This will sound like heresy

[stinger]

ahhrrr....a contrary opinion by a respected football poster.....wonder what type of response you will get cowboy....???

[BigMart]

Not sure the point of this......Harves was the ultimate team man....far from an individual....he bought players into the game with creativity.....

Throw a 28yo R.Harvey in our midfield....we would be much better off.....throw a 37yo R.Harvey in our midfield - we would still be better off...

He is just a quality player who has retired......do you think we are playing well because Harves has retired......or the side is in good form....

BTW - it is just two games....take our form from R12 to R22 last year....Harvey was playing then...

[joffaboy]

another putdown jb???????.....

If you dont have anything to add to the thread please stop trying to jack it.

You have not raised one argument for or against - all you are attempting to do is to destroy another thread as you do all the time in the general forum.

Do it again and I'll report you to the mods. You behaviour is against forum rules.

Now either attend to the Op or please stop posting on the thread. You are wrecking it.

[cowboy18]

ahhrrr....a contrary opinion by a respected football poster.....wonder what type of response you will get cowboy....???

I've no doubt he will buy me a beer when I get down to a game later this year in appreciation of having his hypothesis rejected and his misconceptions clarified.

Provided I clear up the other typos...

[joffaboy]

Not sure the point of this......Harves was the ultimate team man....far from an individual....he bought players into the game with creativity.....

Indeed he was. I suppose the question is did the other players rely too much on him

Throw a 28yo R.Harvey in our midfield....we would be much better off.....throw a 37yo R.Harvey in our midfield - we would still be better off...

From a player perspective - I agree. I basically just wondered if that now the psychological crutch has been completely removed - have the players responded? Is this part of the reason?

Really I dont know. It was only a question on a football forum open for discussion.

He is just a quality player who has retired......do you think we are playing well because Harves has retired......or the side is in good form....

Far too early to say it is because Harv's isn't there. Only two rounds. I mean the type of footy played these days suits a player like Harvey to the ground.

As I have tried to make the point - it is not an issues with Harvey but possibly with the rest of the group.

And as i stated - i dont know.

BTW - it is just two games....take our form from R12 to R22 last year....Harvey was playing then...

Too true. And as you say it is only two games.

Thanks for the decent reply.

[joffaboy]

ahhrrr....a contrary opinion by a respected football poster.....wonder what type of response you will get cowboy....???

I've no doubt he will buy me a beer when I get down to a game later this year in appreciation of having his hypothesis rejected and his misconceptions clarified.

Provided I clear up the other typos...

Considering you had an opinion and not a personal attack I am sure you will reciprocate in the beer buying

Nice to see you have an opinion and didn't come on here to troll and flame war as other have done. You may well be right.

That would be a first

[stinger]

another putdown jb???????.....

If you don't have anything to add to the thread please stop trying to jack it.

You have not raised one argument for or against - all you are attempting to do is to destroy another thread as you do all the time in the general forum.

Do it again and I'll report you to the mods. You behaviour is against forum rules.

Now either attend to the Op or please stop posting on the thread. You are wrecking it.

for the record.....i don't agree with your views on banger but i agree with mart ...not sure what your point really is apart from you puffing out your chest,...


to my mind you are taliking crap .... by !) putting down banger's contribution to the team..2)..inferring that the players lack integrity and 3).....insulting posters who have a contrary view.....


the last one is par for the course.....


...go on '''report me to the mods ffs.....





...how dare you criticize me and accuse me of hijacking your thread....you do it to nearly everyone of my threads where i dare to criticise your toliet's poster boy ...rude little kenny....ffs......

[matrix]

[stinger]

[matrix]

hehehe

[stinger]

ahhrrr....a contrary opinion by a respected football poster.....wonder what type of response you will get cowboy....???

I've no doubt he will buy me a beer when I get down to a game later this year in appreciation of having his hypothesis rejected and his misconceptions clarified.

Provided I clear up the other typos...

Considering you had an opinion and not a personal attack I am sure you will reciprocate in the beer buying

Nice to see you have an opinion and didn't come on here to troll and flame war as other have done. You may well be right.

That would be a first

you obviously missed this one...


"
I wonder if Essendon fans were thinking along these lines when Hird retired. I wonder if Collingwood fans were suggesting they were better off without Buckley. I doubt it.

How quickly we forget...[/quote]yep........was wondering how long it would take for one of the self professed experts to start trotting out this sort of garbage.......

[St Fidelius]

Firstly I think the title of the thread should be hindsight instead of heresy...

Robert Harvey last year had an average of over 21 disposals a game, I don't have the Champion Data stats to see just how many goal assist he was involved in, but one would imagine that those figures would be good.

I do see where you are coming from, and the blooding of young talent is paramount, but if their form or injuries during last year prevented them from promotion, well so be it.

We have recruited Farren Ray this year for next to nothing, ( a previous number 4 draft pick) Ray is averaging just the same disposals as Harvey's last season.

