Reserved seat vacancies on Level 2?????

[joffaboy]

[I'm with Back from USA on this one. I've been a long time member too (since '71 I think). The administrations over our turbulent history have been blamed for all our woes and it seems nothing has changed.

If Archie was to blame for misinformation; get over it as he won't be there anymore very soon.

If we get rid of the current Administration who would you like to replace it with? And who would want to take it on with the current torrent of negativity?

What are you talking about "all the woes"???

This is a single issue thread - about how the club has tried to extort money on a lie.

Well it hasn't worked and the membership numbers are absolutely shot because of issues like this.

Anyway prior to this mob we were making profits every year. Since this bunch of fools got the reigns all we have had are losses.

Now we have lies and disinformation.

You might be comfortable with that but I am not. And apparently either are thousands of members who have not resigned.

This club will not survive unless we get rid of these incompetents.

[linz]

Which leads me to the third line of my post. With Who?

[BackFromUSA]

simple fact is that this bunch of Level 2 seat holders are not being asked to pay $125 extra for a seat (and for one less game) instead you are being asked to purchase a social club membership (with all of its benefits including finals priority) to qualify for the premium seating position just like we havde to on the wing on level 1.

Thosed who have NOT being paying social membership to gain these premium seats on level 2 have been getting a bargain and have put their pesonal gain at the expense of the club.

Thanks for bringing this all to my attention. I am now seriously looking at moving to level 2 with my group of 13. We all agree paying a $100 extra a season to get those prime viewing seats on level 2 is worth every cent.

Can I ask where all your seats were?

[Junior]

Could have sworn that the club removed the requirement for being a social club member for wing seats on level 1 in about 2001 or 2002. I have a number of family members who sit on this level and none of them are social club members any longer as it is not required.

Regardless of whether the seats on level 2 were underpriced or not the clubs communication of it was a joke. Regardless on whether there is benefits of being a social club member it is still a new requirement for those that did not have it so therfore it is being forced upon it.

I have stated my situation on here a number of times and I still shake my head that I was being forced to purchase a social club membership for my five year old son who does not even attend the football yet.

But what really gets to me is the fact that despite the fact that I was a social club member that I was told I would have to buy an extra social club membership if i wanted to transfer my sons seat into my name. I by offering to transfer my sons seat to an adult reserve seat as opposed to a junior reserved seat was actually offering the club more money than they were going to charge me, but no they were not interested and still were saying that I would need two social club memberships.

So "Back from USA" if you want my old seats they are Level 2 Aisle 31 Row T seats 64 and 65. And for the record before this I also sat on what used to be known as the social club reserved seat area on level 1 Aisle 35 and 36 and the social club requirement was definately removed after year one or two so those on level 2 were already paying a premium price. So to say it is only the same requirement as faced by those on level 1 is incorrect, there use to be an area put aside for social club members to sit on the outer side of the ground but these people did not have a reserve seat.

The club has treated it's members with no respect or loyalty and after having been a member every year since 1980 I think it was Piss Poor.

The proof will be in the Pudding, if the club got it right then no doubt the membership level will increase and level 2 will be sold out, and having sat up there for a few years now it was not very often that it was any where near full.

[RBnW]

does anyone know how many reserved seats we have on Lev 2 at the AGM they said 3000 and then another 1000 corporate dinner seats?
If there are 4000 of the best seats that the club has to sell to members in a ground that holds 55,000
What should they do
a) discount these heavily and make as little as possible
b) maximise the value
c) allow us to pay whatever we want to
d) make as much money for the club and put it back into football so that we can compete and win a Flag

