The Fox Report - Round 5

[rodgerfox]

5 zip folks. 5 zip.

Come on, own up who thought we'd be saying this at any point in the near future??


Who have we beaten? 5 AFL footy teams, that's who.

But I don't think that even matters. It's pretty much irrelevant. Who had Geelong beaten after the prelim last year? Pretty much everyone.

Didn't really matter on GF day though, did it.


Anyway, a couple of things from Friday night....

Yep, as expected Port came out to bully us. For the first time in a long time, it didn't work.

I was very proud of that. I reckon all Saints fans were.


I think we still have 2 or 3 players who aren't really up to it. Having said that, I thought we had 3 or 4 only a fortnight ago. Geary had a 'career changing' game on Friday. He got beaten up by Port. How did he handle it? Quite well I'd say.

Not only did he come back on all bandaged up, but he continued to take risks. Tried to break lines and had shots at goal. Not a single skerrick of anything to suggest he was intimidated.

I like the boy.


The Silvagni Signature is pretty clear. Anyone get frustrated at times with Sam Fisher punching the ball intently over the boundary instead of marking? I did, but then I remembered something.

About 6 or 7 years ago we played Sydney at the SCG. Gehrig lined up on Barry Hall at CHB. He had a great year in denfence that year and was runner up in our B&F.
Stephen Silvagni was commentating for Ch10 that night.

It was about 5 minutes into the game, and the ball went to a contest between Hall and Fraser. Fraser outbodied him and was left with a reasonably easy attempt to mark. So easy infact that he double grabbed it. Let it bobble as he could easily take it at the second grab. But he didn't, Hall scrambled and spolit Gehrig as he casually tried to take the second grab at the ball.
The ball spilled free and Sydney goaled.

Watching the game, I had no issue with Gehrig attempting the mark. My issue was that he should have taken it with the first grab.

However Silvagni made a comment, which as a forward when I played, I found interesting. He said something along the lines of 'Gee that was a great opportunity for Gehrig as a defender, early in the game to make a statement to Hall by fiercely punching the ball over the boundary'. He was very critical that Gehrig, as a defender didn't stamp himself on the game by smashing the ball over the boundary.

Up til then, I'd never really thought of punching the ball over the boundary line as anything more than simply a defender blindly spoling a forward.

Then I started to take notice. Good defenders like Max do this alot. Smash the ball with fierce intent over the boundary.

Anyway, we do that alot now. Fisher could have marked a few times, but he didn't. Our boys are very well drilled and clear on 'defend first, attack second'. Or something along those lines. I think this is a Silvagni Signature.


Our skills were woeful. It was very windy though, and a bit slippery.

We got smashed in the ruck and lost control over the clearances when Blake was forced to ruck. A concern. I must admit I'm surprised by the lack of concern or even acknowledgement of this by the Saints faithful.

I think I posted this last week, but Joey is almost our most important player these days. He got Cassisi on Friday night. And naturally was pretty well held - Cassisi is a very good player.

But what that did was allow Lenny to play one of the best halves of footy I've seen. What a freak. And how us Saints fans ponder what might have been had he been available in 2006.

Speaking of Lenny and his freakishness, did anyone else see him get knocked out? Once again Ch7 let the fans down and simply filmed the game. Watson didn't even pick up that King was in his tracksuit for 30 minutes! And they didn't even really acknowledge 2 things from St. Lenny...

The front-on pile driver tackle on Cassisi.

And his sickenly courageoues attack on the contest against Brogan (Brogan was quite brave too to be fair) and how he seemed to be out cold before he hit the ground. I seriously think he was KO'd. But within about 10 seconds he was up and about again!

I think Bruce and Dennis were too worried about how they were going to dazzle us with their wordsmithery and failed to acknowledge 2 of the best physical contests we've seen in ages.

All hail St. Lenny.


Milney didn't give away a stupid, weak tackle related free-kick. He tackled quite well and his pressure was good and controlled for a change.

Dal is a pro. He has his game face on these days. He's driven. Look out.


A word on Ross Lyon.....

One thing you do get from Lyon, as a supporter, is confidence that he's done his homework.
It's pleasing to know that he'll have worked out Higgins. He'll have planned a counter for Gilbee, and he'll be prepared for Johnson.

In case no one has noticed, I've been critical of Lyon over the past 2 years for the following things....

1. The ability to get our good players to play well.
2. To get some form of system from the team.
3. Recruitment.

The first 2 were disastrous. I don't think anyone can argue with that. But wow, have they been addressed and fixed!

Our good players, so far, have been very good. And consistent for 5 weeks.

And as a unit, we appear completely and utterly as one.

That is a massive credit to Lyon, the Board and Pres for publicly supporting him, and to the assistants.


From a critical perspective - we need to improve. Geelong are obviously the goods. And unless we can do what we did in the first half, for 4 quarters we will unfortunately be the runner-up for the 2nd time in 12 years.

