Are we ALL starting to warm to Lyon yet?

[Teflon]

I know you'd be hurting after that win - it cuts deep to see Lyon and the team start to gel. Theres an obvious good atmosphere between coach/players and that would burn for someone who doesnt really follow their club.... someone who merely revels in the misery of defeats so they get to scream "I told you we were shyte".

As a little Dodgy fox puppet, tin rattler, simpleton, twit, squib and dopey shyte I may need some further explanation from the Saintsational Forum Discussion Leader.

You are clearly unhappy that I criticised RL when the team didn't win, didn't gel and there wasn't an obvious good atmosphere between coach & players. It's true, I was unhappy with that situation.

While the team didn't win, didn't gel and there wasn't an obvious good atmosphere between coach & players you applauded RLs performance. Even after he admitted publicly that he had been getting it wrong.

So you tell me... who wanted the team to win and who was happy when they were losing?





And as for writing "its my royboy spirit". What a f'n laugh. Fitzroy died of apathy. If St Kilda folded I would never follow another team. Never.
sl*t.

Lets tone the language down shall we? - there are kids (and Dodgy) who read this forum also. Clear sign of desperation when you resort to that level of abuse. Dissapointing also...you were doing so well up to that point...

Follow again please....there's a good lad.

Please do try and understand that what you call Ross Lyons "failures" complete with YOUR PERCEPTIONS of his short comings AND the players I call learning......yes bizarre isnt it...that a new coach would take time to turn over a third of the list, revamp the fitness and conditioning structures (training services dept if you are corporately inclined as per your previous love interest...), revamp his coaching team and start to build chemistry with the team.....most on here understand this takes time. Only the fools are left stumbling round in the dark clutching pathetic, snide cheap shots against Lyon cause they got it wrong and now in every post resist any form of credit to what the coach has obviously been building since day 1.

Lyon admitted he got it all wrong did he? - I heard Lyon admit he tweaked the game plan....far cry from saying "I got it all wrong" and intimating he threw out his entire game plan and football ethos. Id suggest a little 'gilding the lily' has got you by the curlys again..but you've always done that when not addressing the topic havent you Dodg......I mean....why havent you addressed my previous post in terms of the concept being discussed in this thread?..... (dont tell me you again dont understand???)

You need to suck it up grasshopper - YOU GOT IT WRONG. The guy can coach (and yes I recall you very much questioning that.....quite Rodger-like yet again.......you two need to get your log-in times straight... ).
Its not so bad - breathe-in and say "I was wrong".

Litte history lesson re: Fitzroy from those who know (and not pretend drama queens poncing round in their lounge screaming "I was there....I tried to save everyone...." ). Fitzroy did not die of apathy - truth be known Fitzroys debt situation was less critical than Carltons recent one.....one minor difference...in Fitzroys case the then VFL would not agree to guarantee their loan so they could continue to trade (its called an "expansion agenda" in the old language... ). Carlton can be corrupt as the day is long and as broke also and I gurantee the AFL will prop them up forever. Big difference. A-pathetic is how Id describe your support for my team the saints .

So there you have it my little pet stalker - you can once again go off on a tangent, rambling like a half-@assed mad man, armed with pubescent logic, tons of false perception, a dash of over inflated self importance and a heady shot of hatred for all things Ross Lyon.

Least your consistent.

[Teflon]

You are clearly unhappy that I criticised RL when the team didn't win, didn't gel and there wasn't an obvious good atmosphere between coach & players. It's true, I was unhappy with that situation.

When did this occur?

Could you please link the required corroborated evidence - or is this something you have just assumed to suit your constant and increasingly irrelevant critisism of the current coach?

You are making a very strong allegation there. Please back it up or desist from posting tripe.

Mate i its time you ventured over to the "I was Wrong" thread and cleanse your soul.

Your increased justification of your stance on Lyon is making you look as though you care for your internet persona's ego more than the team.

Its no use Joffa - Ive been trying to help this lost soul for a while...I fear hes indeed a poor mans Dodgy (very similar posting language I might add...).

[clarky449]

First time i've clicked on this post for quite some time, I new this is what i would see, happening all too much fellas

[vacuous space]

First time i've clicked on this post for quite some time, I new this is what i would see, happening all too much fellas

3 page rule. Once a thread hits the fourth page, it's run it's course. Except for the sacred cow thread. That never got old.

[bigcarl]

3 page rule. Once a thread hits the fourth page, it's run it's course. Except for the sacred cow thread. That never got old.

"the teflon banning" was a doozy, too. ran to 16 pages before it was locked and consigned to history.

[TheOptimist]

Ross has done a great job to reuild the team as he wants it. This combined with the moves off field, makes me more excited than 2004.

in 2004 we were too young. Now with recruits that are ready... we are ready.

