Moorabbin

[Mr Magic]

CS, I find it really interesting that you are continually scathing about the Saints (your team) and this Seaford training base and yet over on Demonland you just ignore the fact that MFC (now your second team) still hasn't come to terms with Casey (your true love) and signed the agreement?
So far MFC have taken whatever Casey have offered without committing anything really substantial back. You would think that if it was a 'true partnership' the goodwill would be flowing both ways. So far MFC seems to be 'talking the talk', without 'walking the walk'.

Why cut MFC so much slack in comparison to StKFC?

Oh and btw, my opinion only, I find it somewhat uncomfortable that you felt the need to buy a MFC membership purely on the basis of their alliance with Casey.
Couldn't you have just bought a Casey membership without feeling the need to financially help one of our opposition?

I’m not scathing about my team – I love the Saints.

I do, however, have some reservations about some corporate decisions by St KFC. Frankston Park was a poor decision. Belvedere Park is an abysmal decision.

MFC is now my second team because they are establishing a training base in my local area, are aligned with my local VFL team and are embracing the community where I live. Pretty simple really.

MFC hasn’t in fact taken anything from Casey at this stage (unless you think training on the Scorpions' oval is "taking", but they are putting back into the local community already. They have already appointed a community development worker, are running clinics for primary school kids and working with local clubs etc. It has only commenced in a small way so far.

I’m not sure why you feel uncomfortable about me buying an MFC membership. They are a struggling team, and there were plenty of people on Saintsational a couple of years ago who were prepared to fork out for a North Melbourne membership to help out in their time of need. No comments at that time from you that I recall telling Sainters not to do it because NM is a competitor.

But the reason I’m buying it is, principally, because of the move to Casey – not because they’re struggling.
And, as far as your suggestion to me to buy a Casey membership goes, I’ve bought one every year since the Scorpions moved to Casey in 2006.

So why raise the spectre of 'struggling club' even when it has nothing to do with the situation.
As for my not criticising NM - I bought one of theirs when they were struggling to survive - MFC are not in that situation this year so it doesn't even enter the equation.

You can try and justify it to yourself as much as you like, the simple fact is that you now financially support MFC (our competitor) because Chris Connolly has convinced the current MFC Board that they'll be better off by having an alignment with teh City of Casey.
DOn't kid yourself that they've made the decision to move some oif their training out to Casey for the benefit of Casey. Their decision (quite correctly) is to do about what's best for MFC with Casey's interests an afterthought.

As for 'putting into the community' by running clinics, what do you think AFL Clubs have been doing for decades? ALl that's happened is that MFC have moved their community clinics from where they were doing them previously to the City of Casey so that they can have the appearance of 'doing something' in the area.

Again you don 'the rose-coloured glasses' at anything that comes out of the 'side of the mouth' of MFC officials whilst you continuously question minutely any decision StKFC makes over this issue.

Why are you in self-denial over this?
It is patently obvious that you wear your 'City of Casey badge' on your sleeve well above your StKFC badge.

This is not new -it's been going on since the Saints had the temerity not to choose Casey.
What is new is your new found love for MFC, just because they've decided to come to Casey (because they couldn't find anywhere else?). Why not just admit it instead of trying to hide it?

Zebraman who is in a similar position as you (except in the opposite direction) admits freely that he joined up on SS because he is a Sandy supporter and we are now aligned with Sandy. He makes no bones about it - he is a Sandy person first and foremost.

What's the problem in admiting where your true allegiances lie?

[matrix]

…….. the planning permits were approved for Belvedere Park 2 months ago and tenders for the build have gone out. It's done get over it move on. I'm not argueing I prefer Belvedere Park over Moorabbin I don't but that doesn't mean it;s not happening. All the council hurdles have been jumped at Belvedere Park. Stop spreading made up BS you have the everything confused.

So the permits being approved and the tenders going out a couple of weeks ago is just the saints having a laugh?? The leveling of the land being done was a April fools joke? Whats happening then? Show me the evidence or at least tell us why.. Is this your opinion (which is fine) or are getting this from somewhere (which is what you are insinuating), I find it hard to believe based on the wrong information you have posted on in this thread about what has happened with the project in the past.

loyal, either spill some goss
or accept that the tender is out and leveling has begun.

When I read the comments about tenders having been called so quickly after the planning permit was issued, I was dubious. When I read comments about levelling having begun I was perplexed – the site is as flat as a tack to start with.

So I took a quick drive down this morning to check it out. There’s no sign of any action whatsoever on the site where the Saints facility is proposed. There is, however, a bit of digging out going on at an overland flow path that traverses the site.