Please dont hide behind the, I'm doing this on principle and then tell everyone that you are in every second post, or my kids social club shouldnt be $125 (when you most likley take your adult mate in that seat most weeks) or I got dud information from the club or show me the waiting list of 500.... all Crap
FFS we have won 1 flag in our history, we need to spend more money every year in Football and the main income is from membership and seats.......
If they are not charging the maximum amount for these 4000 seats in our 55,000 seat ground we should be sacking them......not the other way around......
Until we all get behind the club on this sort of stuff (just like Hawthorn supporters have with their club, why anyone is surprised they have 40,000 members is beyond me), then we will stay with the 1 flag we have......
I would suggest that there would not be one of us who post on here who has either sold or traded something of value where we maximised the price of that goods or service because it was scarce.....WtF do you think 4,000 of 55,000 is.....get real and more importantly get on board if you do want a flag.......they cant do it without us.....but maybe there are a lot on here who dont really want it enough.......and enjoy the suffering......
I dont buy the excuses that have been posted for not staying or buying a seat in the best place in the ground and one of only 4000 and an extra $125 that goes to the club......if you are cash strapped I can understand that...even then there are another 51,000 seats to pick from....but dont put up some of the reasons that are being peddled on here as being good for anyone other that the posters Ego.......certainly not good for the club...
So next time you decide to sell that most valuable footy card you have had for 30 years, you know that scarce one you have kept for ever.....just give it away for nothing......

[Enrico_Misso]

Doesn't hide the fact that the club tried to bully members to upgrade with this false story of the 500 waiting list.

Archie has been caught out big time.
But he doesn't care now as he has got a plumb job in an opposition code.

[RBnW]

Doesn't hide the fact that the club tried to bully members to upgrade with this false story of the 500 waiting list.

Archie has been caught out big time.
But he doesn't care now as he has got a plumb job in an opposition code.

How can it be bullying when there are 51,000 other choices of where we can sit I thought that would be just having a choice.....if you want to pay you stay where you are...if not you can choose to move to another place in the ground....
Never traded a Footy Card......

[Junior]

No problem with the club trying to maximise revenue by having the seats sold at the market rate. Told this to the club when I met with them.Seems to me there is two issues with this.

First one is there are supporters who can not afford it, they do not want to sit in one of the other cheaper seats as most have sat together in seats with their circle of friends for years. This is the fabric of football, without this the club would be doomed. Not to mention the fact that the AFL has frozen prices for 2009 due to the FGC, perhaps our clubs decsion is badly timed. What do we do if it is a group of 10 and say 1 cant afford it, bad luck go to level 1 or 3 and sit by yourself? Hardly inviting to members.

Second there is those of us who are unhappy with the communication of the change and the change in requirement not the cost. I told the club I would pay extra for my seat but they did not want to know was told I could sit elsewhere next year. Sorry but this is not a club maixmising it's revenue. I will not be forced to purchase something that I have no need for and I will not sit elsewhere by myself away from my mates. So i will go to away games to catch up with my mates.To have success in Business you need to have good communication with your stakeholders and need to be dynamic and flexible. I manage a Business for a living and I can tell you that the club could have kept my membership if they had of bothered listening and had of thought outside of the square.

And for the record I did not let let adults use my sons ticket as I am not sure how many of them would have passed as a cherub club member.

The reason this club has only won one premiership is because we have been unstable at board and admin level consistently over the years.

[joffaboy]

Thanks for bringing this all to my attention. I am now seriously looking at moving to level 2 with my group of 13. We all agree paying a $100 extra a season to get those prime viewing seats on level 2 is worth every cent.

Can I ask where all your seats were?

lol - you can have mine as well.

Thaqt just leaves 487 of the 500+ willing and eager to take my seat - its just that....

THE PATHETIC HOPELESS BULLYBOY EXTORTIONISTS HAVEN'T SOLD ALL THE SEATS TO THIS HUGE "WAITING LIST"

Mabye $125 more for one game less of ringy ringy rosey keepings off kicking backwards just doesn't appeal to all of Archies mythical hordes clammering to get his "premium" seats.

Look at the membership - going backwards at a rate of knots. Mainly because this administration treat their long time and loyal members like s.hite.

But dont despair they will always have sheep like RBnW and whicheverUSA to bleat and put up with anything they throw at them.