If we can do it for 4 quarters, then Nick Reiwoldt will be the 2nd St.Kilda premiership captain in 120 years. Ross Lyon will be the 2nd St.Kilda premiership coach in 120 years, and I'll be wearing a stinky t-shirt for 12 months straight.

[kosifantutti23]

Good report.

I'd still like to see the defender mark the ball when he is totally in the clear.

[Beej]

I thought we actually tried to bully them.

Watching the game again, we targeted Krakouer even before the opening bounce.

It rattled him early on, looked like a scared little boy.

[saint vince]

We got smashed in the ruck and lost control over the clearances when Blake was forced to ruck. A concern. I must admit I'm surprised by the lack of concern or even acknowledgement of this by the Saints faithful.

Were you watching the same game as me????

I agree Blake wasn't great but I don't think even he was SMASHED. Beaten maybe but not smashed. Gardner was awesome. His tapwork for parts was sublime.


I agree with lots of what you said but to say we were smashed in the ruck and our skills were Woeful is pure negative crap. Get behind the boys who played a great game of footy against an oposition that has had our number on a ground we never win at.

[Armoooo]

How great was it to see Geary's toughness, he just has so many good qualities... I thought he stood up to the bullies better than just about anyone!

[markp]

Good report.

I'd still like to see the defender mark the ball when he is totally in the clear.

Zac did over Tredrea, he went up with a fist and came down with the ball... brilliant.

What I like most is that every player looks as if they know what they're meant to do in virtually every circumstance... perhaps Fisher was just a little over-exuberant on one or two occasions.

[saintbrat]

I think Bruce and Dennis were too worried about how they were going to dazzle us with their wordsmithery and failed to acknowledge 2 of the best physical contests we've seen in ages.

glad you watched the game this week rodgerfox-

re Dennis anyone else pick up a comment he made about a player which could be taken further by someone wanting to be pedantic?

[saintsRrising]

A word on Ross Lyon.....

One thing you do get from Lyon, as a supporter, is confidence that he's done his homework.
It's pleasing to know that he'll have worked out Higgins. He'll have planned a counter for Gilbee, and he'll be prepared for Johnson.

In case no one has noticed, I've been critical of Lyon over the past 2 years for the following things....

1. The ability to get our good players to play well.
2. To get some form of system from the team.
3. Recruitment.

The first 2 were disastrous. I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Disastrous? Where did we finish in 2008?

Now to give Lyon FULL credit over two years of hard yakka the context is that he inherited a team chock full of downhill skiers. There were quitea few talented players....but committed 4 quarters players were in the minority.

While we had some 4 quarters players like Lenny and Banger...they were in the minority.

And whenever the opposition had control of the ball the team had little idea of how to play defensively.

1. Lyon has been steadily working on it..but many players by their own admission were not taking head. Just have another listen to Roo's speech at our at the B+F a bit back.

Have listen to Ball and others this year all talking about how since Dal was dropped last year how the penny with them (not Lyon) has dropped and how THEY now understand that selection is based on commitment and delivered work-ethic rather than reputation.


2. Lyon from his first day on the job has been striving to change the way we play. this was obvious to those that could understand his vision.....whereas the others pulled out their hair and cried "chipolotto".

3. Recruitment??

A negative under Lyon....surely you jest?????

About the only negative was taking Howard...by and large every else has been excellent to bloody amazing...

Picking up Schneider, Dempster, M Gardiner, Birss, King and Charlie for their combined draft price is just about the "deal of the Century"....

The strike rate with rookies that our DEVELOPED has in such a short period been outstandingly good...
Armitage has perhaps beena touch slow to come on...but is only a second year player.

So all in all recruiting under Lyon has been better than excellent........and that is even without the fact that he removed Milne from the trade table...and "thank Lyon for that".


Lastly on recruiting under Lyon. List management has been superb with virtually every structural weakness having been addressed both in the immediate and with a stream of players coming on tap over the next few years.

HF is about the only bare area..and even there Lynch is now lookinga very likely success!!!!

But wow, have they been addressed and fixed!

Our good players, so far, have been very good. And consistent for 5 weeks.

And as a unit, we appear completely and utterly as one.

That is a massive credit to Lyon, the Board and Pres for publicly supporting him, and to the assistants.


.

Support,,,yes they have supported him as they understood what Lyon was striving to achieve.

Welcome to the Bandwagon Rodge..glad to see you jumping on board after all is obvious.

Others of us have been on board solidly since day one.

[InkerSaint]

Great report! Well reasoned and accountable. Best yet. Well done Rodg.

[evertonfc]

Another top draw report.

Thought our skills were ok rather than woeful, maybe the wet made it worse. However, our pressure - overwhelming - made sure that our skill level wasn't too much of an issue. Our tackling - 72 to 50 - was enourmous. Again.

