Gardner OK - Cousins NOT

[Mr Magic]

Anybody hear Brian Waldron on SEN this morning?
He stated categorically that up to 2 weeks ago the Saints were committed to taking Cousins and that something happened in the last 2 weeks to make them change their minds.
When pressed by KB he said that Patrick Smith probably had 'gotten it right' - there were too many things over the last week that raised questions about Cousins. He said that he could well imagine Nathan Burke announcing at the Board Meeting that it 'was all too much and what are we doing?'.

He referred to , the lukewarm response from Cousins' camp on his re-registering, the choice to attend the funeral, the shaving and waxing of all body hair.
He said that none of them in themselves were proof of anything but each in isolation would cause you to raise an eyebrow, and combined would give you reason to ask serious questions.

[Saint Bev]

He's a junkie, for christ's sake. A new jumper and a great CV ain't gonna change that. And until he proves to anyone that he can operate like something more than a smug untouchable outlaw, then I suspect no one will show much interest. We gave him FIVE months to prove he was up to the standard we required. He wasn't. He's not right for us. Decision's made. Get over it.

Exactly and a ten year habit at that. Maybe they know something we don't like the other 16 clubs! Seriously get over it, there is no guarantees he wil,l a - recover and b - play well.

[skeptic]

I think we are in furious agreement skeptic. I agree that M Gardiner didn't need the type of scrunity that Cousins did.

He stuffed up a few times but is not a self confessed drug addict (and a ten year one at that) and was not banned by the AFL for bringing the game into disrepute.

Why should there be the same scrutiny on Gardiner?

Two different scenarios.

Lol, i think you're right. I think I may have misinterpreted what u meant by oh snap

[WayneJudson42]

Did we? Did we give due dilligence, and a 5 month investigation as to the company he kept, his behaviour etc etc?

If we did - we've certainly dropped the ball on that one since then.

Well, for someone who is ranting on about the board being disohnest, and how they should either tell us the truth, or say nothing...

A comment like the one above is laced with insinuation and innuendo.

You hypocrite!

What do you know about MG, Rodge?

Either say nothing or tell the truth.

People are missing my point, conduct a 5 month review on any currently listed AFL player and see what you find out. I simply asked the question of due dilligence regarding MG, because people are finding it so easy to make moral decisions on who is more worthy of a lifeline in this circumstance.

A lifeline is just that....

I get your point, and it's a valid one.

My comment was aimed at RF who is showing double standars by call the club liars... then lobbing suggestive grenades about MG.

[sunsaint]

couldn't agree more with you devilhead
You have completely and logically sunk him here!

IMHO this is totally and literally unreasonable ie purely emotive thinking! and thank heavens these fans have no say in running the club

Oh puuuuuuuuuuurlllllllleeeeessse
the question was rhetorical
so Devilhead got a wheelbarrow full of camel hairs wasted time splitting them to thread through the eye of a needle.
logically sunk? DH's answer slammed himself into his own logic by bringing it to our attention that in the past 30 years only 11 BM players fit the criteria. What he should have done is then get the total players over 30 years and given us a percentage. Now that might have impressed me.
It happens so rarely that when it does its a stand out, although come to think of it StKilda probably has given away more BM players to other clubs during the course of history. There you go DH wanna do the stats on that one????

[barks4eva]

We took Michael Gardner in 2006 who had played a handful of games since 2003 and has a F***ed body. and had serious off-field issues and used DP#43 to do so.

Yet

Denied the 2005 Browlnow medallist, whose body is as fit as any player who has ever played. Cousins was in rare touch as late as 2007 averaging 25 possessions a game..

This decision is disgraceful, and goes against the want of the members and coaches and players......and AFL community...

it happens when a bunch of suits try to make decisions about sport, when they have zero fu**ing idea....really football matters should be left to those who know something about the game....i want to win, and seriously could not give a rats about upholding bullsh*t values.

Football First........seriously, besides two, who in that group actually understands the game......especially not a scottish git, whose every decision seem to be a massive F*** up.

I will seriously consider my position in supporting a basket case.....tonight will be remembered as the night our club made another poor decision and let a golden opportunity (risk albeit) slip......how often do you get the chance to take a brownlow medallist?????

F*** heads

Agree 100%

Cousins might actually be the one player who could make a difference in our midfield and this decision made by a board who should have been kicked out yesterday, might actually cost us a premiership!

Who knows, but it is very possible, that in 2009 with Cousins, potentially we were going to be a much bigger threat to any opposition club.

As for footy first, those f****** had better be ready when the AGM comes around!