And there are a couple of recently delivered site huts, but they’re not in the area proposed to be leased to the Saints (maybe site huts for some other work being undertaken by the Council at the reserve?).

This link gives a bit of a clue to the layout of the site:

http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/library ... 20Info.pdf

(go to page 51 for an aerial photo)

And just to demonstrate that the above quotes are at best poor efforts at spin, and at worst deliberate attempts to mislead, this is what CEO, Michael Nettlefold, posted on saintscentral on 13 April (ie less than a week ago):

“Our Elite Training Facility in Seaford is coming along nicely. The plans have been approved, we are currently finalising the design with Stratcorp, our Project Consultant and we expect to put these plans out to tender within the next two to three weeks. The funding package from the AFL, Frankston City Council and Victorian State Government is in place and we are on target for a mid 2010 delivery.â€

[casey scorp]

CS, ….. over on Demonland you just ignore the fact that MFC (now your second team) still hasn't come to terms with Casey (your true love) and signed the agreement?

Zebraman who is in a similar position as you (except in the opposite direction) admits freely that he joined up on SS because he is a Sandy supporter and we are now aligned with Sandy. He makes no bones about it - he is a Sandy person first and foremost.

What's the problem in admiting where your true allegiances lie?

I’m intrigued that you’ll stalk me over on demonland, but then amused that you will blatantly ignore parts of what I say there and misrepresent other parts.

Over on demonland I have made no secret of the fact that I am a Saints supporter, which you would know given you’ve read my posts there (particularly the one you have partially referred to about MFC being my second team, but you left out the bit about me being a St Kilda supporter).

I joined up on demonland because MFC is aligned to my local VFL team and is moving out into my local community. I’ve made it pretty clear there that I’m a St KFC and a Scorpions supporter.

Just for the record, so that others can see how you misrepresent the situation, here’s what I posted on demonland:

I grew up near Sandy, so I used to support the local team - the Zebs.

I moved away 30 years ago, but still kept an interest in Sandy.

I barrack for the Saints, so once St KFC aligned with the Scorps, I barracked for Springvale.

When the Scorps moved to Casey, I thought it was fantastic - my aligned VFL team in my local area. Then (for a brief while) there was even the prospect of St KFC moving to Casey Fields and it was too good to be true. It was (too good to be true).

When St KFC broke the alignment with the Scorps to run with Sandy, I kept my allegiance to my local VFL team.

With the MFC alignment, I'm now also taking a keen interest in Melbourne. MFC is now my second team because of the alignment. Because MFC is having a training base at Casey, and getting so involved in the local community, I have bought a MFC membership as well and I'm going to Demons games (as well Saints & Scorps).

I went to Sandy last weekend, and there was no doubting my support for the Scorps over Sandy - despite my particular interest in some of the opposition players.

The upshot, in VFL terms, is:

1/ I barrack for my local VFL team - the Casey Scorpions
2/ I would support the VFL team my AFL club is aligned to (unless it is inconsistent with rule 1)
3/ Welcome to Casey all you MFC supporters.........we're happy to see you at Casey Fields.

[casey scorp]

what the f*** would i know? im interstate!
if someone says leveling has begun you would expect them to either:
a) get the facts right and SEE that leveling has begun
or
b) get the facts right and SEE that leveling has been done.

Sorry matrixcutter - I just thought that you were a part of the sheep herd.

You are correct - you should be able to rely on what people say. If someone makes a categoric statement that levelling has begun you would expect them to have their facts right.

Once again my apologies - I now understand that you were simply relying on blatantly incorrect comments made by another poster.

[esaint66]

seaford is not going to happen, never was and never will.
now you can all call me names, but the fact/facts remain/s.
it will not happen and will not ever happen.
to be honest, i really dont care what anyone thinks on the issue.
seaford will not happen. moorabbin will happen.

Ok i've saved this in my documents with your name and the date you posted this, when the move goes ahead your head might be going with them.

No point in the head going... theres no brain inside it!

laugh all you like. the only thing funny are your ethics esaint66,.

Which ethics are you pointing out there ???

[matrix]

what the f*** would i know? im interstate!
if someone says leveling has begun you would expect them to either:
a) get the facts right and SEE that leveling has begun
or
b) get the facts right and SEE that leveling has been done.

Sorry matrixcutter - I just thought that you were a part of the sheep herd.

You are correct - you should be able to rely on what people say. If someone makes a categoric statement that levelling has begun you would expect them to have their facts right.

