Where is Nathan Burke?

[Richter]

This whole saga reeks of one thing from St Kilda.....

LACK OF LEADERSHIP

This is a major decision made by the board, now where are the leaders of the club to explain it?

Nick Riewoldt - seemed to make encouraging noises about wanting Cousins at the club last week. Why was he not at the board meeting? He's the club captain and our most important and best player. No blame being attached to ROo, but why is he not regarded as a central figure at the club when making decisions of this magnitude? It was HIS PICTURE on the press release/email sent to us re. this decision, yet how much input did he have? Is he really only the poster boy captain, or a man with real influence at the club?

Greg Westaway - the invisible man. I've been generally happy with his low profile as President. Keeping schtumm most of the time then lends a particular authority when you do say something. This is one of those occasions when he should open his mouth and give us his explanation of this decision.

Archie Fraser - actually did a reasonable job of fronting the media yesterday - i.e. sounded reasonable and balanced but gave us absolutely nothing. A good spinner. But he's the monkey grinder not the organ player.

Ross Lyon - for God's sake man did you want BC at the club or not? Tell us why, or why not? And why it has taken you so long to decide?

.......... and finally.......

NATHAN BURKE

You were all over the papers/internet/meetings last year heading up the Footy First ticket - now this is the first major decision you lot have had to make as a board, where the f** are you?

You were a courageous leader for us on the field, and showed that again last year in your well-needed board challenge...... but where are you on this?

This issue has left a lot of us who care primarily about St Kilda becoming a Premiership winning club stunned. Your voice on this would go a long way to healing the wound.

Burkey, we trust you and if you come out and tell us why you came to this decision, well, many of us may disagree but we'll accept it and move on.

IT'S TIME TO SPEAK NATHAN BURKE.

[SAMMYGILBERT#1]

HERE HERE!!! Great Call Richter.

[GrumpyOne]

This whole saga reeks of one thing from St Kilda.....

LACK OF LEADERSHIP

No it doesn't.

It takes more leadership to say no than to go with the flow of the herd.

Other Boards, Butterss et al, would have grabbed the opportunity and to hell with the consequences.

No way to run any sort of business.

[Richter]

No it doesn't.

It takes more leadership to say no than to go with the flow of the herd.

Other Boards, Butterss et al, would have grabbed the opportunity and to hell with the consequences.

No way to run any sort of business.

Rubbish Grumps, leadership is not just coming to the independent conclusion. I don't deny that is what we have done - a 5 month thorough investigation in fact is a storng argument in favour of your point.

What I don't like is the lack of accountability. The hiding behind this flimsy facade of "THE BOARD". The use of Nick Riewoldt's picture on the email to us informing us of the BOard's decision - but Nick Riewoldt was not even at the meeting. Hell, Nick's signature was on the email re the price hikes for LEvel 2 members - what's it got to do with him? He isn't at the board meetings.

Archie Fraser, the spinner is the poster boy for this board. That's wrong - Nathan Burke or Greg Westaway, so vocal 12 months ago should be out front telling us how it is. Especially Burkey.

[WayneJudson42]

Is this aimed at the current board, or the club generally??

I don't recall any accountability when we hired and Fired Blight... or when we appointed GT thru a sham process. or sacked him for that matter.

[skeptic]

I don't know how telling every1 everything = good leadership.

Personally, if BC decided that he'd rather go to Brisbane than the Saints, i'm actually kind of glad that they kept it in house

U sure al hell don't want to stich up the major sponsor and the reason we didn't get Ben either

Furthermore, if the club has decided that AF is the best guy suited to be doing media stuff, then i don't have an issue with Westaway and Burke staying behind the curtain

[GrumpyOne]

No it doesn't.

It takes more leadership to say no than to go with the flow of the herd.

Other Boards, Butterss et al, would have grabbed the opportunity and to hell with the consequences.

No way to run any sort of business.

Rubbish Grumps, leadership is not just coming to the independent conclusion. I don't deny that is what we have done - a 5 month thorough investigation in fact is a storng argument in favour of your point.

What I don't like is the lack of accountability. The hiding behind this flimsy facade of "THE BOARD". The use of Nick Riewoldt's picture on the email to us informing us of the BOard's decision - but Nick Riewoldt was not even at the meeting. Hell, Nick's signature was on the email re the price hikes for LEvel 2 members - what's it got to do with him? He isn't at the board meetings.

