Should Gwilt Keep Goose Out?

[d roit]

funny how ppl's perceive things differently, now I'm no major Gwilt fan but I thought he did ok last night.

The idea of swapping Gwilt for Maguire makes little sense coz they don't play the same role. Gwilt is just a bit more run and carry at the moment. His attack on the ball is first rate and his delivery is really good.

On Maguire, I think he really needs to do a long apprenticeship in the 2s. Question does Maguire have the endurance to keep with an opponent that would try to exploit his fitness???
I'm not entirely sure but my impression is no. He plays a bit more like ur traditional lead from the square forward. I think those forwards went out with the G-Train.

Fair call, however your saying that regardless of his output, maguire should play for sandy all year? i think thats rather unfair. did you watch the game on saturday? From what i saw, he wasnt the quickest player on the field, but he was able to run for most of the day and his marking overhead was superb.

Gwilt struggles overhead from some of the best midfielders in the competition not to mention an average vfl side. Again, his performance itslef isnt enough to warrant an omission, however we cant just discount bringing good players into the team because we won.

i'd like to see Gwilt take some of those marks kicked by vfl mids.

[saintjake]

the type of players we have playing the the positions at this very point in time is working.
so i cease to understand the logic in swaping guys,
who are different types of players.
i.e goose for gwilt.
look at geelong and the hawks they had some
ordinary player, but as a collective it works.
just because players have played well in the past, were a high draft pick, or have a name
doesnt mean they have to be in the team.
if they are better then the opponet, in the position they are going to take, then go for it.
but atm, our team is very nicely settled.
and i dont think raph, goose or armo, have been best on ground for sandy every week?
have they.

[desertsaint]

it's a fair enough argument - if it aint broke...

But you also need to keep in mind rewarding players who are giving 100% every week in the seconds - at what point do those players start to become disillusioned and hoping a first team player gets injured as that's the only chance they'll get.
I also think we should rotate one player or so a week - if we don't players will get fatigued over the season, and if a spate of injuries hit in one week we'll be bringing a group of players that have yet to experience the intensity that the first team brings to the game.

Both arguments are valid IMO - but the season is a marathon and we want as many players match fit and match hardened come finals time!

[Ghost Like]

it's a fair enough argument - if it aint broke...

But you also need to keep in mind rewarding players who are giving 100% every week in the seconds - at what point do those players start to become disillusioned and hoping a first team player gets injured as that's the only chance they'll get.
I also think we should rotate one player or so a week - if we don't players will get fatigued over the season, and if a spate of injuries hit in one week we'll be bringing a group of players that have yet to experience the intensity that the first team brings to the game.

Both arguments are valid IMO - but the season is a marathon and we want as many players match fit and match hardened come finals time!

You can't reward players giving 100% in the 2nds by dropping players giving 100% in the ones. That is flawed. Players will get dropped when their intensity falls away, they divert from their team roles and ignore instructions from the coach. Players will get injured, unfortunately that's a given and their stress and fatigue levels are being monitored so there will be a turnover through the year, that's natural attrition.

IMO Gwilt for Goose is not necessarily the best fit, Raph would play the Gwilt role alot better but Raph I think needs time to prove he's fit and ready to return. Gwilt must stay, he's obviously performing the role to the letter of the coach's instruction and the team results are proof.

This week will be interesting against Essendon, young quick but small down back. With Ryder their only ruck means we may have to try something from left field. My thought, McEvoy out, Goose in to pick up Neagle leaving Gardy as our only ruck with the possibility of Gilbo spending some time in the middle to run with Ryder. Goose playing CHB allows Fisher to remain free and give Zac a chop out against Lloyd.

I did notice Blake struggle with his knee so will interesting to see how that pulls up in 6 days...if no good then Eddy may be in to get the job on Monfries.

[older saint]

it's a fair enough argument - if it aint broke...

