Clinton Jones

[thirty-seven!?]

I was interested to see an article in today's Sun about Clinton, proclaiming an even stronger work ethic, fitness base and - most importantly - disposal skills!



THE young players from far away used to be tagged "March champions" - train the house down over summer, only to go missing once the real stuff started.
But Perth's Clinton Jones defied that trend last year and is now one of many at St Kilda hoping for a midfield promotion with the retirement of the club's champion running man, Robert Harvey.

Late-blossoming Jones, 25, has once again been a star of pre-season, having not missed a session since late-October.

Few at Moorabbin share his speed and endurance and, importantly, he has polished his skills to such a level that coach Ross Lyon has him penciled in as part of his midfield artillery from the NAB Cup opener against Brisbane Lions at the Gold Coast on February 14.

"I'd like to think that the opportunity to play there (in the midfield) presents itself," Jones said.

"I was able to cement my spot last year and play 16 in a row in a variety of positions."

Jones's New Year C.V. includes extra strength and a fitness base of which even inexhaustible trainaholic Harvey would approve.

"I've been working in particular on my 100s and 200s and getting better at all the repetitive stuff," he says.

"Seeing how hard Rob worked was always an inspiration for me. I'd watch him (on TV in Perth) as a 13 and 14-year-old and think how amazing he was. It was almost surreal getting to play with him. He was such a great role model for me."

Jones is fast making up for time lost after he broke a collarbone and wrote off the 2007 season.

Lyon entrusted him with tough tagging roles last year and he hopes to do that again - plus some - as the Saints show a new, brave and attacking front.




Can anyone who has been to training tell me if this is an accurate new view of Clinton? Personally, I'm a big fan of the guy (however, do get somewhat nervous when he gets the ball in his hands), however struggle to fit him into our 22. What does everyone else think? Is he in for as big-a-year as inferred?

[rocksolid]

I think he is OK but don't have him in best 22

[BigMart]

Under pressure the other day on several occasions he just slammed it on the boot and kicked it 40m up and under....he is a woeful kick....it cannot be corrected on the run, he has a poor action, which is ingrained......he will improve to the point where he is a serviceable kick at VFL level....

Poor disposal at StK
Gram, L.Fisher, Hayes, Hudghton, Montagna (occasionally), Riewoldt (at goal), Ball (over distance), Gilbert, Ray, Kosi (at goal), Blake, Howard, Maguire (blasts), Jones, Eddy,

This is what KILLS us!!!!

Good disposal
X. Clarke, Baker (reliable), Montagna (occasionally), Riewoldt (field), Schnieder, Goddard (#1), Kosi (field), Dal Santo, McQualter (short), Gwilt, Conners, Geary, Milne

Rest are just AVERAGE

[thirty-seven!?]

That's exactly what kills us Big Mart... I watched the Collingwood semi final match again the other day, and there were times when one of our boys (main culprit tended to be Gilbo) would do something very courageous or skillful to get the ball, and would follow it with a sub-far disposal eventuating in a contested ball, or putting other players out of position...
Hopefully this is being rectified in the pre-season... but as u say... there is only so much u can change - by this stage in their careers - even for the younger players - its getting too late...

[maverick]

Under pressure the other day on several occasions he just slammed it on the boot and kicked it 40m up and under....he is a woeful kick....it cannot be corrected on the run, he has a poor action, which is ingrained......he will improve to the point where he is a serviceable kick at VFL level....

Poor disposal at StK
Gram, L.Fisher, Hayes, Hudghton, Montagna (occasionally), Riewoldt (at goal), Ball (over distance), Gilbert, Ray, Kosi (at goal), Blake, Howard, Maguire (blasts), Jones, Eddy,

This is what KILLS us!!!!

Good disposal
X. Clarke, Baker (reliable), Montagna (occasionally), Riewoldt (field), Schnieder, Goddard (#1), Kosi (field), Dal Santo, McQualter (short), Gwilt, Conners, Geary, Milne

Rest are just AVERAGE

Agree with the concept above, but
Ball can't kick over any distance, his disposal is as bad as Jones.
Dal cannot kick for goal
Gram is OK, just tries to kick it too hard over distance.
S Fisher has very good disposal as well
Geary struggles I reckon, maybe its a decision making thing...

You are so right, in 2004/05 our disposal was a highlight...

[Saints Premiers 2008]

our list highlights how important it is for certain players to find the ball

protect the ball carrier espeically if they are defined as one of the better ones in the club

[bigcarl]

Lyon entrusted him with tough tagging roles last year and he hopes to do that again - plus some - as the Saints show a new, brave and attacking front.

a brave new attacking front? i like the sounds of that, i really do.

it's where we need to improve out of sight to match it with the big boys. more risk-taking, more goals, more attack.

on cj, i would find a spot for him in the 22 on the basis of his endeavour, pace and aggression at the ball and ball carrier.

it's true that his disposal needs work and it is encouraging that he realises this and is trying to improve it.