So pleased you mentioned Geary. He was outstanding. A career-making game in my book. He looked quick; hungry; slippery. 'Only' 21 touches but a massive inlfuence on the game. Broke the lines.

I'm going to put this out there.

We have combined:

- Geelong's swift ball movement into the 50m with
- Hawthorn's game-changing rolling zone with
- Sydney's role-playing/high pressure style

...into a neat package.

We are far from the best at everything (except pressure - we now own that) but tactically, we are spot on.

More credit should go to Ross Lyon for having the courage to change his game plan. Those who say he didn't - you are kidding yourselves.

Of the three facets above, we only had one of them. Our pressure has been quite good since day one of the Lyon reign (see R1 2007), now it is relentless. But now we have embraced the two excellent qualities of Hawthorn and Geelong.

We are playing modern footy. But we borrowed to make it happen, and we're making it our own. Lyon has realised that speedy ball movement into the F50 makes goals happen, even if it isn't perfectly executed.

It's hard to defend against if you apply blanket pressure from the midfield moving forward.

We may not have the prettiest team on paper, but we've found our style. We are getting 100% from our playing group and I can't ask for more than that.

All I ask for is that we need it up for the remaining H&A + finals. That's the challenge.

[bigcarl]

Lyon has realised that speedy ball movement into the F50 makes goals happen, even if it isn't perfectly executed.

we seem a hell of a lot better in this regard and to go all the way this season we need to keep it up.

quick delivery to dominant key forwards like riewoldt and kosi is hard to beat, especially if the midfield is on top.

[evertonfc]

quick delivery to dominant key forwards like riewoldt and kosi is hard to beat, especially if the midfield is on top.

But therein lies the key.

If they don't get it, Milne and Schneider are there to mop up, with increasing support from the likes of Dal Santo and Montagna.

Getting the ball quickly to our 50 before the opposition has time to flood back - something Geelong has done since 2007 - is having just as big an impact on our season as our 2008-Hawthorn-esq rolling zone and our 2005-Sydney-esq pressure.

[SaintPM]

Can't take a report, seriously, that says we got smashed in the ruck and our skills were woeful.

Saintbrat,

Thought at the time the "kanakered" reference may be sailing a bit close to the wind, especially if you take any note of the wikipedia definition in Australia.

[Teflon]

More credit should go to Ross Lyon for having the courage to change his game plan. Those who say he didn't - you are kidding yourselves.

strange Ive heard Lyon suggest they tweaked some things - all great coaches can...the failures...well they usually move on...

I'm not sure Lyons changed any of the fundamentals of his game plan - I saw us play this way (briefly) early in his tenure....I was excited then when Parkin noted he'd not seen a Saints side tacklelike that ever - difference is we see it every week now cause the playing group now GET IT and have bought in. It is the best type of re-inforcement you can have - do as I say and we will win...and we have. Perhaps less to do with game plan and more simply a coach and a team finally just coming together - that takes time, it was always going to but many just didnt see it early (and that includes the threads author - who,to his credit, is now backing up faster than an Italian Tank during WW2).

[saintsRrising]

More credit should go to Ross Lyon for having the courage to change his game plan. Those who say he didn't - you are kidding yourselves.

strange Ive heard Lyon suggest they tweaked some things - all great coaches can...the failures...well they usually move on...

I'm not sure Lyons changed any of the fundamentals of his game plan - I saw us play this way (briefly) early in his tenure....I was excited then when Parkin noted he'd not seen a Saints side tacklelike that ever - difference is we see it every week now cause the playing group now GET IT and have bought in. It is the best type of re-inforcement you can have - do as I say and we will win...and we have. Perhaps less to do with game plan and more simply a coach and a team finally just coming together - that takes time, it was always going to but many just didnt see it early (and that includes the threads author - who,to his credit, is now backing up faster than an Italian Tank during WW2).

Yes Lyon has stated that we are basically playing the same as since mid-way through last year.

But hey what would he know...he is only the coach

Ball has said in an interview is that the difference is that the players are now engaged and are committed to our game plan and work ethic. But hey what would he know...he is just a player....

Ditto for Dal......ditto for Mini...

[Thinline]

Port were insipid and soft at the ball and the man.

Bully us?

No sur what game you were watching?

Smashed in the ruck?

Show me some stats.

[saint66au]

We have combined:

- Geelong's swift ball movement into the 50m with
- Hawthorn's game-changing rolling zone with
- Sydney's role-playing/high pressure style

Id add to that Geelongs obsession with sharing the ball around ("spread" I think is the trendy term for it).

One other thing. The one H&A game Geelong lost last year was because of the intense tackling pressure Collingwood put on them. Hassled and hassled them and NEVER gave them a chance to flick the ball around like they love to do. In short, the style of play that we are currently doing better than anyone just happens to be Geelong's achilles heel

[rodgerfox]

Welcome to the Bandwagon Rodge..glad to see you jumping on board after all is obvious.

