Belvedere Park Planning Application Lodged

[casey scorp]

If I'm a fool (and I could see the shortcomings of Frankston Park despite all of the protestations of your ilk), then that makes a lot of other people seem extremely foolish.

And, as for you, you're just not even worth commenting on any further. Period.

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

I'm a fool...

For once we agree!

[St Fidelius]

I'm a fool...

For once we agree!

ease up mate, casey scorp has never name called anyone...

and I really don't see any value in starting one IMO..

Casey scorp has his agendas, and has brought them onto the table for debate, nothing wrong with that and I commend him for doing so...

Lets stop with any abuse toward casey scorp, he has never abused anyone on here and lets just respond to him the same way

[Richter]

ease up mate, casey scorp has never name called anyone...

and I really don't see any value in starting one IMO..

Casey scorp has his agendas, and has brought them onto the table for debate, nothing wrong with that and I commend him for doing so...

Lets stop with any abuse toward casey scorp, he has never abused anyone on here and lets just respond to him the same way

Agreed St Fid.

Oh, and by the way FQF...... from http://localhistory.kingston.vic.gov.au ... le/191.htm

The Carrum Swamp in those days measured about fifteen kilometres from north to south, and averaged about five kilometres across from east to west, and was about eight kilometres wide at the northern end. The only high lands visible in the swamp were the Isles of Wannarkladdin, now Chelsea Heights. The swampland with its dense growth of swamp tea-tree and other vegetation was covered for the most part by the waters from the Dandenong, Eumemmering, and other smaller creeks, with a total catchment area of approximately 430 square kilometres, with the present townships of Langwarrin, Cranbourne, Berwick, Belgrave, Ferntree Gully, Olinda, Lilydale, Croydon and Ringwood roughly forming its perimeter. Some of the waters eventually flowed through marshy country to the Mordialloc Creek (Mordialloc meaning small tidal stream) or through to the Kananook which flowed into the bay at Frankston.

Now I'm not from the area but a simple look at the map shows me that Langwarrin is further South than Keast Park. Hence your statement (FQF) that.......

Carrum Carrum Swamp was actually further to the north, it's southernmost part being near the area known as Keast Park which is on the border of Seaford and Carrum, around 5km as the crow flies from Belvedere Park.

is not exactly....

100% correct

Further down on the page it states that.....

The survey between the swamp and the sea resulted in Mr Callinan, the State’s assistant surveyor, dividing the area into 18 allotments stretching from the Mordialloc Creek to the present Keast Park, Seaford. The land was referred to as the ‘Allotments on the Long Beach’

Caseyscorp may be opinionated, but he wears them on his sleeve openly and tells it how he sees it. AFAICS he's merely pointing out a few salient facts about the area.

I for one am pleased that we look as if we're getting a new training home at long last - for personal reasons I would have preferred Moorrabin but that wasn't to be. Seems pretty reasonable to me though that we should hold the board to account for their decisions. Being armed with facts is surely the key to doing that.

[saint66au]

I'm a fool...

For once we agree!

Blatant baiting..cut it out please

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

The Carrum Swamp in those days measured about fifteen kilometres from north to south, and averaged about five kilometres across from east to west, and was about eight kilometres wide at the northern end. The only high lands visible in the swamp were the Isles of Wannarkladdin, now Chelsea Heights. The swampland with its dense growth of swamp tea-tree and other vegetation was covered for the most part by the waters from the Dandenong, Eumemmering, and other smaller creeks, with a total catchment area of approximately 430 square kilometres, with the present townships of Langwarrin, Cranbourne, Berwick, Belgrave, Ferntree Gully, Olinda, Lilydale, Croydon and Ringwood roughly forming its perimeter. Some of the waters eventually flowed through marshy country to the Mordialloc Creek (Mordialloc meaning small tidal stream) or through to the Kananook which flowed into the bay at Frankston.

Geez Scorp... you better hope this is wrong... according to this Narre Warren South is within the area which used to be the Carrum Carrum Swamp!

How's the drainage at your place? Any lagoons in your backyard? Is your house sinking into the swamp?

Just goes to show how silly your original post really was!

[skeptic]

ease up mate, casey scorp has never name called anyone...

and I really don't see any value in starting one IMO..

Casey scorp has his agendas, and has brought them onto the table for debate, nothing wrong with that and I commend him for doing so...

Lets stop with any abuse toward casey scorp, he has never abused anyone on here and lets just respond to him the same way

i think FQF was just making a point about taking things out of context and misquoting

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

ease up mate, casey scorp has never name called anyone...

and I really don't see any value in starting one IMO..

