The Modern Game

[yipper]

I left knowing that we had the right man coaching us and DEVELOPING our list!

Poor list development is why we slid backwards to begin with, which is what Lyon has been addressing ever since he arrived!

Well should he perhaps be 'list manager' then seeing as someone else is being paid to do this?

We have a List Manager. And it's not Ross Lyon.

Lyon's job is to coach the list we have. And he's not doing it very well at all.

so what isn't he doing well???
explain

yeah, please do.

[Cairnsman]

He took us to a preliminary final in his second year. If he was no good we wouldn't have got that far with the players available last year.

I actually think that the players we had available was the reason we played in a prelim.

Argumentative your honour!

It is a known fact amongst the physiologist fraternity that the human mind finds it far easier to be negative than positive. Moreover they agree that that is easier for the human mind to critique an existing idea rather than generate a new idea.

[rodgerfox]

It is a known fact amongst the physiologist fraternity that the human mind finds it far easier to be negative than positive. Moreover they agree that that is easier for the human mind to critique an existing idea rather than generate a new idea.

Does that theory extend to footy clubs?

I'd suggest that it's far easier for footy fans to be positive towards their club, rather than negative.

It's called 'rose coloured glasses'.

For a hard core, die hard Saints fan to criticise his club, is far harder than to simply accept being mediocre and toeing the 'next year we'll right' line.

We won't be right next year. We're performing poorly. We're recruiting poorly. We're playing poorly.

There is nothing that fills me with hope at all.


The only hope we have, is that like last year, Roo hits a rich vein of form at some point and carries us across the line.

If that doesn't happen, our results will be the same as last year when he wasn't at his best.

[Cairnsman]

In the modern game the success of a footy club relies on good financial management first and premierships second. You could argue that a better than even win-loss ratio should come second and premierships third.

The Saints have survived for over 100 years so they must be doing something right.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

It is a known fact amongst the physiologist fraternity that the human mind finds it far easier to be negative than positive. Moreover they agree that that is easier for the human mind to critique an existing idea rather than generate a new idea.

Does that theory extend to footy clubs?

I'd suggest that it's far easier for footy fans to be positive towards their club, rather than negative.

It's called 'rose coloured glasses'.

For a hard core, die hard Saints fan to criticise his club, is far harder than to simply accept being mediocre and toeing the 'next year we'll right' line.

We won't be right next year. We're performing poorly. We're recruiting poorly. We're playing poorly.

There is nothing that fills me with hope at all.


The only hope we have, is that like last year, Roo hits a rich vein of form at some point and carries us across the line.

If that doesn't happen, our results will be the same as last year when he wasn't at his best.

how are we playing poorly???

[markp]

There is nothing that fills me with hope at all.

Are you married?

[Cairnsman]

There is nothing that fills me with hope at all.

Are you married?

[MC Gusto]

It is a known fact amongst the physiologist fraternity that the human mind finds it far easier to be negative than positive. Moreover they agree that that is easier for the human mind to critique an existing idea rather than generate a new idea.

Does that theory extend to footy clubs?

I'd suggest that it's far easier for footy fans to be positive towards their club, rather than negative.

It's called 'rose coloured glasses'.

For a hard core, die hard Saints fan to criticise his club, is far harder than to simply accept being mediocre and toeing the 'next year we'll right' line.

We won't be right next year. We're performing poorly. We're recruiting poorly. We're playing poorly.

There is nothing that fills me with hope at all.


The only hope we have, is that like last year, Roo hits a rich vein of form at some point and carries us across the line.

If that doesn't happen, our results will be the same as last year when he wasn't at his best.

you keep asking for facts from us but your argument is based purely n emotion. back it up with facts.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

It is a known fact amongst the physiologist fraternity that the human mind finds it far easier to be negative than positive. Moreover they agree that that is easier for the human mind to critique an existing idea rather than generate a new idea.

Does that theory extend to footy clubs?

I'd suggest that it's far easier for footy fans to be positive towards their club, rather than negative.

It's called 'rose coloured glasses'.

For a hard core, die hard Saints fan to criticise his club, is far harder than to simply accept being mediocre and toeing the 'next year we'll right' line.

We won't be right next year. We're performing poorly. We're recruiting poorly. We're playing poorly.