This club has already start the process of AFL handouts. It is starting to implode and the members are deserting.

Who can blame them?

Oh and I have the capacity to by 5 seats on L2 if I wanted. I wont reward this bullyboy morons financially. They will have to work to get my cash again.

And it sounds like there are thousands just like me.

[joffaboy]

No problem with the club trying to maximise revenue by having the seats sold at the market rate. Told this to the club when I met with them.Seems to me there is two issues with this.

First one is there are supporters who can not afford it, they do not want to sit in one of the other cheaper seats as most have sat together in seats with their circle of friends for years. This is the fabric of football, without this the club would be doomed. Not to mention the fact that the AFL has frozen prices for 2009 due to the FGC, perhaps our clubs decsion is badly timed. What do we do if it is a group of 10 and say 1 cant afford it, bad luck go to level 1 or 3 and sit by yourself? Hardly inviting to members.

Second there is those of us who are unhappy with the communication of the change and the change in requirement not the cost. I told the club I would pay extra for my seat but they did not want to know was told I could sit elsewhere next year. Sorry but this is not a club maixmising it's revenue. I will not be forced to purchase something that I have no need for and I will not sit elsewhere by myself away from my mates. So i will go to away games to catch up with my mates.To have success in Business you need to have good communication with your stakeholders and need to be dynamic and flexible. I manage a Business for a living and I can tell you that the club could have kept my membership if they had of bothered listening and had of thought outside of the square.

And for the record I did not let let adults use my sons ticket as I am not sure how many of them would have passed as a cherub club member.

The reason this club has only won one premiership is because we have been unstable at board and admin level consistently over the years.

Agree with everything said here.

The two people i have sat with for years cant afford $250 (they are a couple) for the same seats they have had for years. So because they can pay the extra money I have to sit by myself???

That was basically what Fraser wrote to me. Or plenty of L1 seats (that I dont really like). So basically - F*** off take it or leave it chump.

AND I only found this out when I got a call from my mate who was absolutely spewing about it. No communication until it was time to renew the membership.

Just snuck it in and then used some mythical waiting list to threaten and extort money from unwilling supporters.

The irony of all this is that I get this glossy brochure about Loyalty going both ways - pfft

Loyalty my arse. Loyalty is only going one way.

I am sure this mob will be scratching their head and wondering why membership is heading south.

No doubt they will blame the GFC but when you have members like Junior and the Fireman and others giving it away after being members for over thirty years you have to wonder in which direction this club is heading.

[BackFromUSA]

Thousands not signing up as members? Forgive me but in the paper this week it showed that we are a few hundered short of what we were this time last year ... and comparing the 2 pre-seasons where we remained in the pre-season cup last year ... one would assume that these well attended games last year would have meant extra memebership sales versus this year after losing in QLD and playing the remaining games at Princesses Park on a Friday afternnon with most of Melbourne at work and in Shlepparton and Port Piddleaide - hardly member (oops I mean supporter) strongholds. But lets not allow facts to get in the way of your passionate rant. By the way, I am not a sheep. Baaaaaaaaa. - ha - ha. Please refrain from making personal attacks. If you want to give up your membership / social club membership / seat / other donations - good luck to you. Your free choice. Feel free to re-join at any time.

[joffaboy]

Thousands not signing up as members? Forgive me but in the paper this week it showed that we are a few hundered short of what we were this time last year ... and comparing the 2 pre-seasons where we remained in the pre-season cup last year ... one would assume that these well attended games last year would have meant extra memebership sales versus this year after losing in QLD and playing the remaining games at Princesses Park on a Friday afternnon with most of Melbourne at work and in Shlepparton and Port Piddleaide - hardly member (oops I mean supporter) strongholds. But lets not allow facts to get in the way of your passionate rant. By the way, I am not a sheep. Baaaaaaaaa. - ha - ha. Please refrain from making personal attacks. If you want to give up your membership / social club membership / seat / other donations - good luck to you. Your free choice. Feel free to re-join at any time.

