Farren Ray

[InkerSaint]

That thread's worth reading.

Let's hope Matthew Drain knew what he was thinking. The last thing they need is another Aaron Fiora.

[plugger66]

That thread's worth reading.

Let's hope Matthew Drain knew what he was thinking. The last thing they need is another Aaron Fiora.

Well maybe you might think he wasnt a good pick up but he played about 80 games for us which is a very good effort. Only about 2-3 players we have recruited this year will get to that amount.

[Longwayfromhome]

We can only hope. My brother is a mad bulldogs supporter. Not disappointed that Ray has left the kennel. Disposal skills suspect.
It's a real pain in the arse, this drafting gig. Take a player with speed and he can't kick over a jam tin. Look at a player with silky hand and foot skills and he's dismissed because he's not fast.
Can't please every one.
Fiora was not the worst draft choice this great club has made.
Go Saints.

[Batnoe]

We can only hope. My brother is a mad bulldogs supporter. Not disappointed that Ray has left the kennel. Disposal skills suspect.
It's a real pain in the arse, this drafting gig. Take a player with speed and he can't kick over a jam tin. Look at a player with silky hand and foot skills and he's dismissed because he's not fast.
Can't please every one.
Fiora was not the worst draft choice this great club has made.
Go Saints.

Thats what everyone says once a player leaves their team... yeah it would be good to keep some but no use saying 'oh damn, he has left, we are screwed.' he isnt coming back so plan something without him

Barry Hall, yes i didnt want to get rid of him, but now we wouldnt need him with temper etc etc. People just try and make excuses as to why they dont need their past player and that is why a lot of dogs are saying they are not too worried about seeing the back end of him

[Longwayfromhome]

No. Maybe it's a matter of he wasn't good enough to make the PF side. So he's the first to go.
Don't care if BH had a temper or not. Would love a forward with a bit of spit in him at the moment. We don't have one. RL says he wants some one like hammill.
It's like saying we will let Plugger go but really don't care. bulls*** !
I hope Ray makes the grade, but I'm not betting my left nut on it.
If Ray proves to be the next Austin Jones then I will be the first to kiss the feet of the selection Crew. If he proves to be the next Fiora, then at least we had a go.
Go Saints

[sunsaint]

Thats what everyone says once a player leaves their team... yeah it would be good to keep some but no use saying 'oh damn, he has left, we are screwed.' he isnt coming back so plan something without him

check this one.
this 2007 thread discusses him in pretty good detail, http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread ... 2427&t=396

[PJ]

He has never played HBF, and if that is a future postion for him, then why did we go for Begley?

I wouldn't get too fixated with the idea of HBF. It's match-ups now and obviously RL sees our previous half back line moving centre and forward.

I think Begley is an educated punt - the guys athletic and skillfull and has only been playing for about 3 to 4 years. If we are going to look at the Irish why not try one that's been in the game for a few years.

Even if Walsh comes he'll take time, Begley on the other hand is not much older and in the system.

Ray needs work but seems to have the smarts by all reports.

Perhaps he knows where the corridor is and can point a few of his teammates in the right direction.

[InkerSaint]

Well maybe you might think he wasnt a good pick up but he played about 80 games for us which is a very good effort. Only about 2-3 players we have recruited this year will get to that amount.

History tells us that he wasn't. But to be perfectly fair he still showed some promise when the Saints picked him up. However I wouldn't tout those 80 games as an achievement on Fiora's part. He had a bit of luck with the coaching turnover and probably got far more benefit of the doubt than he deserved.

I wish Charlie Gardiner had got Fiora's chances, I thought he could have been something for the Saints. Still, with all the delistings there's probably room on the list to take a gamble or two, and the pick we traded for Ray (32) might have been used on Nick Heyne anyway.

Here's hoping the next former top 5 draft pick whose original team lost patience with does far better than the last one.

[MCG-Unit]

.........

I wish Charlie Gardiner had got Fiora's chances..........

I wished Attard, Ferguson and Birss had got Fiora's chances

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Well maybe you might think he wasnt a good pick up but he played about 80 games for us which is a very good effort. Only about 2-3 players we have recruited this year will get to that amount.

History tells us that he wasn't. But to be perfectly fair he still showed some promise when the Saints picked him up. However I wouldn't tout those 80 games as an achievement on Fiora's part. He had a bit of luck with the coaching turnover and probably got far more benefit of the doubt than he deserved.