There is nothing that fills me with hope at all.


The only hope we have, is that like last year, Roo hits a rich vein of form at some point and carries us across the line.

If that doesn't happen, our results will be the same as last year when he wasn't at his best.

I think rose coloured glasses are the second easiest option, and only tend to be more common among the devoted than the relaxed fan.

The easiest option, especially amongst St Kilda fans is overt and regular negativity, which is manifest and observable not only on this forum but regularly at games.

What other team with as much reason for hope as the Saints has as many people regularly turn up and pay money just to hurl abuse at Raph Clarke, Jason Blake, Justin Koschitzke etc.... while none of these are above criticism, I've come to accept over the past 5 years that for many, even a premiership probably won't change the negative attitudes that they've been conditioned too.

These people often pretend to be realists. They aren't. They're anything but: a realist can enjoy the upside in a glass half full, or 3/4 full, or even just not empty... the pessimistic St Kilda supporter wants to know if we'll win the '09 premiership as if the disapointments have entitled them.

[MC Gusto]

also i heavily criticised us under Gt. Nailed us under Tiny Tim and and some isues with Kenny sheldon.

Alves i didn't mind and rossy i have faith. why? because i know the game and played it better than you. fact

[Teflon]

I left knowing that we had the right man coaching us and DEVELOPING our list!

Poor list development is why we slid backwards to begin with, which is what Lyon has been addressing ever since he arrived!

Well should he perhaps be 'list manager' then seeing as someone else is being paid to do this?

We have a List Manager. And it's not Ross Lyon.

Lyon's job is to coach the list we have. And he's not doing it very well at all.

so what isn't he doing well???

explain

Now there is THE question.

Lets have it Dodg...have you got the "passion" in you for on more burst......just one more insight into the inner working of the Saints coaching box and what Ross Lyon is failing at?

Do tell - we are all ears????

[rodgerfox]

Now there is THE question.

Lets have it Dodg...have you got the "passion" in you for on more burst......just one more insight into the inner working of the Saints coaching box and what Ross Lyon is failing at?

Do tell - we are all ears????

He is recruiting average/poor players.

His game plan doesn't win games.

He doesn't get his message through to the players.

He isn't get the best out of the good players.

There is no improvement in average players.

He is arrogant in the media and with journalists.

He can't retain assistant coaches.

He can't win games when our stars don't dominate the game.

He isn't developing kids.

[Saints43]

I left knowing that we had the right man coaching us and DEVELOPING our list!

Poor list development is why we slid backwards to begin with, which is what Lyon has been addressing ever since he arrived!

Well should he perhaps be 'list manager' then seeing as someone else is being paid to do this?

We have a List Manager. And it's not Ross Lyon.

Lyon's job is to coach the list we have. And he's not doing it very well at all.

so what isn't he doing well???
explain

yeah, please do.

Hang on, this thread started as a homily to RL having (perhaps) prepared us for this seasons style of football.
This is clearly incorrect as RL stated that he got it wrong in 2007. So very doubtful that this was a seen as a foundation for the style of football that will be played in 2009. We don't even know what style of football will be played successfully this season.
The premise that this defensive know-how has been implemented has been disputed by RF saying that our defensive record over the past two seasons is no better. This has been countered by saying the list is significantly poorer than when RL took over.
It's the same argument that this forum has disputed for two years now.
It's almost certainly the case that those who claimed the dramatic decline in performance in 2007 was due to list deficiencies got that incorrect. The list without major overhaul finished top four in 2008.
As noted many times the 2008 finished reasonably strongly but was still inconsistent.
Inconsistency has been the clubs biggest problem. Our best and our worst is too far apart.
And this was more pronounced in 2007-2008 than ever before so I would submit that as something that RL has not done well. (Prepare - does he kick the ball argument.)
It is pretty hard to judge RL for anything in 2009 as the season hasn't started - which is why the premise of the opening argument is stupid.

[Teflon]

I left knowing that we had the right man coaching us and DEVELOPING our list!

Poor list development is why we slid backwards to begin with, which is what Lyon has been addressing ever since he arrived!

Well should he perhaps be 'list manager' then seeing as someone else is being paid to do this?

We have a List Manager. And it's not Ross Lyon.

