R7 Match Preview - Collingwood v St.Kilda - By DaVe86

[Sobraz]

Appreciate the report Dave... good job...

Disagree on Goddard... He is as top shelf as you get in the AFL at the moment, and his decision making is his strength...

Poor decision makers at AFL level struggle both under pressure and when they have time... Goddard is arguably the best decision maker in the comp when he is loose; he doesnt all of a sudden become poor when someone is on his hammer...

With regard to the Blake v Cloke, Blake has come a long long way in the past 2 seasons, and is now a very clever and versatile defender... Cloke is one of the most overrated players in the AFL... His stats alone paint a very different picture to his reputation... If he played for any other club he'd be on the fringe....

[Shades]

good effort david. certainly a very thorough analysis. my only criticism would be that it takes longer to read than the game will take to watch.

lol

[HarveysDeciple]

Good post Dave and thanks for taking the time.

You make some good points.

Just one quick note on the perceived arrogance you detect...

You do realise Collingwood are the living, breathing definition of the word?

No offence.

[St DAC]

Hey DaVe86

A good read, obviously a lot of thought went into it. I don't necessarily agree with all of your points, but the bottom line is that while on form the Saints should win, it's a 2 horse race, and it's not impossible for the 'Pies to win at all. I think they'd need a lot to go right for them and a lot wrong for us for that result to happen, but footy's a funny game that way.

Hopefully it's a cracker of a game (and we win of course!)

Cheers

[DaVe86]

Good post Dave and thanks for taking the time.

You make some good points.

Just one quick note on the perceived arrogance you detect...

You do realise Collingwood are the living, breathing definition of the word?

No offence.

none taken...collingwood supporters are as arrogant and cocky as they come. You should've seen the pies forums after we beat the Cats last year.

[Superboot]

On Goddard, in the early years he was a ditherer. Needed far too much time to dispose of the ball. Looked like he was trying to analyse the situation and go with the best option. Not playing on instinct. Would get himself into trouble as a result. Has improved out of sight in that area. You hardly ever see him under this self-inflicted pressure these days.

He has two remaining problems.

First he drops one clanger in each game. But, just as Aussie Jones used to do, he soon makes up for it and once he's got the clanger out of the way he's OK from there on.

Second, his handpasses close in often go at 100kmp straight at his teammate's face, often resulting in a turnover.

Apart from that, he's worth his weight in gold.

[Richter]

Just one quick note on the perceived arrogance you detect...

You do realise Collingwood are the living, breathing definition of the word?

Er no.... that would be Carlton.

[stinger]

He knows about as much about St.K as I know about the Auckland Warriors......sweet FA...

Some examples

Cloke is more versatile than Blake.....Blake has played in at least 4 positions with success in his career, a HS article titled Mr.Fix it and a nickname of Selleys outline his versatility.....Cloke 1 (hit up CHF) and Cloke has NEVER beaten Cloke....

Goddard.....possibly the best decision maker in the AFL, and his game is built around composure.....is suspect under pressure.....I would rather the ball in his hands than Dane Swan's - one can kick - one cannot.......and BTW - he played in the midfield for the second half of 07........as for Maxwell being the ideal match-up....yes he has the size to go with BJ, but on sheer talent Goddard is streets ahead......this would be universally accepted.

Montagna - lack of defensive pressure......isn't he leading our tackle count....do some research

Ball to tag Swan - I don't think so...he will be a head to head with an opponent who can kick

Mini to tag Pendlebury - No.....too small.......

I hope your two tags eventuate.......Barham and Wellingham have what....20 games between them.......against Joey and Dal - 250+

Rocca is bordering on hopeless ATM and I would expect Zac (who has not had more than 2 kicked on him this year to towel him up and expose him the other way...

Gardiner will struggle with Fraser cheating around the ground.......but 'the big show' will put him to the sword in the contest - if he has hardness issues, they will be tested.

Do some research on the other team.......by watching some games........not from fan forums..

If we do not win by at least 8 I would be disappointed........Collingwood have 6 playes who would not be considered in our 22.....Cox, Clarke, Wellingham, Barham, Toovey, Rocca.......if we lost - it would be a disgrace

s*** st mart.......you wll have the pie loving mod on here calling for your blood...they think this kid is a messiah or f****** close to it........

[Loyal]

Just one quick note on the perceived arrogance you detect...

You do realise Collingwood are the living, breathing definition of the word?

Er no.... that would be Carlton.

correct. give yourself the night off Richter

[stinger]

Good post Dave and thanks for taking the time.

You make some good points.

