Raph this week/watershed game

saint patrick · Thu 28 May 2009 11:32pm

To be brutally honest will need to eliminate his tendancy to turn the ball over to the oppostion far too easily..

Has some very good offence skills but until his defensive side improves he will feel the heat seriously from the significant pack forming in the twos...

The bottom line from here must be that anyone who turns the Ball over badly has to be eliminated to have a chance to realise the dream by overcoming the Geelongs/Hawthorns ect .....

It's just that simple.

Confident that Lyon will have the the same ruthless approach to this...

mbogo · Post: # 747476Post **mbogo** » Fri 29 May 2009 12:26am

Seriously good point St Pat - who can ever remember when missing an opportunity or two could cost you a spot in our team?
Must be on-track ......

Solar · Post: # 747565Post **Solar** » Fri 29 May 2009 11:11am

how many turn overs did raph have last week? I spotted one

SaintDebi · Post: # 747570Post **SaintDebi** » Fri 29 May 2009 11:16am

Solar wrote:how many turn overs did raph have last week? I spotted one

Seriously?
I'm not disputing that number, I didn't count. But my perception was that there would have been more than that, and that his overall game was not a good one.

saint vince · Fri 29 May 2009 11:19am

Solar wrote:how many turn overs did raph have last week? I spotted one

Agree not sure turning the ball over was his biggest problem. The 5 half hearted tackles that he did that was more of a problem.

bigcarl · Post: # 747581Post **bigcarl** » Fri 29 May 2009 11:28am

saint vince wrote:The 5 half hearted tackles that he did that was more of a problem.

he needs to learn to make those tackles stick, even though that's not his natural game.

he's skilled and talented offensively and should play to his strengths, but, at the same time, work on his weaknesses.

Sobraz · Post: # 747589Post **Sobraz** » Fri 29 May 2009 11:34am

Solar wrote:how many turn overs did raph have last week? I spotted one

exactly....1, from a kick out... he shouldnt have been kicking out in the first place...

Raph was ok last week... Far better than what he has been bagged for on here..

I think it must be that most people dont like his long stride, lopeing style, and his laconic demeanour, cos he really doesnt stuff up much at all... I just dont get it....

Solar · Post: # 747591Post **Solar** » Fri 29 May 2009 11:36am

saint vince wrote:
Solar wrote:how many turn overs did raph have last week? I spotted one
Agree not sure turning the ball over was his biggest problem. The 5 half hearted tackles that he did that was more of a problem.

don't disagree with that, as carl says he needs to stick those tackles and hopefully it was just down to him getting used to the faster speed of AFL again. Thought our tackling in the last two weeks across the board has been down.

But I thought apart from the kick out to a flat footed lenny raph's game was a good solid game.

But hell I have been in the crowd where gwilt has turned it over and people still yell "bloody raph" before being informed that raph is not playing

borderbarry · Fri 29 May 2009 11:42am

One turn-over and everyone wants his scalp. How many does Jonesy average a game? And Luke Ball. Fair dinkum.

PJ · Post: # 747615Post PJ » Fri 29 May 2009 12:29pm

he will feel the heat seriously from the significant pack forming in the twos...

Not sure the pack putting the heat on from below have his particular skills - certainly not Max, Mat or Big mac. Gram would not have been a better option in terms of defensive pressure and turn overs.

GrumpyOne · Post: # 747619Post **GrumpyOne** » Fri 29 May 2009 12:40pm

bigcarl wrote:
saint vince wrote:The 5 half hearted tackles that he did that was more of a problem.
he needs to learn to make those tackles stick, even though that's not his natural game.

he's skilled and talented offensively and should play to his strengths, but, at the same time, work on his weaknesses.

Agree with all the above, but still reckon he is playing in the wrong position. He reminds me of a young O'Laughlin, but would find it next to impossible to fit in to our attack.

older saint · Fri 29 May 2009 5:19pm

I thought he had moved onfrom the official position of "kicking dog " of supporters after last years finals. Not for some

First game back from injury and was servicable except for 1 bad kick out from full back which Hayes stood still for.
Must have missed the post v Coll when Goddard 1st kick out from full back went directly to Coll player ?

Get serious.

Hawkesbury Saint · Fri 29 May 2009 5:26pm

Just goes to show that being older can mean being wiser.

Spot on oldersaint!

MC Gusto · Post: # 747821Post **MC Gusto** » Fri 29 May 2009 5:49pm

raph will have a day out this week and cement his spot for the season <baring injury>

bigcarl · Post: # 747834Post **bigcarl** » Fri 29 May 2009 5:55pm

GrumpyOne wrote:Agree with all the above, but still reckon he is playing in the wrong position. He reminds me of a young O'Laughlin, but would find it next to impossible to fit in to our attack.

gwilt would want to be getting a kick.

saintly_safes · Fri 29 May 2009 10:30pm

Imo Raph thinks he alot better than he actually is. Doesnt work hard enough when he hasnt got the ball & when he does have it doesnt know what to do with it. Way too casual in his approach to what is going to be a make or break year for him.He has talent to burn but he just hasnt got the dedication to get to the next level & is so injury prone & I think thats related to his apathy at this level. Another high draft pick living on reputation but little substance

jackal · Post: # 747990Post **jackal** » Fri 29 May 2009 10:59pm

saintly_safes wrote:Imo Raph thinks he alot better than he actually is. Doesnt work hard enough when he hasnt got the ball & when he does have it doesnt know what to do with it. Way too casual in his approach to what is going to be a make or break year for him.He has talent to burn but he just hasnt got the dedication to get to the next level & is so injury prone & I think thats related to his apathy at this level. Another high draft pick living on reputation but little substance

