The streak: 2004 vs 2009

[battye]

What are the differences between the two teams, being in exactly the same position ladder-wise?

In 2004 we were a very exciting team to watch with a more-or-less all out attacking game plan. We have also have been exciting this year but in the last few weeks that has dropped off a bit, I think in 2004 we would have been relentless and hammered Melbourne by 100 points. It's well publicised that we are more structured now, our defense is stronger and we have a Plan B in place.

In terms of personnel which team would win head-to-head? In 04 we had Harvey, Hamill, Thompson, Penny, Aussie Jones, Peckett, etc... now we've got Fisher coming into his peak, Gilbert, Dawson, Ray and all of our big stars (Riewoldt, Kosi, Hayes, etc) all 5 years more experienced. Tough call.

[James]

2004 Saints however wouldn't have flattened Port or Collingwood in the uber-defensive way we did.

[suss]

Our 2004 team would have smashed our 2009 in round 10...but our 2009 team would choke the life out of our 2004 team in the prelim...

[JEANLUCPICARD]

The 2009 teams flood would kill Gherig/Riewoldt from the 2004 team. I can't see the 04 team being effective against the 09 lockdown.

[James]

Dawson on Gehrig from 2004? Even with his emergence as a quality backman, no. He would get absolutely slaughtered.

Interesting to see if there's any difference between 2004 Hayes and 2009 Hayes.

[Eastern]

Interesting to see if there's any difference between 2004 Hayes and 2009 Hayes.

The 2009 model would be better. Like a good wine, he gets better with age !!

[Legendary]

Our 2004 team would have smashed our 2009 in round 10...but our 2009 team would choke the life out of our 2004 team in the prelim...

Spot on.

Best way to see the difference between the sides is that statement ^^

[plugger66]

Our 2004 team would have smashed our 2009 in round 10...but our 2009 team would choke the life out of our 2004 team in the prelim...

Spot on.

Best way to see the difference between the sides is that statement ^^

Who cares about comparing but to say that will happen is just stupid.Lets hope it does but if there was a thread after round 10 2004 we would have been saying we may never lose game again. We are a great side but Geelong are unbeleivable. We need to keep improving to e
beat them.

[bigcarl]

We are a great side but Geelong are unbeleivable. We need to keep improving to e
beat them.

agree. we need to weed out any weaknesses in our game.

forward efficiency is a concern as always.

[Milton66]

We are far more even across the 22 in 2009. I'm more confident this year than I was in 04.

Players are well drilled and play to strategy, not just "back themselves in".

Main difference this year is that when challenged, we adjust and overcome.

Any other comparison is irrelevant IMO.

[plugger66]

We are far more even across the 22 in 2009. I'm more confident this year than I was in 04.

Players are well drilled and play to strategy, not just "back themselves in".

Main difference this year is that when challenged, we adjust and overcome.

Any other comparison is irrelevant IMO.

Be honest. How did you feel after round 10 2004 after we beat Carlton by over 100 points. All I amsaying is there is along way to go and we need to be at our best after round 22.

[Milton66]

We are far more even across the 22 in 2009. I'm more confident this year than I was in 04.

Players are well drilled and play to strategy, not just "back themselves in".

Main difference this year is that when challenged, we adjust and overcome.

Any other comparison is irrelevant IMO.

Be honest. How did you feel after round 10 2004 after we beat Carlton by over 100 points. All I amsaying is there is along way to go and we need to be at our best after round 22.

Don't get me wrong, I was thrilled. But 2004 is all hidnsight. Having seen what happened, and how Sydney undid us, I'm still more confident that we can't be undone as easily as were in 04. Is till haven't fogotten the 80 point pounding we got the from Lions in the first final.

What happens in 09 remains to be seen.

[suss]

Who cares about comparing but to say that will happen is just stupid.Lets hope it does but if there was a thread after round 10 2004 we would have been saying we may never lose game again. We are a great side but Geelong are unbeleivable. We need to keep improving to e
beat them.

What the hell are you talking about? We were comparing the 2004 Saints side to the 2009 Saints side - and you took it literally.

Has a time machine been invented that I'm not aware of?

[plugger66]

Who cares about comparing but to say that will happen is just stupid.Lets hope it does but if there was a thread after round 10 2004 we would have been saying we may never lose game again. We are a great side but Geelong are unbeleivable. We need to keep improving to e
beat them.

What the hell are you talking about? We were comparing the 2004 Saints side to the 2009 Saints side - and you took it literally.

Has a time machine been invented that I'm not aware of?

Completely fail to understand what you are on about.

[3rd generation saint]

In all honesty, the next 12 rounds will determine the difference between the teams.
In 04 we won 6 and lost 6 for the rest of the season, if we win next week we break the clubs win streak record and continue to break it every time we win after that.
If we win more than 16 games for the season this side becomes winningest (don't know if that is a word) St.Kilda side of all time.
Then if we win 3 finals from there, they equal the 1966 side and we are all delirious.
But if we only make the prelim again, we are no better than the 04 side.

[plugger66]

In all honesty, the next 12 rounds will determine the difference between the teams.
In 04 we won 6 and lost 6 for the rest of the season, if we win next week we break the clubs win streak record and continue to break it every time we win after that.
If we win more than 16 games for the season this side becomes winningest (don't know if that is a word) St.Kilda side of all time.
Then if we win 3 finals from there, they equal the 1966 side and we are all delirious.
But if we only make the prelim again, we are no better than the 04 side.

