The Modern Game

[Teflon]

Watching the games so far and best highlighted by last nights circle work I must say I am amazed at how many sides 'appear' to be NOW trying what Id a call a most Saints like game style.

You know - chip round, fast break forward, get there and theres no fwd, turn it over and get shot on the rebound (ok to be fair when it doesnt work thats what it looks like - when it does work it looks quite slick)

Its very basketball and Im not sure Im a fan - I miss what footy WAS about - that IMO was a 1 on 1 contest where the indivual skill in beating an opponent heralded heroes of all different shapes and sizes - and not just wispy, clinical athletes who can run all day...and who just need to be taught how to be a footballer......

This so called Hawks zone supposedly has a lot to do with it.

Regardless I will say this: IF the game is gone this way then IMO Lyon is to at least be commended - he has drilled more defensiveness into this side from day 1......just maybe we are ahead of the pack game plan wise this time.....and not purely emulating a Brisbane effort from years ago.

Its why I have so much hope for Kozi. A game style like this IMO demands a rare forward (rare for nowadays and thats someone who can stand their grand - often in outnumbered pack situations cause they are left on their own down fwd) and take a contested mark or 3 to break a game open. He can do this.

I have seen patches where we attack/tackle ruthlessly and look awesome also into attack. Ive only seen it for periods. If this is it.....its gotta work this year. As others have said,I have also seen us struggle for some time in being able to bring the ball into fwd 50 with any real smooth style.

Gonna be interesting to see if we are ahead of the pack a little or if another side develops a counter to this ultra defensive new modern game.

[Saints43]

A post of absolute desperation.

It's three weeks into the pre-season. Players have been on the running track and barely touched a football. We have seen nothing of how teams will be playing in Round 4.

RL hasn't been divining the future. He hasn't had a masterplan that is coming to fruition - getting ahead of the pack. The plan was wrong in 2007 - according to RL. RL announced a change at the 2007 AGM for the 2008 season due to external club dissatisfaction. 2009 he has announced that we will be handballing through the corridor.

RL is a very conservative man. Expect no innovation, invention. All this hard-man, deep thinker stuff is in some SS posters imaginations - probably a carry over from playing day memories of him.

[Teflon]

A post of absolute desperation.

It's three weeks into the pre-season. Players have been on the running track and barely touched a football. We have seen nothing of how teams will be playing in Round 4.

RL hasn't been divining the future. He hasn't had a masterplan that is coming to fruition - getting ahead of the pack. The plan was wrong in 2007 - according to RL. RL announced a change at the 2007 AGM for the 2008 season due to external club dissatisfaction. 2009 he has announced that we will be handballing through the corridor.

RL is a very conservative man. Expect no innovation, invention. All this hard-man, deep thinker stuff is in some SS posters imaginations - probably a carry over from playing day memories of him.

Maybe....but geez....you either really have it in for Ross Lyon, still believe Grants your man or know Ross on a personal basis to make such grand, bitter claims?

I mean Lyons so conservative he has no innovation in him? whoooaa....there's an insight from let me guess......your @ss? Hes no deep football thinker according to you - just a dumb plodder who barely knows the game I guess?? (I think you have him confused with your previous "corporate" cult hero).

Do show me the quote direct from Ross Lyon at the 2007 AGM where he says "Im changing game plans for 2008 DUE TO EXTERNAL CLUB DISSATISFACTION.......Id be interested in reading that reasoning from Ross.......or did you again pull this from Uranus with your space ship??

Ross Lyon has - from all (non-biased, genuine) reports tinkered with our game plan. So that, according to your logic, means he hasnt had a plan at all cause he has made some changes to it???? ....certainly smell the stench of desperation or something in that stretch....

You got 1 thing right - its early pre season. Well done you (or someone in the family) can navigate a calendar - there has been no real footy so far but this new modern "chipolotto" has been round for a little while now.....or are you suggesting the game hasnt changed and is still played as it was in the early 90's?...........ahh...those were the days....I remember a young, HARD, conservative Ross Lyon........or maybe I dont......maybe thats just a figment of my imagination........

[Bernard Shakey]

Ross definitely has a game plan.

Watch the first half, see what happens, then react.

We are not proactive, completely reactive.

I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise this year. Against Brisbane and again against the Dogs on Friday we did not start till half time.

[Teflon]

Ross definitely has a game plan.

Watch the first half, see what happens, then react.

We are not proactive, completely reactive.