[saint66au]

A couple of posts have been deleted here for langauge and a warning issued

[Saints43]

You are clearly unhappy that I criticised RL when the team didn't win, didn't gel and there wasn't an obvious good atmosphere between coach & players. It's true, I was unhappy with that situation.

When did this occur?

Could you please link the required corroborated evidence - or is this something you have just assumed to suit your constant and increasingly irrelevant critisism of the current coach?

I'm pretty happy to stick with there wasn't an obvious good atmosphere between coach & players for at least the first 18 months of RL's tenure.

The statement by it's nature is a matter of opinion.

What made the good atmosphere between coach & players so obvious to you?

Are you posting when intoxicated again? Didn't learn your lesson from Sunday mornings slurred attempt?

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... highlight=

The first step is admitting you have a problem...

[Saints43]

Please do try and understand that what you call Ross Lyons "failures" complete with YOUR PERCEPTIONS of his short comings AND the players I call learning......yes bizarre isnt it...that a new coach would take time to turn over a third of the list, revamp the fitness and conditioning structures (training services dept if you are corporately inclined as per your previous love interest...), revamp his coaching team and start to build chemistry with the team.....most on here understand this takes time. Only the fools are left stumbling round in the dark clutching pathetic, snide cheap shots against Lyon cause they got it wrong and now in every post resist any form of credit to what the coach has obviously been building since day 1.

Are you still attempting this one? Here's an exercise for you. Who do you think will finish in the top 15 of the Best And Fairest ? And when were they recruited to the club?

The turning over of a third of the list is the number of players that were turned over by nearly all AFL clubs over three pre-seasons.

We would have participated in delisting, trading and drafting no matter who was coaching.

Lyon admitted he got it all wrong did he? - I heard Lyon admit he tweaked the game plan....far cry from saying "I got it all wrong" and intimating he threw out his entire game plan and football ethos. Id suggest a little 'gilding the lily' has got you by the curlys again..but you've always done that when not addressing the topic havent you Dodg......I mean....why havent you addressed my previous post in terms of the concept being discussed in this thread?..... (dont tell me you again dont understand???)

You need to suck it up grasshopper - YOU GOT IT WRONG. The guy can coach (and yes I recall you very much questioning that.....quite Rodger-like yet again.......you two need to get your log-in times straight... ).
Its not so bad - breathe-in and say "I was wrong".

Do you honestly think that the way we are playing so far this season is in any way related to 2007? We are winning matches by pushing forward over the field not backwards. Totally different game style copied (and slightly modified) from Hawthorn. Really, try and get to a match one day... you may get some idea of what you are talking about.

Litte history lesson re: Fitzroy from those who know (and not pretend drama queens poncing round in their lounge screaming "I was there....I tried to save everyone...." ). Fitzroy did not die of apathy - truth be known Fitzroys debt situation was less critical than Carltons recent one.....one minor difference...in Fitzroys case the then VFL would not agree to guarantee their loan so they could continue to trade (its called an "expansion agenda" in the old language... ). Carlton can be corrupt as the day is long and as broke also and I gurantee the AFL will prop them up forever. Big difference. A-pathetic is how Id describe your support for my team the saints .

Opposition forum Fitzroy supporter.

So there you have it my little pet stalker - you can once again go off on a tangent, rambling like a half-@assed mad man, armed with pubescent logic, tons of false perception, a dash of over inflated self importance and a heady shot of hatred for all things Ross Lyon.

Least your consistent.

Er, didn't you ask me to post in this thread?

"Wheres Saints 43" - Page One - Post Six.

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... sc&start=0

Who's stalking who here?

[Teflon]

Please do try and understand that what you call Ross Lyons "failures" complete with YOUR PERCEPTIONS of his short comings AND the players I call learning......yes bizarre isnt it...that a new coach would take time to turn over a third of the list, revamp the fitness and conditioning structures (training services dept if you are corporately inclined as per your previous love interest...), revamp his coaching team and start to build chemistry with the team.....most on here understand this takes time. Only the fools are left stumbling round in the dark clutching pathetic, snide cheap shots against Lyon cause they got it wrong and now in every post resist any form of credit to what the coach has obviously been building since day 1.

Are you still attempting this one? Here's an exercise for you. Who do you think will finish in the top 15 of the Best And Fairest ? And when were they recruited to the club?

So the current resurgence at St Kilda has nothing to do with Clint Jones, Stephen King, Michael Gardiner, Adam Sneider???? I would have thought they have played key roles.........bizarre....again your troting out "its the list of 04....doing it all by itself...."...

Club list trun over pays absolutely no account of the type of players bought in by Ross to implement his game style - so you're tellig us all Hawthorn/Geelong turned over a third of their list????? Are you really suggesting these clubs have turned the amount Lyon over the same period?.......resorting to lies only makes you look more deserate....

