Its a very good question MM.Mr Magic wrote:So we come back to the question I raised in another thread on this topic:-Shaggy wrote:Fair enough. But Fish, Chips, BJ, Monty, Gram, Ball, Dal, Roo, Kosi, Gilbert, Mini, Gwilt, Raph and X were not mature footballers under GT.saintsRrising wrote:I agree with much of that...but I am not sure what you mean by your first line?Shaggy wrote: 16 of our 23 were GT years.
Max & X are also in our best 22 to come.
The side has IMO always been planned for 2008-10 when the core would be at its peak.
But RL deserves credit because in 3 drafts he has filled holes.
More importantly he now has the players playing to their best ability and showing the improvement they should be showing.
Thats all anyone really should ask from a coach.
As for the future who cares.
I doubt our kids now will win us a flag ... our time is now.
Of our current 22
St KILDA
B: Ray, Blake, Dawson
HB: Geary, S Fisher, Goddard
C: Gram, Ball, Dal Santo
HF: Milne, Riewoldt, Schneider
F: Hayes, Koschitzke, Gilbert
FOLL: Gardiner, Jones, Montagna
INT: Baker, McQualter, Gwilt, King
EMG: Begley, McEvoy, Eddy
6 are pre-GT
7 are post- GT
9 are from the GT years...though one in Mini has been recycled
Now 3 years later they are.
If you do not understand what diff that makes
Its the core of our success.
What constitutes a good/great/bad list?
Shaggy you've just stated that 14 players listed above were not mature footballers under Gt and 3 years later under RL they are.
So are you now saying that your definition of a good list includes 'developing and/or maturing players?
If so who gets credit for their development or increasing maturity? The Coach who originally picked them or the Coach under whose 'reign' they actually developed and/or maturesd?
You see this is the problem I have with the boring GT/RL argument.
Those that support RL seem to have a problem crediting GT with any kudos for his role as coach (notwithstanding that he may have had faults too)
and
Those that support GT seem to have a problem crediting RL with any kudos for his role as coach (notwithstanding that he may have faults too)
It is that 'blind defense of their respective heores' that, IMO, causes these threads to turn into slanging matches.
IMO again, it is nonsensical to try and put the proposition that the 2006 List was good/bad until you define exactly what you mean by good/bad?
All those heaping scorn on RL by claiming he inherited a 'great list' conveniently ignore that prior to the Hodge/Ball/Judd draft, all those players were 'gifted' to GT.
That includes
Roo
Kosi
Bakes
Milne
Max
and all those champions who have since retired.
RL never had the benefit of Burke, Loewe, Thompson, Peckett, Powell, Voss, Jones, Gehrig and even Robert Harvey that GT enjoyed.
In fact, one could mount an argument that GT had a much better list in 2004/2005 than what he had himself in 2006, let alone the list in 2007.
How 'good' was the list GT got himself when he was appointed coach?
And what differnece does it make?
If it helps the anti-RL people sleep at night knowing that they can rationalize our current success (2009) by attributing as much of the success to GT then quite frankly, good luck to them.
As long as they don't go around trying to 'white-ant' the team because RL is the coach then I don't give a sh1t. But when they denigrate the team's achievements in a stupid attempt to rationalize their own belief that the current coach is no good, then I reserve the right to enter the debate.
Unfortunately if too many follow my example (of entering the debate) we end up with these endless circular slanging matches.
RL is delivering players playing to the best of their ability.
I don't think you can ask more of a coach.
Most of the key players developed under GT ... of course he should get some credit for where we are today.
I wouldn't dismiss GT/Waldron/whoevers decision to tank against the trend ... it has got us where we are today and delivered the hawks a flag because they copied.
IMO we are lucky to have RL and GT (before) ... its going to lead to a flag IMO ... as to who is better ... who cares .... RL is getting the best out of the list ... even if Barassi was in charge in his prime he can't do more than get the best out of the list.
But IMO RL was delivered the nucleus of a premiership team ... FFS we nearly won a flag in 2005 when they were kids ... we still need to deliver it ... and RL has them flying at their best ... thats all you can expect.