Casey scorp has his agendas, and has brought them onto the table for debate, nothing wrong with that and I commend him for doing so...

Lets stop with any abuse toward casey scorp, he has never abused anyone on here and lets just respond to him the same way

i think FQF was just making a point about taking things out of context and misquoting

Exactly!

[casey scorp]

Is there deception underway, or is it something else?

There is an officer’s report to next Monday’s Frankston Council meeting (15 December) about the lease of part of the Belvedere Park to St KFC. Two objections have been received from local residents to the lease of the land.

The report advises Councillors that there will be a public meeting with residents on 17 December for the residents to meet with Council’s planning consultants, St KFC representatives and project design consultants, stating “the meeting is intended to provide an extra opportunity for residents to air any concerns prior to formal application being made for a town planning permitâ€

[Ice Wolf]

[quote="casey scorp"]Is there deception underway, or is it something else?

There is an officer’s report to next Monday’s Frankston Council meeting (15 December) about the lease of part of the Belvedere Park to St KFC. Two objections have been received from local residents to the lease of the land.

The report advises Councillors that there will be a public meeting with residents on 17 December for the residents to meet with Council’s planning consultants, St KFC representatives and project design consultants, stating “the meeting is intended to provide an extra opportunity for residents to air any concerns prior to formal application being made for a town planning permitâ€

[casey scorp]

Refer to pages 1 to 4 of this link:

http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/library ... 20Info.pdf

Most of the grounds of objection to the lease aren't related to that particular issue, and in fact some raise totally irrelevant issues like poker machines.

You are correct - the primary issue around the lease should be the question about the alienation of public open space. Although often it is used as a vehicle to raise other concerns.

The real battleground, if there is to be one, will be the planning application.

Interestingly, the lease is only for the development footprint, and does not include the oval. Accordingly, St KFC will not be permitted exclusive use of the oval.

[Ice Wolf]

Refer to pages 1 to 4 of this link:

http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/library ... 20Info.pdf

Most of the grounds of objection to the lease aren't related to that particular issue, and in fact some raise totally irrelevant issues like poker machines.

You are correct - the primary issue around the lease should be the question about the alienation of public open space. Although often it is used as a vehicle to raise other concerns.

The real battleground, if there is to be one, will be the planning application.

Interestingly, the lease is only for the development footprint, and does not include the oval. Accordingly, St KFC will not be permitted exclusive use of the oval.

Just read most of the "objections" and there is pretty much nothing to them and most if not all have already been answered and most can be answered through common sence or are non issues like the pool access question.

Seriously does the resident have access to the pool there now? What do you mean theres no pool there at them moment?

As to the walking track on every drawing of the site so far the path has been retained.

As to the car parking again on evrey drawing so far there is car parking as part of the development.

As to the open space issue, there will be numerous ovals on the site only one of which will be used by the club.

The only real issue is access to the site and most of that will be helped by the Frankston Bypass.

[Moorabbin Saints]

With the site, I would only assume that with Lyon's love of closed sessions, that the main oval can be blocked off from the public if needed? You can see in the graphic that the oval doesn't seem to include a fence or barriers.

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

The only real issue is access to the site and most of that will be helped by the Frankston Bypass.

I doubt the Frankston bypass will help the access issue.

I think the issues is that currently, if you are driving west along Seaford Rd you cannot turn right into Ti-tree grove. With the anticipated increse in traffic I can understand the resident's concern here, but it's not a big deal to resolve.

[Ice Wolf]

The only real issue is access to the site and most of that will be helped by the Frankston Bypass.

I doubt the Frankston bypass will help the access issue.

I think the issues is that currently, if you are driving west along Seaford Rd you cannot turn right into Ti-tree grove. With the anticipated increse in traffic I can understand the resident's concern here, but it's not a big deal to resolve.

One of the objections was that Eastlink had increased the traffic in the area. The Bypass would help with that it would also decrease the normal trraffic through the area that tries to take a short cut around frankstons traffic nightmare at cranbourne road

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

The only real issue is access to the site and most of that will be helped by the Frankston Bypass.

I doubt the Frankston bypass will help the access issue.

I think the issues is that currently, if you are driving west along Seaford Rd you cannot turn right into Ti-tree grove. With the anticipated increse in traffic I can understand the resident's concern here, but it's not a big deal to resolve.

One of the objections was that Eastlink had increased the traffic in the area. The Bypass would help with that it would also decrease the normal trraffic through the area that tries to take a short cut around frankstons traffic nightmare at cranbourne road

I think the Eastlink issue is a bit of a furphy... I travel through this area daily and if anything Eastlink has reduced traffic in and around the Seaford Rd/Frankston-Dandenong Rd precinct.