Lyon admitted he got it all wrong did he? - I heard Lyon admit he tweaked the game plan....far cry from saying "I got it all wrong" and intimating he threw out his entire game plan and football ethos. Id suggest a little 'gilding the lily' has got you by the curlys again..but you've always done that when not addressing the topic havent you Dodg......I mean....why havent you addressed my previous post in terms of the concept being discussed in this thread?..... (dont tell me you again dont understand???)

You need to suck it up grasshopper - YOU GOT IT WRONG. The guy can coach (and yes I recall you very much questioning that.....quite Rodger-like yet again.......you two need to get your log-in times straight... ).
Its not so bad - breathe-in and say "I was wrong".

Do you honestly think that the way we are playing so far this season is in any way related to 2007? We are winning matches by pushing forward over the field not backwards. Totally different game style copied (and slightly modified) from Hawthorn. Really, try and get to a match one day... you may get some idea of what you are talking about.

Ofcourse the way we are playing this season is linked to 07 - it has to be FFS its the same coach,the same defensive philosophy. Again, why ignore the coach when he says he "tweaked" the game plan......why would you insist hes thrown out his entire game plan philosophy of 07 and conjured up a complete new game plan for 09....seriously get a clue its like arguing with a child....and if thats an example of your brilliant footy logic.....Id stay away from games if I were you.....

Litte history lesson re: Fitzroy from those who know (and not pretend drama queens poncing round in their lounge screaming "I was there....I tried to save everyone...." ). Fitzroy did not die of apathy - truth be known Fitzroys debt situation was less critical than Carltons recent one.....one minor difference...in Fitzroys case the then VFL would not agree to guarantee their loan so they could continue to trade (its called an "expansion agenda" in the old language... ). Carlton can be corrupt as the day is long and as broke also and I gurantee the AFL will prop them up forever. Big difference. A-pathetic is how Id describe your support for my team the saints .

Opposition forum Fitzroy supporter.

your the one keeps bringing it up....again Im just educating you with some facts...clearly you dont like them....

So there you have it my little pet stalker - you can once again go off on a tangent, rambling like a half-@assed mad man, armed with pubescent logic, tons of false perception, a dash of over inflated self importance and a heady shot of hatred for all things Ross Lyon.

Least your consistent.

Er, didn't you ask me to post in this thread?

"Wheres Saints 43" - Page One - Post Six.

I asked where you were........didnt ask for your misguided opinions......

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... sc&start=0

Who's stalking who here?

At least you desisted from the foul language that really shouldnt be part of a football site.

I was starting to think you had tourettes....

[joffaboy]

You are clearly unhappy that I criticised RL when the team didn't win, didn't gel and there wasn't an obvious good atmosphere between coach & players. It's true, I was unhappy with that situation.

When did this occur?

Could you please link the required corroborated evidence - or is this something you have just assumed to suit your constant and increasingly irrelevant critisism of the current coach?

I'm pretty happy to stick with there wasn't an obvious good atmosphere between coach & players for at least the first 18 months of RL's tenure.

The statement by it's nature is a matter of opinion.

What made the good atmosphere between coach & players so obvious to you?

Are you posting when intoxicated again? Didn't learn your lesson from Sunday mornings slurred attempt?

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... highlight=

The first step is admitting you have a problem...

Please dont make this personal. It just shows youa re increasingly losing the argument.

So it is your [i[opinion[/i] there it was obvious there wasn't a good atmosphere between coach and players.

So what has miraculously changed this obvious poor atmosphere?

A clean out of the senior group of players? Nope

Lyon completely changing his gameplan? Nope

Lyon completely changing his personality? Nope

So where has this change of atmosphere between players and coach occurred?

And why?

Fair Dinkum - you critisisms are becoming increasingly frenzied and silly. Just admit you had it completely and utterly wrong on Lyon and stop posting because it is making you foolish.

[iwantmeseats]

JB,

We seem to be now taking chances and looking to move the ball foward much more. Would this not constitute , lets say, at least a adjustment to the game plan?

I think so. Having been highly critical of the general game plan over the last two years.

Get down to our big fowards quickly, and lo and behold.

[iwantmeseats]

ok, you did say he hasnt completely changed it. fair enough.

[joffaboy]

At least you desisted from the foul language that really shouldnt be part of a football site.

I was starting to think you had tourettes....

Mate - give it up - when a bloke is so bereft of reasons and excuses that he starts with the personal stuff - you know you can stick a fork in him because he is done.

Really some of things he stated as supposed fact to support his opinions are laughable and really increasingly frenzied.