Given the fact that some core players are continuing to improve, players like, Gilbert, and Montagna,

I really cant see any validation in this comment...

Is St.Kilda better off from a structure and psychological perspective now Robert Harvey has retired?

[joffaboy]

Firstly I think the title of the thread should be hindsight instead of heresy...

Robert Harvey last year had an average of over 21 disposals a game, I don't have the Champion Data stats to see just how many goal assist he was involved in, but one would imagine that those figures would be good.

I do see where you are coming from, and the blooding of young talent is paramount, but if their form or injuries during last year prevented them from promotion, well so be it.

We have recruited Farren Ray this year for next to nothing, ( a previous number 4 draft pick) Ray is averaging just the same disposals as Harvey's last season.

Given the fact that some core players are continuing to improve, players like, Gilbert, and Montagna,

I really cant see any validation in this comment...

Is St.Kilda better off from a structure and psychological perspective now Robert Harvey has retired?

Thank you for the constructive response Fid.

And you may be very well correct in your last observation.

Really the whole thread was just a talking point and not meant to disrespect the great Robert Harvey.

Too bad others couldn't respond with the dignity and deceny you have done here and had to be warned about jacking threads and mods before i got any semblence of actually being on topic instead of trolling.

Oh BTW if Harv's was playing this season he would be the first picked in my team.

Fact is he has moved on and changed scenery. I think it is great if the Saints also do so.

cheers.

[St Fidelius]

Firstly I think the title of the thread should be hindsight instead of heresy...

Robert Harvey last year had an average of over 21 disposals a game, I don't have the Champion Data stats to see just how many goal assist he was involved in, but one would imagine that those figures would be good.

I do see where you are coming from, and the blooding of young talent is paramount, but if their form or injuries during last year prevented them from promotion, well so be it.

We have recruited Farren Ray this year for next to nothing, ( a previous number 4 draft pick) Ray is averaging just the same disposals as Harvey's last season.

Given the fact that some core players are continuing to improve, players like, Gilbert, and Montagna,

I really cant see any validation in this comment...

Is St.Kilda better off from a structure and psychological perspective now Robert Harvey has retired?

Thank you for the constructive response Fid.

And you may be very well correct in your last observation.

Really the whole thread was just a talking point and not meant to disrespect the great Robert Harvey.

Too bad others couldn't respond with the dignity and deceny you have done here and had to be warned about jacking threads and mods before i got any semblence of actually being on topic instead of trolling.

Oh BTW if Harv's was playing this season he would be the first picked in my team.

Fact is he has moved on and changed scenery. I think it is great if the Saints also do so.

cheers.

well then there is also the emergence of Clinton Jones, who kept Jarrad McVeigh down to 16 possessions for the entire match and 9 of those was in the first quarter, before he was moved on him..

ATM McVeigh stands at 21 possessions at half time and has kicked1.1...

The improvement of these players is the result of "blooding" and these players are only going to get better

[WayneJudson42]

I honestly don't think we'd be better this year with HArvey playing.... there's no telling how his form would be.

He was found wanting in the finals IMO.

[Beej]

Wooo hooo we're 2 and zip. We're on fire. Give us the flag now. And what is the reason for our Premiership form? Harvey's gone, it must be the fact he's missing.

Kosi's playing good footy. He must be reveling in the fact Harves' shadow isn't following him around anymore. Dal Santo too.

Joey has been playing well, thank god he's been released from those chains that Harves had him in.

In hindsight, we should've delisted Harves long ago had we known the lads would respond like this.

The post-Harvey era has begun.

I pray the great man, the greatest our club has seen, doesn't read this forum. Total lack of respect.

[stinger]

[quote="joffaboy"][quote="St Fidelius"]

Too bad others couldn't respond with the dignity and deceny you have done here and had to be warned about jacking threads and mods before i got any semblence of actually being on topic instead of trolling.[quote]

wtf is deceny ..???


...warned ?????...don't make me laugh...you the.head prefect these days....????


...i post what i want to post....not what you want....

[sunsaint]

But the glaring flaw in your your logic: we should get rid of Roo, NDS and Goddard just in case they become champions of the game, and their team mates start to, or worse still are already relying on them.

You have to smile when posters put out this kind of post and then get uppity when others disagree, talk about an ego.

Another one who obviously doesn't understand the OP.

As WJ42 should have expected this type of response

Not about ego at all - it is simply about having the objectivity to understand a premis.

Seeing everything in absolutes only clouds your judgement. Not saying it is correct or not - just stating a POV.

Obviously uou have some difficulties understanding this simple concept. Oh well too bad.

so because i dont agree with your post I lack the ability to understand a "PREMISE"?
because I pointed out flaws in your "POV" I can only see things in black and white absolutes?
I dont come here to find friends to play in my cyberspace sand pit so if you only want to play with those that agree that's fine, but when you received pretty valid points against and then proceeded to argue I get the feeling it was more about your ego.
But I spose your right, because I reckon Gehrig was another player holding back all those coleman medalists in our list just biding their time till he retired

[stinger]

Wooo hooo we're 2 and zip. We're on fire. Give us the flag now. And what is the reason for our Premiership form? Harvey's gone, it must be the fact he's missing.