Just one quick note on the perceived arrogance you detect...

You do realise Collingwood are the living, breathing definition of the word?

No offence.

none taken...collingwood supporters are as arrogant and cocky as they come. You should've seen the pies forums after we beat the Cats last year.

you should have been at filth stadium when i used to go there as a kid....and get spat on by mongrels......filth your mob were then..and will be forever in my mind.......

[Loyal]

who is it that thinks they are arrogant?

[DaVe86]

Good post Dave and thanks for taking the time.

You make some good points.

Just one quick note on the perceived arrogance you detect...

You do realise Collingwood are the living, breathing definition of the word?

No offence.

none taken...collingwood supporters are as arrogant and cocky as they come. You should've seen the pies forums after we beat the Cats last year.

you should have been at filth stadium when i used to go there as a kid....and get spat on by mongrels......filth your mob were then..and will be forever in my mind.......

Im 23. so don't really have memories of those days.

But what has become very clear to me is how much our sides hate each other. Its kind of unhealthy, and seems to be based on incidents that happened 30 years ago.

We hate Carlton and Essendon, but for some reason there is also a kind of mutual respect.


However with St.Kilda, it seems we simply hate your mob...or atleast the old timers who have scars of the past. And it all seems to go back to the John O'Dea v John Greening incident. From what i can tell, no 'older' collingwood supporter will ever forgive the saints for this clash...and the subsequent tlaks about making O'Dea a hall of fame member.


On the other hand, you guys hate us because of the terrible and ferral supporters that would have given you a hard time when you trekked to vic park. I have no doubt that going to Vic Park in the 70's would have been a scary experience. Thank God we have moved on from that.



But for me...and perhaps it is my upbringing in a st.kilda family, these incidents in the past bear no weight. Fair enough you despise the old ways, but I'm a new age supporter and I carry no scars or battle wounds.

Seems to me it may be time to leave these bad memories in the past because its unhealthy to hold onto them. I do not condone the Greening incident...but nor will i hold it against St.Kilda and supporters for something that I was not around to witness. I do not condone the abuse hurled towards your fans in the old days....but nor do i expect to be stereotyped for actions of people in your generation...not mine.

[OneEyedSainter77]

Good post Dave and thanks for taking the time.

You make some good points.

Just one quick note on the perceived arrogance you detect...

You do realise Collingwood are the living, breathing definition of the word?

No offence.

none taken...collingwood supporters are as arrogant and cocky as they come. You should've seen the pies forums after we beat the Cats last year.

you should have been at filth stadium when i used to go there as a kid....and get spat on by mongrels......filth your mob were then..and will be forever in my mind.......

Im 23. so don't really have memories of those days.

But what has become very clear to me is how much our sides hate each other. Its kind of unhealthy, and seems to be based on incidents that happened 30 years ago.

We hate Carlton and Essendon, but for some reason there is also a kind of mutual respect.


However with St.Kilda, it seems we simply hate your mob...or atleast the old timers who have scars of the past. And it all seems to go back to the John O'Dea v John Greening incident. From what i can tell, no 'older' collingwood supporter will ever forgive the saints for this clash...and the subsequent tlaks about making O'Dea a hall of fame member.


On the other hand, you guys hate us because of the terrible and ferral supporters that would have given you a hard time when you trekked to vic park. I have no doubt that going to Vic Park in the 70's would have been a scary experience. Thank God we have moved on from that.



But for me...and perhaps it is my upbringing in a st.kilda family, these incidents in the past bear no weight. Fair enough you despise the old ways, but I'm a new age supporter and I carry no scars or battle wounds.

Seems to me it may be time to leave these bad memories in the past because its unhealthy to hold onto them. I do not condone the Greening incident...but nor will i hold it against St.Kilda and supporters for something that I was not around to witness. I do not condone the abuse hurled towards your fans in the old days....but nor do i expect to be stereotyped for actions of people in your generation...not mine.

I have said it before and I'll say it again -don't take stinger's words to heart. ANy supporter of ANY other team is a troll to him. Its nothing personal - just the way he is. (btw, stinger, I don't begrudge you becuase of that. You're personally allowed to have any opinoin you like of course)

And just know that no amount of explaining will ever make him change his mind. As long as you don't hang around and gloat here should a tremendous upset occur on Monday (doubtful) you're welcome to post here anyway.

[stinger]

Good post Dave and thanks for taking the time.

You make some good points.

Just one quick note on the perceived arrogance you detect...

You do realise Collingwood are the living, breathing definition of the word?

