Riewoldt ruining our structure?

Broodruff · Post: # 710158Post **Broodruff** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 11:15am

Yep.

Before I start, don't get me wrong.
Riewoldt is a gun, doesnt stop running and all that.
I do find him to be a little bit over-rated, but a good player no doubt.

That, however, is beside the point. I don't want to turn this into a 'he's a champ/he isnt a champ' thread.

I think Roo is ruining our structure, really, its because we havent haid any other solid forward since G-Train, sure Kosi's played the odd good game there and booted a few, but no-one else has really stood up and made themselves a target and I think we are suffering.

Too many times, I reakon when we are pushing forward, we have blinkers on and all we see is Roo, even when he's double or triple teamed.

Discuss

shmic_s · Post: # 710160Post **shmic_s** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 11:24am

i don't think he is at all over-rated. he is an absolute gun.

but maybe he would be more useful further out from goals, on the wing, playing a simular role that richo played for the tigers last year.

saintlee · Post: # 710161Post **saintlee** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 11:25am

I would argue that our other forwards to stand up and produce more....both in terms of goals and in offering strong leads to space....they should emulate Roo's workrate

Loyal · Post: # 710163Post **Loyal** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 11:51am

what structure? seriously..
we need to have milne and schnieder roaming from the pockets.
roo is a footy god but he needs to park on the arc.
kosi needs to be the big target at full forward and,
we need our crumbers to be roaming from the pockets.
too often milney is in the goalsquare. he needs to be in the pocket and so does schnieds.
gards can play towards the flank, i dont care, he is a target.
kosi in the goalsquare.

Armoooo · Post: # 710254Post **Armoooo** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 5:18pm

Gardiner and King should never be in our forward n50, if one of them has to be rested there for any significant amount of time that tells me we should only be playing one of them.

Riewoldt is the only player in our forward line (except for Milne) that actually does their job, Riewoldt isn't the problem, he's our saving grace.

What we need is a third option, a player who can take a contested mark but also be able to compete at ground level. Kosi is OK in the forward line but he's not good enough to be able to take two men at a time.

plugger66 · Post: # 710273Post **plugger66** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 6:23pm

shmic_s wrote:i don't think he is at all over-rated. he is an absolute gun.

but maybe he would be more useful further out from goals, on the wing, playing a simular role that richo played for the tigers last year.

I would go even further. I would put our best foward, best player and 4 time B&F winner playing in the forward line, at CHB so we dont have to kick it to him.

alex101 · Post: # 710288Post **alex101** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 7:20pm

I wouldn't use the term "ruining" personally, rather we're just a little to dependent upon him, which in effect allows the opposition to easily predict who, for at least the majority of the time, we will kick to when up forward.

But hey, his pretty dependable... We just need another G-Train to come along...

Solar · Post: # 710290Post **Solar** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 7:22pm

the problem is one of either confidence or ability that leads to us always looking for roo.

Do the other forwards really rate themselves as a viable option to kick to over the roo? Do the midfielders have the confidence to kick to other options when the champ is there leading at them, even if he does have 5 men hanging off him?

Or do we always look to roo because they other forwards are not up to this level (see gwilt)?

Hopfully gilbertcan give us that confident second option cause kosi aint the answer right now

Statsman · Post: # 710291Post **Statsman** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 7:25pm

I'm not sure how Roo can be blamed for for "ruining" out structure. He certainly wasn't ruining anything when he played alongside Gehrig. The real issue is our lack of a second key forward and the inability of our midfield to move the ball quickly and delivery correctly inside 50.

Solar · Post: # 710292Post **Solar** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 7:28pm

Statsman wrote:I'm not sure how Roo can be blamed for for "ruining" out structure. He certainly wasn't ruining anything when he played alongside Gehrig. The real issue is our lack of a second key forward and the inability of our midfield to move the ball quickly and delivery correctly inside 50.

statsman...

curious for others answer to this also

is it the midfielders fault that they stop, look up and only see roo bing triple teamed and thus kick sideways or short (thus the problem is with the lead up forwards getting to position and demandi ng the ball) or is the fault with the midfielders and if they hurried up with the ball movement the forwards would have a better chance?

It's a curious one.... I lean towards wanting the mids to use the ball and hit a target then blaze away but there is a big worry about our leading forward options currently.

Statsman · Post: # 710297Post **Statsman** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 7:33pm

It probably comes down to a combination of things from how, when and where the forwards lead to how quickly we move the ball through the middle to the decision making and foot skills of the on-ballers. Whatever it is, the entire team needs to operate more effectively as a single unit to be more potent up forward and put bigger scores on the board. We have enough fire power up forward and enough class through the middle, but we're not seeing the results.