But you also need to keep in mind rewarding players who are giving 100% every week in the seconds - at what point do those players start to become disillusioned and hoping a first team player gets injured as that's the only chance they'll get.
I also think we should rotate one player or so a week - if we don't players will get fatigued over the season, and if a spate of injuries hit in one week we'll be bringing a group of players that have yet to experience the intensity that the first team brings to the game.

Both arguments are valid IMO - but the season is a marathon and we want as many players match fit and match hardened come finals time!

Rotations and rest is a good argument later in the season no doubt, however players will have to want to rest . Remember Taylor from Hawthorn - rested round 22 Campbell and Renough played well and he was unable to get back in and missed a Premiership. Never give a sucker ( even a teammate) an even break

[bergholt]

Koschitzke, J 11 touches, 27%eff, 1 goal 3, 0 contested marks 0 tackles, 2 clangers.

um, yeah? so kossie was pretty bad as well - though he did have 4 shots at goal, and if he'd kicked better might have been ok.

hayes and mini lead the team in tackles with 9, spiderman had 5
then you had
ray
roo
jones
GWILT
on 4

yep. his tackling was ok, though i remember him missing a couple. but he didn't do much else.

[skeptic]

Fair call, however your saying that regardless of his output, maguire should play for sandy all year? i think thats rather unfair. did you watch the game on saturday? From what i saw, he wasnt the quickest player on the field, but he was able to run for most of the day and his marking overhead was superb.

not saying that at all, but u have to acknowledge that there is a gap between AFL and VFL footy.
if Maguire came into the team this week, the bombers (IMO) would be wise to put their most damaging running player on him and exploiting him that way

All of our marking forwards from Roo, to Kosi, to McEvoy and Gardiner can all run.
Gwilt as a medium sized forward can run too

Can Maguire!!?? Honestly I don't know, but my impression is not yet. Give him another month (unless we need him).

I like the look of him I do. Has a bit of Cam Mooney about him. Tough, reasonable grab + Maguire looks like he's a decent kick of the pill from a set shot... there's plenty to work with, but his fitness needs to be at its peak again IMO

[mad saint guy]

This week will be interesting against Essendon, young quick but small down back. With Ryder their only ruck means we may have to try something from left field. My thought, McEvoy out, Goose in to pick up Neagle leaving Gardy as our only ruck with the possibility of Gilbo spending some time in the middle to run with Ryder. Goose playing CHB allows Fisher to remain free and give Zac a chop out against Lloyd.

Essendon also have Tom Bellchambers. He's a kid, but he's solid enough to compete, has very good tap work and can take some big contested grabs. If King is fit then he'll play. If not, then McEvoy will hold his spot.

[d roit]

Fair call, however your saying that regardless of his output, maguire should play for sandy all year? i think thats rather unfair. did you watch the game on saturday? From what i saw, he wasnt the quickest player on the field, but he was able to run for most of the day and his marking overhead was superb.

if Maguire came into the team this week, the bombers (IMO) would be wise to put their most damaging running player on him and exploiting him that way

All of our marking forwards from Roo, to Kosi, to McEvoy and Gardiner can all run.
Gwilt as a medium sized forward can run too

you cant honestly say that Mcevoy and Gardiner would do better against a running defender than goose? i mean, full credit to them, but they would absolutely fall over if that were the case.

again, ill reiterate that goose deserves at least a shot in the team not because someone is slipping, but because he is playing very well and thats what you do with good players when they perform regardless of previous injuries.

lets not forget hes already played more then a handful of full games for sandy and had a preseason under his belt. you said it yourself hed be a good kick for goal and we all know his dukes are fantastic.

[loris]

Some need to go back and watch the replay closely and just see the solid effort Gwilt put in. Notice especially in the first half how often he was at the bottom of packs, holding the ball in or the player with the ball.
Also have a look at the final quarter, Gwilt twice started of the chain of handballs that led to two goals. Give the lad a break.