No offence.

none taken...collingwood supporters are as arrogant and cocky as they come. You should've seen the pies forums after we beat the Cats last year.

you should have been at filth stadium when i used to go there as a kid....and get spat on by mongrels......filth your mob were then..and will be forever in my mind.......

Im 23. so don't really have memories of those days.

But what has become very clear to me is how much our sides hate each other. Its kind of unhealthy, and seems to be based on incidents that happened 30 years ago.

We hate Carlton and Essendon, but for some reason there is also a kind of mutual respect.


However with St.Kilda, it seems we simply hate your mob...or atleast the old timers who have scars of the past. And it all seems to go back to the John O'Dea v John Greening incident. From what i can tell, no 'older' collingwood supporter will ever forgive the saints for this clash...and the subsequent tlaks about making O'Dea a hall of fame member.


On the other hand, you guys hate us because of the terrible and ferral supporters that would have given you a hard time when you trekked to vic park. I have no doubt that going to Vic Park in the 70's would have been a scary experience. Thank God we have moved on from that.



But for me...and perhaps it is my upbringing in a st.kilda family, these incidents in the past bear no weight. Fair enough you despise the old ways, but I'm a new age supporter and I carry no scars or battle wounds.

Seems to me it may be time to leave these bad memories in the past because its unhealthy to hold onto them. I do not condone the Greening incident...but nor will i hold it against St.Kilda and supporters for something that I was not around to witness. I do not condone the abuse hurled towards your fans in the old days....but nor do i expect to be stereotyped for actions of people in your generation...not mine.

I have said it before and I'll say it again -don't take stinger's words to heart. ANy supporter of ANY other team is a troll to him. Its nothing personal - just the way he is. (btw, stinger, I don't begrudge you becuase of that. You're personally allowed to have any opinoin you like of course)

And just know that no amount of explaining will ever make him change his mind. As long as you don't hang around and gloat here should a tremendous upset occur on Monday (doubtful) you're welcome to post here anyway.

not true mate.....johnpeterbudgefan club and i are good mates...even though his dad played for the filth..and....i never have a go at golden hawk these days ....plus... i copied a game for a dees fan on here and sent it to her after she asked if anyone would.......but do i hate the filth...you betcha.......and carscum.....

the carry on over jimmy odea by the fith for what really was a terrible but unfortunate accident or event.just turns my stomach.....jimmy did his time.....and...no one really intends that sort of thing to happen.........odea has had to live with what happened......bet most filth fans will see to that.....


....but will i forget being spat on by grown men when i was seven years of age ...just because i was wearing a saints jumper.....????.....never......


it wasn't just the 70's that the mongrelsat filth park gave mere mortals a hard time.......from my expierence things remained the same in the 50s and 60s........old timers told me it had been that way since the suburb was born......low class morons......what is commonly called trailer trash these days.......











.....ps.....off the record.......my best man was and still is a filth supporter.......we even go to the footy together......some of you should remember that this is just an internet forum ffs....got nothing to do with real life.....

[johnpeterbudgefanclub]

Thanks sting for those nice words. Oh and yes I still exist. Had a few other priorities going on this year thus far and haven't been around as much, if at all. Hmmm maybe it's cause you guys are winning....

Think what people have to remember going on to an opposition forum is that u have to expect to meet fire with fire. Have been here for a fair while now and enjoyed the friendly banter.

Yeah all good at this end. Just imported a 1967 Ford Mustang from the states which has taken up a lot of my time and have only been to one game this year, yes one.

Nice start to the year guys. Will pop my head in over the next few days and have a read.

Cheers all.

JPBFC.

[asiu]

...go to the games well informed

britannia's original colours (barks, take notice here) were red white and blue

harry cook of 59 rupert st collingwood was their first captain

their first game on joining the vfa in 1892 was against stkilda



and we smashed em

as we r gunna on monday night




that sort of well informed?




ps...

then it only took them 10 years before claiming 'discovery' of the stab pass (leading to the first 'great leap forward' in footy tactics)

pity they were in tassy when they 'discovered' it though

[Mr Magic]

Good post Dave and thanks for taking the time.

You make some good points.

Just one quick note on the perceived arrogance you detect...

You do realise Collingwood are the living, breathing definition of the word?

No offence.

none taken...collingwood supporters are as arrogant and cocky as they come. You should've seen the pies forums after we beat the Cats last year.

you should have been at filth stadium when i used to go there as a kid....and get spat on by mongrels......filth your mob were then..and will be forever in my mind.......

Im 23. so don't really have memories of those days.

But what has become very clear to me is how much our sides hate each other. Its kind of unhealthy, and seems to be based on incidents that happened 30 years ago.