Archie Fraser, the spinner is the poster boy for this board. That's wrong - Nathan Burke or Greg Westaway, so vocal 12 months ago should be out front telling us how it is. Especially Burkey.

Its the way boards work Richter.

Use the club champion to deliver the bad news, engage a master spin doctor to provide the public face to the decisions, never disclose the possibility of a dissenting board member.

All textbook stuff.

Burkey filled the club champion role before Westaway was elected, only because Roo was not appropriate at the time. Same with Archie. Burkey's job is over now. Don't expect him to be playing any major role from now on.

[Richter]

Its the way boards work Richter.

Use the club champion to deliver the bad news, engage a master spin doctor to provide the public face to the decisions, never disclose the possibility of a dissenting board member.

All textbook stuff.

Burkey filled the club champion role before Westaway was elected, only because Roo was not appropriate at the time. Same with Archie. Burkey's job is over now. Don't expect him to be playing any major role from now on.

Don't agree. See yesterday's other big news (thank goodness I no longer have any RIO shares......) both BHP's CEO and chairman have come out and explained their major decision to walk away from taking over BHP. THese two are the best known leaders of BHP. And they will be judged by the shareholders for their actions.

Same with us as St Kilda - our leaders are (in this order)........

1. Nick Riewoldt

2. Ross Lyon

3. Greg Westaway

4. Archie Fraser

5. Nathan Burke

--------------------------------------

And of these Burkey is in the best position to heal the divide. He should do so asap.

[GrumpyOne]

Its the way boards work Richter.

Use the club champion to deliver the bad news, engage a master spin doctor to provide the public face to the decisions, never disclose the possibility of a dissenting board member.

All textbook stuff.

Burkey filled the club champion role before Westaway was elected, only because Roo was not appropriate at the time. Same with Archie. Burkey's job is over now. Don't expect him to be playing any major role from now on.

Don't agree. See yesterday's other big news (thank goodness I no longer have any RIO shares......) both BHP's CEO and chairman have come out and explained their major decision to walk away from taking over BHP. THese two are the best known leaders of BHP. And they will be judged by the shareholders for their actions.

Same with us as St Kilda - our leaders are (in this order)........

1. Nick Riewoldt

2. Ross Lyon

3. Greg Westaway

4. Archie Fraser

5. Nathan Burke

--------------------------------------

And of these Burkey is in the best position to heal the divide. He should do so asap.

I think your definition of leadership is very broad Rich.

Roo is captain. RL is coach. They are important to the playing group. Hell of a long bow to call them overall club leaders but.

[Richter]

I think your definition of leadership is very broad Rich.

Roo is captain. RL is coach. They are important to the playing group. Hell of a long bow to call them overall club leaders but.

Really? Like the captain of the country's cricket team I'd like to think that the captain and the coach have a wider leadership role than merely onfield leadership.

In any case we're led to believe that part of the reason not to pick up BC was a football one. So how about a member of the football leadership to explain that thinking?

Part of the reason I say that there is a lack of leadership is because of this diffusion of accountability. It's what the Soviet Bloc countries used to do - and we know how much accountability they had to those they led..... ZIP

[skeptic]

I don't mean to follow you around Richter

but what did you actually expect from the board???

They decided he was too big a risk for 1 or more of the following (most likely):

- Put sponsorship at risk
- Concerns about his rehab and character
- Concerns about his ability to reach his previous heights
- Salary cap issues
- Concerns RE the direction of our list (although this is pbly more likely to have come up to help justify the selection)

The board have made that decision and they've given the odd reason. Why do they then need to disclose everything to the public?

Who does that help?

Ben?

Us?

Their accountability is that they're accountable for the decision and they'll be judged on it based on what happens in the next 3 years

[Richter]

I don't mean to follow you around Richter

......and vice versa!

THe name of this board is FOOTY FIRST - to me that suggests that everything comes secondary to winning games of football. That's what I voted for last year and why I need more information.

I can barely see how not picking up a recent Brownlow medallist who is still only 30 years old and tore it up the last few times he played - just over a year ago now - fits with the philosophy of putting FOOTY FIRST.

Perhaps there are very good other reasons why this FOOTY FIRST mantra has been overridden but I am yet to hear them from the board. Or as to why there needs to be such secrecy attached to our deliberations.

[Mr Magic]

I don't mean to follow you around Richter

......and vice versa!

THe name of this board is FOOTY FIRST - to me that suggests that everything comes secondary to winning games of football. That's what I voted for last year and why I need more information.

