Max in for Bakes

[fugazi]

Reckon we need to freshen the intensity a bit, and Max could come in for Bakes who is struggling a bit. Free up Fisher, or Max can also play on the oposition small if necessary.

Gram back for Gwilt, as others have mentioned, his intensity is down and needs a run in the two's.

Happy with Geary and Ray who maintain the standard of previous rounds.

See how Raph goes for a couple of games - but should never be allowed to kick-out from goals again!

Thoughts?

[degruch]

Is Max necessary against Melbourne? Not exactly a tall forward line, slow moving to takle for a stopper like Max...I would have thought Bakes would have been suitable.

Yeah, sure he had a dog yesterday, and got stitched up by the umpires with two of the standout stupid decisions of the year, but he wasn't the only one down a bit. Bakes always has a dip, I say leave him.

For once, I think somone might be right about Gwilt, but only if substituted for Gram...I wouldn't pull him out for Goose, Armo, Rex Hunt or any other silly suggestion that's been put forward in recent times.

[bigcarl]

See how Raph goes for a couple of games - but should never be allowed to kick-out from goals again!

as clangers go it was an absolute howler, but apart from that i thought he had some nice touches and is a starting 18 player.

he reads the play extremely well and has a bit of ball-magnet ability, so i'd like to see him used as a mid (or half forward) rather than a defender.

[saintsRrising]

RL said in todays paper that he would like Max in before the bye.

On Goose he was not as certain.

[Bernard Shakey]

See how Raph goes for a couple of games - but should never be allowed to kick-out from goals again!

as clangers go it was an absolute howler, but apart from that i thought he had some nice touches and is a starting 18 player.

he reads the play extremely well and has a bit of ball-magnet ability, so i'd like to see him used as a mid (or half forward) rather than a defender.

Not all Raph's fault. If Lenny had gone at the ball rather than waiting for it there would have been no clanger.

[Milton66]

See how Raph goes for a couple of games - but should never be allowed to kick-out from goals again!

as clangers go it was an absolute howler, but apart from that i thought he had some nice touches and is a starting 18 player.

he reads the play extremely well and has a bit of ball-magnet ability, so i'd like to see him used as a mid (or half forward) rather than a defender.

Not all Raph's fault. If Lenny had gone at the ball rather than waiting for it there would have been no clanger.

How dare you let facts get in the way of player bagging

[bergholt]

See how Raph goes for a couple of games - but should never be allowed to kick-out from goals again!

it wasn't a great kick, but in fairness, goddard is an excellent kick and we've all seen him turn it over from fullback multiple times, and dal santo as well. it's not an easy job when a team is disciplined in their manning up.

[joffaboy]

Interestingly Raph had one critical error for the day while Geary had four.

Where is the howling at the moon and gnashing of teeth about Geary and his 400% more critical errors compared to Raph?

Really it is so easy to critisise in isolation.

Only one Saints play had zero critical errors.

BTW I thought Geary was terrific yesterday and his good far outweighed his bad.

[desertsaint]

Jeez, raph's getting bagged already - he's just stepped up from vfl and was always going to need a game or two to get up to level.

Re Maxy - i'd like to bring him in against melbourne - no games a certainty but given melbourne's lack of a decent forward it's a good way to ease him in. A fair point about the small forwards however.
Re goose - i wouldn't put both in for the same game - hope i see both in, fit and firing come finals. And still not sure where to put him at the mo.

[older saint]

I would think perhaps there could be a couple changes this week.

Max perhaps for Blake. Look to free Fisher up across half back, Dawson on Robbo and Max on Miller or Vice versa.

Also would consider McEvoy for King. King has not been that good last 2 weeks (Gardi very good) and perhaps a full gamein magoos wouldn't hurt.

Gram a tough one as no obvious out.
Gwilt was poor yesterday but who else canplay 3rd marking forwadr who tackles? Gilbert?

[plugger66]

I would say the only certain starter next week is Gram. I still dont see how Zac and Max can work together but I could be wrong. It is either Raph or Jimmy out.

[bigcarl]

I would say the only certain starter next week is Gram. I still dont see how Zac and Max can work together but I could be wrong. It is either Raph or Jimmy out.

others might see it differently, but i reckon both gram and raph are in our best side. will again be an interesting night at the selection table.

i wouldn't think that raph and jimmy are the only ones vulnerable.

[fugazi]

Raph was OK yesterday, but I don't like his kicking out...yesterday was one of several such howlers from kikick-outs. The floaty chip kick that he seems to favour just gives too much opportunity for a closing opponent to intercept.
He was great at the end of last year , and as I said : give him a couple more games to fit back in.

[aussierules0k]

[MasonCJ2]

We clearly need to work most of this through sooner rather than later - interesting debate.

The practical point is that you are almost always going to have two, three or more of your starting 22 out of action, so some of this can be a little moot. It really is interesting to see how the 'best 22' fit into a side when there may not be roles for some guys.

So, all we can do is speculate on the best 22 and start backwards - would be interested in your thoughts: (I will note, however, that with all of this and even despite any thoughts that thinking about Rd 14 is getting ahead of ourselves, I think that game is still absolutely crucial and we should be thinking about our best lineup rather than "don't change the winning line up". What happens between now and then and particularly in that game will be crucial for that mental edge.

We arguably already have a range of teams that still base their thinking on last year and that they can beat us - Cats, for obvious reasons, Hawks perhaps for similar reasons, Dogs because they do seem to think they can beat anybody (whether rightly or wrongly), Pies the same.