Once again my apologies - I now understand that you were simply relying on blatantly incorrect comments made by another poster.

all good mate.
and yeah id be making sure there was work going on at the site AND find out that its work for the said proposal i was thinking of.
but hey, easy mistake to make..especially if there is work in the vacinity.

<<being interstate, im having trouble actually following what goes on, where we are, where we were, where we will be in the future, who we are alligned with (i know its sandy ) who we were alligned with (casy ) and who we will be with next year!.
it friggin changes so much over there......

[Mr Magic]

CS, ….. over on Demonland you just ignore the fact that MFC (now your second team) still hasn't come to terms with Casey (your true love) and signed the agreement?

Zebraman who is in a similar position as you (except in the opposite direction) admits freely that he joined up on SS because he is a Sandy supporter and we are now aligned with Sandy. He makes no bones about it - he is a Sandy person first and foremost.

What's the problem in admiting where your true allegiances lie?

I’m intrigued that you’ll stalk me over on demonland, but then amused that you will blatantly ignore parts of what I say there and misrepresent other parts.

Over on demonland I have made no secret of the fact that I am a Saints supporter, which you would know given you’ve read my posts there (particularly the one you have partially referred to about MFC being my second team, but you left out the bit about me being a St Kilda supporter).

I joined up on demonland because MFC is aligned to my local VFL team and is moving out into my local community. I’ve made it pretty clear there that I’m a St KFC and a Scorpions supporter.

Just for the record, so that others can see how you misrepresent the situation, here’s what I posted on demonland:

I grew up near Sandy, so I used to support the local team - the Zebs.

I moved away 30 years ago, but still kept an interest in Sandy.

I barrack for the Saints, so once St KFC aligned with the Scorps, I barracked for Springvale.

When the Scorps moved to Casey, I thought it was fantastic - my aligned VFL team in my local area. Then (for a brief while) there was even the prospect of St KFC moving to Casey Fields and it was too good to be true. It was (too good to be true).

When St KFC broke the alignment with the Scorps to run with Sandy, I kept my allegiance to my local VFL team.

With the MFC alignment, I'm now also taking a keen interest in Melbourne. MFC is now my second team because of the alignment. Because MFC is having a training base at Casey, and getting so involved in the local community, I have bought a MFC membership as well and I'm going to Demons games (as well Saints & Scorps).

I went to Sandy last weekend, and there was no doubting my support for the Scorps over Sandy - despite my particular interest in some of the opposition players.

The upshot, in VFL terms, is:

1/ I barrack for my local VFL team - the Casey Scorpions
2/ I would support the VFL team my AFL club is aligned to (unless it is inconsistent with rule 1)
3/ Welcome to Casey all you MFC supporters.........we're happy to see you at Casey Fields.

Thank you for the inew nterpretation of stalking - apparently you now believe that by reading your posts on Demonland I'm stalking you over there?

The issue I raised was not your apparent 'love' of Melbourne as your 'second team' but your inablilty to criticize them for their apparent lack of actually signing this 'deal' with your 'first true love' - the City of Casey, whilst at the same time your continual belittlemenst and criticism of the Saints because they chose not to come to Casey.

That is no misinterpretation on my part - it is a factual representation of your post.

Which part of 'Melbourne (now your second team)' is a misrepresentation of your post(s)? That accusation is complete and utter hogwash - maybe I've touched a raw nerve with you?

Do you support the Saints over Casey + MFC?

[casey scorp]

Thank you for the inew nterpretation of stalking - apparently you now believe that by reading your posts on Demonland I'm stalking you over there?

The issue I raised was not your apparent 'love' of Melbourne as your 'second team' but your inablilty to criticize them for their apparent lack of actually signing this 'deal' with your 'first true love' - the City of Casey, whilst at the same time your continual belittlemenst and criticism of the Saints because they chose not to come to Casey.

That is no misinterpretation on my part - it is a factual representation of your post.

Which part of 'Melbourne (now your second team)' is a misrepresentation of your post(s)? That accusation is complete and utter hogwash - maybe I've touched a raw nerve with you?

Do you support the Saints over Casey + MFC?

It is really very simple. My support is:

No 1 – St Kilda (it has been for 50 years)
No 2 – Casey Scorpions (my local VFL team)
No 3 – MFC (aligned to my VFL team, and moving into my local community).

None of my posts can be taken as a criticism of my team, nor a subjugation of my support for the Saints in favour of any other team.