I can barely see how not picking up a recent Brownlow medallist who is still only 30 years old and tore it up the last few times he played - just over a year ago now - fits with the philosophy of putting FOOTY FIRST.

Perhaps there are very good other reasons why this FOOTY FIRST mantra has been overridden but I am yet to hear them from the board. Or as to why there needs to be such secrecy attached to our deliberations.

Maybe, just maybe there are legitimate reasons that cannot be made public because of the possible threat of legal action?

Would you be happy if the Board told you their real reasoning anfd it resulted in a lawsuit?

Who knows what they've found out during the last 5 months and seemingly more importantly in the last 2 weeks?

It would seem that a surprizingly small number of posters, including myself, are prepared to accept that the Board had their reasons for voting the way they did on this issue.
AND for whatever the reason they don't seem to want to publicly air it.

[Richter]

Maybe, just maybe there are legitimate reasons that cannot be made public because of the possible threat of legal action?

Would you be happy if the Board told you their real reasoning anfd it resulted in a lawsuit?

Who knows what they've found out during the last 5 months and seemingly more importantly in the last 2 weeks?

It would seem that a surprizingly small number of posters, including myself, are prepared to accept that the Board had their reasons for voting the way they did on this issue.
AND for whatever the reason they don't seem to want to publicly air it.

Yes, that is possible Mr M. But, though I don't dislike Archie neither do I entirely trust him. If Nathan Burke comes out and says sorry but no cheese, but I'm not telling you any more you'll just have to trust me...... ok. Archie does not have that sort of clout in my eyes.

[bob__71]

Richter, Have you ever thought that maybe there are things that are not appropriate to say in public.

And another point....Ben has never played for StKilda...so why the hell is everyone moaning on as if he is a club champion...We will all get to see what his character is like now....wish him well....but I see a further fall from grace...followed by blaming the football community for not taking him back.

Hopefully oneday, Ben works out there is more to life than Ben.

[WayneJudson42]

Its the way boards work Richter.

Use the club champion to deliver the bad news, engage a master spin doctor to provide the public face to the decisions, never disclose the possibility of a dissenting board member.

All textbook stuff.

Burkey filled the club champion role before Westaway was elected, only because Roo was not appropriate at the time. Same with Archie. Burkey's job is over now. Don't expect him to be playing any major role from now on.

Don't agree. See yesterday's other big news (thank goodness I no longer have any RIO shares......) both BHP's CEO and chairman have come out and explained their major decision to walk away from taking over BHP. THese two are the best known leaders of BHP. And they will be judged by the shareholders for their actions.

Same with us as St Kilda - our leaders are (in this order)........

1. Nick Riewoldt

2. Ross Lyon

3. Greg Westaway

4. Archie Fraser

5. Nathan Burke

--------------------------------------

And of these Burkey is in the best position to heal the divide. He should do so asap.

RIO and BHP are accountable to share owners who have a vested financial interest in the company. Every word they spout has a direct influnece on the share price, as well as investors money. Big diffrence.

What divide? The fact that some supporters are sooking coz we didn't get BC? Yep let's tear the club apart of one player.

It's: Fortious Quo Fidelius...

Not: Fortious Quo Stupidity.

I'm still amazed that the pro BC camp still don't seem to allow that there may have been legit reasons for the decisions.

Yes, that is possible Mr M. But, though I don't dislike Archie neither do I entirely trust him. If Nathan Burke comes out and says sorry but no cheese, but I'm not telling you any more you'll just have to trust me...... ok. Archie does not have that sort of clout in my eyes.

So if it was Burke making the media release, then you'd accept it as Gospel? That doesn't make sense.

Not having a go... just questioning your logic.

[St DAC]

Surely there need be only one official spokesman, and Archie was it last night. I don't see what is gained for the club by giving chapter and verse of the decision; a no interest thanks is all that is needed.

If supporters, the public or the press want more than that then too bad. We had to make a call, and it was made. Move on.

[Richter]

So if it was Burke making the media release, then you'd accept it as Gospel? That doesn't make sense.

Not having a go... just questioning your logic.

I know when I'm being bullshitted even if some others on here don't. Last night's press release and Archie's spin was utter BS.

There may be a good reason why we can't know..... although it sounds like a cop-out reason for not even asking the question IMO.