Lyon's job is to coach the list we have. And he's not doing it very well at all.

so what isn't he doing well???
explain

yeah, please do.

Hang on, this thread started as a homily to RL having (perhaps) prepared us for this seasons style of football.
This is clearly incorrect as RL stated that he got it wrong in 2007. So very doubtful that this was a seen as a foundation for the style of football that will be played in 2009. We don't even know what style of football will be played successfully this season.
The premise that this defensive know-how has been implemented has been disputed by RF saying that our defensive record over the past two seasons is no better. This has been countered by saying the list is significantly poorer than when RL took over.
It's the same argument that this forum has disputed for two years now.
It's almost certainly the case that those who claimed the dramatic decline in performance in 2007 was due to list deficiencies got that incorrect. The list without major overhaul finished top four in 2008.
As noted many times the 2008 finished reasonably strongly but was still inconsistent.
Inconsistency has been the clubs biggest problem. Our best and our worst is too far apart.
And this was more pronounced in 2007-2008 than ever before so I would submit that as something that RL has not done well. (Prepare - does he kick the ball argument.)
It is pretty hard to judge RL for anything in 2009 as the season hasn't started - which is why the premise of the opening argument is stupid.

And round we go again.

Is the premise of the opening argument wrong - or do you just not get it? (maybe its me your facsinated with...Im flattered... )

Regardles, again we have SENIOR AFL COACHES (MALTHOUSE THE LATEST TODAY) telling us the game HAS ALREADY CHANGED and gone more defensively. And then we have you....telling us.....you dont think this has been proven yet.......fascinating. What exactly are your AFL credentials cause (no offence) I think I'll listen to the experts over you on this one.

So assume 4 AFL coaches know what they are on about and you dont (close your eyes and just try it for 1 moment). Lets say the game IS now based on more defensive footy and 2009 MAY see that exagerrated again (after all we have had Essendon - one of the all out attack sides of 08 - ALREADY come out and tell us they will HAVE to play more defensively than they'd like this year...) Assuming that.......and given Lyon has been instilling a more defensive game plan at St Kilda so far in his entire tenure.....is it inconceivable that this may just place us ahead of many sides IF the game continues its defensive trend? That IS the premise of the OP....it shouldnt be that hard and yes....its a premise. I dont mind you disagreeing - fair enough - but if you dont get it just say it.

Your counter to the premise so far?

Ross Lyon has no imagination or innovation.
Ross Lyon has and never has had a plan.
Ross Lyon admitted publicly hes changed his plan AFTER "external pressure" (a lie later admitted)..
Ross Lyons already failed (caused he admitted to altering his game plan) - in your world that means hes thrown out his entire footballing philosophy - I certainly see much the same game plan hes had since day 1 with minor changes only. Again is being adaptable as a coach really a failure?

Yet somehow through that RF and yourself (could be one and the same.....frighteningly similar simplistic logic used) are trying to tell us this list is every bit as good as 04/05 cause they made the prelim in 2008...yet STILL that was in spite of Lyon caue he doesnt know what hes doing and has never had a plan? has not developed kids, has recruited poorly blah blah blah. You two oughta be locked up together....bizarre.

I dont mind disagreeing but arguments should at least have some point - RF I understand...to him its not about the topic....its about him "look at me" factor.

Your counter arguments simply make no sense and really boil down to your dislike of Lyon (and I suspect me). Please move on from that, stay on topic and free your mind to give us the beautiful football knowledge I know you have inside.

I believe in you....

[Mr X from the West]

He took us to a preliminary final in his second year. If he was no good we wouldn't have got that far with the players available last year.

I actually think that the players we had available was the reason we played in a prelim.

Argumentative your honour!

It is a known fact amongst the physiologist fraternity that the human mind finds it far easier to be negative than positive. Moreover they agree that that is easier for the human mind to critique an existing idea rather than generate a new idea.

What does a "physiologist" know about the human mind, FFS!

Sheeesh.

[Cairnsman]

I left knowing that we had the right man coaching us and DEVELOPING our list!

Poor list development is why we slid backwards to begin with, which is what Lyon has been addressing ever since he arrived!

Well should he perhaps be 'list manager' then seeing as someone else is being paid to do this?