I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise this year. Against Brisbane and again against the Dogs on Friday we did not start till half time.

I didnt see the Dogs game - was this the same again? slow starts?

Thats a pattern for sure and not a great one.

I did notice this against Brisbane and was dissapointed as it reminded me again of last year.

[Richter]

True, but at least we're finishing games, and seasons, strongly. I loved watching us under GT but one of the big problems was that we would start well and then tail off - in the year of the streak we won the first 10 then lost 8 won 7 for the rest of the season (incl. finals). We were predictable and hence beatable. Last year we finished the season more strongly than we started it... that's a good sign IMO

To be honest I don't prefer RL's more defensively aware game style in terms of entertainment compared with GT's. But I prefer to think we might actually have a decent shot at winnig a flag. I feel that is a real possibility under RL - our window still has another 2-3 years left with the 00-02 crop of players, and whilst Lenny and Max are still playing.

What I like most of all is winning.

[Mr Magic]

Ross definitely has a game plan.

Watch the first half, see what happens, then react.

We are not proactive, completely reactive.

I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise this year. Against Brisbane and again against the Dogs on Friday we did not start till half time.

I didnt see the Dogs game - was this the same again? slow starts?

Thats a pattern for sure and not a great one.

I did notice this against Brisbane and was dissapointed as it reminded me again of last year.

According to the scores posted on here it was a 'tight' first half with us leading by 5 points at half-time.

Most of the comments seem to have been that it was a 'poor' first half of football from both sides.

[Shaggy]

True, but at least we're finishing games, and seasons, strongly. I loved watching us under GT but one of the big problems was that we would start well and then tail off - in the year of the streak we won the first 10 then lost 8 won 7 for the rest of the season (incl. finals). We were predictable and hence beatable. Last year we finished the season more strongly than we started it... that's a good sign IMO

Actually we finished strongly in 2005 and 2006.

[Teflon]

True, but at least we're finishing games, and seasons, strongly. I loved watching us under GT but one of the big problems was that we would start well and then tail off - in the year of the streak we won the first 10 then lost 8 won 7 for the rest of the season (incl. finals). We were predictable and hence beatable. Last year we finished the season more strongly than we started it... that's a good sign IMO

To be honest I don't prefer RL's more defensively aware game style in terms of entertainment compared with GT's. But I prefer to think we might actually have a decent shot at winnig a flag. I feel that is a real possibility under RL - our window still has another 2-3 years left with the 00-02 crop of players, and whilst Lenny and Max are still playing.

What I like most of all is winning.

Agree 100% Richter.

I dont enjoy watching us go via the cape to get into fwd 50 or over posessing but I understand there are times where you are constrained by your opposition.

The defensive aspect of the game Lyon has bought our club has at times IMO made us look a much tougher side but I really do think he needs to sort our fwd 50 delivery and the functioning up there this year (so easy to shut Riewoldt down and we were gone last year)

I agree bout finishing the year off strongly and runing games out - we are and kudos to Lyon and his fitness staff for this.

[WayneJudson42]

How crap were Geelong and HAwks the year before they won their flags?

Adapting to a more defensive style is one thing... getting the right type of players to do the job every week is something else.

Hopefully, this year will be when opportunity crosses preparation.

RL is no fool.

[saint66au]

Matthew Knights in the H-S today has forecast some pretty ugly defensive footy this year

Teams are using the NAB series to try out zones etc..have a look at some of the final scores....12 goals has won most games and more than half the teams this weekend had more hanballs than kicks

[RBnW]

Matthew Knights in the H-S today has forecast some pretty ugly defensive footy this year

Teams are using the NAB series to try out zones etc..have a look at some of the final scores....12 goals has won most games and more than half the teams this weekend had more hanballs than kicks

maybe Matthew finally watched Rd 22 and thought mmmm.....that game plan didnt work last year.....mmmm.....maybe we need to stop our all out attack and lack of talent.....mmmm.....maybe missing the finals for 5 years wont keep my job here....mmmm......what did the premiers do last year.....mmmm......anyone got Sheeds mobile number......mmmm.....no make that Gary March's number......mmmm.....Terry finishes up this year....mmmm......better call him now.....mmmm......it will be good to come home to Punt Rd.....mmmm.....have to get rid of Sheeds again....mmmm.....Gary is that you, yes lets do Coffee......

[rodgerfox]

I'm not sure I follow?

Ross Lyon needs to be commended for being consistently outcoached by his own revoluntionary game plan?