FAIR DINKUM

[tweedaletomanning]

We took Michael Gardner in 2006 who had played a handful of games since 2003 and has a F***ed body. and had serious off-field issues and used DP#43 to do so.

Yet

Denied the 2005 Browlnow medallist, whose body is as fit as any player who has ever played. Cousins was in rare touch as late as 2007 averaging 25 possessions a game..

This decision is disgraceful, and goes against the want of the members and coaches and players......and AFL community...

it happens when a bunch of suits try to make decisions about sport, when they have zero fu**ing idea....really football matters should be left to those who know something about the game....i want to win, and seriously could not give a rats about upholding bullsh*t values.

Football First........seriously, besides two, who in that group actually understands the game......especially not a scottish git, whose every decision seem to be a massive F*** up.

I will seriously consider my position in supporting a basket case.....tonight will be remembered as the night our club made another poor decision and let a golden opportunity (risk albeit) slip......how often do you get the chance to take a brownlow medallist?????

F*** heads

Agree 100%

Cousins might actually be the one player who could make a difference in our midfield and this decision made by a board who should have been kicked out yesterday, might actually cost us a premiership!

Who knows, but it is very possible, that in 2009 with Cousins, potentially we were going to be a much bigger threat to any opposition club.

As for footy first, those f****** had better be ready when the AGM comes around!

FAIR DINKUM

Have to Agree!!

It's more like "FOOTY FIRST, PREMIERSHIPS LAST"

[BigMart]

Joffa.....

Do not raise Sam Fisher, everytime a draft argument is raised.....my point with JB is that he is old school in regards to drafting and the times suggest you do the research, and look at elite level talant identification, and you will succeed more often than local/average state leagues....

Our late picks have been gamble (which is OK) some work, some don't.....but wasting high picks on a gamble is ludicrous....

everytime you want to mention a S.Fisher (who was pick 55 BTW), I raise you a Sweeney 71, Raymond 63, McGough 43, Rix 51 and of course Howard 27......

It is the ignoring of the TAC Cup which has interested me.....up until Peake took over >75% of our previous 6 seasons were picks from outside the best junior league in the country.....

[evertonfc]

First Bevo got blasted for taking Armo because - wait for it - he was another Queenslander, like there is something wrong with that.

I don't recall that at all. Most were quite happy with DA.

Next, Bevo was abused and derided for picking Howard at 27. In hindsight that was a wrong move but the vitriol and rampant egoism of the armchair "experts" was appalling.

I think we were just fed up with such a good pick being used on such a speculative player.

And history proved us correct.

[WayneJudson42]

We took Michael Gardner in 2006 who had played a handful of games since 2003 and has a F***ed body. and had serious off-field issues and used DP#43 to do so.

Yet

Denied the 2005 Browlnow medallist, whose body is as fit as any player who has ever played. Cousins was in rare touch as late as 2007 averaging 25 possessions a game..

This decision is disgraceful, and goes against the want of the members and coaches and players......and AFL community...

it happens when a bunch of suits try to make decisions about sport, when they have zero fu**ing idea....really football matters should be left to those who know something about the game....i want to win, and seriously could not give a rats about upholding bullsh*t values.

Football First........seriously, besides two, who in that group actually understands the game......especially not a scottish git, whose every decision seem to be a massive F*** up.

I will seriously consider my position in supporting a basket case.....tonight will be remembered as the night our club made another poor decision and let a golden opportunity (risk albeit) slip......how often do you get the chance to take a brownlow medallist?????

F*** heads

Agree 100%

Cousins might actually be the one player who could make a difference in our midfield and this decision made by a board who should have been kicked out yesterday, might actually cost us a premiership!

Who knows, but it is very possible, that in 2009 with Cousins, potentially we were going to be a much bigger threat to any opposition club.

As for footy first, those f****** had better be ready when the AGM comes around!

FAIR DINKUM

Weren't you the one on here praising RL for finally listening to you and playing the kids???????????

[Eastern]

Anybody hear Brian Waldron on SEN this morning?
He stated categorically that up to 2 weeks ago the Saints were committed to taking Cousins and that something happened in the last 2 weeks to make them change their minds.
When pressed by KB he said that Patrick Smith probably had 'gotten it right' - there were too many things over the last week that raised questions about Cousins. He said that he could well imagine Nathan Burke announcing at the Board Meeting that it 'was all too much and what are we doing?'.

He referred to , the lukewarm response from Cousins' camp on his re-registering, the choice to attend the funeral, the shaving and waxing of all body hair.
He said that none of them in themselves were proof of anything but each in isolation would cause you to raise an eyebrow, and combined would give you reason to ask serious questions.

I heard it.