If I'm going to be a fed a line, rather it be done by someone that I KNOW is a club legend. Archie isn't, he'll be gone as soon as the next bigger and better job comes along. Burkey will never leave us. If Burkey says tough, you have to trust us that we can know the reasons but you can't then fine, I'll whinge and have a sook, but I won't feel so dudded and ashamed of my club.

FQF is an argument to have a go at those buffoons who say that they will tear up their memberships.

Ok, so I'm a sook and am unhappy with the club's decision..... but bugger it all, all I'm doing is asking legitimate questions about why we didn't decide to pick up BC and why there seems to be no accountability for the decision made.

[Mr Magic]

Ok, so I'm a sook and am unhappy with the club's decision..... but bugger it all, all I'm doing is asking legitimate questions about why we didn't decide to pick up BC and why there seems to be no accountability for the decision made.

Sorry, it doesn't sound like that is all you're doing.
What's coming across to me, and obviously some others, is that you are demanding to know what possible reasons the Board didn't vote the way you want them to.

Stop and think about it. Did AF decide on his own to make the decision and announce it?
Of course not.

The Board made the decision and instructed AF to make the announcement. The Board including Westaway , Burke and whoever else was there instructed AF what they wanted publicly said.

So in effect, what you have been asking for was done, but not personally by Burkie.

[Richter]

Sorry, it doesn't sound like that is all you're doing.
What's coming across to me, and obviously some others, is that you are demanding to know what possible reasons the Board didn't vote the way you want them to.

Yes, I would like to know. What's wrong with that - we've debated it for months on here and it's been in the media for the same amount of time. The club think it's ok to deliberate for 5 months and then come up with a pathetic email that completely avoids the obvious questions and dismisses any further questioning out of hand. That's the style of Soviet politburos not democratically elected committees.

Stop and think about it. Did AF decide on his own to make the decision and announce it?
Of course not.

The Board made the decision and instructed AF to make the announcement. The Board including Westaway , Burke and whoever else was there instructed AF what they wanted publicly said.

So in effect, what you have been asking for was done, but not personally by Burkie.

I realise that, I guess I'm asking for a sweetener.... because for me it seems like the reason Westaway or Burkie aren't standing up is because they are too lily-livered to take responsibility for it. Archie Fraser comes way down the list for announcements like this......

.........clearly they chose him because he's the best spin-doctor at the club, but for mine it sends out a shocking message......

If the reasons are primarily football related then Burkie or Thommo should speak up to explain it.

If the reasons are primarily moral then Westaway or Burkie should speak up.

If the reasons are primarily legal than Gdanski or the other lawyer (?who) should speak.

The only time that AF should be the spokesperson is if it is primarily a COMMERCIAL decision. So this is what I am left wondering...... is a board that was elected calling itself FOOTY FIRST letting itself be dictated to by a bunch of American midwest glaziers?

[Con Gorozidis]

i always thought that the separation of the executive board and football decisions was absolute. like church and state. when did this change?

what the F*** has archie (ex hack brisbane striker socccer player in nsl days) go to do with recruitment decisions which should fit in the football departments domain?

what happened to footy first?


"not many choir boys win premierships" Allan Jeans - 4 time premiership coach

[WayneJudson42]

Accountability is one thing... Leadership is totally different altogether.

TRUE leadership is the ability to rise above populist sentiment, cut the emotion out of the equuation, weigh up the facts... and then have the COURAGE to make a final decision which you beleive is in the best interests of the tribe you lead.

Even if it is an unpopular one, and you'll cop sh1t for your efforts and work.

[ace]

[quote="Richter"]Greg Westaway[/u] - the invisible man. I've been generally happy with his low profile as President. Keeping schtumm most of the time then lends a particular authority when you do say something. [/quote]


Schtumm? I didn't realise Westaway was jewish, I thought he was only being quiet.

[Go Sainters Go]

Richter, just a couple of points for you to digest, and maybe respond intelligently -

If you were a member of the Board and you had read in the press that Cousins, prior to undergoing a well publicised hair test, shaved his head and body and had his body waxed. Would those actions by Cousins put doubt in your mind that maybe Cousins is trying to hide something and that, in fact, being a smartarse put grave doubt on his honesty.

Secondly, if you were a Board member and as is the Corporate way, you and your fellow Board Members employ a CEO to run the show as head honcho, wouldn't you require the CEO to make announcements at the direction of the Board. The CEO is the paid employee, the Board Members are not.

[jays]

i guess we should really stop talking about what if, cos its over now im not happy but im going to get over it and look forward to next year