where they'd be if??- zones

saintbrat · Post: # 690798Post **saintbrat** » Tue 06 Jan 2009 1:54pm

the AFL writers are doing the- what if Zones existed- excercise

Saints all over the place-
http://www.afl.com.au/News/NEWSARTICLE/ ... wsId=71149
4 teams today- Adelaide- Brisbane- Blues and Pies.
No current saints in the Crows list but the other three contain atleast two

Armoooo · Post: # 690846Post **Armoooo** » Tue 06 Jan 2009 4:37pm

Collingwood and Brisbane look pretty good.

Adelaide were looking awesome until I got to the forward line....

Let's just say I would love to see Carlton win more spoons with that line up.

Good backline and Midfield but NO forward line whatsoever, no rucks and no depth. I have barely even heard of any of the players on their bench...

jays · Post: # 690875Post **jays** » Tue 06 Jan 2009 6:22pm

imo carlton should be a top four side who knows what there doing wrong

Armoooo · Post: # 690884Post **Armoooo** » Tue 06 Jan 2009 6:56pm

jays wrote:imo carlton should be a top four side who knows what there doing wrong

What?

Warren Farkovski · Wed 07 Jan 2009 11:06am

this is not a dig Sainters but we (Blues) always seemed to do better out of the Bendigo zone than you guys did out of Ballarat when you would think they would be reasonably similar... you could name an absolutely champion Bendigo team that played for Carlton... now obviously you guys got Plugger, Frawley, Burns.... always seemed to be more Bendigo guys in our teams than Ballarat guys in yours...

degruch · Post: # 690982Post **degruch** » Wed 07 Jan 2009 11:53am

Warren Farkovski wrote:this is not a dig Sainters but we (Blues) always seemed to do better out of the Bendigo zone than you guys did out of Ballarat when you would think they would be reasonably similar... you could name an absolutely champion Bendigo team that played for Carlton... now obviously you guys got Plugger, Frawley, Burns.... always seemed to be more Bendigo guys in our teams than Ballarat guys in yours...

Ebs and flows...obviously we did well out of the 'rat in the 1980's. Still a handy recruiting zone.

saintbrat · Post: # 690997Post **saintbrat** » Wed 07 Jan 2009 1:07pm

not many saints amongst the next batch
one ex and one current
Essendon, Freemantle, Geelong and Hawthorn

EB · Post: # 691071Post EB » Wed 07 Jan 2009 5:26pm

They mucked up Essendon's side - Sam Mitchell and possibly Matt Bate should be at Carlton

Mr Magic · Post: # 691072Post **Mr Magic** » Wed 07 Jan 2009 5:32pm

degruch wrote:
Warren Farkovski wrote:this is not a dig Sainters but we (Blues) always seemed to do better out of the Bendigo zone than you guys did out of Ballarat when you would think they would be reasonably similar... you could name an absolutely champion Bendigo team that played for Carlton... now obviously you guys got Plugger, Frawley, Burns.... always seemed to be more Bendigo guys in our teams than Ballarat guys in yours...
Ebs and flows...obviously we did well out of the 'rat in the 1980's. Still a handy recruiting zone.

Gellie, Dunne, Kiel and of course that handy player Perovic.

ace · Post: # 691192Post **ace** » Thu 08 Jan 2009 3:08am

The zoning system stunk to hell.
A clubs destiny was based on the demographics of their zone.

If a zone consisted of mostly empty nests then their was little youth coming through and a club was doomed.
If a zone was in a growth corridor or contained a growth rural city with young kids growing up then a club would be successful.

St Kilda won its only premiership by recruiting interstate - Baldock and Stewart - whilst staying within the bounds of the Coulter Rule.
The Coulter Rule prevented payments to interstate recruits.

The zone system was so appalling that on one occassion the perennial wooden spooners recruited a guy called Cox who they thought was theirs but it turned out he belonged to Essendon.
I seem to remember a little turd called Sheedy said he was prepared to trade him to St Kilda in return for a young teenager. I think the kids name was Robert Harvey.