Also I'm sure he was playing to coaches instructions at times to try to lead his opponents away from the play or away from Reiwoldts area of operating.

Keep at it Gwilt........... just like Jason Blake, you hopefully will make all the naysayers eventually think you are the best thing since sliced bread

[InkerSaint]

It's funny how different perceptions can be.

Doggies supporters on the Woof forums certainly didn't think Gwilt was a passenger:

Another thing; why play Lake as a defender if he's going to pick up a third or fourth string player? Cloke/Gwilt have beaten him in the last two weeks. He's caught between trying to play as a loose man to take relatively uncontested marks, and minding/dominating a lesser opponent. The massive problem is he's doing neither. Morris was killed today and Gwilt took the honours. Bad coaching IMO - Lake needs to do what he's supposed to do. Take the gorilla forward that plays deep and play off him where possible. At the moment he's giving us nothing and it's hurting.

Lake had no influence as a rebounding defender which they're trying to encourage him to do. He was never in a position to help out other defenders, particularly Morris who was getting thrashed, and at the same time Gwilt still picked up possessions and kicked a goal himself.

Gwilt/Saints would be laughing at that one.

And I was at the game. Didn't particularly notice Gwilt's job on Morris. Thought Lake played okay... not by Doggies standards...

[bigcarl]

i think the most likely scenario is no change (or just king in for mcevoy) and there's a good argument for that since we've just beaten collingwood by a record margin.


i'd dearly love to see goose in, but i'm not sure you can have both he and kosi in the same forward line (though others might have equally valid views on this, which i'd be interested to hear).

if kosi was to play second ruck, then yes.

[AP Erebus]

We had this argument the other week...

I believe he is doing his job in the team and is clearly doing what the coach is asking of him.

[skeptic]

you cant honestly say that Mcevoy and Gardiner would do better against a running defender than goose? i mean, full credit to them, but they would absolutely fall over if that were the case.

again, ill reiterate that goose deserves at least a shot in the team not because someone is slipping, but because he is playing very well and thats what you do with good players when they perform regardless of previous injuries.

lets not forget hes already played more then a handful of full games for sandy and had a preseason under his belt. you said it yourself hed be a good kick for goal and we all know his dukes are fantastic.

I hear you, but Gardiner and McEvoy are ruckman that rotate forward. Goose is not a ruckman

[sainter2631]

Honestly Gwilt was average last night. 11 disposals and looked to be struggling. Had quite a few ineffective kicks and was outmarked during 1 on 1 contests constantly. I doubt Ross will change a side that came out 88 point victors, but if he wants to put Maguire in the side- than he should take Gwilts spot.

[Schillaci]

We will have no changes to the line up this week unless there is an illness or injury concern. Raph back before the Goose for mine as well.

[bigred]

What a awesome postion to be in.

To have to make decisions like this for a change. Actually having the depth for this to be an issue.

IMHFO....Goose, while he may be monstering the VFL at the moment, he still needs more match time. To get his base right up. Seriously, the difference between the VFL to the AFL is massive. Especially with the workrate that will be expected of him. A good player can cheat in the VFL.... Matty is really pushing though. He is going to be undeniable if he stays fit.

Raph...Similar situation. We may as well get him right before we bring him back. Full stop. We dont need or want to bring him in unless he is cherry.

Hudge and Dempster will be on this list shortly.

We are in a good position atm....crazy good. Best in a decade...nay longer.

[claystreet]

I would think no change.

Keep Goose in the Magoos and get him cherry ripe.

The thought of Max and Dempster also behind the scenes
can only mean good things.

[hAyES]

I was going to come in and say that Gwilt and Goose play opposite ends of the ground, but has Goose been playing forward in the VFL? If so and he is playing well and kicking goals then that changes a lot.

[plugger66]

Goose has played up forward for one week. Lets see how he goes against Werribee and if he does well and Jimmy is ordinary then we may look at a change. RL usually doesnt change winning sides unless a star is coming back or there is an injury. Apologies to Eddy and Big Ben this week.