We have a List Manager. And it's not Ross Lyon.

Lyon's job is to coach the list we have. And he's not doing it very well at all.

so what isn't he doing well???
explain

yeah, please do.

Hang on, this thread started as a homily to RL having (perhaps) prepared us for this seasons style of football.
This is clearly incorrect as RL stated that he got it wrong in 2007. So very doubtful that this was a seen as a foundation for the style of football that will be played in 2009. We don't even know what style of football will be played successfully this season.
The premise that this defensive know-how has been implemented has been disputed by RF saying that our defensive record over the past two seasons is no better. This has been countered by saying the list is significantly poorer than when RL took over.
It's the same argument that this forum has disputed for two years now.
It's almost certainly the case that those who claimed the dramatic decline in performance in 2007 was due to list deficiencies got that incorrect. The list without major overhaul finished top four in 2008.
As noted many times the 2008 finished reasonably strongly but was still inconsistent.
Inconsistency has been the clubs biggest problem. Our best and our worst is too far apart.
And this was more pronounced in 2007-2008 than ever before so I would submit that as something that RL has not done well. (Prepare - does he kick the ball argument.)
It is pretty hard to judge RL for anything in 2009 as the season hasn't started - which is why the premise of the opening argument is stupid.

And round we go again.

Is the premise of the opening argument wrong - or do you just not get it? (maybe its me your facsinated with...Im flattered... )

Regardles, again we have SENIOR AFL COACHES (MALTHOUSE THE LATEST TODAY) telling us the game HAS ALREADY CHANGED and gone more defensively. And then we have you....telling us.....you dont think this has been proven yet.......fascinating. What exactly are your AFL credentials cause (no offence) I think I'll listen to the experts over you on this one.

So assume 4 AFL coaches know what they are on about and you dont (close your eyes and just try it for 1 moment). Lets say the game IS now based on more defensive footy and 2009 MAY see that exagerrated again (after all we have had Essendon - one of the all out attack sides of 08 - ALREADY come out and tell us they will HAVE to play more defensively than they'd like this year...) Assuming that.......and given Lyon has been instilling a more defensive game plan at St Kilda so far in his entire tenure.....is it inconceivable that this may just place us ahead of many sides IF the game continues its defensive trend? That IS the premise of the OP....it shouldnt be that hard and yes....its a premise. I dont mind you disagreeing - fair enough - but if you dont get it just say it.

Your counter to the premise so far?

Ross Lyon has no imagination or innovation.
Ross Lyon has and never has had a plan.
Ross Lyon admitted publicly hes changed his plan AFTER "external pressure" (a lie later admitted)..
Ross Lyons already failed (caused he admitted to altering his game plan) - in your world that means hes thrown out his entire footballing philosophy - I certainly see much the same game plan hes had since day 1 with minor changes only. Again is being adaptable as a coach really a failure?

Yet somehow through that RF and yourself (could be one and the same.....frighteningly similar simplistic logic used) are trying to tell us this list is every bit as good as 04/05 cause they made the prelim in 2008...yet STILL that was in spite of Lyon caue he doesnt know what hes doing and has never had a plan? has not developed kids, has recruited poorly blah blah blah. You two oughta be locked up together....bizarre.

I dont mind disagreeing but arguments should at least have some point - RF I understand...to him its not about the topic....its about him "look at me" factor.

Your counter arguments simply make no sense.

not only do the not make sense they just don't have any substance.

[Saints43]

Your counter to the premise so far?

Ross Lyon has no imagination or innovation.
Ross Lyon has and never has had a plan.
Ross Lyon admitted publicly hes changed his plan AFTER "external pressure" (a lie later admitted)..
Ross Lyons already failed (caused he admitted to altering his game plan) - in your world that means hes thrown out his entire footballing philosophy - I certainly see much the same game plan hes had since day 1 with minor changes only. Again is being adaptable as a coach really a failure?

This is what makes it so difficult. You see what you want to see. Hence the opening post.

I did say that "Ross Lyon has no imagination or innovation." or similar. Well done.

I did not say that RL didn't change the 2007 gameplan due to external pressure. I said that there was no quote as per your post. This is similar to saying that any suggestion Elvis Presley took drugs is a lie as there is no quote on the internet stating "I took a whole lotta drugs, uh huh" as requested.