Give it up. The team is serving the likes of this bloke up a massive humble pie to eat this season and apparently he doesn't like it.

Funny - I would have thought he would have been wrapt to be proven wrong. Apparently not

[joffaboy]

JB,

We seem to be now taking chances and looking to move the ball foward much more. Would this not constitute , lets say, at least a adjustment to the game plan?

I think so. Having been highly critical of the general game plan over the last two years.

Get down to our big fowards quickly, and lo and behold.

Well I would asy that our attack is much more play on than last season. We coughed the pill up quite a few times on the weekend due to this. I dont mind that - with that type of attack that will happen a bit.

I think with the form of Kosi and the rucks fit and starring and the lisat as fit as it has been for - well anytime i can remember - we are so flexible in attack. We also have big hard bodies that break tackles and the likes of Ball Joey and Sammy Gilbert coming into their prime. All helps mthe attack.

I think our defensive game is just about the same as last year except because of our fitness we can go in for the second and third efforts. Also the style is becoming second nature and the player are playing more instinctive defence (and attack).

A big critisism last year was that all their flair was being coached out of them due to the gameplan and its stifling affects.

But that is all opinion - who knows.

One thing we all know was that we were a squillion miles behind the Hawks and Cats in the finals last year - not within co-ee of them.

RL may have well drilled to play on and take more risks so the gameplan may well have been tweaked.

Whatever has happened it is a mighty big and might pleasent suprise to me and I hope it continues until the last week in September

[rexy]

Still cant get a grip on this whole issue.

Seems to be some have been happy with Lyon from day one and cant accept that him taking over a list that had played 3 years of finals in a row and missing the finals for his first season was poor.

Others dont like him for some reason and cant accept that a top 4 finish and a prelim were good results last year and IMO we are playing pretty good footy now.

The rest of us see him as a coach who like a new player, started a bit slow and made a few mistakes but has grown into the role and is, it would seem, doing a good job now. Yes he has turned over a 3rd of the list as most teams would have in 3 seasons, I think you have to retire or delist 4? 3 times 4 is 12 and 12 times 3 is 36. The list is only 38 isnt it? He has strengthened the list as all teams would be trying to do at all times. And he has gone about it slightly differently to the previous coach. That makes sense to me, why sack the old coach and replace him with a new coach who has exactly the same ideas? You wouldnt would you. Gt IMO wouldnt have made the progress that RL has made and would have tried to win a flag with a purely offensive game. RL couldnt have got this list in a position to be as balanced and disciplined as it looks right now if it wasnt for the work GT did in recruiting hard working in and under mids, skillful and attacking HBFers and exciting big marking tall forwards who are all of good charachter.

What you get left with is a balanced opinion gentlemen.

Try it.

[Teflon]

Still cant get a grip on this whole issue.

Seems to be some have been happy with Lyon from day one and cant accept that him taking over a list that had played 3 years of finals in a row and missing the finals for his first season was poor.

Others dont like him for some reason and cant accept that a top 4 finish and a prelim were good results last year and IMO we are playing pretty good footy now.

The rest of us see him as a coach who like a new player, started a bit slow and made a few mistakes but has grown into the role and is, it would seem, doing a good job now. Yes he has turned over a 3rd of the list as most teams would have in 3 seasons, I think you have to retire or delist 4? 3 times 4 is 12 and 12 times 3 is 36. The list is only 38 isnt it? He has strengthened the list as all teams would be trying to do at all times. And he has gone about it slightly differently to the previous coach. That makes sense to me, why sack the old coach and replace him with a new coach who has exactly the same ideas? You wouldnt would you. Gt IMO wouldnt have made the progress that RL has made and would have tried to win a flag with a purely offensive game. RL couldnt have got this list in a position to be as balanced and disciplined as it looks right now if it wasnt for the work GT did in recruiting hard working in and under mids, skillful and attacking HBFers and exciting big marking tall forwards who are all of good charachter.

What you get left with is a balanced opinion gentlemen.

Try it.

you contradict yourself Rex.

On one hand he took over a "super side" according to your first para and was poor for missing finals in his first year as coach.

On the next.....hes a new coach, making a few mistakes bust growing into the role.......

My view:

1. The list wasnt 'ready made finals just add water' when Lyon took over.
2. We missed finals by a bees knob.....most clubs with a new AFL coach in year 1 would take that.....

As for turning over the list - nice to see the maths shine through...only problem for me is I suspect Lyon has turned over more than many clubs in 2 years (we aint finished 3 yet...) especially with the inclusion of rookies/scholarship.

BTW I think hes set about some real player development - seems to have some genuine strategies (his 4 yrs for 1) and so far is getting some good results with younger players. Sign of a good coach for me.

Im in agreeance on a balanced view btw...