We hate Carlton and Essendon, but for some reason there is also a kind of mutual respect.


However with St.Kilda, it seems we simply hate your mob...or atleast the old timers who have scars of the past. And it all seems to go back to the John O'Dea v John Greening incident. From what i can tell, no 'older' collingwood supporter will ever forgive the saints for this clash...and the subsequent tlaks about making O'Dea a hall of fame member.


On the other hand, you guys hate us because of the terrible and ferral supporters that would have given you a hard time when you trekked to vic park. I have no doubt that going to Vic Park in the 70's would have been a scary experience. Thank God we have moved on from that.



But for me...and perhaps it is my upbringing in a st.kilda family, these incidents in the past bear no weight. Fair enough you despise the old ways, but I'm a new age supporter and I carry no scars or battle wounds.

Seems to me it may be time to leave these bad memories in the past because its unhealthy to hold onto them. I do not condone the Greening incident...but nor will i hold it against St.Kilda and supporters for something that I was not around to witness. I do not condone the abuse hurled towards your fans in the old days....but nor do i expect to be stereotyped for actions of people in your generation...not mine.

For me there is something about Collingwood fans.

I can go back to incidents from the early 60's but the real defining ones for me occured in teh 90's

When the COllingwood ferals covered thermselve in 'glory' so much that Nicky Winmar felt the need to lift his jumper at Victoria Park and show the 'fans' the colour of his skin?
Why do you think he felt the need to do that?
The Collingwood fans were DISGUSTING towards indigenous players. No other Club came close to dishing out the racial hatred towards them - maybe becasue every other Club had had at least 1 indigenous player.
Not good old Collingwood. Only they amongst the VFL teams couldn't find an indigenous player anywhere in the country good enough for their Club.

The shame and embarrasment suffered by the mighty Collingwood over that incident caused them to run out and find an indigenous player (or 2) and to publicly come out and disavow their fans actions (finally) but deep down things didn't change quickly. You only nneded to go to games at Waverley, MCG and Telstra where the fans were mixed in together to hear the insults still being hurled by these 'heros from the outer'. Yes it happens with idiots from all Clubs but the vitriol and volume emanating from the Collingwood fans makes the others pale into insignificance.

There's a reason Collingwood fans are known as 'ferals' and 'filth' generally. The nicknames weren't struck by accidnet.

And of course not all Collingwood fans are insensitive, racist, disgusting animals. It's just that they seem to have a bigger percentage of them than the other Clubs.

Under Maguire there seems to have been an attempt to 'clean up' the Collingwood image and good on him for that because they were collectively (not individually) disgusting. The performance they put on after losing to St Kilda in the finals last year shows he still has a lot of work to do yet.

The longer they didn't win a premiership the worse they seemed to get. Too many of them grew up without any football success and their 'superiority complex (we've won the most premierships - 13) just didn't cut it anymore as other teams equalled and surpassed them.

So Dave86 you may not understand why Collingwood fans seem to be universally reviled? Well maybe just go to a game wearing your Dad's Saints colours and listen to them from an opposition perspective.

[St Fidelius]

Yeah, good read by the OP...

I spoke to CJ on Friday and out of the three players he thought he will play on (Pendelbury, Davis and Swan) he did seem really keen on the thought of matching up against Davis. CJ said that he thinks Davis can be a real match winner and I feel he was hoping to play against him.

I am looking forward to the game and the matchups, should be a cracking game

[stinger]

spot on m m

[DaVe86]

Fair post M M.

No doubt Collingwood supporters as a collective have a bad track record. You are right, under Maguire's regime there has been an emphasis on 'cleaning' things up. Its hard to undo the past.

Anyway, we should have a bumper crowd tonight, and no doubt you guys will sit next to some idiotic collingwood supporter...there's always going to be a few. But let's hope for a good game, with good crowd behaviour.

I'm not one to gloat...so if we miracously pull an upset, i look forward to coming back here and having a good discussion on the game. If we predictably lose, I'll also pop back to have my say.


Really looking forward to tongiht

[Mr Magic]

Fair post M M.

No doubt Collingwood supporters as a collective have a bad track record. You are right, under Maguire's regime there has been an emphasis on 'cleaning' things up. Its hard to undo the past.

Anyway, we should have a bumper crowd tonight, and no doubt you guys will sit next to some idiotic collingwood supporter...there's always going to be a few. But let's hope for a good game, with good crowd behaviour.

I'm not one to gloat...so if we miracously pull an upset, i look forward to coming back here and having a good discussion on the game. If we predictably lose, I'll also pop back to have my say.