Seems like excuses to me.

As for personal attack - OK cool apologies - enjoy the footy (and my seat ).

Hope we kill em all

Go Saints

[saint66au]

Thousands not signing up as members? Forgive me but in the paper this week it showed that we are a few hundered short of what we were this time last year ... and comparing the 2 pre-seasons where we remained in the pre-season cup last year ... one would assume that these well attended games last year would have meant extra memebership sales versus this year after losing in QLD and playing the remaining games at Princesses Park on a Friday afternnon with most of Melbourne at work and in Shlepparton and Port Piddleaide - hardly member (oops I mean supporter) strongholds. But lets not allow facts to get in the way of your passionate rant. By the way, I am not a sheep. Baaaaaaaaa. - ha - ha. Please refrain from making personal attacks. If you want to give up your membership / social club membership / seat / other donations - good luck to you. Your free choice. Feel free to re-join at any time.

JUst to put the 1st part of your post in context BFUSA...we are the only Victorian Club bar Essendon to be behind last years membership tally..and I hardly think Essendon with 40,000+ members are panicking...so the drop is of far more concern than a lot of people think

We dont have a swag of exciting kids, we dont have a flag in the last 3 years..we arent Essendon or Collingwood. We are kinda unique in that respect

I reckon if you go back and have a look at the threads on this whole L2 schemozzle, youll find that the excecution is far more criticised than the plan. You cant just change the criteria for sitting in a certain area..and charge $125 in the process..without at least telling the affected people in advance!!!! Blind Freddy could tell there'd be a backlash no matter how well it was marketed, but to just assume there'd be 100% uptake and just advise "as a courtesy" that the increase would be debited is appalling marketing surely you'd agree??

The "benefits" of the SC are only value if you use them. I'm a SC member and personally I could think of nothing more boring than sitting down to a $30 three course meal in a restaurant pre-game, coaches as guests or otherwise.

[St DAC]

The "benefits" of the SC are only value if you use them. I'm a SC member and personally I could think of nothing more boring than sitting down to a $30 three course meal in a restaurant pre-game, coaches as guests or otherwise.

That's because it's much more fun trying to get Eastern to open the wallet at Livewire pre-game; hours of fun for all of us there!

[BackFromUSA]

saint66au

1. not concerned about other clubs - only comparing Saints 08 vs Saints 09

2. I think we have some very exciting kids .. Lynch, Stanley and Smith look the goods to me from video and limited training and practice games and some of the rookies look good too ... plus Ray adds run and carry

3. I totally agree it is poorly handled by the club. Very poor. No doubt.

4. IMHO the only REAL value in Social Club membership is the priority access to finals ticketing when St Kilda participates including the ONLY real chance to secure Grand Final tickets (at face - non sclaper - prices) if St Kilda participates. It is like MCC membership - most people only pay $450+ a year so they have Grand Final and Boxing day test entry ... any other usage or use of facilities during the year is purely a bonus! $125 for Social Club membership is excellent value in my eyes because of the finals, especially knowing every cent goes to the club - unlike seat revenue.

And I do expect us to play finals.

Thanks to these endless threads I have woken up to the fact that there are better seats than mine available on level 2 and for not much more ... I am sure that my group will not be only ones taking up these seats.

Level 2 on a wing is a wonderful spot to watch the footy.

[Solar]

No problem with the club trying to maximise revenue by having the seats sold at the market rate. Told this to the club when I met with them.Seems to me there is two issues with this.

First one is there are supporters who can not afford it, they do not want to sit in one of the other cheaper seats as most have sat together in seats with their circle of friends for years. This is the fabric of football, without this the club would be doomed. Not to mention the fact that the AFL has frozen prices for 2009 due to the FGC, perhaps our clubs decsion is badly timed. What do we do if it is a group of 10 and say 1 cant afford it, bad luck go to level 1 or 3 and sit by yourself? Hardly inviting to members.