[Saints43]

Please do try and understand that what you call Ross Lyons "failures" complete with YOUR PERCEPTIONS of his short comings AND the players I call learning......yes bizarre isnt it...that a new coach would take time to turn over a third of the list, revamp the fitness and conditioning structures (training services dept if you are corporately inclined as per your previous love interest...), revamp his coaching team and start to build chemistry with the team.....most on here understand this takes time. Only the fools are left stumbling round in the dark clutching pathetic, snide cheap shots against Lyon cause they got it wrong and now in every post resist any form of credit to what the coach has obviously been building since day 1.

Are you still attempting this one? Here's an exercise for you. Who do you think will finish in the top 15 of the Best And Fairest ? And when were they recruited to the club?

So the current resurgence at St Kilda has nothing to do with Clint Jones, Stephen King, Michael Gardiner, Adam Sneider???? I would have thought they have played key roles.........bizarre....again your troting out "its the list of 04....doing it all by itself...."...

Club list trun over pays absolutely no account of the type of players bought in by Ross to implement his game style - so you're tellig us all Hawthorn/Geelong turned over a third of their list????? Are you really suggesting these clubs have turned the amount Lyon over the same period?.......resorting to lies only makes you look more deserate....

Lyon admitted he got it all wrong did he? - I heard Lyon admit he tweaked the game plan....far cry from saying "I got it all wrong" and intimating he threw out his entire game plan and football ethos. Id suggest a little 'gilding the lily' has got you by the curlys again..but you've always done that when not addressing the topic havent you Dodg......I mean....why havent you addressed my previous post in terms of the concept being discussed in this thread?..... (dont tell me you again dont understand???)

You need to suck it up grasshopper - YOU GOT IT WRONG. The guy can coach (and yes I recall you very much questioning that.....quite Rodger-like yet again.......you two need to get your log-in times straight... ).
Its not so bad - breathe-in and say "I was wrong".

Do you honestly think that the way we are playing so far this season is in any way related to 2007? We are winning matches by pushing forward over the field not backwards. Totally different game style copied (and slightly modified) from Hawthorn. Really, try and get to a match one day... you may get some idea of what you are talking about.

Ofcourse the way we are playing this season is linked to 07 - it has to be FFS its the same coach,the same defensive philosophy. Again, why ignore the coach when he says he "tweaked" the game plan......why would you insist hes thrown out his entire game plan philosophy of 07 and conjured up a complete new game plan for 09....seriously get a clue its like arguing with a child....and if thats an example of your brilliant footy logic.....Id stay away from games if I were you.....

Litte history lesson re: Fitzroy from those who know (and not pretend drama queens poncing round in their lounge screaming "I was there....I tried to save everyone...." ). Fitzroy did not die of apathy - truth be known Fitzroys debt situation was less critical than Carltons recent one.....one minor difference...in Fitzroys case the then VFL would not agree to guarantee their loan so they could continue to trade (its called an "expansion agenda" in the old language... ). Carlton can be corrupt as the day is long and as broke also and I gurantee the AFL will prop them up forever. Big difference. A-pathetic is how Id describe your support for my team the saints .

Opposition forum Fitzroy supporter.

your the one keeps bringing it up....again Im just educating you with some facts...clearly you dont like them....

So there you have it my little pet stalker - you can once again go off on a tangent, rambling like a half-@assed mad man, armed with pubescent logic, tons of false perception, a dash of over inflated self importance and a heady shot of hatred for all things Ross Lyon.

Least your consistent.

Er, didn't you ask me to post in this thread?

"Wheres Saints 43" - Page One - Post Six.

I asked where you were........didnt ask for your misguided opinions......

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... sc&start=0

Who's stalking who here?

At least you desisted from the foul language that really shouldnt be part of a football site.

I was starting to think you had tourettes....

Of course the current good for has something to do with Michael Gardiner - he has been in terrific form - better than I ever expected to see again. Stephen King has been OK, Clint Jones (great job on Kerr) & Adam Sneider are bit players. The list changes have been good IMO but have been mostly to the fringes of the squad. Just accept that RL walked into THE BEST LIST A NEW COACH HAS HAD IN HIS FIRST SEASON FOR 20 YEARS. It's not having a go at him it's just a fact. I don't know why it bothers you so much.

Is it because you and your mates declared the list to be no good when results started poorly in 2007 & 2008?

Ross Lyon has copied (and slightly modified) the Hawthorn plan of 2008. Do you think we have played like this in 2007-2008? Again, I don't see why it's so important to you where the ideas come from and how big the changes are. The inportant thing is that at this early stage of the season it looks to be right.

Er, didn't you ask me to post in this thread?

"Wheres Saints 43" - Page One - Post Six.

"I asked where you were........didnt ask for your misguided opinions......

