Is CJ the new Jason Blake???

[BonoRocks]

he's been doing a great job all year as our tagger, keeping his much higher rated apponents quiet and bobbing up for some decent posetions and goals in the meantime.

[jay young]

Jason blake has been of more use over the last 5 yrs than M maguire l ball j kosch x clarke r clarke s baker m hughton he doesnt get injured as much and those guys make just as many if more mistakes .

[perfectionist]

I think he has improved more this year than any other Saints player. Not only is he bigger and stronger but his football "smarts" have increased. It would be easy to say that this is simply due to maturation, but all footballers get older yet few improve, at least the amount he has. Just look at Carlton!

Whilst his one-sidedness is still a weakness, his aerobic capacity is making up for this at the moment. I have a feeling that we will see him make the transition from 'the tagger' to 'the tagged' over the next year or so.

[bergholt]

The overwhelming love for unskilled triers on this site does my head in.

agreed.

the attitude from many seems to be "he's a saint, you're not allowed to criticise him, just be unconditionally supportive and hope that he turns into a mediocre player".

it's not really conducive to getting the best out of the team. standards, people.

[markp]

The overwhelming love for unskilled triers on this site does my head in.

agreed.

the attitude from many seems to be "he's a saint, you're not allowed to criticise him, just be unconditionally supportive and hope that he turns into a mediocre player".

it's not really conducive to getting the best out of the team. standards, people.

We seem to be doing ok out of it.

What most appreciate is players who give their all and show heart... it's great to show faith and see someone come through, even if they will never be more than a bottom 6 player.

[saintbob]

The overwhelming love for unskilled triers on this site does my head in.

agreed.

the attitude from many seems to be "he's a saint, you're not allowed to criticise him, just be unconditionally supportive and hope that he turns into a mediocre player".

it's not really conducive to getting the best out of the team. standards, people.

I love how so many on this site love to get into CJ, but the fact is he has been our best performing recruit from the 2006 draft.
His has played more games and averages more disposals and tackles than Geary, Armitage and Eddy.

If you want to start on an average and over rated player then go no further than DAVID ARMITAGE!!!

[bergholt]

the attitude from many seems to be "he's a saint, you're not allowed to criticise him, just be unconditionally supportive and hope that he turns into a mediocre player".

it's not really conducive to getting the best out of the team. standards, people.

I love how so many on this site love to get into CJ, but the fact is he has been our best performing recruit from the 2006 draft.

actually, i didn't say anything about my opinion of cj in that post.

i reckon last year he was in our top 15 players, and this year he's improved. i think our game style suits him very well. in soccer, he'd be called an all-action, box-to-box midfielder. he'll participate in a chain of handballs in defensive 50 (getting numbers back is really important) and then two minutes later he'll pop up inside attacking 50 putting pressure on a defender (forward 50 pressure is similarly important).

i'd rather he didn't have the ball in his hands 70 metres from goal, as i don't think he's a great kick to a lead, but i think he's excellent at contributing to the quick ball movement and pressure across the ground that's given us so much success this year. and he'll go all day.

but his disposal could be a bit better.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Didn't really think Blake-CJ was a good parallel back in March, and think even less so now.

Playing as a defensive midfielder, CJ's a very different approach than Jason Blake was as a tagger. CJ doesn't present the versatility to play as a tall, be it in ruck or defense.

Even the kicking criticism doesn't really work. The Blake brainfade can be spectacular and make one cry, but it's not the mechanics that make it happen, it's telegraphing his intent to centre the ball when playing the last line of defense... CJ's kicking issues are less around decision making, and more around ability.

CJ is a very good runner and as a link in the handball chain is great. He's also a ball magnet - both things that nobody will ever say of Blakey. His tackling and pressure are fantastic too.

CJ tend to be either the most overrated or most underrated Saint depending on who's doing the review... Blake often underrated, but seldom over.

[saintsRrising]

Didn't really think Blake-CJ was a good parallel back in March, and think even less so now.

Playing as a defensive midfielder, CJ's a very different approach than Jason Blake was as a tagger. CJ doesn't present the versatility to play as a tall, be it in ruck or defense.