Kosi's playing good footy. He must be reveling in the fact Harves' shadow isn't following him around anymore. Dal Santo too.

Joey has been playing well, thank god he's been released from those chains that Harves had him in.

In hindsight, we should've delisted Harves long ago had we known the lads would respond like this.

The post-Harvey era has begun.

I pray the great man, the greatest our club has seen, doesn't read this forum. Total lack of respect.

at the risk of being abused , called a troll, threatened with the mods and accused of still trying to hijack jb's thread, ...i must say i totally agree with the sentiments so eloquently expressed by you in your well thought out and constructed response to one of the most offensive op's i have had the misfortune to read.....

[ausfatcat]

With respect to Harveys for the last 4 years of his career he wasn't the goto midfielder winning the game.

[rexy]

Quite possibly the retirements of Thompson Pecket and Powell helped our midfield/flankers develope over the last couple of years. The delisting of the likes of Fiora, Rix and Gardiner last year should also force us to blood youth when we need to rather than go back to 2nd rate players.

Dont think you can put the retirement of a 2 time brownlow medalist, 9 times All australian, 5 times B&F winner and the largest accumulator of football in the history of the game in to that category though. Still averaging 20+ a game as he approached 40 yrs of age and was playing a role as allocated by the coaching staff. A quiet and mild mannered man off the field I dont think other players ever left it to Harves. He just did everything he could and others dont do this as naturally as he did.

I do see improvement in effort and work rate around the stoppages and when the oppositio have the ball but I think they are a combination of the last 2 years of coaching and the maturity of the core group within our list, I think slowly they are starting to realise what they have to do to go to the pinnacle, lets hope they can maintain this and just be quietly disappointed that they couldnt find it whilst the great number 35 was still running around.

[joffaboy]

Wooo hooo we're 2 and zip. We're on fire. Give us the flag now. And what is the reason for our Premiership form? Harvey's gone, it must be the fact he's missing.

Kosi's playing good footy. He must be reveling in the fact Harves' shadow isn't following him around anymore. Dal Santo too.

Joey has been playing well, thank god he's been released from those chains that Harves had him in.

In hindsight, we should've delisted Harves long ago had we known the lads would respond like this.

The post-Harvey era has begun.

I pray the great man, the greatest our club has seen, doesn't read this forum. Total lack of respect.

at the risk of being abused , called a troll, threatened with the mods and accused of still trying to hijack jb's thread, ...i must say i totally agree with the sentiments so eloquently expressed by you in your well thought out and constructed response to one of the most offensive op's i have had the misfortune to read.....

dont read it then. Nobody forces you to come on to a thread and troll and abuse and threaten

I do find it amusing that you would side with one of the most ignorant and silly posts on the thread.

The poster made a fool of himself with the ignorant and totally inaccurate hyperbole.

That you would agree does not suprise me in the least.

Reactionary and totally lacking in any thought on the subject except to label and accuse

thank goodness most on this thread have the intelligence to see the real question and the topic not turn it into the usual pissing contest for puffed up egotists trolls and thread jackers.

Not suprised you are at the forefront and attempt to wreck another thread.

You have nothing to say on the subject of any worth apart to rubbish it.

So typical.

[joffaboy]

I think they are a combination of the last 2 years of coaching and the maturity of the core group within our list, I think slowly they are starting to realise what they have to do to go to the pinnacle, lets hope they can maintain this and just be quietly disappointed that they couldnt find it whilst the great number 35 was still running around.

Yeah good point. I hope so as well.

[WayneJudson42]

Some one puts an argument out there. Asks for feedback... does it respectfully.

Some have the common sense to point our their views.

And there's others who carry on like he was saying that Harvey was cr@p.

What a bunch of thin skinned primadonnas some of you are.

It's this sort of messiah syndrome which has held this club back for so long.

Typical emotional, hysterical response... just like the cr@pola when RL compared him to Bradley... or when the footy show didn't give him a 30 minute feature.

"Disrespectful", "shameful"... ffs.

Blah, blah blah. Pick up yer dummies, stick 'em back in your collective mouths... and get some perspective.

Nowehere have I seen JB saying a bad word about Harvey... nowhere. But hey, let's not let the facts stand in the way, now.

RL summed it up when he spoke of Cousins... so maybe, just maybe, we had some players who did rely on 35... when they should have taken a long hard look at themselves.

[stinger]

The poster made a fool of himself with the ignorant and totally inaccurate hyperbole.



Reactionary and totally lacking in any thought on the subject except to label and accuse

thank goodness most on this thread have the intelligence to see the real question and the topic not turn it into the usual pissing contest for puffed up egotists trolls and thread jackers.

not surprisingly ....those three sentences aptly describe you...... to a tee..


also not surprised to see the quality posters defending you.....