Who's stalking who here?

So you were enquiring about my physical location? It's you who's the stalker, isn't it?

[Saints43]

Give it up. The team is serving the likes of this bloke up a massive humble pie to eat this season and apparently he doesn't like it.

Funny - I would have thought he would have been wrapt to be proven wrong. Apparently not

How is the team making me eat humble pie? I was the one who was disappointed that the list was not being utilised to it's full potential. I'm the one who was unhappy when they were losing! You and your buddies thought RL was making the best of the poor hand he had been dealt...


It is hilarious to hear you - of ALL people - talking about eating humble pie.

How many times on this forum did you declare the list to be no good during 2007-2008?

You even delcared that we would be playing the same boring game plan as last year! Well we're not, champ, we are playing the same gameplan as Hawthorn 2008 (slightly modified) as detailed in various media outlets. FFS RL said we'd be playing through the middle of the ground rather than chipping it around the wings - wouldn't you say that was quite a BIG change of philosophy?

[Saints43]

you contradict yourself Rex.

On one hand he took over a "super side" according to your first para and was poor for missing finals in his first year as coach.

On the next.....hes a new coach, making a few mistakes bust growing into the role.......

How is that a contradiction?

Are you sure your English skills are good enough to be the Discussion Leader?

[Teflon]

you contradict yourself Rex.

On one hand he took over a "super side" according to your first para and was poor for missing finals in his first year as coach.

On the next.....hes a new coach, making a few mistakes bust growing into the role.......

How is that a contradiction?

Are you sure your English skills are good enough to be the Discussion Leader?

IMO Rexy's proposition was one or the other:

Lyons either a poor coach in 2007 with a super list or a developing coah in the same period which would indicate the poor results shouldnt have been a major suprise.

Sure you can argue the 2 arent mutually exclusive - I dont think he was.

As for discussion leaders...again your simple little mind missed the point - it isnt "english" skills that determine a discussion leaders ability....its the ability to develop and discuss an idea....(you've been following one of mine since the thread started....nice to have you on board... )

You do look a lot like Peter Hoare you know...

Good to see you've abandoned the simplistic, disgusting language of previous posts - keep up the good work...

[Teflon]

Please do try and understand that what you call Ross Lyons "failures" complete with YOUR PERCEPTIONS of his short comings AND the players I call learning......yes bizarre isnt it...that a new coach would take time to turn over a third of the list, revamp the fitness and conditioning structures (training services dept if you are corporately inclined as per your previous love interest...), revamp his coaching team and start to build chemistry with the team.....most on here understand this takes time. Only the fools are left stumbling round in the dark clutching pathetic, snide cheap shots against Lyon cause they got it wrong and now in every post resist any form of credit to what the coach has obviously been building since day 1.

Are you still attempting this one? Here's an exercise for you. Who do you think will finish in the top 15 of the Best And Fairest ? And when were they recruited to the club?

So the current resurgence at St Kilda has nothing to do with Clint Jones, Stephen King, Michael Gardiner, Adam Sneider???? I would have thought they have played key roles.........bizarre....again your troting out "its the list of 04....doing it all by itself...."...

Club list trun over pays absolutely no account of the type of players bought in by Ross to implement his game style - so you're tellig us all Hawthorn/Geelong turned over a third of their list????? Are you really suggesting these clubs have turned the amount Lyon over the same period?.......resorting to lies only makes you look more deserate....

Lyon admitted he got it all wrong did he? - I heard Lyon admit he tweaked the game plan....far cry from saying "I got it all wrong" and intimating he threw out his entire game plan and football ethos. Id suggest a little 'gilding the lily' has got you by the curlys again..but you've always done that when not addressing the topic havent you Dodg......I mean....why havent you addressed my previous post in terms of the concept being discussed in this thread?..... (dont tell me you again dont understand???)

You need to suck it up grasshopper - YOU GOT IT WRONG. The guy can coach (and yes I recall you very much questioning that.....quite Rodger-like yet again.......you two need to get your log-in times straight... ).
Its not so bad - breathe-in and say "I was wrong".

Do you honestly think that the way we are playing so far this season is in any way related to 2007? We are winning matches by pushing forward over the field not backwards. Totally different game style copied (and slightly modified) from Hawthorn. Really, try and get to a match one day... you may get some idea of what you are talking about.

Ofcourse the way we are playing this season is linked to 07 - it has to be FFS its the same coach,the same defensive philosophy. Again, why ignore the coach when he says he "tweaked" the game plan......why would you insist hes thrown out his entire game plan philosophy of 07 and conjured up a complete new game plan for 09....seriously get a clue its like arguing with a child....and if thats an example of your brilliant footy logic.....Id stay away from games if I were you.....