Second there is those of us who are unhappy with the communication of the change and the change in requirement not the cost. I told the club I would pay extra for my seat but they did not want to know was told I could sit elsewhere next year. Sorry but this is not a club maixmising it's revenue. I will not be forced to purchase something that I have no need for and I will not sit elsewhere by myself away from my mates. So i will go to away games to catch up with my mates.To have success in Business you need to have good communication with your stakeholders and need to be dynamic and flexible. I manage a Business for a living and I can tell you that the club could have kept my membership if they had of bothered listening and had of thought outside of the square.

And for the record I did not let let adults use my sons ticket as I am not sure how many of them would have passed as a cherub club member.

The reason this club has only won one premiership is because we have been unstable at board and admin level consistently over the years.

agree with this, mainly it was how the club treated these members. They did not phase it in, their communication happened after the season happened and would not work with members to get a better outcome. I could understand why people got upset by this and the way the club suggested it had many people looking to get these seats smacked of "like it or leave it"..... we would never sell a thing at the cafe I work at if we treated our customers like that. Most businesses communicate with their stake holders and work to create a good outcome for both sides. Otherwise people just walk away.

A solution could have been something like phase it in over 2 years so that groups can work out where they want to sit. Make the social club area really good, push it and then in 2010 make it compulsary for level 2 seats. This means the groups can decide through 2009 whether they want to spend the extra or all move down a level and the club can push the benefits of the upgrade. everyone is happy.....

[saint66au]

1. not concerned about other clubs - only comparing Saints 08 vs Saints 09

2. I think we have some very exciting kids .. Lynch, Stanley and Smith look the goods to me from video and limited training and practice games and some of the rookies look good too ... plus Ray adds run and carry

1. Unfortunately our membership numbers IRT other Clubs is relevant...especially if we are going backwards and everyone else is going forward

2 Of the group you listed, only Lynch is any sort of chance to play in 2009 barring a horrendous imjury run Id reckon....the other 2 didnt even play in a NAB game. What I meant to say is a bunch of kids whove made an impression in senior footy..and are causing great optimism in sides whove been thru a dry spell..Rich and Carl are the obvious examples.

[joffaboy]

Thanks to these endless threads I have woken up to the fact that there are better seats than mine available on level 2 and for not much more ... I am sure that my group will not be only ones taking up these seats.

Level 2 on a wing is a wonderful spot to watch the footy.

So you have never known about L2 before theses threads???



And lol good luck getting 13 L2 seats together on a wing. LOL.

Ita not the wings that you will get but in the pockets because thats where the vacancies will be. Even then you will be spread out all over the shop.

Oh the club will love you lot.

[BackFromUSA]

i am confused.

people are leaving level 2 in droves yet I will struggle to find 13 together?

i would be happy with it over 3 rows 4 / 4 / 5 or 6 / 7 over two rows ... even 5 and 8 like we have it now ... doesnt have to be 13 seats in a row ... in fact we dont want that at all ...

will check it out Monday

yes i knew about level 2 but my previous attempts to get moved up there with all 13 of us have failed.

but with people leaving in droves I think we might be a chance!

thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[Animal Enclosure]

simple fact is that this bunch of Level 2 seat holders are not being asked to pay $125 extra for a seat (and for one less game) instead you are being asked to purchase a social club membership (with all of its benefits including finals priority) to qualify for the premium seating position just like we havde to on the wing on level 1.

Thosed who have NOT being paying social membership to gain these premium seats on level 2 have been getting a bargain and have put their pesonal gain at the expense of the club.

Thanks for bringing this all to my attention. I am now seriously looking at moving to level 2 with my group of 13. We all agree paying a $100 extra a season to get those prime viewing seats on level 2 is worth every cent.

Can I ask where all your seats were?

That's absolute BS & quite offensive. We on L2 pay more for the benefit of our prime seats (definitely no BARGAIN) and how do we gain at the expense of the club exactly??? The offer to pay a significant premium to sit in these seats was made by the club & we took that offer up.