My take on is that BW knows something, wanted to say something, started to say something, then thought better of it and diverted.

It sounds very much like "certain events" of the past fortnight changed the minds of our directors/executive !!

[BigMart]

Questions are

Why Gardiner, not Cousins??? Both risky due to history and Body
Youth policy since when???? - a straight out LIE
Come clean with some answers - Give your stakeholders some answers...


BTW - This OP was my Opinion, and I never stated it was FACT.......most thing are opinions written on here.....

Solar - i identified two on the board were footballers....read carefully.

Lastly, Archie Fraser has struggled making the righ moves....IMO

[Eastern]

Questions are

Why Gardiner, not Cousins??? Both risky due to history and Body
Youth policy since when???? - a straight out LIE
Come clean with some answers - Give your stakeholders some answers...
BTW - This OP was my Opinion, and I never stated it was FACT.......most thing are opinions written on here.....

Solar - i identified two on the board were footballers....read carefully.

Lastly, Archie Fraser has struggled making the righ moves....IMO

I would suggest that the club would be in possession of some very sensative and very confidential information on Ben Cousins. If the club was to let one member know this info they would need to let every member know. They might as well hand the entire file over to Fatpryk, Caro, Pruneface etc.

I would suggest that would then be curtians for our entire board/executive in any business dealings that involved any form of confidentiality, and that includes most dealings with Federal, State & Local Government as well as the AFL.

We are getting an $11Mill facility for $1.4Mill because our board/executive can be trusted with matters of confidentiality. They wouldn't jepordise that !!

[Devilhead]

Questions are

Why Gardiner, not Cousins??? Both risky due to history and Body
Youth policy since when???? - a straight out LIE
Come clean with some answers - Give your stakeholders some answers...
BTW - This OP was my Opinion, and I never stated it was FACT.......most thing are opinions written on here.....

Solar - i identified two on the board were footballers....read carefully.

Lastly, Archie Fraser has struggled making the righ moves....IMO

I would suggest that the club would be in possession of some very sensative and very confidential information on Ben Cousins. If the club was to let one member know this info they would need to let every member know. They might as well hand the entire file over to Fatpryk, Caro, Pruneface etc.

I would suggest that would then be curtians for our entire board/executive in any business dealings that involved any form of confidentiality, and that includes most dealings with Federal, State & Local Government as well as the AFL.

We are getting an $11Mill facility for $1.4Mill because our board/executive can be trusted with matters of confidentiality. They wouldn't jepordise that !!

Seriously Eastern I wouldn't waste your time

Your reasoning has been put forth numerous times in other posts yet the whingers are still too stupid to put 1 and 1 together either that our they have selective reading skills

As for your little rant Sunsaint

i think you will find that my findings with regards to brownlow medallists being available were in response to a specific question (rhetorical or not it was still a question) that BM had asked - I wasn't trying to be a smartarse or trying to prove a point I was just answering a question that he put forth and my findings were accurate with regards to the said question

Maybe that sun is getting to your head a little

[Dan Warna]

here's a hypothetical

what if the club had evidence on BC that they were unsure on the legal aspects of releasing.

As some know BC has been quite close to the club for some months, even from last season during games.

The club could be exposed to potential legal action and scrutiny if they did reveal information they knew on ben cousins.

Further if they did know information on cousins, its not st kilda's responsibility to rehabilitate him.

BC made his judgements, made his calls, and made his life decisions, now he has to live with the consequences.

IMO st kilda wasted enough time and resources on him already.

[saint66au]

We took Michael Gardner in 2006 who had played a handful of games since 2003 and has a F***ed body. and had serious off-field issues and used DP#43 to do so.

Yet

Denied the 2005 Browlnow medallist, whose body is as fit as any player who has ever played. Cousins was in rare touch as late as 2007 averaging 25 possessions a game..

This decision is disgraceful, and goes against the want of the members and coaches and players......and AFL community...

it happens when a bunch of suits try to make decisions about sport, when they have zero fu**ing idea....really football matters should be left to those who know something about the game....i want to win, and seriously could not give a rats about upholding bullsh*t values.

Football First........seriously, besides two, who in that group actually understands the game......especially not a scottish git, whose every decision seem to be a massive F*** up.

I will seriously consider my position in supporting a basket case.....tonight will be remembered as the night our club made another poor decision and let a golden opportunity (risk albeit) slip......how often do you get the chance to take a brownlow medallist?????

F*** heads

Agree 100%

Cousins might actually be the one player who could make a difference in our midfield and this decision made by a board who should have been kicked out yesterday, might actually cost us a premiership!