[rexy]

Goose will not come in for Gwilt, this would make the side to tall against most opposition and espacially against the speedy essendon HB line.

Goose may get a chance to come in in place of Blake who apparently had a niggle so may be rested due to the short break, depends on how bad the niggle is I guess.

McEvoy was good enough to retain his spot IMO, looked competent in the ruck and moved OK, Essendons ruck division is light but agile and I would have thought we will try to take advantage of this by rotating two big boys through and physically dominating the stoppages. Dont expect to see both rucks on the ground at the same time to often due to their pace. If King comes straight back in then this says a lot for the regard that he is held in by the coaching staff, either way we will win the ruck contest and must be aware of covering Ryder around the ground.

[InkerSaint]

Plugger. Congratulations on making it to the match selection committee. From the title of this thread anyone would think Gwilt was also on the committee. Or have you taken his spot?

We had a great win last night. Not happy unless you're calling for someone's head? Honestly... some of you lot are beneath contempt.

[BigMart]

Fair dinkum......

Gwilt has played across HF and has kicked three on the season......he does some good things and then some poor aswell.....

He is a fringe player........doing a role......far from an highly effective player, more a contributor.....

His opponent last night was Nick Maxwell (who is average) and he was clearly Collingwoods best......paying little attention to Gwilt and zoning off him to cut off the power fwds....

He did tackle well last night, and as the game wore on he presented well.....but again, he was not amongst the best........actually, only Baker, McEvoy and Jones were less effective.....against their direct opponent combined with hurt factor....

Against Geelong he will have Tom Harley who will zone off more effectively diminishing the impact by Roo/Kosi and beat him one on one if needed......

Against Hawthorn he will cop Luke Hodge......who will smash him offensively, and set them up....

What player could come in and provide a foil for the big two that the opposition rebounder would have to respect...

[St Fidelius]

Fair dinkum......

Gwilt has played across HF and has kicked three on the season......he does some good things and then some poor aswell.....

He is a fringe player........doing a role......far from an highly effective player, more a contributor.....

His opponent last night was Nick Maxwell (who is average) and he was clearly Collingwoods best......paying little attention to Gwilt and zoning off him to cut off the power fwds....

He did tackle well last night, and as the game wore on he presented well.....but again, he was not amongst the best........actually, only Baker, McEvoy and Jones were less effective.....against their direct opponent combined with hurt factor....

Against Geelong he will have Tom Harley who will zone off more effectively diminishing the impact by Roo/Kosi and beat him one on one if needed......

Against Hawthorn he will cop Luke Hodge......who will smash him offensively, and set them up....

What player could come in and provide a foil for the big two that the opposition rebounder would have to respect...

I would play Gilbert up forward, and either Goose, Max or Raph down back.

But if we want a running defender I would go for Raph or Max

[bigcarl]

Fair dinkum......

Gwilt has played across HF and has kicked three on the season......he does some good things and then some poor aswell.....

He is a fringe player........doing a role......far from an highly effective player, more a contributor.....

His opponent last night was Nick Maxwell (who is average) and he was clearly Collingwoods best......paying little attention to Gwilt and zoning off him to cut off the power fwds....

He did tackle well last night, and as the game wore on he presented well.....but again, he was not amongst the best........actually, only Baker, McEvoy and Jones were less effective.....against their direct opponent combined with hurt factor....

Against Geelong he will have Tom Harley who will zone off more effectively diminishing the impact by Roo/Kosi and beat him one on one if needed......

Against Hawthorn he will cop Luke Hodge......who will smash him offensively, and set them up....

What player could come in and provide a foil for the big two that the opposition rebounder would have to respect...

so do you think goose, kosi and roo could play in the same forward line?

on the one hand it would give us aerial dominance, you'd think. on the other, the ball might come out of there pretty quickly.

not necessarily totally against it, but it is risky.