RL has stated that he is changing his gameplan three times in less than three years. He has stated that in 2007 he got it wrong. Just because you thought it was good doesn't mean you should defend something RL doesn't.

Love what he does by all means but please don't subject the rest of us to your fantasies. Praise him when the team is playing well. Stand back from your past when the team isn't.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

Now there is THE question.

Lets have it Dodg...have you got the "passion" in you for on more burst......just one more insight into the inner working of the Saints coaching box and what Ross Lyon is failing at?

Do tell - we are all ears????

He is recruiting average/poor players.

His game plan doesn't win games.

He doesn't get his message through to the players.

He isn't get the best out of the good players.

There is no improvement in average players.

He is arrogant in the media and with journalists.

He can't retain assistant coaches.

He can't win games when our stars don't dominate the game.

He isn't developing kids.

He is recruiting average/poor players.

you need to give up alot to get a good player nowadays...its bloody difficult to get someone even somewhat decent for free...teams dont want to trade...hence the declines in trades last year to 6...too risky...not worth it

His game plan doesn't win games.

for starters we won more games than we lost...admittedly we took a while to get going in games, ut rome wasnt built in a day...under gt we played full out attacking football without defence...we couldnt squeeze and shut out a team...we would never have won a flag under gt...players who rpeviously never really worried or felt the need to play defensive shut down football now are learning...some might argue a fair few years too late...

he is creating a better all around football squad capable of playing both attacking and defensive

He doesn't get his message through to the players.

yes he does...hence the low scores you are whinging about???

He isn't get the best out of the good players.

having to re-program a few takes time...this will keep us in good stead for the longer term...not shorter term

There is no improvement in average players.

like who???

He is arrogant in the media and with journalists.

who cares???? malthouse and sheedy spoke in riddles...laidley comes across as a bogan...matthews yelled and had smug arrogance...voss sounds clueless

all coaches come across differently...

mark thompson blah blah blah point made

He can't retain assistant coaches.

not many clubs can...truth is assistant coaches might head to clubs where (if they have senior aspirations) might go to a club in trouble...ready to take over and put their hand up

todd viney left the hawks and went to adelaide...catch my drift???

He can't win games when our stars don't dominate the game.

thats the point of having stars...they win you games...they are better than most due to having a bigger influence on a team's performance...

He isn't developing kids

we had a poor few years pre-rl....we are now attempting to fill the void of that nd no doubting its hurt us...however what's done is done and we have a few good'uns coming through

if anyone said to me the eljay connors is a chance at actually making it i would have pointed and laughed...however he is seemingly being developed well...he is a chance...

[SainterK]

It is a known fact amongst the physiologist fraternity that the human mind finds it far easier to be negative than positive. Moreover they agree that that is easier for the human mind to critique an existing idea rather than generate a new idea.

Does that theory extend to footy clubs?

I'd suggest that it's far easier for footy fans to be positive towards their club, rather than negative.

It's called 'rose coloured glasses'.

For a hard core, die hard Saints fan to criticise his club, is far harder than to simply accept being mediocre and toeing the 'next year we'll right' line.

We won't be right next year. We're performing poorly. We're recruiting poorly. We're playing poorly.

There is nothing that fills me with hope at all.


The only hope we have, is that like last year, Roo hits a rich vein of form at some point and carries us across the line.

If that doesn't happen, our results will be the same as last year when he wasn't at his best.

Well there you have it Rogerfox, it's all about hope. Being such a personal emotion, it's not something that can be argued on a forum. Hope and expectation will always vary in degree amongst supporters, expect much or expect little....then enjoy the ride.

[Teflon]

Your counter to the premise so far?

Ross Lyon has no imagination or innovation.
Ross Lyon has and never has had a plan.
Ross Lyon admitted publicly hes changed his plan AFTER "external pressure" (a lie later admitted)..
Ross Lyons already failed (caused he admitted to altering his game plan) - in your world that means hes thrown out his entire footballing philosophy - I certainly see much the same game plan hes had since day 1 with minor changes only. Again is being adaptable as a coach really a failure?

This is what makes it so difficult. You see what you want to see. Hence the opening post.

I did say that "Ross Lyon has no imagination or innovation." or similar. Well done.