I wish Charlie Gardiner had got Fiora's chances, I thought he could have been something for the Saints. Still, with all the delistings there's probably room on the list to take a gamble or two, and the pick we traded for Ray (32) might have been used on Nick Heyne anyway.

Here's hoping the next former top 5 draft pick whose original team lost patience with does far better than the last one.

Don't know why I'm a sucker for these Fiora threads; I think it's because the Fiora that's painted on SS and the one on the field were such vastly different players. That's not saying the Fizz was a star - or even good, just different to the guy that supporters loved to hate.


Discounting 80 games at AFL level (for St Kilda) is done all too often, and is way too simplistic - it's not like Fiora was the only guys standing in the way of those others have mentioned.

Fiora was a passable AFL footballer, he doesn't have a big list of great games in Saints coulours, but was generally capable of fulfilling his role.

This was basically what Birss was fighting to be - for all the pleasure in his better games, to be a walk-up improvement would have been needed, otherwise he would have simply become a new whipping boy. Charlie Gardiner did get Fiora's chances. Geelong needed a CHF and a FF, and the moment Graham looked to have CHF nailed down, he moved to the states. The problem has still not really been solved, but Gardenr was one of a number of guys tried before they (pretty successfully) plugged one of those gaps by moving Mooney from CHB. Attard is a sad story of a knee injury, but had nothing to do with Aaron Fiora. Ferguson never stayed healthy, and again, wasn't a likely inclusion for Fiora at any time (or vice versa).

History tells us he wasn't as good as the guy we got him for or the guy Richmond got for him (Black and Simmonds), but as plugger points out, 80 games is a better use to the Saints than most of this years draftees will achieve, and there are a number of guys in the lineup now who still have to achieve that.

He came, he saw, he didn't do very much. He's not a villain.

[PJ]

Ray taken with 2nd round pick

Begley last call in the 08 draft

Both have ?? next to their names but I'm wondering which one has the most development in them. I also wonder how they compare as players?

[WayneJudson42]

So Ray is the new whipping boy?

Why compare him to Fiora ffs?

Give the kid a go, then have a whinge.

Talk about premature evaluation.

[aussierules0k]

[MasonCJ2]

I love the really forceful opinions on this topic that are then saddled with comments inferring that 'oh but i haven't really ever seen him play'!! Why write? And the references to super pace! HA HA. I'm quite positive on Ray but don't be expecting super pace; relative amounts of skill and class ok, but not super pace!

[mad saint guy]

So Ray is the new whipping boy?

Why compare him to Fiora ffs?

Because he's an outside midfielder who relies on his pace and fitness to make up for his dodgy skills and non-existent contested game. He was also a high draft pick who didn't live up to expectations at his first club so was shipped off in a low-cost trade.

His career has been very, very similar to Fiora's so far. Though I believe the only thing that stopped Fiora from being a handy regular was that he didn't get enough of the ball. Hopefully Ray can.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I love the really forceful opinions on this topic that are then saddled with comments inferring that 'oh but i haven't really ever seen him play'!! Why write? And the references to super pace! HA HA. I'm quite positive on Ray but don't be expecting super pace; relative amounts of skill and class ok, but not super pace!

Why do you infer that people haven't seen Ray play? Most of this thread's reviews seems to be from those who have.

Why bother? I suppose because I'm in a mood to respond to the only post which seems to put up a strong opinion without having seen much Farren Ray.

Expect some pace. Don't expect much in the way of skill and class, but expect some pace.

[sainterjo]

Maybe if he changed his name to Ray Farren then it might improve his skills. He's probably confused as to why he has a surname as a christain name and christain name as a surname. It might get him thinking straight and more direct in his approach to the game

Gold

It's Farren McGregg!

[sainterjo]

And that's less random than this effort. I laughed for ages:

"If you saw any saint walking on the side of the road which saint would it be?

Mine would be: Nick Heyne"

[Saints Premiers 2008]

So Ray is the new whipping boy?

Why compare him to Fiora ffs?

Because he's an outside midfielder who relies on his pace and fitness to make up for his dodgy skills and non-existent contested game. He was also a high draft pick who didn't live up to expectations at his first club so was shipped off in a low-cost trade.

His career has been very, very similar to Fiora's so far. Though I believe the only thing that stopped Fiora from being a handy regular was that he didn't get enough of the ball. Hopefully Ray can.

pretty much summed up fiora and ray in a short paragraph

you have one of the best football brains on here if not the best

[Richter]

Fyi, from footywire.....