St Kilda declined, Cox played less than a handful of games for St Kilda.
I think St Kilda may have lost 4 points for a win in which he played illegally.
He would have been one of St Kilda's best but at Essendon he could not even hold a place.
Sheedy and the zoning system prevented Cox from having a football career.

ace · Post: # 691193Post **ace** » Thu 08 Jan 2009 3:20am

[quote="degruch"]
Ebs and flows...obviously we did well out of the 'rat in the 1980's. Still a handy recruiting zone.[/quote]

You have got to be joking,
Do you realise how many wooden spoons St Kilda won during the 80s.
Thanks to 'rat.
A club had to get an entire team list out of its' metro and country recruiting zones, not just a couple or so quality players over 10 years.

kosifantutti23 · Thu 08 Jan 2009 4:27am

ace wrote: The zone system was so appalling that on one occassion the perennial wooden spooners recruited a guy called Cox who they thought was theirs but it turned out he belonged to Essendon.
I seem to remember a little turd called Sheedy said he was prepared to trade him to St Kilda in return for a young teenager. I think the kids name was Robert Harvey.

St Kilda declined, Cox played less than a handful of games for St Kilda.
I think St Kilda may have lost 4 points for a win in which he played illegally.
He would have been one of St Kilda's best but at Essendon he could not even hold a place.
Sheedy and the zoning system prevented Cox from having a football career.

I thought Doug Cox was actually recruited from Adelaide but should have been tied to Richmond as he was from Mildura or had spent the relevant years in Mildura.

Saints tried to cover it up but the Tigers kept digging.

The figure $70,000 sticks in my mind. Not sure if that was a fine or a transfer fee we had to pay Richmond.

Cox did end up at Essendon but I don't know what the cirucmstances were.

Mr Magic · Post: # 691199Post **Mr Magic** » Thu 08 Jan 2009 7:45am

kosifantutti23 wrote:
ace wrote: The zone system was so appalling that on one occassion the perennial wooden spooners recruited a guy called Cox who they thought was theirs but it turned out he belonged to Essendon.
I seem to remember a little turd called Sheedy said he was prepared to trade him to St Kilda in return for a young teenager. I think the kids name was Robert Harvey.

St Kilda declined, Cox played less than a handful of games for St Kilda.
I think St Kilda may have lost 4 points for a win in which he played illegally.
He would have been one of St Kilda's best but at Essendon he could not even hold a place.
Sheedy and the zoning system prevented Cox from having a football career.
I thought Doug Cox was actually recruited from Adelaide but should have been tied to Richmond as he was from Mildura or had spent the relevant years in Mildura.

Saints tried to cover it up but the Tigers kept digging.

The figure $70,000 sticks in my mind. Not sure if that was a fine or a transfer fee we had to pay Richmond.

Cox did end up at Essendon but I don't know what the cirucmstances were.

I seem to recall that we recruited Cox whilst he was in teh Army and that he was subsequently found to be 'zoned' to Richmond?

degruch · Post: # 691213Post **degruch** » Thu 08 Jan 2009 9:06am

ace wrote:
degruch wrote: Ebs and flows...obviously we did well out of the 'rat in the 1980's. Still a handy recruiting zone.

You have got to be joking,
Do you realise how many wooden spoons St Kilda won during the 80s.
Thanks to 'rat.
A club had to get an entire team list out of its' metro and country recruiting zones, not just a couple or so quality players over 10 years.

No, of course I'm not joking. Look at the names above we recruited from that zone...you'd have put them in the starting 22 of any team in the league in their day. Got something against Ballarat mate?

saintbrat · Post: # 691222Post **saintbrat** » Thu 08 Jan 2009 10:12am

Three more teams today
http://www.afl.com.au/News/NEWSARTICLE/ ... wsId=71153

and a couple of Saints in them

interesting that they couldn't really get a full team for the Tigers

mad saint guy · Thu 08 Jan 2009 5:44pm

How can they have Jono Brown in one team and Maguire, Lewis and Moloney in another?

Mr Magic · Post: # 691384Post **Mr Magic** » Thu 08 Jan 2009 5:47pm

mad saint guy wrote:How can they have Jono Brown in one team and Maguire, Lewis and Moloney in another?