.

My comparison was not about where they play....even though both can both play as taggers. Positionally they are clearly different players. Blake looks settled now asa key defender...and CJ asa fullt-time mid.

My comparison was about their growth as a player....and their initially poor decision-making and skill errors...but both having ALWAYS been blessed with exceptional work and team ethics...and never-say-die determination.

That is why I see them as alike...

[Winmar7Fan]

IMO credit to Ross Lyon for saving his career by recognising his Strength as a run with shut down player like Baker.

I think he's not able to find enough of the ball and be accountable on his own to hold down a mid field type role and rack up enough possessions to cement a spot like he has now with this type role.

Once if he got 10 to 15 touches he's had a bad day and his spot was shaky where now if he has 15 touches and keeps a damaging player down to the same he's done his job well and had a great game.

[evertonfc]

My take on things after seven rounds is the same as the assesment I made a few weeks ago.

Jones has re-invented himself as a footballer by learning to tag - but he wins enough of the footy to make his spot worthwhile.

Not only that, but his growing confidence has seen him improve in just about every other area. Sure, he still turns it over sometimes BUT he no longer hesitates.

He's much more likely to charge through the middle at full tilt and get the ball into the forward 50, which is exactly what we need, even if the kick isn't ideal.

He's absolutely getting the best from himself and it's a credit to player and coach for realising where his strengths really sat. He's now proving himself as a really handy asset in our best 22. Well done CJ.

[Hugh Drod]

IMO credit to Ross Lyon for saving his career by recognising his Strength as a run with shut down player like Baker.

why doe everyone say Ross Lyonm does everything? hes a good coach but his has lots of help. weve already seen the difference 1 assistant coach can make.

[Winmar7Fan]

IMO credit to Ross Lyon for saving his career by recognising his Strength as a run with shut down player like Baker.

why doe everyone say Ross Lyonm does everything? hes a good coach but his has lots of help. weve already seen the difference 1 assistant coach can make.

Sorry Ross Lyon and his FULL Coaching Staff right down to who ever puts out the witches hats at training.

PS apologies to anyone else I might have left out.

(FFS as Stinger would say.)

I'll make a deal with you. You don't criticise me and take me so literally on my comments and I won't make any mention on your Grammar.

[meher baba]

Hey there sRr, recycling your old threads yet again?

When are you going to resurrect one of the old ones where you went on and on about how our list had been ruined? That'd surely be worth a look!!

FWIW, I stick by my post from March. CJ's best shot at an AFL career is right in the centre of the action, chasing down opponents with the ball, diving into contests, etc. He shouldn't be playing in the backline or as an outside receiver, because that's where his unreliable disposal by foot will hurt us most.

And he has been playing in the thick of things so far this year and has done well. He'll never be a star, but he's delivering an AFL standard of football this year, which is a huge improvement on how he was 2 years ago. Good on him.

I personally think that Blake is always going to be a more valuable player than CJ as he can play a wider range of roles and, at times, can be an out and out match winner.

However, one area in which I do agree that CJ and JB are similar is that I don't want to see either of them playing as wide receivers in the midfield or on the half forward line. A situation in which either of them running forward in the clear with the ball in their hands is more likely to lead to a turnover than a trip to a German pie shop!!

[saintsRrising]

Hey there sRr, recycling your old threads yet again?

Yes I bump threads...and create new ones..and have always done so.
I enjoy discussing issues and aspects that interest.

Conversation start with someone making an effort...

Maybe you would like to bump one of your past threads...maybe your one on "Barney" Lyon.....or the drop schnieder one....no shortage of great past MB threads to chose from.

When are you going to resurrect one of the old ones where you went on and on about how our list had been ruined? That'd surely be worth a look!!

!!

Why don't you pick one and bump it up then.

However I did not say that GT ruined the list...I said he was ruining it.

I think what I was posting then is very clear now to have been proven correct.

Since GT's poor List Management Practices have been replaced with proper List Management the list and team has been on the up and up.