Serial objectors IMO, and really only a minor glitch. Even if their objections got all the way to VCAT (which I doubt they will) they would be quickly tossed out.

[saintspremiers]

With the site, I would only assume that with Lyon's love of closed sessions, that the main oval can be blocked off from the public if needed? You can see in the graphic that the oval doesn't seem to include a fence or barriers.

.....not a problem if the media can't be bothered trekking all the way out to Seaford!

[St Fidelius]

Some key dates.

The St Kilda Football Club will hold a public information session on 17 December 2008 at Seaford Park Primary School. This will allow residents to ask questions about the proposed facility.


The application is expected to be formally advertised in January 2009 for public comment, prior to any recommendation being made to Council.

This process will ensure all members of the community have the opportunity to be fully informed abouth the development and have their views considered by Frankston City Council and the St Kilda Football Club.


December 17, 2008

Information Session 5pm - 7pm, Seaford Park Primary School.

January 2009

Public Notification of the Planning Application

February/March 2009

Residents Discussion Meeting.

Determination of Application at Council's Planning and Submission Meeting

[RBnW]

Refer to pages 1 to 4 of this link:

http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/library ... 20Info.pdf

Most of the grounds of objection to the lease aren't related to that particular issue, and in fact some raise totally irrelevant issues like poker machines.

You are correct - the primary issue around the lease should be the question about the alienation of public open space. Although often it is used as a vehicle to raise other concerns.

The real battleground, if there is to be one, will be the planning application.

Interestingly, the lease is only for the development footprint, and does not include the oval. Accordingly, St KFC will not be permitted exclusive use of the oval.

Scorp you continue to make statements that you are so sure of and make out are real facts......the latest one being "Accordingly St KFC will not be permitted exclusive use of the oval"........Let me assure all of those who read this Crap that you keep putting out....... that the club Has control of the oval not through the lease but through a licence agreement......and being in council you would have know that, but why tell the truth when you can spin another negative......you make me sick.....

Go back to Methaine Fields and suck it in baby.......

[casey scorp]

You are right - St Kilda has access to the oval through a licence.

But a licence by its very nature provides non-exclusive rights of occupancy, as compared to a lease which provides exclusive occupancy.

That is what I said - St Kilda will not have exclusive use of the oval.

If St Kilda was to have exclusive use of the oval it would have been included in the leased area, but it isn't.

[casey scorp]

There is an officer’s report to next Monday’s Frankston Council meeting (15 December) about the lease of part of the Belvedere Park to St KFC. Two objections have been received from local residents to the lease of the land.

The Council meeting minutes show that, despite an officers’ recommendation to support granting the lease, the matter was unanimously deferred by Councillors to the next Council meeting (which is scheduled for 2 February 2009).

Decision on Saints put off
http://frankston.yourguide.com.au/news/ ... 90035.aspx

The report advises Councillors that there will be a public meeting with residents on 17 December for the residents to meet with Council’s planning consultants, St KFC representatives and project design consultants, stating “the meeting is intended to provide an extra opportunity for residents to air any concerns prior to formal application being made for a town planning permitâ€

[saintspremiers]

well it's time we start railroading that farking council and get something happening.

FFS now 2 Feb meeting.

So they wank each other off then again, and defer a decision again until March.

No wonder Casper the Friendly President (Westaway) is on his way out!

[joffaboy]

This is really getting a stench about it.

Sounds like the great white knight Westaway and his merry band of messiahs you all fell over yourselves voting in are making a terrible mess of things.

The club is going down the S bend with these clowns at the helm.

[saintspremiers]

This is really getting a stench about it.

Sounds like the great white knight Westaway and his merry band of messiahs you all fell over yourselves voting in are making a terrible mess of things.

The club is going down the S bend with these clowns at the helm.

Agree.

I always said at the time that I'd give Footy First a year or two, now looks like only one.

So it's a revolving door of fools again at St Kilda.

Surely if Westaway goes, so does Archie also?

....we can only hope!

[casey scorp]

Interestingly, the lease is only for the development footprint, and does not include the oval. Accordingly, St KFC will not be permitted exclusive use of the oval.

Scorp you continue to make statements that you are so sure of and make out are real facts......the latest one being "Accordingly St KFC will not be permitted exclusive use of the oval"........Let me assure all of those who read this Crap that you keep putting out....... that the club Has control of the oval not through the lease but through a licence agreement......and being in council you would have know that, but why tell the truth when you can spin another negative......you make me sick.....

From a “Fact Sheetâ€