Others of us have been on board solidly since day one.

I'm not on any bandwagon.

The concept of a bandwagon suggests you are one side of the fence or the other - and generally stay there. To me, that's narrow minded and foolish.

I call it as I see it. Always have, and always will.


Right now, I see it as quite good.

[ThePunter]

Rodger is on the right track. As much as I like Blake, the game turned into a 50/50 contest once King was out and Blake had to ruck. Up until that point we had completed obliterated them. But the game was in hand, so it may be a bit of a chicken and egg argument. You cannot keep the pedal down for 100 quarters in a season: it's not human nature. One of those times when 11 goals up, you are going to replace the cue in the rack.

Geary's last three weeks have been outstanding.

[Beej]

More credit should go to Ross Lyon for having the courage to change his game plan. Those who say he didn't - you are kidding yourselves.

By this I'm sure you're referring to the amount of pressure we're putting on sides.

Here is Stevie Baker's take on it...

"The (frenzied pressure) just seems to be happening. It seems like the whole team is doing it these days and it's infectious.

"The boys do it in the forward line and it puts on such pressure, then the boys do it in the midfield, and then it flows through to the backs.

"You don't want to let your teammates down by not doing it."

Game plan hasn't changed. Attitude, confidence and intensity has. They really want one of those medallions.

[rodgerfox]

For those who suddenly love stats, we were beaten in the hitouts 45-29.

Gardiner had 15 of them, and our mids surprisingly had 7 of them.

Blake had 5.


Brogan had 26.

We were smashed in the ruck. But more importantly I felt we lost contol at that point. We still have the ability to outscore a team like Port when we aren't in complete control, but against a top 4 or top 2 team I doubt we will.

Again for the stats lovers, Port and us both had an average of 30% disposal errors.

To be on par with a team that you beat by 11 goals in terms of your disposal mistakes, isn't really ideal.

But as I said, the wind and slippery conditions are a fair excuse.

[markp]

Rodger is on the right track. As much as I like Blake, he game turned into a 50/50 contest once King was out and Blake had to ruck. Up until that point we had completed obliterated them. But the game was in hand, so it may be a bit of a chicken and egg argument. You cannot keep the pedal down for 100 quarters in a season: it's not human nature. One of those times when 11 goals up, you are going to replace the cue in the rack.

Geary's last three weeks have been outstanding.

Yup, but 'smashed' we were not.... and Gardiner was being preserved.

But rodge knows that.

[saint66au]

For those who suddenly love stats, we were beaten in the hitouts 45-29.

Gardiner had 15 of them, and our mids surprisingly had 7 of them.

Blake had 5.


Brogan had 26.

We were smashed in the ruck. But more importantly I felt we lost contol at that point. We still have the ability to outscore a team like Port when we aren't in complete control, but against a top 4 or top 2 team I doubt we will.

Again for the stats lovers, Port and us both had an average of 30% disposal errors.

To be on par with a team that you beat by 11 goals in terms of your disposal mistakes, isn't really ideal.

But as I said, the wind and slippery conditions are a fair excuse.

WOuld love to see the *gulp* hitouts to advantage" stats tho..some of Gardi's palming work to Lenny in particular was sublime

The mids got their ruck stats from our increasing "third man up" tactic..

[rodgerfox]

WOuld love to see the *gulp* hitouts to advantage" stats tho..some of Gardi's palming work to Lenny in particular was sublime

The mids got their ruck stats from our increasing "third man up" tactic..

The first half we rucked really well. Gardiner in particular.

His ruckwork was very good indeed. The 2nd half, when he was being 'rested', Brogan completely dominated.

The 3rd man up tactic is an interesting one. It's definately something we're focussing on.

[vacuous space]

Again for the stats lovers, Port and us both had an average of 30% disposal errors.

To be on par with a team that you beat by 11 goals in terms of your disposal mistakes, isn't really ideal.

But as I said, the wind and slippery conditions are a fair excuse.

Pro-Stats again?

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 49,00.html

62 clangers, 29 of them free kicks. 33 disposal clangers from 394 disposals. That's 8.4% disposal clangers. 24% were ineffective.

Port had 59 clangers, 19 of them free kicks. 40 disposal clangers from 358 disposals is 11.2%. 31% of their disposals were ineffective.

We were much better with the ball than they were.

We won the contested ball (+14) and dominated possession (+36). We had 72 tackles to their 50. We limited them to just 37 inside 50s and 11 scores while scoring 27 times from 52 inside 50s ourselves. Port actually won the clearances (-2), partly due to their second half ruck dominance. It didn't do them much good though. It was, overall, a dominant performance, which is reflected on the stat sheet.