PLAYER DEVELOPMENT

under GT..gifted low draft picks progreesed....but others were few and far between.

Whereas under Lyon obvious player development abounds.

CJ is a case in point... Blake another.....MacQualter another...

And there were rookies under GT...just he did not develop any into AFL level players. Now GT may have had less to work with..but he had rookies each year for 5 years and did not produce one long-term player out of it. Not one!!!!!!!!!!!

Rookies

In one single year with less combined rookie picks that Gt had in his tenure...the new regime outperformed the old one. Thats right in one year they developed more rookie talent than GT achieved in 5 years!!!

TRADES
look at all the picks that GT frittered away...including first rounders....with the return no where near the cost expended with very few good players gained.

Compare that sorry trade record with the mosre recent ruches where large pool of useful to good players have been gained at an extremely low cost. Truly outstanding trading by any measure.

Player conditioning.....much better now that it is not the responosbility of the by a coach.

[St Fidelius]

Is CJ the new Jason Blake???


No...I don't mean where he plays, but rather in a being a late bloomer who has flaws that need to be overcome but who comes good.

Blake has IMO really improved in many facets over the last two seasons in particular...and I used to bea harsh critic.

When Blake first emerged I was quitea fan. But then I became disillusioned by his h=failure to finish off well after doing all the hard yards, or his rabbit in the headlight momenets.

But throughout all he had a fantasistic work ethic (as does CJ0 who work hard at all facets of his game, and through gametime at last became confortbae and confident on the field to becomea very useful player.
Still no star, but yes with starlight moments, but the type of player that every coach likes to have in his team.


So will CJ work through his flaws????

Yes he is having a great season (and his best)

Makes you wonder about this...

CJ has dropped in value from the start of the season price...

Dream Team - $600

SuperCoach - $41,500

This is the total price he has dropped since the start of the season.

To me this does not make any sense

[saintsRrising]

. A situation in which either of them running forward in the clear with the ball in their hands is more likely to lead to a turnover than a trip to a German pie shop!!

err...have you seen the goals this year that CJ has ether kicked himself or created by his runs forward?

[mad saint guy]

I've obviously been a massive critic of Jones in the past, and while I acknowledge that he has improved far more than I thought possible, I still don't think he's any more than a struggler looking good in a dominant team.

I had the chance to go to my first live game for the year on Monday, and he still just has terrible footy instincts. Two passages in particular stick out in my mind; one was when he was running back into the opposition goals to block space when he saw a loose Collingwood player all by himself 35m out from goal. Rather than manning him up he keeps running towards the goals, looking incredibly confused and stands still while the Collingwood player takes an uncontested mark directly in front of goal. Luckily the player missed, but Jones then spent the next 20 seconds of play looking around in confusion. The other time was when he got the ball in our back pocket under light pressure and he had an option in the clear right in front of him and another on the other side. He looks at both options, hesitates, and the Collingwood players move in on his left side so he panicks and coughs up the ball.

Jones has improved his skills to a level where he is usually capable of giving off a 20m kick to someone in the clear under no pressure, but he still can't function under pressure. When we play Geelong or Hawthorn at their best, our structures will be tested and probably broken at times and Jones will become a liability.

I'm happy for him to play against the lesser sides while the kids get some VFL experience, but when we've got guys like the Clarkes tearing the VFL apart I don't thnk he should be in the team. That said, Lyon clearly has identified the players he wants playing for him and Jones is one of them, so my opinion obviously means nothing.

[St Fidelius]

I've obviously been a massive critic of Jones in the past, and while I acknowledge that he has improved far more than I thought possible, I still don't think he's any more than a struggler looking good in a dominant team.

I had the chance to go to my first live game for the year on Monday, and he still just has terrible footy instincts. Two passages in particular stick out in my mind; one was when he was running back into the opposition goals to block space when he saw a loose Collingwood player all by himself 35m out from goal. Rather than manning him up he keeps running towards the goals, looking incredibly confused and stands still while the Collingwood player takes an uncontested mark directly in front of goal. Luckily the player missed, but Jones then spent the next 20 seconds of play looking around in confusion. The other time was when he got the ball in our back pocket under light pressure and he had an option in the clear right in front of him and another on the other side. He looks at both options, hesitates, and the Collingwood players move in on his left side so he panicks and coughs up the ball.

