Did we learn much?

[WayneJudson42]

He also raises valid arguments in another thread. I put it that the coaches have had a big hand in ruining the games with their tactics... which in turn cause the rules to be changed.

[St DAC]

i believed that he was just whinging and baiting.

Well JB he's certainly doing that. Or is it just pissing and moaning? What a sad sack he is. Hey Rodger, if you don't like footy anymore don't bloody watch it.

No doubt the game has, and is, changing. It's quicker, more sanitised, more homogenised, less open, and frankly less of a spectacle than it was 15 years ago.

But the players are bigger, stronger, just as brave, better skilled, and it's still the best footy code in the world IMO. Just less so than it was.

And 4 weeks for Nick Maxwell is a travesty.

[meher baba]

Oh and love your sig....you prefer the original recording or the movie soundtrack??

It's a hard question.

At age 12 or so in the early 1970s I bought myself a vinyl LP version of the original album, and loved it (and played it) to death.

I also adore the movie (especially the bit where Ann-Margaret writhes around in a clinging dress covered in baked beans, chocolate and soap suds: I mean, who wouldn't).

And I really liked the soundtrack recording: especially the contributions by the likes of Tina Turner, Eric Clapton et al.

But, as I get older, I have returned to my first love. There's something about the sound created by the four members of the band playing and singing together with Moon's drumming driving it relentlessly forward - which is simply irresistable.

I think I'll just go and put it on...................

[borderbarry]

Back to the footy.....
I agree with Meher baba's sentiments re the attitude of the AFL and its constant approach to new clubs. How many teams will it take before the AFL is happy with its size? 18, 20, 24? And the people of NSW dont appear to be interested in having a 2nd AFL team in Sydney. I would rather see a 3rd team in S.A and W.A., to weaken the stranglehold of the existing W.A. & S.A. clubs.

[rodgerfox]

Seems all of us sad sacks who bemoan the way the AFL is killing the soul of football are not alone in our thinking.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 42,00.html

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/l ... 12116.html

The groundswell of anger is growing.

Here it is in a nutshell I reckon....

"If we continue to erode the physical aspect of the game, what will be left with in 10 years' time? International Rules with an oval ball, that's all. "

I think that is precisely what the AFL want. A non-contact sport is the only version that will 'sell' overseas. Selling overseas, is what they want.

[Animal Enclosure]

Positives- BJ, the Kids (Eljay, Heyne, Steven, McEvoy), 2nd half, ruck combo, good players that looked rusty (Chips, Bally, Dal), Goose getting through the match & doing a few Goose like things.

Negatives- 1st half tackling, general lack of physicality in the 2nd qtr.

Without the four umpiring decisions against us in the last qtr, we could have pinched the games despite being very out of sorts for half the game. A good first hit out that showed the kids have talent & a number of senior players are very hungry for a big year.

[saintly]

as well brisbane hasd three weeks or more preparation then the saints as the saints were in finals.

[plugger66]

Seems all of us sad sacks who bemoan the way the AFL is killing the soul of football are not alone in our thinking.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 42,00.html

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/l ... 12116.html

The groundswell of anger is growing.

But I suppose we are just all wrong. I suppose we are just all whingers. I suppose that if the AFL and their acolytes and apologists keep telling us that the game is "tougher than ever", we should just shut up and believe them as gospel.

lets face it. The game is soft. It has been sanitised by the corrupters of a once great game, Anderson and Demetriou. They have destroyed the soul and essence of football.

And before any rigid thinking boof head comes on and start lying about what i want and dont want on the football field (yes I am talking to you plugger66 - found that quote of mine where I want to see shirtfronts and hits behind play yet ? Thought not you liar.), I dont want to see thuggishness, I dont want to see hits behind play.

What I want to see is a fair dinkum contest witht eh ballin dispute. But what we have now is that

1) players cant make physical contact - even accidently - above the head
2) If a player has the ball all he has to do is duck his head and barge into a tackling player and he will be rewarded with a free kick.
3) A player gets a push and they fall over and stage worse than any soccer player because the umpire - who with the blessing of the Lord Protectors Geishen and the AFL - now think they are part of the entertainment (as told to GT by Geishen himself - he said the crowd loves the umpires theatrics when giving a hold the ball decision).

The game has been hijacked by mamby pamby fairies who have corrupted the rules soul and essence of the game and have compromised the "competition" to such an extent that it now resembles WWE.

Posters here rail against RodgerFox for his negativity. But I know exactly how he feels. The game has been corrupted and compromised, and it is great to see some in the media picking this up and running with it.

And it will only end once we have seen the end of Demetriou the corrupter and his court fool nutless monkey Anderson.

Did you get that point I made about the acting in last 5 years or are you to simple to understand. You get on here and say how soft the game is becoming but what rules have made the game worse and what would you do to make it better. Would you whinge about how soft it is. Does that make it better. I dont think so. Seems to me you have fallen out of love with the game after the Saints changed the level 2 thing. Lets get rid AD and AA. Lets see what that does. It will do nothing as they will be replaced and the next person will run the comp the same way. The game is as strong as ever just because a few on here whinge about softness doesnt mean Jack Shite.