I do, however, take issue with some of the club’s corporate decisions. I, and others (obviously), don’t agree with the decision to relocate to Belvedere Park. We are entitled to express those views, and the reason why BP is a bad decision.

Other people, who support the decision to relocate to the BP backwater, attack the person rather than the issue. It is the sign of people whose case has no intrinsic merit. If they’re not attacking the person, they’re making up stories (like the levelling work has actually started on site). Thus the credibility of the sheep steadily erode.

I’m not as definite as Loyal who believes that BP will never happen. If the people in control are so determined, then they will proceed in the face of problems. Although, I must concede, that they aborted the Frankston Park folly (although it did take a $5 million cost blowout).

BP will proceed, if only to save face, unless there is a dramatic change in the view of the Board.

[Solar]

casey just curious

if the issue of the saints in casey was not the case, would you be as critical of the decisions and timeline?

From all those down frankston way, BP is actually not a backwater but a growing suburb. The Park is not overly developed and thus there is less planning issues to deal with.

As long as they keep it in budget it will cost us less then 2 million.

I personally can't think of anywhere better. As long as it's done on budget and within the timeline I don't think we have much to jump up and down about.

keep punching but leave casey out of any st kilda debates please because we have all moved on now

[Mr Magic]

Fantastic CS.
Just maybe the Saints may have appreciated, in these harsh economic times, you donating that second membership to them rather than to one of their opposition clubs?

[casey scorp]

casey just curious

if the issue of the saints in casey was not the case, would you be as critical of the decisions and timeline?

From all those down frankston way, BP is actually not a backwater but a growing suburb. The Park is not overly developed and thus there is less planning issues to deal with.

As long as they keep it in budget it will cost us less then 2 million.

I personally can't think of anywhere better. As long as it's done on budget and within the timeline I don't think we have much to jump up and down about.

keep punching but leave casey out of any st kilda debates please because we have all moved on now

If you look at any of my posts over the last year or so you will see that I haven't advocated Casey as a location for the Saints. It simply isn't an option, and I don't raise it. That's right----I DON'T RAISE IT. So given that I don't introduce Casey into the St Kilda debates, it is others that are doing it. I'll respond if others raise it, but I don't raise it. I'm not sure that I can be much clearer. If you doubt this, you can go back & look through threads over the past 12 months and see if you can find any thread where I have raised Casey. You won't find one, so let me save you the time.

I can assure you that I moved on from a Casey destination for the Saints as soon as it was no longer an option. That was about 12 months ago.

As far as the merits of BP are concerned:

"BP a growing area" - you can't be serious. I really wonder whether some people check their facts before they post (most recent example - levelling has commenced on site!!). The suburb of BP was established and fully developed quite a few decades ago, and the BP Primary School claims Robert Harvey as a former student. It must be very old because no-one remembers him being in secondary school - much less primary school.

"The Park is not overly developed and thus there is less planning issues to deal with." I'd agree that the park is not overly developed.

"As long as they keep it in budget it will cost us less then 2 million." Actually, if they keep it within budget, it will cost us less than $1.5 million. Is this an acceptance that our commitment of "$1.43 + any extra" is already on the way up?

"within the timeline" We'll have a pretty fair indication whether we'll even start on time within just a few weeks.

[casey scorp]

Fantastic CS.
Just maybe the Saints may have appreciated, in these harsh economic times, you donating that second membership to them rather than to one of their opposition clubs?

I already pay for 3 at St Kilda.

[casey scorp]

From all those down frankston way, BP is actually not a backwater but a growing suburb.

"BP a growing area" - you can't be serious. I really wonder whether some people check their facts before they post (most recent example - levelling has commenced on site!!). The suburb of BP was established and fully developed quite a few decades ago, and the BP Primary School claims Robert Harvey as a former student. It must be very old because no-one remembers him being in secondary school - much less primary school.

A quick bit of further research shows that BP is not only a low-lying backwater, but that it is an older suburb:

“In 1930 agents attempted to sub-divide the low lying swampy land around East Seaford, but failed owing to the prevailing financial depression. Not until 1950, did consistent sales of land begin and after 1956 the area developed rapidly. …(the) Belvedere Park Primary School opened on 26th April 1966.â€

[Mr Magic]

Fantastic CS.
Just maybe the Saints may have appreciated, in these harsh economic times, you donating that second membership to them rather than to one of their opposition clubs?

I already pay for 3 at St Kilda.

So why not 4 if you've got spare cash you want to donate to AFL Footy?