Jones has improved his skills to a level where he is usually capable of giving off a 20m kick to someone in the clear under no pressure, but he still can't function under pressure. When we play Geelong or Hawthorn at their best, our structures will be tested and probably broken at times and Jones will become a liability.

I'm happy for him to play against the lesser sides while the kids get some VFL experience, but when we've got guys like the Clarkes tearing the VFL apart I don't thnk he should be in the team. That said, Lyon clearly has identified the players he wants playing for him and Jones is one of them, so my opinion obviously means nothing.

I really don't see how you could say that Jones WILL be a liability against the Cats and the Hawks.

If he is able to keep a key and damaging midfielder down on their input in a match, he will more than be an asset and not a liability.

[plugger66]

I've obviously been a massive critic of Jones in the past, and while I acknowledge that he has improved far more than I thought possible, I still don't think he's any more than a struggler looking good in a dominant team.

I had the chance to go to my first live game for the year on Monday, and he still just has terrible footy instincts. Two passages in particular stick out in my mind; one was when he was running back into the opposition goals to block space when he saw a loose Collingwood player all by himself 35m out from goal. Rather than manning him up he keeps running towards the goals, looking incredibly confused and stands still while the Collingwood player takes an uncontested mark directly in front of goal. Luckily the player missed, but Jones then spent the next 20 seconds of play looking around in confusion. The other time was when he got the ball in our back pocket under light pressure and he had an option in the clear right in front of him and another on the other side. He looks at both options, hesitates, and the Collingwood players move in on his left side so he panicks and coughs up the ball.

Jones has improved his skills to a level where he is usually capable of giving off a 20m kick to someone in the clear under no pressure, but he still can't function under pressure. When we play Geelong or Hawthorn at their best, our structures will be tested and probably broken at times and Jones will become a liability.

I'm happy for him to play against the lesser sides while the kids get some VFL experience, but when we've got guys like the Clarkes tearing the VFL apart I don't thnk he should be in the team. That said, Lyon clearly has identified the players he wants playing for him and Jones is one of them, so my opinion obviously means nothing.

I dont see how you can even compare the Clarkes or Raph as he is the only one playing to CJ. CJ is an on ball tagger and Raph couldnt tag a street sign. If CJ is to be dropped it has to be like for like as RL obviously wants a on ball tagger.

[rexy]

Bj kicked a goal on Monday night, it was either right b4 1/2 time or 3/4 time. We had moved the ball across the centre and onto the half forward flank nearly hard against the boundary 50 meters out. We had done it with chip kicks to a man on a short lead and looked like we were likely to end up going back the same way as we had no options.

When the ball got in to the hands of Jones he immediately played on and totally flat footed his man and Goddards, this allowed him to get a hand ball to BJ with enough time to steady and shoot.

Mark my words the boy Jones has improved and continues to improve.

[saintsRrising]

32 games up...nearing 50...and the CJ is just starting to strut his stuff.

[stinger]

i'm always amused when posters say...welll so and so was a crap player 'cause i said so....but he isn't now because he has improved out of sight..........posters never admit that they were simply wrong.......you don't get to be listed as an afl player if you are crap to begin with.......unless of course your name is rix.....

[CeilidhSaint]

Those who don't think CJ is in our best 22 are kidding themselves - we have had our best 22 out there almost every week this year!
He has taken it right up to every single player he has played on this year and beaten some big names.
Anyone who doesn't think CJ deserves his spot can't believe that the coaching panel knows what they are doing - St Kilda of 2009 are role players - do your job and you stay in the side.......
Everton FC - as a Liverpool fan I strangely enough very much agree with you and some others whose opinions I usually value - their dream team values have very much dropped!

[saintsRrising]

but when we've got guys like the Clarkes tearing the VFL apart .

err..X did his acl a bit back and is not actually playing.