[meher baba]

Alas, Big Mart is 100% spot on, as usual.

Because I seem to have a different view of him to most on here, I have watched Jones very closely in a number of games. He can only accurately pass the ball by foot through a slow, looping sort of lob to a player well in the clear. And his hand passes sometimes miss the mark as well.

I hope he eventually proves me wrong, but I don't really see how a 25 year old who has never had decent foot skills can suddenly develop them.

Big Mart, I totally support your assessment of the kicking abilities of our list: other than that - as others have suggested - you left out Sam Fisher (whose foot skills are reasonable, but a bit overrated by some on here IMO). And i reckon that, in his heyday, Goose was probably a bit of a better kick than you have credited him here.

I was interested in your positive assessment of Geary. I really hope to see more of him in 2009.

[JeffDunne]

If Clinton Jones is the worst player in our 22 this year then we will the flag. Jesus people, perspective.

There's plenty of higher profile & higher paid players than him that kill us with their disposal, so I really don't understand this Saintsational fascination with his skill level.

We whip fringe players for skill errors and have done so for decades, yet we blow wind up the arse of supposed 'champions' who don't match these players for effort yet make as many blunders. Why is that?

[stkfc1]

If Clinton Jones is the worst player in our 22 this year then we will the flag. Jesus people, perspective.

There's plenty of higher profile & higher paid players than him that kill us with their disposal, so I really don't understand this Saintsational fascination with his skill level.

We whip fringe players for skill errors and have done so for decades, yet we blow wind up the arse of supposed 'champions' who don't match these players for effort yet make as many blunders. Why is that?

Spot on JD! If half our team put in 2/3rd's of what CJ does, we'd be a walk up start for a flag...I'd take 22 Cj's over 22 Dal Santo's any day of the week. At least you know what your going to get!

[WayneJudson42]

If Clinton Jones is the worst player in our 22 this year then we will the flag. Jesus people, perspective.

There's plenty of higher profile & higher paid players than him that kill us with their disposal, so I really don't understand this Saintsational fascination with his skill level.

We whip fringe players for skill errors and have done so for decades, yet we blow wind up the arse of supposed 'champions' who don't match these players for effort yet make as many blunders. Why is that?

Agree. I also recall someone who made an art out of lollipop passes.

I also find it interesting that people can place limits on how much "development" there's left in players. Case in point: Matty Richardson. Different role and he had one of his best ever seasons.

If Jones is good enough, he'll cement his spot. If there's someone better coming through, then they'll take it.

I don't believe he's best 22, but if he improves, then well done. He desrve's it. No ego, no big wraps... no celebrity status, and no fat pay cheque. Just an honest blue collar player who tries his butt off.

[BigMart]

If you have 22 CJ's..........you would get a lot of honorable losses....

You seriosly cannot compare Dal Santo and Jones....

One player has influenced more games of AFL than the other one has played....and it will stay that way for ever and a day....

it's good to have guys whose biggest asset is chases an arse....but being able to play a bit is handy too...

He is a VG depth player....with some assets and some drawbacks

[BigMart]

Sam Fisher bombs way too much....last year he was kicking the ball like Mick Martyn.....a huge bomb...

When he is not blasting......he is a VG kick


Goose has a poor ball drop....way too high...

[BAM! (shhhh)]

If Clinton Jones is the worst player in our 22 this year then we will the flag. Jesus people, perspective.

There's plenty of higher profile & higher paid players than him that kill us with their disposal, so I really don't understand this Saintsational fascination with his skill level.

We whip fringe players for skill errors and have done so for decades, yet we blow wind up the arse of supposed 'champions' who don't match these players for effort yet make as many blunders. Why is that?

Spot on JD! If half our team put in 2/3rd's of what CJ does, we'd be a walk up start for a flag...I'd take 22 Cj's over 22 Dal Santo's any day of the week. At least you know what your going to get!

Love the blue collar sentiment, and I'm surprised these days that there are people who want to bump CJ from the 22 - while his is one of the jobs kids should be targetting, it will be one of the tougher ones to get. 20 disposals at AFL level isn't an easy thing to get (just ask Armitage, Eddy and McQualter).

But 22 Cj's over 22 Dal Santos? Pfft.

Work ethic's great and all, and I wish Dal were more of a horse for our team... but CJ's got a long way to go before he's a better footballer or more valuable to the Saints than Nick Dal Santo.

As much as some should lay off the CJs of the world skill wise - he's developed into a quality fringe player, and may yet be able to be more than that - if being a hard worker were all it took, we here might be more than internet heros (though I think many would be surprised at how hard guys work to earn a spot as an AFL footballer). The workers may be easier to identify with, but certainly doesn't make them more valuable.

[Eastern]

Those who criticise Clinton Jones' disposal would be well advised to get hold of some tapes of games he played during 2008. Yes, his style looks awkward and he doesn't have much of, if any of a right side but the real measure is "how often he hits the target". From the tapes I have, his ability to hit a target is pretty damm good.