Litte history lesson re: Fitzroy from those who know (and not pretend drama queens poncing round in their lounge screaming "I was there....I tried to save everyone...." ). Fitzroy did not die of apathy - truth be known Fitzroys debt situation was less critical than Carltons recent one.....one minor difference...in Fitzroys case the then VFL would not agree to guarantee their loan so they could continue to trade (its called an "expansion agenda" in the old language... ). Carlton can be corrupt as the day is long and as broke also and I gurantee the AFL will prop them up forever. Big difference. A-pathetic is how Id describe your support for my team the saints .

Opposition forum Fitzroy supporter.

your the one keeps bringing it up....again Im just educating you with some facts...clearly you dont like them....

So there you have it my little pet stalker - you can once again go off on a tangent, rambling like a half-@assed mad man, armed with pubescent logic, tons of false perception, a dash of over inflated self importance and a heady shot of hatred for all things Ross Lyon.

Least your consistent.

Er, didn't you ask me to post in this thread?

"Wheres Saints 43" - Page One - Post Six.

I asked where you were........didnt ask for your misguided opinions......

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... sc&start=0

Who's stalking who here?

At least you desisted from the foul language that really shouldnt be part of a football site.

I was starting to think you had tourettes....

Of course the current good for has something to do with Michael Gardiner - he has been in terrific form - better than I ever expected to see again. Stephen King has been OK, Clint Jones (great job on Kerr) & Adam Sneider are bit players. The list changes have been good IMO but have been mostly to the fringes of the squad. Just accept that RL walked into THE BEST LIST A NEW COACH HAS HAD IN HIS FIRST SEASON FOR 20 YEARS. It's not having a go at him it's just a fact. I don't know why it bothers you so much.

You might want to check Sneiders goal assist efforts before consigning him to bit player this year Yabby Jnr.......I think you'll be surprised...

Kings been better than ok - hs been super influencial through his body work alone.....again such a simple little mind...and as for Jones.....even a Lyon hater like you would have to admit the coach is extracting the maximum from a player many thought shouldnt be playing AFL.

THE BEST LIST IN 20 YEARS? ...whooaa down there boy...that would indicate that Thomas's failings even more so for me....(and again make a mockery of his recent claims that training service are overrated....he still doesnt get it the poor twit). IMHO to make a clai Lyon took over the best list in 20 years is senasationalist dribble - the same list hadnt achieved in 5 under Thomas. The same list had senior players on the decline, under performing core players (see Kosi) and perhaps a fringe that had no depth. Thank f@rk Ross Lyon has (hes had to) address these glaring holes and his "fringe players" appear to be doing the job. Interesting that hes also getting the best of bit players in Blake, Jones, Geary, Eddy, Mqualter, Gwilt and Co. Gwilts a good example....under Thomas I had this guy gone. Under Lyon Im having to re think that.

Best list in 20 years?....no.
A new coach who has a very good technical understanding of the game to select and get the best out of players....yes.

Did that take time - yes.
Was that undexpected - no.

I can't make it any easier for you - next stop Im putting all this in a Wiggles tune for your challenged little intellect.

BTW - none of it bothers me "so much" its an internet forum.....I havent gone off on tangents with foul language.....Im ok......I think you need a look in the mirror and a trip to the "special docs" for some help.

Is it because you and your mates declared the list to be no good when results started poorly in 2007 & 2008?

No. Ive explained above. I can no longer help you. You need professional assistance its called "dog-with-a-bone-itis"

Ross Lyon has copied (and slightly modified) the Hawthorn plan of 2008. Do you think we have played like this in 2007-2008? Again, I don't see why it's so important to you where the ideas come from and how big the changes are. The inportant thing is that at this early stage of the season it looks to be right.

"Inportant" isnt an English word.....you sure you should be lecturing on English skills...(I only ask as you bought it up...doesnt worry me much..).

So now we are Hawthorn copy cats? first it was Sydney...now Hawthorn....LMAO - why? all because we (along with 15 other teams) can now play a rolling zone when needed....so this means our entire game plan revolves around copying Hawthorn?....I dont think we look like Hawthorn going fwd at the moment at all......but again....its about you deriding Lyon, refusing to admit that perhaps the coach has his own plans and perhaps the seeds of these started in 2007????

It really isnt hard to grasp...Im stunned you are that slow as I had you down for half smart at least.

Er, didn't you ask me to post in this thread?

"Wheres Saints 43" - Page One - Post Six.

"I asked where you were........didnt ask for your misguided opinions......

Who's stalking who here?

So you were enquiring about my physical location? It's you who's the stalker, isn't it?

The rest is noise Dodgy - you've lost the plot, so many other posters have tried to educate but I feel your dislike of me and Rossy has blinded you.