How you can say we are not being forced to pay an extra $125 ??? I don't recall the club stating 'we'd really like you to pay the extra but you can still keep your seat if you want to'. No they said pay it or p1ss off somewhere else.

My wife & I are lucky enough to be able to afford the $250 inflicted upon us. Many others may not have & you saying that they have been bludging off the club is very ordinary.

I hope you stay where you are & leave us on L2 to our selfishness.

[Bernard Shakey]

BackFromUSA,

I think your monicker says it all.
You've obviously spent too much time in USA, where only the rich can afford to go to sporting events.

The beauty of AFL is that the man in the street can afford to go to the footy. It's now getting much more difficult for families to afford it.
If families can't afford it and kids stop going, this club and eventually the whole comp is farked.

Hope you and your 13 rich bastards enjoy level 2 this year.

[GreatNo9s]

One of the things I find hilarious about this site is that if one of the long time posters repeats something often enough it becomes fact

Eg, and I deliberately paraphrase, "they lied to us about the 500 waiting list" - this then becomes a statement of fact eg "the waiting list never existed"

The below I know as fact

- 1400 level 2 members were not social club members in 2008
- more than 1000 have taken up the social club memebrship to stay on L2
- a few hundred L2 members have dropped out from L2 but stayed on as members (about half have taken level 1 reserved seats)
- about a hundred L2 members have dropped off altogether
- more than a few hundred have moved up to L2 from level 1

- the Club had a waiting list of 500 people for Level 2
- many of these have taken up the L2 seats
- a large number of the 500 have taken up the 300 Club option

- the Club's new L2 seats (the corporate ones) have sold pretty well (mainly to existing Saints corporates) and there a 100 or so of these left
- Cowboy Neale's Halo Coterie is flying

I trust this assists the debate...

and no doubt the inevitable questions of how do you know, prove etc will predictably come tumbling in from the conspiracy theorists (this I also love about this site !!)

[BackFromUSA]

saint66au - membership deserves a new thread but having had quite some experience with this in my professional life, I can assure you it is not as black and white as you may think. The membership numbers are tied up with sponsorship deals and servicicng costs. Now what does that mean? Some sponsorships involve a large package of memberships. it is my understanding that St Kilda has decided not to do this with Jeldwen. It may also not be doing tis with other sponsors. Other clubs do it with major and all levels of sponsorships. Hawthorn do it. Carlton does it big time. A number of clubs with big boosts are also those clubs with new major sponsors. It doesnt mean they have gained EXTRA revenue from membership, rather it means that if sponsors receive say 2000 membership cards across all levels ... it boosts the membership numbers but it was money already received through the sponsor anway. So why not include it in sponsorship packages? Because every membership issued (even to sponsors) costs money. A cost with no income = a loss.

The membership measure that matters is:

income from membership - servicing costs = profit from memberships

It is actually possible to have St.Kilda with say 30,000 members and another club say Calton have 35,000 and St.Kilda make more membership reveue and profits. why?

1) the type of memberships - full, concessions, interstate (i.e. the mic determines the revenue received)

2) how many of the memberships were issued at zero revenue (i.e. given to sponsors as ssponsor benefits and the income recorded in sponsorship revenue rather than membership revenue.

3) what the servicing costs are per membership - which involves everything from marketing costs to generate the memberships, the goodies received as a member (and the take up %s) and the ongoing servicing required for members during the season

As I say ... not on topic, but worth discussing

[Bernard Shakey]

Big deal GreatNo9s.
All you're saying is that the club was right to say stuff you to anyone that complained.

[GreatNo9s]

No Bernard I'm not saying the communication process was right, I'm saying the demand for these premium seats was a key factor in the decision making

The commercial return for these seats (I note the Club continues to refer to "as the best seats in the house") which Archie referred to at the AGM is actually working for the benefit of the Club

BackfromUSA is right in his post

Did you know Collingwood has 9,500 AFL Club Support Members ? Saints have 1,300
Take these out and right now the Pies have 2,000 more members than us right now