[Solar]

currum downs which butts onto seaford was explained as

"....In late 2006, RealEstatesource compiled a list of the top ten performing suburbs in Melbourne, Carrum Downs was ranked fourth with property showing a 94.4% median value increase since the real estate market's 'peak' of 2001.[1] In January 2008, the 'Your Investment Property' periodical published an article on Carrum Downs, predicting an increased demand for residential and commercial property in the area,[3] following the completion of the Eastlink project in June 2008.
"

prediciting a damand in the area. hmm sounds like a growth area....

It's only 36kms from melbourne

a couple of km's from frankston north

5 kms max from the seaside

next door to a growth area in carrum downs
________________________________________
anyway thats just a 5 min google search

I don't really care where it is, to be honest moorabin was a bugger to get to for us eastern subs people. At least for the bayside it's just further down the coast.

[casey scorp]

Let's use contemporary figures.

REIV figures for the period to Dec 2008 (from March 2004 as a base) show the following % increases (interestingly there is no Moorabbin):

21% - Carrum Downs
32% - Seaford
48% - Bentleigh

If you want to use real estate property value increases as the determinant of where to locate, then (of the two alternatives of redeveloping Linton Street or reloacting to Seaford) I think you'd better stick to Linton Street rather than look towards Belvedere Park.

[Solar]

Let's use contemporary figures.

REIV figures for the period to Dec 2008 (from March 2004 as a base) show the following % increases (interestingly there is no Moorabbin):

21% - Carrum Downs
32% - Seaford
48% - Bentleigh

If you want to use real estate property value increases as the determinant of where to locate, then (of the two alternatives of redeveloping Linton Street or reloacting to Seaford) I think you'd better stick to Linton Street rather than look towards Belvedere Park.

still not a backwater from where I see it

you keep jumping up and down about how bad this development is. All I see is that is negative at present is that one person said that had started leveling when they hadn't. Stop jumping at shadows and enjoy watching casey run around.

[Bernard Shakey]

From the Sunday Age a couple of weeks ago.

Quarterly REVI figures to 31 March 2009:

Moorabbin -2.8%;
Bentleigh -3.8%;
Seaford 3.8%;
Carrum Downs 4.6%.

And I' against Belvedere Park.

[nads]

From all those down frankston way, BP is actually not a backwater but a growing suburb.

"BP a growing area" - you can't be serious. I really wonder whether some people check their facts before they post (most recent example - levelling has commenced on site!!). The suburb of BP was established and fully developed quite a few decades ago, and the BP Primary School claims Robert Harvey as a former student. It must be very old because no-one remembers him being in secondary school - much less primary school.

A quick bit of further research shows that BP is not only a low-lying backwater, but that it is an older suburb:

“In 1930 agents attempted to sub-divide the low lying swampy land around East Seaford, but failed owing to the prevailing financial depression. Not until 1950, did consistent sales of land begin and after 1956 the area developed rapidly. …(the) Belvedere Park Primary School opened on 26th April 1966.â€

[spert]

The real home of St. Kilda is St. Kilda!

It's St Kilda and NOT St. Kilda

There, their, they're!!!

[GrumpyOne]

The real home of St. Kilda is St. Kilda!

It's St Kilda and NOT St. Kilda

There, their, they're!!!

Tomatos or Tomatoes?

[ace]

ALL THIS FUSS OVER SO LITTLE

Check out drawing TP010 at http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/library ... 20Info.pdf

An indoor sports hall = basketball court
A wet area recovery = wading pool
A gym = a gym
A boardroom = players & coaches meeting room
A football oval
Doctor, strapper and allied health rooms
Administrative offices
Parking 100 spaces

This could be built anywhere that has an oval with a bit of spare land for the building in one corner.

[ace]

What use will this facility have for the local community - somewhere between zero and ziltch.

There is only one reason for it to be built at Belvedere and that is Frankston Council putting in some money in return for the publicity it will gain from having an AFL club based there.

There is nothing to be gained by the St Kilda football club that could not be obtained anywhere else in Melbourne except for Frankston's monetary contribution.

There are no social facilites attached to this training faciilty and it is located in a quiet surburban area well away from main roads and other activities= LOST.
The location does not provide opportunities for other means of revenue for the club.
The club needed this facility to be the hub of its' local community.
Something that would attract new supporters and interest in the club.

Short term gain, long term opportunity lost.

[ausfatcat]

Thanks for the plans Ace very interesting I am glad they amended them to show more saints stuff thou.


And imagine going to that primary school...

[Munga]

For someone out of the loop living in Adelaide, can anyone give me a summary of what's happened with our home base? Where are we moving to, or are we staying at Moorabbin?