My tapes might be telling me porkies, so I invite his critics to produce evidence to support their claims !!

[ctqs]

You can have all the skill and ability in the world but unless you've got the courage, discipline and work ethic to put it into practice, it means nothing.
As I've said previously, you need spit and polish to win a flag and I believe we've been out of balance in recent years with way too much polish, and not enough spit.
Jones may not have the silky skills of some. He may make the ball scream, instead of sing. But there are some there who DO have the silky skills, who I can't recall ever seeing run with the flight of the ball, only to be smashed into next week, and still take the mark.
That's not to say he can't or shouldn't improve his skills - anyone remember a bloke called Loewe? But I believe he most definitely has a role in the team.

[BigMart]

Even he knows he cannot kick.....Blind Freddy can see it.....it's why he was not drafted for 4 years.....and only rookied at 22

He cannot hit a moving target with a 40m pass at training....and under pressure he is worse....

But

He does have other qualities......work ethic, courage, can find the pill, can run with it, tackles very well...

[saintsRrising]

With Jones..so far he has steadily improved.

If he continues to improve he will have a better year in 2009 than he had in 2008...and in 2008 he had a more than serviceable year.

Now YES as St Mart has detailed we are not chock full of players with good disposal. This however also means that disposal alone will not squeeze him out....and in many other qualities he is superior to many of his team-mates.

Thing is that in elite sport the right attitude and committment level sees many players succeed or fall by the wayside.

Those with oustanding work ethics can often do more than their "talent' may imply. Blake for example is another that has continued to work on his "football" skills and juddgement to leverage off some outstanding athletic ability. Still no a "star'....but is now a competent player and a coaches player. One that can be relied on to perform ina given role.

Jones shows every sign of being another such type.

[maverick]

Sam Fisher bombs way too much....last year he was kicking the ball like Mick Martyn.....a huge bomb...

When he is not blasting......he is a VG kick


Goose has a poor ball drop....way too high...

I'm not sure whether Chips' problem is skill, decision making or coaching. He can certainly hit targets and is a good kick for goal.
With Goose we confuse being able to kick it 50 metres with good kicking I reckon.

Disposal and decision making are closely related, IMO

[ctqs]

Sam Fisher bombs way too much....last year he was kicking the ball like Mick Martyn.....a huge bomb...

When he is not blasting......he is a VG kick


Goose has a poor ball drop....way too high...

I'm not sure whether Chips' problem is skill, decision making or coaching. He can certainly hit targets and is a good kick for goal.
With Goose we confuse being able to kick it 50 metres with good kicking I reckon.

Disposal and decision making are closely related, IMO

That's a fair point because Troy Schwarze was actually one of the best kicks at the club. Banger has said he knew Schwarze would kick the goal that won us the game against the Lions a few years ago, because he's a great kick.
Spider Everitt was also one of the best kicks at the club in his time, though his problem wasn't so much a lack of confidence or decision making, but arrogance.

[MACEwasACE]

If CJ really wants to improve I think he will. I remember a young Buckets who thought the 1st half of his career couldn't hit Port Phillip bay Kicking the ball from St.Kilda pier.

2nd half, he became one of our mre reliable kicks.

I faith. Bring on March.

[BigMart]

Set shot goalkicking is a lot easier to work on, it is almost a closed skill....Buckets used to count his steps and use a mechanical approach to goalkicking....also the fact he had a lot of shots in games gave him practise under pressure.....experience helps....he did improve

Not sure in a play-on situation you can rely on your opponents to let you get balanced and get your technique right...in the field of play, you need a fluid technique which is natural and technically sound then you will be reliable...

fact is if you are not a naturally good kick at 21yo.....you will struggle to improve...by then you have played too much footy and it is hard to unlearn a technique that you have built up......and under-pressure you will always revert back....

CJ has a manufactured kicking technique

[sunsaint]

Those who criticise Clinton Jones' disposal would be well advised to get hold of some tapes of games he played during 2008. Yes, his style looks awkward and he doesn't have much of, if any of a right side but the real measure is "how often he hits the target". From the tapes I have, his ability to hit a target is pretty damm good.

My tapes might be telling me porkies, so I invite his critics to produce evidence to support their claims !!

You and I have the same tapes Eastern, we must get the same CJ Foxtel footy chanel.

[Cairnsman]

Let me get this straight,

the guy plays 16 straight and he's not considered in our top 22.

So of the players considered in our top 22 who was being held back 16 weeks in a row so CJ could be gifted a game?

[joffaboy]

Good depth player. Certainly in the starting 22.

Has a lot of G&D and puts in 100%.

Reminds me a bit of Thommo. Older recruit, tries his guts out, ordinary disposal.

There were reason why he wasn't picked up until he was 22.

However like Blake, he gets the most out of his talent and certainly doesn't die wondering.

I believe that he can add value to the team and does just that.