It seems that the problem with some posters here is some are upset about how we are playing the game so we think the game is no good anymore. It doesnt seem to me the Hawks, Cats, Dogs, Vlues and Tigers supporters think that by the amount of members they have increased by in the last 2 years.

But please continue to get on here and say the AFL is wrecking the game and Saints have stuffed up over the level 2 thing because Howde Dode you really give me a laugh.

[st.byron]

Did you get that point I made about the acting in last 5 years or are you to simple to understand. You get on here and say how soft the game is becoming but what rules have made the game worse and what would you do to make it better. Would you whinge about how soft it is. Does that make it better. I dont think so. Seems to me you have fallen out of love with the game after the Saints changed the level 2 thing. Lets get rid AD and AA. Lets see what that does. It will do nothing as they will be replaced and the next person will run the comp the same way. The game is as strong as ever just because a few on here whinge about softness doesnt mean Jack Shite.

It seems that the problem with some posters here is some are upset about how we are playing the game so we think the game is no good anymore. It doesnt seem to me the Hawks, Cats, Dogs, Vlues and Tigers supporters think that by the amount of members they have increased by in the last 2 years.

But please continue to get on here and say the AFL is wrecking the game and Saints have stuffed up over the level 2 thing because Howde Dode you really give me a laugh.

Reckon you're playing the man a bit here plugger.
I agree with JB and others that the game has become softer. Any contact to the head at all, accidental or otherwise is now deemed a free kick. That's a fundamental shift in the way the game is played. Maxwell is outed for 4 weeks for something that would have been regarded as a good solid bump not long ago. He would have been applauded, and rightly so IMO, now he's suspended. That's a fundamental shift.
Teams are obsessed with keeping possession instead of kicking to a contest. That's also a fundamental shift and I think one for worse as the chip it around, possession at all costs is boring to watch IMO and makes for low scoring games.
When a ball is kicked to a contest the umpires are all over it. I haven't got any stats to back it up but it seems to me that a higher % of contests now end with a whistle than previously.
So yes, I don't like the style of game that the Saints play now. I think it's a revised clone of Sydney 2055 / 2006. And yes my view of the game is coloured by my perception of the Saints.
But..... I also agree that the game in general has become over officiated and less contact oriented. Most teams to some extent play the chip it out of the backline game because they're loath to give up possession in their defensive half. My own view of the game now is that it's less exciting, less unpredictable and less raw than it used to be and IMO the game's worse off for it.

[plugger66]

Did you get that point I made about the acting in last 5 years or are you to simple to understand. You get on here and say how soft the game is becoming but what rules have made the game worse and what would you do to make it better. Would you whinge about how soft it is. Does that make it better. I dont think so. Seems to me you have fallen out of love with the game after the Saints changed the level 2 thing. Lets get rid AD and AA. Lets see what that does. It will do nothing as they will be replaced and the next person will run the comp the same way. The game is as strong as ever just because a few on here whinge about softness doesnt mean Jack Shite.

It seems that the problem with some posters here is some are upset about how we are playing the game so we think the game is no good anymore. It doesnt seem to me the Hawks, Cats, Dogs, Vlues and Tigers supporters think that by the amount of members they have increased by in the last 2 years.

But please continue to get on here and say the AFL is wrecking the game and Saints have stuffed up over the level 2 thing because Howde Dode you really give me a laugh.

Reckon you're playing the man a bit here plugger.
I agree with JB and others that the game has become softer. Any contact to the head at all, accidental or otherwise is now deemed a free kick. That's a fundamental shift in the way the game is played. Maxwell is outed for 4 weeks for something that would have been regarded as a good solid bump not long ago. He would have been applauded, and rightly so IMO, now he's suspended. That's a fundamental shift.
Teams are obsessed with keeping possession instead of kicking to a contest. That's also a fundamental shift and I think one for worse as the chip it around, possession at all costs is boring to watch IMO and makes for low scoring games.
When a ball is kicked to a contest the umpires are all over it. I haven't got any stats to back it up but it seems to me that a higher % of contests now end with a whistle than previously.
So yes, I don't like the style of game that the Saints play now. I think it's a revised clone of Sydney 2055 / 2006. And yes my view of the game is coloured by my perception of the Saints.
But..... I also agree that the game in general has become over officiated and less contact oriented. Most teams to some extent play the chip it out of the backline game because they're loath to give up possession in their defensive half. My own view of the game now is that it's less exciting, less unpredictable and less raw than it used to be and IMO the game's worse off for it.

Firstly i may be playing the man but if you read his post I reckon he might be as well. Anyway who cares about that rubbish. I reckon you will find that frees in a game havent gone up over the years and if you watch games in the early 70's there were triple the frees there are now and much softer than they are today. There is less one on one footy because the coaches want it that way. Nothing to do with the AFL.