Who knows, but it is very possible, that in 2009 with Cousins, potentially we were going to be a much bigger threat to any opposition club.

As for footy first, those f****** had better be ready when the AGM comes around!

FAIR DINKUM

What do I get the impression that if the board suddenly turned around and said we were developing Elsternwick Park, starting Monday morning..that suddenly you'd be far more at ease with the decision on BC

This board/club could deliver us a flag in 09 and you'd still be grizzling cos we'd be moving to Seaford

[St Fidelius]

What do I get the impression that if the board suddenly turned around and said we were developing Elsternwick Park, starting Monday morning..that suddenly you'd be far more at ease with the decision on BC

This board/club could deliver us a flag in 09 and you'd still be grizzling cos we'd be moving to Seaford

agreed saint66au....

b4e just loves a whinge and will not stop...

whinged and moan with tireless threads about Rix...

Now he is sticking his teeth into this current administration...

He talks and rambles about tradition and how his great grand father would be "turning in his grave"...

Yet he honestly believes that moving somewhere closer to St Kilda is the answer and in some way "falls in line with his traditional beliefs...

Again, the Club is not going to play an AFL football match where ever re locate....

Do you understand that b4e???

Again, both Collingwood and Hawthorn have moved on, and have training facilities that are not located at their "spiritual home" or traditional location...

Move on FFS...

[saintspremiers]

Anybody hear Brian Waldron on SEN this morning?
He stated categorically that up to 2 weeks ago the Saints were committed to taking Cousins and that something happened in the last 2 weeks to make them change their minds.
When pressed by KB he said that Patrick Smith probably had 'gotten it right' - there were too many things over the last week that raised questions about Cousins. He said that he could well imagine Nathan Burke announcing at the Board Meeting that it 'was all too much and what are we doing?'.

He referred to , the lukewarm response from Cousins' camp on his re-registering, the choice to attend the funeral, the shaving and waxing of all body hair.
He said that none of them in themselves were proof of anything but each in isolation would cause you to raise an eyebrow, and combined would give you reason to ask serious questions.

Nathan Burke is non-drinker, and perhaps biased against ex-druggies....dunno, just a thought?

In any case, it does add up and make some sense what Waldron said.....my thoughts are though that Cousins managed to avoid getting booted out through positive tests in the past, and may have had means to buck the system again (sure, shaving your body helps!).

I couldn't give a stuff if he was on the juice with us, as long as he didn't get caught.

I also wouldn't mind if he hung out with his scum mates if he still played top footy that he was once capable of, and didn't end up in the slammer!

Yes BC has come across as an arrogant prick - but I rather like that - it's an attitude missing from most of our players, and can make a positive onfield statement if used in the right way.

[Dan Warna]

how many of the US track athletes were 'caught' doing drugs? including marion jones?

most of them were caught out when the company supplying them steriods was busted and their records were laid open to investigators.

then they tearfully admitted they knowingly took drugs.

the US olympic 2000 womens 4*100, 3 women were subsequently done for drugs, none were caught at the time.

basically except for the real dumbasses, they invest as much in concealment as consumption, and are often caught by detection of the paraphanalia, suprise testing (see the Greek athletes suspended for MISSING a drug testing) and the continuing shame of the Tour De France.

[JeffDunne]

Difference between Cousins & Gardiner?

Gardiner was offered an opportunity and he seems to have taken it.

Cousins was offered an opportunity and he thumb his nose at it.

[saintsRrising]

Difference between Cousins & Gardiner?

Gardiner was offered an opportunity and he seems to have taken it.

Cousins was offered an opportunity and he thumb his nose at it.

Yes that sums it up.


Cousins unfortunately still shows every sign that he believes that he is bigger than any club.

His whole recent attitude and actions have radiated that he will do what he wants and that he believed that clubs should consider themselves blessed to have him.

Gardy by contrast pulled in his head and ego (and while naturally still a lair) and did all that the club asked....and importantly was appreciative to be given a second chance by the Saints.

The "hair shave" and continued liaising with criminal elements being but two recent warnings that Cousins will do what Cousins wants too....rather than what is potential employers want.


Initially I was upset that the club did not take Cousins....but Cousins has shown that he simply is not prepared to do all he can, and should, to deserve to be selected by us.

Importantly his recent behaviour also flagged to all that he would continue to be an arrogant loose cannon.

[rodgerfox]

Difference between Cousins & Gardiner?

Gardiner was offered an opportunity and he seems to have taken it.

Cousins was offered an opportunity and he thumb his nose at it.

Yes that sums it up.


Cousins unfortunately still shows every sign that he believes that he is bigger than any club.