I believe they counted Brown as a father/son from Fitzroy.

mick13 · Post: # 691387Post **mick13** » Thu 08 Jan 2009 5:51pm

Port would dominate. 3 AA backmen?

B W and R all over · Fri 09 Jan 2009 11:37am

Ours is up today.
Looks like we'd have some handy midfielders...

http://afl.com.au/News/NEWSARTICLE/tabi ... wsId=71154

Winmar7Fan · Post: # 691585Post **Winmar7Fan** » Fri 09 Jan 2009 4:52pm

kosifantutti23 wrote:
ace wrote: The zone system was so appalling that on one occassion the perennial wooden spooners recruited a guy called Cox who they thought was theirs but it turned out he belonged to Essendon.
I seem to remember a little turd called Sheedy said he was prepared to trade him to St Kilda in return for a young teenager. I think the kids name was Robert Harvey.

St Kilda declined, Cox played less than a handful of games for St Kilda.
I think St Kilda may have lost 4 points for a win in which he played illegally.
He would have been one of St Kilda's best but at Essendon he could not even hold a place.
Sheedy and the zoning system prevented Cox from having a football career.
I thought Doug Cox was actually recruited from Adelaide but should have been tied to Richmond as he was from Mildura or had spent the relevant years in Mildura.

Saints tried to cover it up but the Tigers kept digging.

The figure $70,000 sticks in my mind. Not sure if that was a fine or a transfer fee we had to pay Richmond.

Cox did end up at Essendon but I don't know what the cirucmstances were.

Is this to do with the story I once heard where Trevor Barker donated his car he won for mark of the year to the Club to help pay for legal costs?

mick13 · Post: # 691590Post **mick13** » Fri 09 Jan 2009 5:06pm

"This recruiting year would have been a good one with first-round selections Watts, Tom Lynch, Ty Vickery and Mitch Brown all aligned to the Saints."

...

4 top 20 draft picks. Not bad.

evertonfc · Post: # 691592Post **evertonfc** » Fri 09 Jan 2009 5:13pm

B W and R all over wrote:Ours is up today.
Looks like we'd have some handy midfielders...

http://afl.com.au/News/NEWSARTICLE/tabi ... wsId=71154

Good job there mate. Must have taken ages to research. How bad is our forward line though...

EB · Post: # 691595Post EB » Fri 09 Jan 2009 5:24pm

It's better than the average forwardline.

Petrie would've been close to AA in 08, Crowley had a pretty good year (even if he is a tagger and not a forward). Notting is a 2 time premiership player, Edwards is pretty good and Watts *should* end up being an absolute gun. Bruce can also play as a forward.
imo the player I'd be most likely to omitt is X Clarke

ace · Post: # 691641Post **ace** » Fri 09 Jan 2009 10:01pm

[quote="degruch]
No, of course I'm not joking. Look at the names above we recruited from that zone...you'd have put them in the starting 22 of any team in the league in their day. Got something against Ballarat mate?[/quote]

The problem has nothing to do with quality of the best players.
Every club had its' star players.
The problem was the number of quality players were far too few.
St Kilda's zones stunk because they did not have enough youth coming through to produce the quantiity of good players necessary to get off the bottom of the ladder.
Essendon and Hawthorn had many times as many good players come from their zones and it showed in premierships won.
A simple matter of demographics that the VFL (not AFL then) did nothing to fix.

Nothing against Ballarat, it like the remainder of St Kilda's zones were better at producing good Australian's than footballers.

Remember you had to make up your entire list from your zones unless you could tempt an interstate player.
Not much chance of that with a cupboard full of wooden spoons and bankruptcy loomimg

degruch · Post: # 691651Post **degruch** » Fri 09 Jan 2009 10:32pm

Well, it appears that for a short period of time we did very well out of Ballarat...I wonder how many champions Hawthorn extracted from the bigger Frankston area during the 1980's in comparison? I can't see that the 'rat is any worse than any other zone, so why would I be joking when I say it was a handy?