As for contact to the head well you can still hit someone in the head accidently but if you choose to bump instead of getting the ball and you then hurt someone it is reportable. I dont see how that is soft. Also Maxwell got one week but because of a poor record gets 4. Nothing wrong with that either. Listen to players and coaches today and they will tell you the game is if anything harder than ever because of the pace of the game.

Finally i have seen the last 4 GF and I wouldnt say they are anywhere near soft. They would be some of the hardest hitting GF we have seen and all was done fairly. We could go back to 1989 or even 1971 and see harder but illegal hits and I am afraid the world is a different place these days. There would be outrage if those things happened now.

[st.byron]

Firstly i may be playing the man but if you read his post I reckon he might be as well. Anyway who cares about that rubbish. I reckon you will find that frees in a game havent gone up over the years and if you watch games in the early 70's there were triple the frees there are now and much softer than they are today. There is less one on one footy because the coaches want it that way. Nothing to do with the AFL.

As for contact to the head well you can still hit someone in the head accidently but if you choose to bump instead of getting the ball and you then hurt someone it is reportable. I dont see how that is soft. Also Maxwell got one week but because of a poor record gets 4. Nothing wrong with that either. Listen to players and coaches today and they will tell you the game is if anything harder than ever because of the pace of the game.

Finally i have seen the last 4 GF and I wouldnt say they are anywhere near soft. They would be some of the hardest hitting GF we have seen and all was done fairly. We could go back to 1989 or even 1971 and see harder but illegal hits and I am afraid the world is a different place these days. There would be outrage if those things happened now.

I haven't seen any stats to compare frees now vs frees in the 70's, 80's and 90's so it would be interesting to compare. My perception that there are more now may just be the shift in the things that are being penalised rather than the actual volume of frees.
Agree that less one on one footy is essentially an evolution according to the way the coaches are planning and organising the game. But it's also a result of the quickening of the game in terms of the running and general fitness required. It's a paradox that although the game is much quicker now, it's less interesting to watch IMO because a lot of the quickness involves running like buggery to flood or quick hands and feet to deliver to a specific target twenty metres away rather than fifty.
Re whether the game is softer - I can understand the intent to protect players from injury but teh game has lost some of its hardness and toughness through rule changes and I think that's a shame.

Agree that most recent GF's have been good, but I would bloody well hope so, the two best teams in the comp going for the ultimate prize. Also agree that illegal hits like Yeates on Brereton are a thing of the past and that's a good thing. It's more the week to week footy in general that's less interesting to watch. Chip chip chip and when it is kicked to contest there's a high chance that an infringement will be called. Yawn.

[sunsaint]

Harder - softer
more free kicks - less
better - worse.
whatever your view point I know where the problem lies.
I have plotted an inverse ratio of the enjoyment of AFL to the rise of soccer in oz.

But back to the OP, aside from the opinions that pre-season comp is not important, I see the result on Sat as pretty disappointing.
The club could really use the prize money
Both sides had major outs, but our list was miles better than theirs and should not have been in the position it was.
The lions were hard at the man and first to the ball.
Their "kids" looked pretty good in comparison.
From a membership point of view, it gives fans something to get excited about. And this year will be a struggle for the club, for various reasons.
Much of the excitement about backline players being moved forward, didnt work very well and the oportunity to fine tune the setup in match conditions is now lost.
When an AFL footballer runs accross the line, he should want to beat his opponent no matter what the circumstances. Its the reason why they reached the level they did. Professional pride, killer drive, never say die. To accept less is a worry.

[JABBER]

[color=white][/color]


I think we lernt how to play against a 15 man zone In the second half we out scored them by a lot. i herd the players didn't get much pratice because of the weather Also we had 10 players out from my favioutte 22 players rested

[saint66au]

Plugger66 is correct on one thing. The coaches are repsonsible for the negative gameplans..

Its all about eliminating risk as much as possible. Look at the 1977 GF. Twiggy Dunne kicked for goal after the siren, to tie a grand final, from only 35-40m out with a torp!!!!! That risk was soon eliminated and the drop punt was adopted as the kick of choice 99% of the time

Coaches are employed to win their side a flag..they dont get a bonus if they play footy thats attractive to watch. Part of that is eliminating risk as much as possible..and so the "keepings off" brand of footy was born.

Just one point on contests. Back in the 60s and 70s players actually kept to their positions far more. Forwards stayed forwards, wingers stayed on the wing. A one-on-one contest was just that. Now?? a contest consists of 30 players around the footy thanks to flooding. Unless a contested mark is taken the chances of a scrimmage and ball-up is far greater that it was 30 years ago. I reckon the abundance of tiggy touchwood frees paid now is a weird attempt to keep the game flowing, to avoid the 05 Sydney 1 million ball-ups a game scenario.