Hang in there - as long as the club has old roy boy fans like me we should be able to carry leeches like you....

[rodgerfox]

I agree with Saints43 on the list thing.

I don't think the term 'turned over' is really accurate.

Average players were trimmed off, some retired.

That would have happened anyway, did happen before Lyon came along and happens at all clubs.

What has happened in regards to the list is the following...

Good, core, key players have been retained.
Depth/top up players have been recruited to compliment them.
Our list is fit and more mature.


To be honest, I don't think Lyon has done anything special with our list. I think it's a bit of a myth about him buidling a list that suits his game plan.

Apart from King and Gardiner, the recruits are just doing a job. And until our guns were fit and firing, they weren't.


I think generally those who were blaming Lyon's poor first year on Thomas' 'list management' are now trying to fan that flame as it pieters out into the myth that it is.

We don't look slow now. We don't have gaping holes everywhere.

The reality is that we did have a good list, and still do. The difference now is that they're fit and playing well.

[saintsRrising]

I think generally those who were blaming Lyon's poor first year on Thomas' 'list management' are now trying to fan that flame as it pieters out into the myth that it is.

We don't look slow now. We don't have gaping holes everywhere.

l.

Actually 100% the opposite is stark and clear.


. The list that RL gained had a lot of talent...of that fact there is no doubt. But what was also clear was that it was out of balance.

We lacked rucks...and we lacked runners... we lacked forward options...we lacked a another tall back option to back up Goose and Max.

It is now very clear that our team is much better balanced with with improved structure because Lyon has filled the holes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Schneider as a forward
Ray off HB for RUN
CJ for pace and run (rookie)
Zac as an extra tall back (rookie)
Geary for run (rookie)
Gardiner in the ruck....allows Kosi to be played where he should be as a key forward
King in the ruck


Also Blake has been developed into a reliable key defensive option. He and Zac keeps Sam Fisher free...which greatly improves our team structure.


We still lack a half-forward...but the list is now way WAY better balanced.


The list under GT was in clear decline. The supposed mythical "best avaialble player rule" leading to odd recruiting.


Now look at not just the seniors...but our reserves at Sandi and you can see clear vision and purpose...bith for 2009 and to also set the Saints up for the future.


We have emerging rucks....mids...forwards.....and with Zac a possible future ke defender.


Go back to GT's reign...and you see gaping holes everywhere...with little systematic thought for the present or future...but witha random recruiting process running at full throttle.



PS....on the injury front...years of bungling and mis-management are not fixed overnight.

We are benefitting now injury wise by discarding the mistakes of the GT years in player conditioning and management where we were just about the worst in the AFL.

[rodgerfox]

I think generally those who were blaming Lyon's poor first year on Thomas' 'list management' are now trying to fan that flame as it pieters out into the myth that it is.

We don't look slow now. We don't have gaping holes everywhere.

l.

Actually 100% the opposite is stark and clear.


. The list that RL gained had a lot of talent...of that fact there is no doubt. But what was aso clear was that it was out of balance.

We lacked rucks...and we lacked runners... we lacked forward options...we lacked a another tall back option to back up Goose and Max.

It is now very clear that out team is much better balanced with with improved structure.

Schneider as a forward
Ray off HB for RUN
CJ for pace and run (rookie)
Zac as an extra tall back (rookie)
Geary for run (rookie)
Gardiner in the ruck....allows Kosi to be played where he should be as a key forward
King in the ruck


Also Blake has been developed into a reliable key defensive option. He and Zac keeps Sam Fisher free...which greatly improves our team structure.


We still lack a half-forward...but the list is now way WAY better balanced.


The list under GT was in clear decline. The supposed mythical "best avaialble player rule" leading to odd recruiting.


Now look at not just the seniors...but our reserves at Sandi and you can see clear vision and purpose...bith for 2009 and to also set the Saints up for the future.


We have emerging rucks....mids...forwards.....and with Zac a possible future ke defender.


Go back to GT's reign...and you see gaping holes everywhere...with little systematic thought for the present or future...but witha random recruiting process running at full throttle.

But you add both Clarkes, Max and Goose back in, and suddenly the horrible list that Lyon inherited doesn't that look that much different to what's on the park now.

Obviously two solid ruckmen is a big difference to the list.

But Jones, Geary and Schneider surely don't prove that there's been a huge list turnover designed to match Lyon's game plan???

I certainly believe Lyon thinks about his recruiting (even though he isn't the recruiting guy or the lsit management guy so I really don't know what input he even has), but I really think you and others tried so hard to hang your hat on the 'horrible list thing' that doesn't really exist.

I see our recruiting now as on par with what everyone does - including GT. Identify your core, and keep them. You build around them. You recruit kids for the future, and you recruit top-ups to compliment your core.