[Richter]

Actually we finished strongly in 2005 and 2006.

2005 first 12 games 6-6; then 9 wins - 3 losses

2006 first 12 games 6-6; then 8 wins - 3 losses

You're quite right Shaggy. Oh well, bang goes another theory!

[bigcarl]

We are not proactive, completely reactive

that's a fair criticism and something i noticed pretty early on with ross.

rather than being forced on to the back foot every time (often by a less talented side), how about making them match up on us for a change.

it is not as if we are without ability.

dal santo (a damaging, creative player who thrived under the previous regime) is a case in point.

i'd let him loose on the half forward line with a brief to get clear and cause some headaches. instead he's hemmed in and restricted and seems totally paranoid about his opponent getting a kick.

[Saints43]

RL is a very conservative man. Expect no innovation, invention. All this hard-man, deep thinker stuff is in some SS posters imaginations - probably a carry over from playing day memories of him.

Maybe....but geez....you either really have it in for Ross Lyon, still believe Grants your man or know Ross on a personal basis to make such grand, bitter claims?

I mean Lyons so conservative he has no innovation in him? whoooaa....there's an insight from let me guess......your @ss? Hes no deep football thinker according to you - just a dumb plodder who barely knows the game I guess?? (I think you have him confused with your previous "corporate" cult hero).

Do show me the quote direct from Ross Lyon at the 2007 AGM where he says "Im changing game plans for 2008 DUE TO EXTERNAL CLUB DISSATISFACTION.......Id be interested in reading that reasoning from Ross.......or did you again pull this from Uranus with your space ship??

Ross Lyon has - from all (non-biased, genuine) reports tinkered with our game plan. So that, according to your logic, means he hasnt had a plan at all cause he has made some changes to it???? ....certainly smell the stench of desperation or something in that stretch....

You got 1 thing right - its early pre season. Well done you (or someone in the family) can navigate a calendar - there has been no real footy so far but this new modern "chipolotto" has been round for a little while now.....or are you suggesting the game hasnt changed and is still played as it was in the early 90's?...........ahh...those were the days....I remember a young, HARD, conservative Ross Lyon........or maybe I dont......maybe thats just a figment of my imagination........

When RL innovates you let me know.
Not being a deep thinker doesn't necessarily make you a dope. I never made that claim.
There was no quote : "Im changing game plans for 2008 DUE TO EXTERNAL CLUB DISSATISFACTION".
Ross Lyon has made statements 3 times in less than 3 years regarding changing our gameplan. You were full of praise for his new ways in 2007 he has now admitted that he got it wrong. You should as well.

My post was to clear up a misconception you have about Ross Lyon. You can either compare what I write to what you know about RL and work out if it tallies or completely ignore it. It's no skin off my nose.

Just trying to help.

[MC Gusto]

I'm not sure I follow?

Ross Lyon needs to be commended for being consistently outcoached by his own revoluntionary game plan?

yes that is what everyone is implying

[rodgerfox]

You were full of praise for his new ways in 2007 he has now admitted that he got it wrong. You should as well.

HA!!! Not likely.

[Teflon]

I'm not sure I follow?

Ross Lyon needs to be commended for being consistently outcoached by his own revoluntionary game plan?

yes that is what everyone is implying

whose implying that?

what isnt being implied but is a fact is that the game is becoming more defensive with attack being harder to conjure - dont believe me...read the direct quotes from AFL coaches in todays Hun.

Ross Lyon has made that a focus from day 1 in his time at St Kilda - I think that has taken time to instill but will ultimately hold us in good stead.

Apart from silly tw!ts with weird agenda's....I dont think thats so hard to get?

[Teflon]

RL is a very conservative man. Expect no innovation, invention. All this hard-man, deep thinker stuff is in some SS posters imaginations - probably a carry over from playing day memories of him.

Maybe....but geez....you either really have it in for Ross Lyon, still believe Grants your man or know Ross on a personal basis to make such grand, bitter claims?

I mean Lyons so conservative he has no innovation in him? whoooaa....there's an insight from let me guess......your @ss? Hes no deep football thinker according to you - just a dumb plodder who barely knows the game I guess?? (I think you have him confused with your previous "corporate" cult hero).

Do show me the quote direct from Ross Lyon at the 2007 AGM where he says "Im changing game plans for 2008 DUE TO EXTERNAL CLUB DISSATISFACTION.......Id be interested in reading that reasoning from Ross.......or did you again pull this from Uranus with your space ship??