Solar · Post: # 710304Post **Solar** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 7:48pm

Statsman wrote:It probably comes down to a combination of things from how, when and where the forwards lead to how quickly we move the ball through the middle to the decision making and foot skills of the on-ballers. Whatever it is, the entire team needs to operate more effectively as a single unit to be more potent up forward and put bigger scores on the board. We have enough fire power up forward and enough class through the middle, but we're not seeing the results.

do you think some of our forwards demand the football enough? I remember jimmy at scorps level barely wanting the ball... yet we want him to become a lead up forward???? I watch games and only ever see milne or roo leading hard over and over. The rest either don't know where to lead to, don't know when to lead or are not confident enough....

not sure what it is but it makes playing on fast a difficult thing off half back. You look up and only see the big blonde coming at ya.....

saintspremiers · Mon 16 Mar 2009 8:08pm

plugger66 wrote:
shmic_s wrote:i don't think he is at all over-rated. he is an absolute gun.

but maybe he would be more useful further out from goals, on the wing, playing a simular role that richo played for the tigers last year.
I would go even further. I would put our best foward, best player and 4 time B&F winner playing in the forward line, at CHB so we dont have to kick it to him.

plugger, were the rolling eyes Emiticons designed by you by any chance?

lendog heaven · Mon 16 Mar 2009 8:22pm

get your hand off it -overrated? More like underrated. Reading from this years AFL prospectus, since he est himself in the Saints side in 2002 (2nd season) he has taken the most contested and uncontested marks in the comp- a total of 1382 , 223 more than any other player and he has kicked 318 goals, ranked 10th in the league. Get off his case - I wish we had a few more players who played their guts out every week like Roo.

onlooker · Post: # 710362Post **onlooker** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 10:10pm

Roo is our best forward by a country mile and as such he must play the key forward position but its the absolute predictability of watching it ie just about every forward move heading in his direction that drives the supporters nuts and keeps the opposition defence happy. Without going into past forward play strategies I am pretty happy with the way Milne travelled last season, Schneider has to lift and contrbute more, ditto Kosi and its becoming more urgent with him, and we need to at least try and develop medium sized forwards (hopefully in the shape of the former No 2). The quality of our mid field delivery going forward also needs to improve. On too many occassions its been Roo's talent and gut running ability to make something out s**t delivery.
Roo needs a lot more help in the forward line and I have had my whinge about where the extra effort needs to come from to give him this help. He is our best forward and is not overrated. As a parting comment I am optimistic that the arrival of the new forward coach will provide real cohesion for Roo and the other forwards this season.

Broodruff · Post: # 710366Post **Broodruff** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 10:27pm

A few people have said exactly what I've been thinking.

Is it because Roo is that good that he is shadowing any other forward options we have. Is it because we have no confidence in anyone else. Is it because we always kick to Roo that no other forward really gets a chance?

Thats why I was pretty happy to see Gilbert thrown forward, I reakon its a good move, and while I'd argue for a while that Goddard would be of more use in the midfield... If he's kicking 4 goals a week - that might force me to re-think.

And to finish it up. Yeah. "ruining' probably wasnt the BEST word, but yeah.

saintbob · Post: # 710368Post **saintbob** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 10:29pm

Probably a case of our on ballers getting their heads up and looking for other options rather than kicking to Roo 95% of the time.

SainterK · Post: # 710377Post **SainterK** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 10:52pm

I am guessing that the subject line is supposed to create shock value...

Broodruff · Post: # 710385Post **Broodruff** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 11:11pm

Somewhat, yes.

SainterK · Post: # 710389Post **SainterK** » Mon 16 Mar 2009 11:22pm

Broodruff wrote:Somewhat, yes.

Well, one could say you have succeeded...

mightysainters · Tue 17 Mar 2009 12:04am

He's not ruining our structure fact is there is no one competent in our forward line to kick it to anymore except for him.

Riewoldt best mark in the league
Kosi too slow to mark on a lead
Milne can't mark overhead
Jones not competent on the lead
Gilbert jury is still out on him in the forward line

Statsman · Post: # 710410Post **Statsman** » Tue 17 Mar 2009 8:25am

Consider how our structure ha looked without Riewoldt in the side. It hasn't exactly been a well oiled machine putting up 20 goals a game. Our forward line functions poorly at best when Riewoldt is playing, but its totally impotent when he's not out on the ground. Therefore I say the problem is not with Riewoldt, but with the midfielders, the other forwards and the structure/plan.

onlooker · Post: # 710414Post **onlooker** » Tue 17 Mar 2009 8:52am

Statsman wrote:Consider how our structure ha looked without Riewoldt in the side. It hasn't exactly been a well oiled machine putting up 20 goals a game. Our forward line functions poorly at best when Riewoldt is playing, but its totally impotent when he's not out on the ground. Therefore I say the problem is not with Riewoldt, but with the midfielders, the other forwards and the structure/plan.

Yes, I agree. It's hard to imagine how our forward line would stack up and be competitive without Riewoldt. In ther past we may have had options, mainly the G-Train with Kossi as main targets but for different reasons not viable now.

cuz60 · Post: # 710430Post **cuz60** » Tue 17 Mar 2009 9:44am

I believe part of the reason we are so roo dependant lies within the midfield. Apart from Gram and Goddard, none of our midfields kick accurately from outside 50. Montagna is a bit hit and miss.

If you go through the rest of our midfield none of them have any depth in their kicks. Ball, Lenny, Dal, Armitage CJ, McQualter, Eddy, Bakes (When fit). If you look at some of the other top teams for example, Hawthorn and Collingwood they have plenty more midfielders who are dangerous outside 50.

Teams push numbers back onto Riewoldt and Kosi safe in the knowledge that nobody is capable of kicking either a long goal or even a stab pass onto a lead. All they need to do is ensure nobody gives a handball off to gram or goddard from behind.