usually takes a few games to get into stride, but has a lot of upside when going....

but not many here are prepared to cut him some slack that other players seem to get.

Spot on kaos theory.

Some perspective...regardless of what we want to believe...

Melbourne goals:

1 Gilbert dropped mark (Sylvia on Gilbert)

2 Geary kicking turnover (Bruce on ???)

3 Dal Santo handball turnover (Frawley ran off Riewoldt)

4 Jones kicking turnover (Maric outpointed Baker)

5 Clarke fumble (Bate on Dawson)

6 Ball tackled (Green on ???)

Players make mistakes under pressure, after a good look at the replay, Raph was not Robinson Crusoe. Melbourne worked hard at that pressure in the 1st half and there will be quite a few Saints players who would not be happy with some of their decisions and efforts. Besides the fumble that cost the goal and being outmarked once in the first half, Raph did not do too badly. Raph was not the worst.

Personally I thought our whole defence and midfield did not pay their Melbourne opponents enough respect in the first half and our decision making bringing the ball into our flooded forward line was woeful, as was our kicking at goal (again).

[saint vince]

I was pretty dissaopointed in Raph last night I really don't like him in the backline in one on one "contests".

I highlighted contests as he very rarely make a contest.

Melb only kicked 6 goals and I rekon Raph had a hand in 3 or 4. ( I haven't watched the replaythat is going from memory only).

I think he is the obvious out for Max for next week.

f he is going to find a spot in th side it is not in the backline.

This is a classic example of "Raph Derangement Syndrome".

Raph was responsible for 1 goal through a turn over. There were other players who were responsible for the other goals.

Problem here is that many posters have this deranged view of everything Raph does.

They amplify the negative about 5 times and forget the positives. Raph has not been playing great so far, he usually takes a few games to get into stride, but has a lot of upside when going....

but not many here are prepared to cut him some slack that other players seem to get.

Spot on kaos theory.

Some perspective...regardless of what we want to believe...

Melbourne goals:

1 Gilbert dropped mark (Sylvia on Gilbert)

2 Geary kicking turnover (Bruce on ???)

3 Dal Santo handball turnover (Frawley ran off Riewoldt)

4 Jones kicking turnover (Maric outpointed Baker)

5 Clarke fumble (Bate on Dawson)

6 Ball tackled (Green on ???)

Players make mistakes under pressure, after a good look at the replay, Raph was not Robinson Crusoe. Melbourne worked hard at that pressure in the 1st half and there will be quite a few Saints players who would not be happy with some of their decisions and efforts. Besides the fumble that cost the goal and being outmarked once in the first half, Raph did not do too badly. Raph was not the worst.

Personally I thought our whole defence and midfield did not pay their Melbourne opponents enough respect in the first half and our decision making bringing the ball into our flooded forward line was woeful, as was our kicking at goal (again).

Before potting me show one other post I have made about Raph. I think he has a heap of talent. Unfourtunately I don't think he has done enough to hold his spot over Max. On Saturday he played a key back position. IMO max could have done better in that role. If Raph is to make it I believe it has to be forward of the ball.

He does not put enough presure on in marking contests imo and therefore he hurts our defensive pressure by not beng able to bring the ball to the ground.

I am not about potting any players I just watch the game and call it as I see it. I don't have any favourites or any I hate. I just want our betpossible 22 and atm I don't think Raph is there.

[Ghost Like]

I didn't pot you saint vince, I did point out that Raph did not have a hand in 3 or 4 of their 6 goals so I don't have to go back through your other posts.

I just don't agree with you on this thread.

[saint vince]

I didn't pot you saint vince, I did point out that Raph did not have a hand in 3 or 4 of their 6 goals so I don't have to go back through your other posts.

I just don't agree with you on this thread.

I think when you agreed that i suffered Raph Derangement Syndrome was havinga go at me. I was just offering an opinion and not continually bashin Raph.

What dissapoints me most about Raph is that he can turn it on and play so well. Unfourtunately he has not shown that so far this year and I tink that the consistency of Max is needed.

[Ghost Like]

I didn't pot you saint vince, I did point out that Raph did not have a hand in 3 or 4 of their 6 goals so I don't have to go back through your other posts.

I just don't agree with you on this thread.

I think when you agreed that i suffered Raph Derangement Syndrome was havinga go at me. I was just offering an opinion and not continually bashin Raph.

What dissapoints me most about Raph is that he can turn it on and play so well. Unfourtunately he has not shown that so far this year and I tink that the consistency of Max is needed.

I'm not sure what the real medical term is for 'Raph bashing', perhaps you were just showing an early sympton. Much like a sneeze or cough doesn't necessarily mean "Swine Flu"

I do believe we will be stronger with Max in the side but the consistency he's shown this year relates to turning a 3 or 5 week injury into something longer and just needs to prove there's no niggles.

Max will be handy this week as there will be some tall timber as well as quick leading forward to contend with. Not sure Raph will be the one to make way, I hope not but I'm sure Ross Lyon will pick the appropriate defensive structure to counter them.

[JohnE]

Spot on Vince, what is this charity minded thinking that some supporters have? "Oh, he needs a few games to get firing..." WTF you're in the top team so you should have been busting a gut at Sandy to get there. There are other players who are chomping at the bit AND don't need "a few games" to start playing....geez! Bye Raph...

[jonesy]

The biggest cheer of the night came from the Qld crowd when Raph was dragged after that disgraceful 2nd quarter of his.
Funny thing is,we played Melbourne and he was shown up by the bottom side,whats Stevie J and co going to do if he's still in the team??

Emergency back up depth defender at best. Can't win a premiership with him in the side,time to face the facts

[skeptic]

Raph actually had quite an unusual game for him. He was bad at the things he's normally good at and vice versa.

He had a terrible first half. His decision making and disposal were okay but he was ocmprehensively beaten in the air on several occassions which is quite uncharacteristic for him.
He's an excellent mark and spoiler.

The other strength to his game is that he's usually very clean with his ball handling. Picks the ball up well, usually disposes of it cleanly. We all saw the incident in the second quarter.

In the 2nd half, he was SUPERB. He set up our first two goals, one with a bullet pass to Roo and the other a desperate lunge forward on the ground to get a finger tip to the ball around demon players.

He chased hard, disposal and decsion making were excellent

He's at an interesting spot right now.

I think because of his previous injury concerns, the coaching department knows better than to try and use him as an impact/explosive player. IMO that's why he seems to always go at about 80% tops

He looked good on a HFF. Certainly worked harder and was more effective than Gram.

Keeps his spot IMO

[PJ]

Raph actually had quite an unusual game for him. He was bad at the things he's normally good at and vice versa.

He had a terrible first half. His decision making and disposal were okay but he was ocmprehensively beaten in the air on several occassions which is quite uncharacteristic for him.
He's an excellent mark and spoiler.

The other strength to his game is that he's usually very clean with his ball handling. Picks the ball up well, usually disposes of it cleanly. We all saw the incident in the second quarter.

In the 2nd half, he was SUPERB. He set up our first two goals, one with a bullet pass to Roo and the other a desperate lunge forward on the ground to get a finger tip to the ball around demon players.

He chased hard, disposal and decsion making were excellent

He's at an interesting spot right now.

I think because of his previous injury concerns, the coaching department knows better than to try and use him as an impact/explosive player. IMO that's why he seems to always go at about 80% tops

He looked good on a HFF. Certainly worked harder and was more effective than Gram.

Keeps his spot IMO

Completely agree with this, that's how I saw his game. It's not the errors that matter he'll get better - it's how he responded, lifted his game 200% IMO