Aaron Fiora

Age: 27yr 9mth
Born: April 19, 1981
Games: 140
Height: 186cm
Weight: 77kg
Drafted: Pick #3 1999 National Draft by Richmond Tigers

Games 140
Kicks 7.3
Handballs 4.1
Disposals 11.4
Marks 4.0
Goals 0.4
Behinds 0.4
Tackles 1.4
Hitouts 0.3
Frees for 0.6
Frees against 0.6


Farren Ray

Age: 22yr 10mth
Born: March 23, 1986
Games: 75
Height: 187cm
Weight: 84kg
Drafted: Pick #4 2003 National Draft By: Western Bulldogs

Games 75
Kicks 8.0
Handballs 7.0
Disposals 15.1
Marks 4.2
Goals 0.4
Behinds 0.4
Tackles 1.9
Hitouts 0.2
Frees for 0.4
Frees against 0.7

And for last year's head-to-head.... (from http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_p ... 6&pid2=447)

Farren Ray...........Aaron Fiora

13 2008 Games 10
7.9 Kicks Per Game 6.7
11.2 Handballs Per Game 4.9
19.2 Disposals Per Game 11.6
5.8 Marks Per Game 4.1
0.3 Goals Per Game 0.3
0.3 Behinds Per Game 0.3
2.5 Tackles Per Game 1.4
0.2 Hitouts Per Game 0.3
2.6 Inside 50s Per Game 1.4
0.2 Goal Assists Per Game 0.2
0.5 Goals Contributed Per Game 0.5

--------------------------------------------------------------

So yes, they are similar players, however it seems from the 2008 stats that whilst Aaron was clearly on the wane, Farren still likely has his best days in front of him. As I recall he was pretty vehement about leaving the Dogs and it seems likely that he had fallen out with Rodney Eade - now with almost any other coach you'd suggest that the player may be suspect, but with Eade..... well, if he sounds like a d******d and looks like a d******d, there's a pretty sound bet that Rocket is the one with the problem.

Back to the point, Farren certainly has "potential" - if he could pick up a cool 20+ possessions that would put him in our top ten possession winners. Of course, the quality of the possessions would need to mean something too - but given that his main competition is likely to be Eddy and CJ it's a fair bet to say that he's likely to have at least as good disposal as these guys.

[joffaboy]

Great post Richter.

Stats dont tell the whole story but it is a pretty fair comparison.

If we take it a step further using Mad Saints Guy post it would seem that Ray already gets about 7 possessions per game more than Fiora and that he has a tackle more per game.

As for the Eade fallout - the story goes that eade in one of his typical abusive foul mouth diatribes singled out Ray after the Dogs loss to the hawks in the finals and was abusing the s.hite out of him.

Ray stuck up for himself and Eade - the typical consumate players coach (ask any Sydney player who wanted to see the back of this see you next tuesday)- went ballistic and said "You C### - you will F#####ing never F####ing play for this F&&&&&ing club again" or something along those lines.

Ray was dropped wven though he wasn't the worst player for the Dogs and was duely traded.

Eade is an arsehole of the highest order.

[BigMart]

Yes - Eade is a dick....

Fiora was not bad......Farren will be a bit better....not as mercurial, but more consistent....

He will be a good pick up....

Fiora was an OK pick up.....

[midas_touch]

Fiora was nothing special, but wasn't the s*** player that he's been portrayed as on these forums.

As for Ray, he certainly looks like a similar type of player to Fiora, but is younger and has shown to be more consistent. Won't be expecting way too much, just as long as he's solid and consistent that's all that matters.

[saintsRrising]

will score goals, will break through the middle, will deliver the ball nicely..

I sincerely hope you're right Batnoe. However I've got about 5 Bulldog mates who all mentioned a similar theme in that he seems to get lost running the ball through the middle, consequently holding on to the ball too long and either getting tackled or kicking under pressure and causing a turnover, leaving team mates out of position.

. Two big key forwards should also be a bonus for him instaed of having to wait for a medium forward to create space.

.

I think that this is a very salient point and may well lead to a more effective Ray.

The "small" Doggies forward line and forward gameplan was very reliant on pin-point ball movement.

While great footskills are always appreciated delivery into our forward line might not be as tight as it is into the Doggies forward line.

[stinger]

eade isa flowering stinkhole of the highest order...only sin ray has committed in my eyes is that he should have decked the arsewipe before he left the kennel.....