Max - clearly in the 22; obviously a matter of when and who for - will get to that. In contrast to Goose, I guess it's not so urgent in my opinion.

Goose - I think he's clearly in our best 22 talent-wise, but obviously he hasn't played top notch footy for at least two or three seasons for injury reasons. I think we should get him in sooner rather than later, even if it is a 'see how he fits and whether there is a role'. We are blessed with mobile 6,3 defenders that can play both tall and small (Max, BJ, Gilbert, Blake, and then there is Dawson, and a slightly different role for Raph). I'd like to see how he would go forward, but have some doubts. But maybe there is a dedicated role that he can play against the larger bodies in defence as well - Roughead, Mooney, maybe Cloke?

Clearly, Gram will be in our best 22. So, there is potentially three - who for? Personally, I can't see Gwilt's value - I know there are some fans and we are 9-0, but remember we don't get to play the Bombers, Lions or Dees in the finals. That is potentially the Maguire in - obviously then Goose plays forward (hmm, a little big with Kos and Goose?), or plays back and one of BJ, Gilbo or Raph plays forward? TIme for a little experimentation?

Who next? With a defence that is generally across the board 6ft plus, and the way defences have changed, I would think (perhaps unfortunately) that Max would be a straight for Zac. There's a touch of whacking your first born about it (the kid's just surprised me every week to the point of "what were the Hawks doing"??!

Then we need a third: now that's tough - obviously depends on match ups and structures ... Geary? Clearly not in the top 15 but boy he's had a terrific year! McQualter - I'm a fan as well. Baker - the experience in big games will be surely invaluable; Jones - super year as well. Raph? I'm a fan as well, but maybe that time out will really cost him given the games that some of his peers have been able to put together. Blake - perhaps a question of matchups, but hard to fault him over at least two seasons.

I'm picking the latter for now because I've set myself the task ... however, it's hard to imagine such a dream run with injuries could continue so we shall see ...

P.S. Is Goose simply the back-up to Kos up forward? We really don't have any other options for really key tall targets?

Anyway, pick away ... love to hear your thoughts on your best 22s.

[MasonCJ2]

Sorry, one correction to above - I've mistakenly referred to "the latter" and that was listed as Blake - I see Blake as potentially having a few roles. I actually meant Raph as the 23rd at this point.

Good position to be in I guess.

[Griggsy]

Dawson and Fisher should be ample to face the Dees, max not needed.

Plus Bakes shouldn't be dropped for 1 poor game, in a game where the team as a whole wasn't spectacular.
Plus he still got more contested possessions than 6other players.

[avid]

Gwilt was poor yesterday but who else canplay 3rd marking forwadr who tackles? Gilbert?

Not Maguire??
2 x 5 goal hauls for Sandy. Crashing tackles all season.

Send Gwilt back to take over Baker's place. (Sorry Bakes!)

[CaptainRiewoldt]

Gwilt was not all bad. the thing about Gwilt is he has the potential RARE potential to break ghames open. He is learning the hardest position on the ground.... half forward. he is doing well IMO.

IMO

BLAKE out -- too many clangers makes tentative and mostly wronfg decisions.

Baker out -- looking slow unfortunetly

MAX in - star

GRAM or MAGUIRE in - depends on grams attitude.

[St DAC]

All you folks calling for Blakey to be dropped are gunna be sadly disappointed when the team is announced each week. He'd be in the first 5 picked, purely on versatility and effort. Can pinch hit at ruck, on ball, forward, and defence. A real jack of all trades, master of none. He provides insurance for all those areas in case on injury during a game. and whilst not star quality ala Riewoldt is at the very least a competent AFL player.

He'd get a game with the vast majority of AFL sides.

[SainterK]

So let me get this right, acccordingy to the saintsational selection comittee and from the various threads surfacing around here....people have made the following suggestions.

Out: Gwilt, Bakes, Blake, King, Zac

Anyone I've missed?

That's not too many for one week is it?

[bergholt]

He'd be in the first 5 picked, purely on versatility and effort.

yep, definitely the first five picked. he's obviously behind riewoldt, hayes, dal santo, but after them; well, i mean, you'd pick sam fisher and sammy gilbert in current form, but...; and i suppose montagna, luke ball, milney definitely; hard to leave out a ruckman, i guess, so gardy is before him, and max when fit is definitely better - well, ok. so he's not even in the top ten picked. but he's in the team, at least.

[Saints43]

I wouldn't pull him out for Goose, Armo, Rex Hunt or any other silly suggestion that's been put forward in recent times.

What's Rexy gotta do to get a run?

I thought he had shown real agression recently.

[St DAC]

yep, definitely the first five picked. he's obviously behind riewoldt, hayes, dal santo, but after them; well, i mean, you'd pick sam fisher and sammy gilbert in current form, but...; and i suppose montagna, luke ball, milney definitely; hard to leave out a ruckman, i guess, so gardy is before him, and max when fit is definitely better - well, ok. so he's not even in the top ten picked. but he's in the team, at least.

He got a game last year when Dal and Milney didn't ...

Of course he's not top 5 on talent. And maybe it's 10, or 15, not 5 when he's picked. Who the hell knows, I'm not in the inner sanctum. But guess what smartarse? He gets a gig each week, and has for some seasons now, under two quite different coaches. There has to be a reason why, and I reckon it's his versatility.

So belt that up your ring!