Wrong

saintly_safes · Fri 29 May 2009 11:16pm

jackal wrote:
saintly_safes wrote:Imo Raph thinks he alot better than he actually is. Doesnt work hard enough when he hasnt got the ball & when he does have it doesnt know what to do with it. Way too casual in his approach to what is going to be a make or break year for him.He has talent to burn but he just hasnt got the dedication to get to the next level & is so injury prone & I think thats related to his apathy at this level. Another high draft pick living on reputation but little substance
Wrong

This is imo & Im not looking for a drawn out tit for tat exchange that tends to happen on this site but would like you give your oppinion of why im wrong.As i said this is imo, Im not gunna hunt you down & kill you because you dont agree with me.Hell this is what this site is all about isnt it

Bernard Shakey · Fri 29 May 2009 11:30pm

Most of you must have been at a different game to the one i was at last Sunday.

Raph had a good game coming back into the seniors after injury. He will be even better this week.
If he was as bad as you whingers think he would have been dropped this week.

Raph, Gwilt and Blake according to you lot should not have played a game this year. We are 9 zip, something must be going right. I trust the coach, not a bunch of nobodies.

Spinner · Post: # 748020Post **Spinner** » Fri 29 May 2009 11:56pm

saint patrick wrote:To be brutally honest will need to eliminate his tendancy to turn the ball over to the oppostion far too easily..

Has some very good offence skills but until his defensive side improves he will feel the heat seriously from the significant pack forming in the twos...

The bottom line from here must be that anyone who turns the Ball over badly has to be eliminated to have a chance to realise the dream by overcoming the Geelongs/Hawthorns ect .....

It's just that simple.

Confident that Lyon will have the the same ruthless approach to this...

After playing in the seconds for a few weeks it will definitely take a few to get his touch back.

Hopefully by then we will see improvement.

saintly_safes · Sat 30 May 2009 12:01am

Bernard Shakey wrote:Most of you must have been at a different game to the one i was at last Sunday.

Raph had a good game coming back into the seniors after injury. He will be even better this week.
If he was as bad as you whingers think he would have been dropped this week.

Raph, Gwilt and Blake according to you lot should not have played a game this year. We are 9 zip, something must be going right. I trust the coach, not a bunch of nobodies.

Bernard we meet again in battle , its been a while & I have missed it , I must say.I think the last one was the Kosi argument . I realise Raph was coming back from a long lay off & from my sources he was lucky to get a gig above alot of others that had better form & better work ethic. He got his chance & imo didnt do enough to win me over but everyone to their own.I hope he proves me wrong . "Go Sainters"

dsreg1 · Post: # 748076Post **dsreg1** » Sat 30 May 2009 9:12am

jackal wrote:
saintly_safes wrote:Imo Raph thinks he alot better than he actually is. Doesnt work hard enough when he hasnt got the ball & when he does have it doesnt know what to do with it. Way too casual in his approach to what is going to be a make or break year for him.He has talent to burn but he just hasnt got the dedication to get to the next level & is so injury prone & I think thats related to his apathy at this level. Another high draft pick living on reputation but little substance
Wrong

Agreed. The only confidence Raph suffers from is lack thereof....

starsign · Post: # 748094Post **starsign** » Sat 30 May 2009 10:41am

But I thought apart from the kick out to a flat footed lenny raph's game was a good solid game.

Wrong!
Actually very wrong !
I was watching his kick out carefully from an excellent vantage point Level 2 , and noticed Lenny out on his own for what seemed like ages
I even yelled out come on Raph get it out to him (not that he would have heard but all and sundry about me did!!)
Then by the time he kicked a looping high trajectory kick out to him a Lion got to make spoil very easily
A good 10 seconds lapsed even between me calling out
A few people around me said , you were spot on there mate, that was pathetic!

Perhaps he thought he still had to wait for the goalie to wave the flag!!
But he just wasn't switched on for mine!

As for turnovers Geary had at least 4 costly shockers through delivery , don't know how many tackles he laid , but would have had to be up there with the best to balance his ledger on the day IMHO

Ghost Like · Sat 30 May 2009 11:50am

I actually think the comment that Raph kicked to a flat footed Lenny was spot on. The posters never praised the kick but identified that Lenny being flat footed was a key component to the turnover.

It's incumbent on the person kicking in to try to identify an option further afield before taking the bail out option to the pocket. Sure Raph did not make that decision as quick as we'd like but first game back from a lay off coupled with credit to Brisbane's zoning magnified the error.

I don't think that one kick warrants calls that Raph's career or place is on the line especially after an excellent finish to 08 and a very good start to 09 prior to injury.

As for the tackles, it would have been great to see him stick those "5 tackles" but he wasn't Robinson Crusoe, we were down on our average of 70+ tackles for the season and my maths suggest those "5" would not have made the difference, meaning there were plenty of others who were down with their output and failing to do the appropriate work to apply pressure.

Unfortunately the days of Raph being a whipping boy are still not over.

borderbarry · Sat 30 May 2009 12:36pm

Do you notice that it is always the same blokes who are yeilding the whip!

Raph this week/watershed game

Raph this week/watershed game

Re: Raph this week/watershed game