Ross Lyon has - from all (non-biased, genuine) reports tinkered with our game plan. So that, according to your logic, means he hasnt had a plan at all cause he has made some changes to it???? ....certainly smell the stench of desperation or something in that stretch....

You got 1 thing right - its early pre season. Well done you (or someone in the family) can navigate a calendar - there has been no real footy so far but this new modern "chipolotto" has been round for a little while now.....or are you suggesting the game hasnt changed and is still played as it was in the early 90's?...........ahh...those were the days....I remember a young, HARD, conservative Ross Lyon........or maybe I dont......maybe thats just a figment of my imagination........

When RL innovates you let me know.

why so you can tell us all again how Ross Lyons is really just a Sydney rip off?....why would anyone waste that time on someone so clearly with an agenda against the current coach?....why cant you just let go...your mans gone...

Not being a deep thinker doesn't necessarily make you a dope. I never made that claim.

But you somehow know enough of him from row q seat 654 at TD to know that Ross Lyons no deep thinker?....geez.......you must be psychic up there in the rafters......


There was no quote : "Im changing game plans for 2008 DUE TO EXTERNAL CLUB DISSATISFACTION".

Ok now we get to it - you made it up. Lyon never said that at all and you were gilding the lilly. Fair enough, not your first post where the truth has been stretched.....why not just admit that? why the carry on?

Ross Lyon has made statements 3 times in less than 3 years regarding changing our gameplan. You were full of praise for his new ways in 2007 he has now admitted that he got it wrong. You should as well.

Im still absolutely full of praise for Lyons game plan - IMO its not finished and sure its taken time to learn and hes had to improve that as hes gone on.......that to me doesnt constitute failure - that constitutes a work still in progress with a coach who at the least IS flexible and who CAN think, adapt and further develop a plan (unlike your man Grant.......and we all know how that went when sides went defensive against us....)

Why would I or Lyon or anyone need to apologise for that? ....What an odd comment.

My post was to clear up a misconception you have about Ross Lyon. You can either compare what I write to what you know about RL and work out if it tallies or completely ignore it. It's no skin off my nose.

Just trying to help.

No..your post was again to denigrate Ross Lyon and have a veiled shot at me. You base your "clearing up of misconceptions" on made up garbage of what you think you know and still pine for your man Grant. Sad thing is you wont admit that. You do sound remarkably like a Rodger posting...thats just plain scary.......

Ofcourse its no skin off your nose.......Pinocchio never lost any skin off his either...

Oh...by the way.....I did enjoy you telling us all how after just 4 pre seasons games we have seen "nothing of how teams will be playing".... I must have been imagining a shift in the way the games being played so far in 09.....that is untill ofcourse a double page spread in the Hun quoting 2 current AFL coaches saying exactly that appeared today.....I had a smile.

Do try and keep up?

[Shaggy]

No..your post was again to denigrate Ross Lyon and have a veiled shot at me. You base your "clearing up of misconceptions" on made up garbage of what you think you know and still pine for your man Grant. Sad thing is you wont admit that. You do sound remarkably like a Rodger posting...thats just plain scary.......

Ofcourse its no skin off your nose.......Pinocchio never lost any skin off his either...

Oh...by the way.....I did enjoy you telling us all how after just 4 pre seasons games we have seen "nothing of how teams will be playing".... I must have been imagining a shift in the way the games being played so far in 09.....that is untill ofcourse a double page spread in the Hun quoting 2 current AFL coaches saying exactly that appeared today.....I had a smile.

Do try and keep up?

You need to move on from your dislike of GT and I will now add Eddie McGuire. Is it because they are over weight you do not like them?

You should at least appreciate the amazing turnaround they achieved for their clubs. Turnaround is not that easy as the market is now finding out.

[Teflon]

No..your post was again to denigrate Ross Lyon and have a veiled shot at me. You base your "clearing up of misconceptions" on made up garbage of what you think you know and still pine for your man Grant. Sad thing is you wont admit that. You do sound remarkably like a Rodger posting...thats just plain scary.......

Ofcourse its no skin off your nose.......Pinocchio never lost any skin off his either...

Oh...by the way.....I did enjoy you telling us all how after just 4 pre seasons games we have seen "nothing of how teams will be playing".... I must have been imagining a shift in the way the games being played so far in 09.....that is untill ofcourse a double page spread in the Hun quoting 2 current AFL coaches saying exactly that appeared today.....I had a smile.