I did not say that RL didn't change the 2007 gameplan due to external pressure. I said that there was no quote as per your post. This is similar to saying that any suggestion Elvis Presley took drugs is a lie as there is no quote on the internet stating "I took a whole lotta drugs, uh huh" as requested.

RL has stated that he is changing his gameplan three times in less than three years. He has stated that in 2007 he got it wrong. Just because you thought it was good doesn't mean you should defend something RL doesn't.

Love what he does by all means but please don't subject the rest of us to your fantasies. Praise him when the team is playing well. Stand back from your past when the team isn't.

Your counter to the premise so far?

Ross Lyon has no imagination or innovation.
Ross Lyon has and never has had a plan.
Ross Lyon admitted publicly hes changed his plan AFTER "external pressure" (a lie later admitted)..
Ross Lyons already failed (caused he admitted to altering his game plan) - in your world that means hes thrown out his entire footballing philosophy - I certainly see much the same game plan hes had since day 1 with minor changes only. Again is being adaptable as a coach really a failure?

This is what makes it so difficult. You see what you want to see. Hence the opening post.

Your strange. I see what makes sense to me - its my perception, its going to differ to yours......what about that cant you undrestand?

I do believe Lyon HAS instilled additional defensiveness into our game plan - I think that will hold us in good stead should the game continue to go on such a defensive bent. If thats seeing what I want to see to you bad luck. Its my opinion on a football opinion based website....wheres the shock here?

Im not alone in viewing Lyon as instilling more defense into our game and Im not alone in veiwing the modern game as already headed to a greater defensive focus....so wheres the msyetry there you cant grasp Sherlock?

I did say that "Ross Lyon has no imagination or innovation." or similar. Well done.

Thanks I do what I can to help. But you accuse me os seeing only what I wanna see and then comeout with this ? How would you know if Ross Lyon has no imagination?

I did not say that RL didn't change the 2007 gameplan due to external pressure. I said that there was no quote as per your post. This is similar to saying that any suggestion Elvis Presley took drugs is a lie as there is no quote on the internet stating "I took a whole lotta drugs, uh huh" as requested.

I apologise I couldnt get the link from Ross to Elvis...Im sure its there...it cant be the hair...

RL has stated that he is changing his gameplan three times in less than three years. He has stated that in 2007 he got it wrong. Just because you thought it was good doesn't mean you should defend something RL doesn't.

Ross Lyon has changed his game plan - so what? I will wager hes not the only AFL coach to alter his game plan over 3 years - so what? IMO its got to evolve the game clearly has. Its also got to evolve dependent on the cattle he has at his disposal (read Malthouse view on a game plan aided by list capabilities).

Love what he does by all means but please don't subject the rest of us to your fantasies. Praise him when the team is playing well. Stand back from your past when the team isn't.

I do like Lyons style and do believe when we get the balance between defence/attack right we look very very good. Ive also criticised aspects of our game he needs to improve (consistency, fwd line/delivery) - its my opinion nothing more/less (Im also concerned at what constitutes a fantasy for you....you'll need to work through that...)

Im yet to hear any praise from you for anything hes done/doing.....if my respect for Lyon is "love" yours clearly is an unhealthy focus on "dislike"....time for some perspective I think.

[rodgerfox]

He is recruiting average/poor players.

His game plan doesn't win games.

He doesn't get his message through to the players.

He isn't get the best out of the good players.

There is no improvement in average players.

He is arrogant in the media and with journalists.

He can't retain assistant coaches.

He can't win games when our stars don't dominate the game.

He isn't developing kids.

He is recruiting average/poor players.

you need to give up alot to get a good player nowadays...its bloody difficult to get someone even somewhat decent for free...teams dont want to trade...hence the declines in trades last year to 6...too risky...not worth it

His game plan doesn't win games.

for starters we won more games than we lost...admittedly we took a while to get going in games, ut rome wasnt built in a day...under gt we played full out attacking football without defence...we couldnt squeeze and shut out a team...we would never have won a flag under gt...players who rpeviously never really worried or felt the need to play defensive shut down football now are learning...some might argue a fair few years too late...

he is creating a better all around football squad capable of playing both attacking and defensive

He doesn't get his message through to the players.

yes he does...hence the low scores you are whinging about???