His whole recent attitude and actions have radiated that he will do what he wants and that he believed that clubs should consider themselves blessed to have him.

Gardy by contrast pulled in his head and ego (and while naturally still a lair) and did all that the club asked....and importantly was appreciative to be given a second chance by the Saints.

The "hair shave" and continued liaising with criminal elements being but two recent warnings that Cousins will do what Cousins wants too....rather than what is potential employers want.


Initially I was upset that the club did not take Cousins....but Cousins has shown that he simply is not prepared to do all he can, and should, to deserve to be selected by us.

Importantly his recent behaviour also flagged to all that he would continue to be an arrogant loose cannon.

What planet are you on?

[Richter]

Difference between Cousins & Gardiner?

Gardiner was offered an opportunity and he seems to have taken it.

Cousins was offered an opportunity and he thumb his nose at it.

Yes that sums it up.


Cousins unfortunately still shows every sign that he believes that he is bigger than any club.

His whole recent attitude and actions have radiated that he will do what he wants and that he believed that clubs should consider themselves blessed to have him.

Gardy by contrast pulled in his head and ego (and while naturally still a lair) and did all that the club asked....and importantly was appreciative to be given a second chance by the Saints.

The "hair shave" and continued liaising with criminal elements being but two recent warnings that Cousins will do what Cousins wants too....rather than what is potential employers want.


Initially I was upset that the club did not take Cousins....but Cousins has shown that he simply is not prepared to do all he can, and should, to deserve to be selected by us.

Importantly his recent behaviour also flagged to all that he would continue to be an arrogant loose cannon.

What planet are you on?

THe planet COMMON SENSE Rodger.

Agree with you sRs. I was also upset that we didn't take Cousins. We were clearly extremely interested. Must have been a tough decision to walk away - the club obviously decided the risks of taking him were too high.

Questions remain....

Why so last minute? Presumably because something late occurred that swayed the board's mind against taking him...... ?The attendance at the funeral.... ?the hair shave..... ?some collateral info, possibly coming from another source (AFL, Collingwood)..... last minute sponsor windiness (less likely IMO)

Why announced with such a strange and frankly unbelievable spin? THough in all fariness with the draft we have indeed loaded up with youngsters. Probably just that no-one e.g. NB or GW wanted to put their head above the parapet at this stage.

[rodgerfox]

Difference between Cousins & Gardiner?

Gardiner was offered an opportunity and he seems to have taken it.

Cousins was offered an opportunity and he thumb his nose at it.

Yes that sums it up.


Cousins unfortunately still shows every sign that he believes that he is bigger than any club.

His whole recent attitude and actions have radiated that he will do what he wants and that he believed that clubs should consider themselves blessed to have him.

Gardy by contrast pulled in his head and ego (and while naturally still a lair) and did all that the club asked....and importantly was appreciative to be given a second chance by the Saints.

The "hair shave" and continued liaising with criminal elements being but two recent warnings that Cousins will do what Cousins wants too....rather than what is potential employers want.


Initially I was upset that the club did not take Cousins....but Cousins has shown that he simply is not prepared to do all he can, and should, to deserve to be selected by us.

Importantly his recent behaviour also flagged to all that he would continue to be an arrogant loose cannon.

What planet are you on?

THe planet COMMON SENSE Rodger.

Agree with you sRs. I was also upset that we didn't take Cousins. We were clearly extremely interested. Must have been a tough decision to walk away - the club obviously decided the risks of taking him were too high.

Questions remain....

Why so last minute? Presumably because something late occurred that swayed the board's mind against taking him...... ?The attendance at the funeral.... ?the hair shave..... ?some collateral info, possibly coming from another source (AFL, Collingwood)..... last minute sponsor windiness (less likely IMO)

Why announced with such a strange and frankly unbelievable spin? THough in all fariness with the draft we have indeed loaded up with youngsters. Probably just that no-one e.g. NB or GW wanted to put their head above the parapet at this stage.

The Cousins decision is a healthy debate, however the lies and nonsense spoken by SrR about Gardiner are mystifiying.

The Planet Common Sense must be an odd place. A place where truth doesn't exist, and make believe dictates the history books.

[Devilhead]

Gardy by contrast pulled in his head and ego (and while naturally still a lair) and did all that the club asked....and importantly was appreciative to be given a second chance by the Saints.

the lies and nonsense spoken by SrR about Gardiner are mystifiying.

Hey Rodg ...Can't really say whether I know enough about Gardiner to say whether I agree or disagree with SrR's comments

So can you please clarify your side of the story with regards to Gardiner and why you think SrR is lying and why his comments are nonsensical and mystifying

Thanks mate ... much appreciated