Do try and keep up?

You need to move on from your dislike of GT and I will now add Eddie McGuire. Is it because they are over weight you do not like them?

You should at least appreciate the amazing turnaround they achieved for their clubs. Turnaround is not that easy as the market is now finding out.

Eddie Maguire WTF?

And I dont need to move on from Grant....he'slong gone and Im still celebrating.

In Ross we trust.

You on board ?

[Shaggy]

No..your post was again to denigrate Ross Lyon and have a veiled shot at me. You base your "clearing up of misconceptions" on made up garbage of what you think you know and still pine for your man Grant. Sad thing is you wont admit that. You do sound remarkably like a Rodger posting...thats just plain scary.......

Ofcourse its no skin off your nose.......Pinocchio never lost any skin off his either...

Oh...by the way.....I did enjoy you telling us all how after just 4 pre seasons games we have seen "nothing of how teams will be playing".... I must have been imagining a shift in the way the games being played so far in 09.....that is untill ofcourse a double page spread in the Hun quoting 2 current AFL coaches saying exactly that appeared today.....I had a smile.

Do try and keep up?

You need to move on from your dislike of GT and I will now add Eddie McGuire. Is it because they are over weight you do not like them?

You should at least appreciate the amazing turnaround they achieved for their clubs. Turnaround is not that easy as the market is now finding out.

Eddie Maguire WTF?

And I dont need to move on from Grant....he'slong gone and Im still celebrating.

In Ross we trust.

You on board ?

Its not a question about being on board.

Its about white anting at every opportunity. I notice you do it well.

[Teflon]

No..your post was again to denigrate Ross Lyon and have a veiled shot at me. You base your "clearing up of misconceptions" on made up garbage of what you think you know and still pine for your man Grant. Sad thing is you wont admit that. You do sound remarkably like a Rodger posting...thats just plain scary.......

Ofcourse its no skin off your nose.......Pinocchio never lost any skin off his either...

Oh...by the way.....I did enjoy you telling us all how after just 4 pre seasons games we have seen "nothing of how teams will be playing".... I must have been imagining a shift in the way the games being played so far in 09.....that is untill ofcourse a double page spread in the Hun quoting 2 current AFL coaches saying exactly that appeared today.....I had a smile.

Do try and keep up?

You need to move on from your dislike of GT and I will now add Eddie McGuire. Is it because they are over weight you do not like them?

You should at least appreciate the amazing turnaround they achieved for their clubs. Turnaround is not that easy as the market is now finding out.

Eddie Maguire WTF?

And I dont need to move on from Grant....he'slong gone and Im still celebrating.

In Ross we trust.

You on board ?

Its not a question about being on board.

Its about white anting at every opportunity. I notice you do it well.

Better to be a white ant than a p!ss ant and I notice you do that remarkably well sniffing round the edges, offering little in the way of genuine football views only to stalk and comment on other posters views or attacking them personally.....sad in a way.

Kee up the....er....good work.

[Shaggy]

No..your post was again to denigrate Ross Lyon and have a veiled shot at me. You base your "clearing up of misconceptions" on made up garbage of what you think you know and still pine for your man Grant. Sad thing is you wont admit that. You do sound remarkably like a Rodger posting...thats just plain scary.......

Ofcourse its no skin off your nose.......Pinocchio never lost any skin off his either...

Oh...by the way.....I did enjoy you telling us all how after just 4 pre seasons games we have seen "nothing of how teams will be playing".... I must have been imagining a shift in the way the games being played so far in 09.....that is untill ofcourse a double page spread in the Hun quoting 2 current AFL coaches saying exactly that appeared today.....I had a smile.

Do try and keep up?

You need to move on from your dislike of GT and I will now add Eddie McGuire. Is it because they are over weight you do not like them?

You should at least appreciate the amazing turnaround they achieved for their clubs. Turnaround is not that easy as the market is now finding out.

Eddie Maguire WTF?

And I dont need to move on from Grant....he'slong gone and Im still celebrating.

In Ross we trust.

You on board ?

Its not a question about being on board.

Its about white anting at every opportunity. I notice you do it well.

Better to be a white ant than a p!ss ant and I notice you do that remarkably well sniffing round the edges, offering little in the way of genuine football views only to stalk and comment on other posters views or attacking them personally.....sad in a way.

Kee up the....er....good work.

Thanks Tef.

I have always noted your "genuine football views".