Even if we win 22 and lose in tghe prelim we are no better than 2004. Lets hope we are 2 finals wins better.

[joffaboy]

Interesting convo on SEN this morning between Wayne Schwash (sic) and Robet Shaw.

they both agreed that the last three games had been invaluable to the Saints and better for them than smashing teams by 20 goals.

Their reasoning was that the pressure on them would be much more beneficial and will make them a better team in the long run.

In 2004 we won R9 and R10 by over 100 points. This year R8-R10 has been a bit of a slog.

Who knows what the future will bring. we went 6-6 in 2004 and then loat 2 finals including the PF.

As plugger66 says if we lose a PF we are no better than 2004 or 05 or last year for that matter.

[hotdish]

Main differences:

- Less suspensions (ha ha ha - Powell/Guerra)
- More depth (Maguire/Hudghton/Dempster/Eddy/L Fisher etc)
- Better game plan (more defensive/pressure, and plan A & B, not just all out attack)
- Better ruck setup (King/Gardiner v Knobel/Kossi/Blake)
- Faster team
- Less injuries (touch wood!)
- Winning interstate consistently (

COMPARISON BETWEEN THE 2 TEAMS AFTER R10

..........Points for......Points ag.....Av. win....Players used
2004...126.3...........76.3............50...........29
2009...105.7...........57.6............48.1........25

Stats from
http://afl.allthestats.com/teams/teamse ... &yrfm=2004
http://afl.allthestats.com/teams/teamse ... &yrfm=2009

[SainterX]

All I can say is good luck to whoever would have gotten the job on Harvs

[evertonfc]

Our 2004 team would have smashed our 2009 in round 10...but our 2009 team would choke the life out of our 2004 team in the prelim...

Spot on.

Best way to see the difference between the sides is that statement ^^

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

[Thinline]

We are far more even across the 22 in 2009. I'm more confident this year than I was in 04.

Players are well drilled and play to strategy, not just "back themselves in".

Main difference this year is that when challenged, we adjust and overcome.

Any other comparison is irrelevant IMO.

Be honest. How did you feel after round 10 2004 after we beat Carlton by over 100 points. All I amsaying is there is along way to go and we need to be at our best after round 22.

It was like swatting a one-winged fly. Carlton were terrible in 04.

[suss]

Completely fail to understand what you are on about.

Let me break it down for you:

- We were comparing the 2004 St Kilda side to the 2009 St Kilda side.
- This is clearly an exercise in fantasy.
- You responded with this:

Who cares about comparing but to say that will happen is just stupid.Lets hope it does but if there was a thread after round 10 2004 we would have been saying we may never lose game again. We are a great side but Geelong are unbeleivable. We need to keep improving to e
beat them.

Firstly, this "paragraph" makes little or no sense whatsoever. From the words "but to say that will happen", I can only assume you think there actually is a chance that the 2004 St Kilda team will play some part in the finals this year.

You then comment about there being similar threads in 2004. Well how, in 2004, could we compare team of 2004 with the team of 2009?

Maybe you’re talking about something completely different – like our ability to beat Geelong - but it’s incredibly hard to know because, as usual, there is no structure to your sentences and no punctuation. It's almost a random collection of words thrown together with the hope that they make sense.

Why don't you read the first post and get a grip on the actual conversation taking place before you butt in with your usual argumentative crap?

[ThePunter]

One of the interesting comparisons is the changes to the line-up.

In 2009, St Kilda have essentially used the same 22 players for the 10 matches, with some help from Raphael Clarke (three games), Robert Eddy (two games), and Ben McEvoy (one game). Those six games have been used to replace Lenny Hayes, Justin Koschitzke, Jason Gram & Stephen Milne once and Steven King twice. Seventeen players (Baker, Montagna, Riewoldt, Schneider, Ball, Gardiner, Goddard, Gilbert, Ray, S Fisher, Dal Santo, Blake, McQualter, Gwilt, C Jones, Geary & Dawson) have played every game.

In 2004, only ten players played in all ten games of the streak. They were Ball, Dal Santo, Gehrig, Goddard, A Jones, Knobel, Maguire, Milbe, Powell, Riewoldt & Thompson. In total, St Kilda used 29 players through the 2004 streak, with three players (S Fisher, Montagna & Moyle) only playing one game. Other players used were Hudghton (5 games), Baker (6), Black (7), Blake (6), X Clarke (8), Hamill (8), Harvey (9), Hayes (8), Koschitzke (9), Peckett (5), Penny (9), Voss (7), Schwarze (8), Guerra (7) and L Fisher (5).

It is interesting to see Ball, Goddard, Dal Santo & Riewoldt have played in all ten wins both times.

In 2009, St Kilda have only made a maximum of one change to the side that played the previous week.

Round 1 - N/A
Round 2 - 1 change
Round 3 - No change
Round 4 - No change
Round 5 - 1 change
Round 6 - 1 change
Round 7 - 1 change
Round 8 - 1 change
Round 9 - 1 change
Round 10 - 1 change

The side was a lot more fluid in 2004.

Round 1 - N/A
Round 2 - no change
Round 3 - 1 change
Round 4 - 3 changes
Round 5 - 3 changes
Round 6 - 2 changes
Round 7 - 2 changes
Round 8 - 3 changes
Round 9 - 1 change
Round 10 - 1 change

The foundation is a lot more solid this time around.

[barks4eva]

The main difference is that we now have a real coach and not a mini bus!

[marksnsparks]

I wonder whether we're only more confident this time because we know what happened after round 10 last time??