He isn't get the best out of the good players.

having to re-program a few takes time...this will keep us in good stead for the longer term...not shorter term

There is no improvement in average players.

like who???

He is arrogant in the media and with journalists.

who cares???? malthouse and sheedy spoke in riddles...laidley comes across as a bogan...matthews yelled and had smug arrogance...voss sounds clueless

all coaches come across differently...

mark thompson blah blah blah point made

He can't retain assistant coaches.

not many clubs can...truth is assistant coaches might head to clubs where (if they have senior aspirations) might go to a club in trouble...ready to take over and put their hand up

todd viney left the hawks and went to adelaide...catch my drift???

He can't win games when our stars don't dominate the game.

thats the point of having stars...they win you games...they are better than most due to having a bigger influence on a team's performance...

He isn't developing kids

we had a poor few years pre-rl....we are now attempting to fill the void of that nd no doubting its hurt us...however what's done is done and we have a few good'uns coming through

if anyone said to me the eljay connors is a chance at actually making it i would have pointed and laughed...however he is seemingly being developed well...he is a chance...

Excuse the monstrous quoting of a post.

You've just agreed with one all bar one or two points. The only thing you've done is make excuses for why he isn't doing these things well.

You've also dragged up GT for some odd reason. Although this is common in arguments where people quite clearly know Lyon isn't cutting it like some declared he would. When in doubt - drag GT into and it and say 'but he's better than GT'.

Unfortunately for you, most have moved on. So even if it made one iota of difference to Lyon's performance and ability, being better than GT is simply irrelevant.

Lyon is not performing well in any area. Apart from keeping a few stubborn GT haters happy, and a few other die hard Saints fans who will support the head coach no matter what.

[Saints43]

Im yet to hear any praise from you for anything hes done/doing.....if my respect for Lyon is "love" yours clearly is an unhealthy focus on "dislike"....time for some perspective I think.

When a coach is appointed contrary to the process put in place by the recruitment company employed to make the appointment*, acts like a two bit smart-arse while making a mistake with the gameplan (in 2007 as admitted by RL - and noted by many SS posters who attend St Kilda matches), when questioned about commitment first says 'I didn't seek the job' rather than express excitement at coaching my club, misses the finals due to gameplan implemented, has my club playing painful to watch football 80% of the time (it's worse live than on telly replays) - you seem surprised that people are not falling all over themselves to proclaim what a good job he's doing.

You have to remember I am not in a position to have an immediate empathy towards him because he used play for the team I supported.

I praised him for publicly naming some of the more senior players as a source of improvement this season. Started the thread. There you go…

And when I believe he's doing a good job there will be even more.

* Used to be a point of consternation on this site.

[MC Gusto]

roger

'strength through loyalty'

these words and their meaning underpin our great club.

I would like you to explain how you, your behaviour and your comments represent 'strength through loyalty'.

I argue that you sir, are far more representative of a richmond supporter. One quite happy to take the easy option and turn on their own when times are bad. One who will do nothing but assume failure and one who quite frankly does not represent the great st kilda football club which is so dear to my heart.
By the way your comments regarding RL early which you list as facts are in fact not. They represent your opinion..please try not to confuse the two.

[rodgerfox]

......One quite happy to take the easy option and turn on their own when times are bad......

One of the issues I see, is that I don't see anyone at the club these days who I consider 'my own'. I don't see Saints people. I see employess of a business, in an industry.

By the way your comments regarding RL early which you list as facts are in fact not. They represent your opinion..please try not to confuse the two.

Of they're my opinion. I was asked for it, so I gave it.

And I haven't seen any evidence at all to suggest my opinion is wrong.

[MC Gusto]

......One quite happy to take the easy option and turn on their own when times are bad......

One of the issues I see, is that I don't see anyone at the club these days who I consider 'my own'. I don't see Saints people. I see employess of a business, in an industry.

By the way your comments regarding RL early which you list as facts are in fact not. They represent your opinion..please try not to confuse the two.

Of they're my opinion. I was asked for it, so I gave it.

And I haven't seen any evidence at all to suggest my opinion is wrong.

you didn't answer my question. 'strength through loyalty' - explain to me how you represent those words