Really looking forward to tongiht

Have a good night DaVe86, but not too good.

Win lose or draw I will be interested to see your take on how the teams lined up, the tactics and where the game was won/lost.

[stinger]

.......waiting......

[DaVe86]

Geez that wasn't much of a game wasnt it??

For about 20 minutes i thought it could be a good match.

But to be honest, the game was well and truly over by quarter time. We were winning in the clearances, leading disposal (up until the 20 minute mark)...yet had only kicked 1 goal to your 3.

I knew at this stage the game was over because you guys were starting to get going. We had to capitalise early whilst we were playing alright.



I can get on here and say our injuries were a major factor...but to be honest i don't think they were.

The damage was done in the middle. Having Medhurst, Anthony and Didak would not have helped that. Davis may have since he has been our best midfielder this year in my opinion. But i don't think he would've suited that style of game. But the forwards missing would not have found any space...simply put we were not moving the ball forward well enough so their presence would not have helped...maybe kept us in it til half time at best.


I said in my preview our only hope was to win the clearances. We were 10-2 up in the first 20 minutes, then i reckon you won every clearance after that.

You outmuscled us around every stoppage.

Considering we don't have the pace or skill to run through the zone....our only hope was to make it contested footy and beat you that way. But you won the contested footy as well. Left us nothing.


That is the beauty of the saints at the moment. You can shut a team down through zoning...but if you have to you can go contested as well...very similar to Geelong. You have both facets of the game covered.


We had to win the clearances....we didnt. Mick's gameplan was similar to what i suggested in the preview. That was clog the game up....play wide and win stoppages. We did this ok for the first quarter...but after that you simply had more numbers at every stoppage.



It was an embarrassing smacking.


In terms of my preview, i got the matchups in your forward line pretty accurate. I thought Presti was quite good on Riewoldt for the first half, then Riewoldt simply out-powerd him. Presti did ok on the lead...but was beaten in 1 on 1 power contests. I still reckon Presti did alright but.

Brown did ok on Kosi, Milne beat Harry on the night.

Gardiner gave Josh a smacking. Gilbert on Cloke was a suprise. Your backline has it pretty easy considering the pressure you put on in the forward line and midfield.


Your tackles take out the arms....ours don't. When we tackle, you get the arms free and handball off. When you tackle, the arms are pinned and its holding the ball.

Thought our first gamer Sidebottom was impressive and Maxwell was good too.


For you, your midfield fired. Thought Hayes was a standout. Ball, Dal Santo, Montagna and Ray all had stacks of it.


And we were not able to contain Goddard. I thought the first quarter we did alright on him. He made a few mistakes due to the pressure applied to him. But he was too good and beat anyone we sent to him after that. He was one of your best again. As was Gilbert who has emerged a star this year. Real playmaker.


We couldnt expect to win if your gun mids got that much of the ball. I can't believe we havent developed a tagger. Atleast stop Dal Santo or something.

On Rocca...thought he tried really hard but is simply too old and slow and out of form. He made quite a few contests...and worked harder than Cloke....but he had no crumbers at his feet. Corrie and Macaffer were terrible...having Davis and Didak back will make a difference. But i reckon its unfair to be critical of Rocca considering he was outnumbered bad.


I wish the Saints all the best, they look the goods. I'd like another crack at you guys at full strength...but last night that wouldn't have made a difference. You guys simply worked harder in attack and defence. You are making teams look very ordinary. We looked bottom 4 material last night.


Hopefully you have given us a reason to lift next week against the Bluescum.


I'll stick around for further discussion.

[markp]

Your tackles take out the arms....ours don't. When we tackle, you get the arms free and handball off. When you tackle, the arms are pinned and its holding the ball.

I think that's a really impressive aspect of our game right now, particularly our ability to release the ball to advantage even when on the end of a heavy tackle.

Kudos to you Dave for your contribution and efforts, I for one hope you feel welcome to come back anytime....

[InkerSaint]

I thought Maxwell was the Pies' BOG - took a lot of great marks and was in the right place at the right time. He can hold his head up as captain, and for his performance in a milestone game.

Pendlebury took some good intercepts and had plenty of presence.

Lockyer threatened to get off the leash in the early stages too... I was yelling at the telly, "where's his tag?!" Far too dangerous not to be held accountable.

Well, for what it's worth I hope the Pies keep up the trend of teams having a win the week after meeting the Saints.

Good on you for showing up again Dave, you've provided some real spark around here, and in light of the absence of some of our more regular trolls...

All the best.